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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 3, 2017 2:16:11 GMT
No, that isn't what is being argued here in this thread. What is being argued (at least my initial argument/question) was why do come people assume that the only problem with MEA was the animations/bugs and that if MEA launched in the 1.10 state, then it would have not been criticised. I laid out what is generally seen by many as non-animation/bug MEA problems and what happened was many people here countered my OP by trying to dismiss the list as subjective. So really, the thread was derailed by people defending MEA and bringing up the subjective/objective argument when that isn't what the OP is about. The OP is about animations/bugs being seen as the ONLY problem to MEA when in fact there were many other issues that many gamers had with MEA. Perhaps the thread was derailed because no one on the forums think that animations and glitches were the only issue and that a v1.10 launch would have zero criticisms. For sure that it would have had LESS criticism, but not none. If anyone does think that launch v1.10 would have had no criticisms, please speak now, for I have seen no evidence you exist. Even before the announcement of no DLC, there were many threads and many people asking the question along the lines of, "If MEA was launched today with 1.10 updates......" or something similar in nature. That type of question goes off the assumption that only if the game launched with no bugs and better animations, then somehow, the game would have been a better buy or something like that. Hell, remember during July when the new free trial was going on? Many people saw it as some type of relaunch and reintroduction of the game to new players. Their assumption was that these new players would be playing a better game than the March version because they are playing it free of meme worthy bugs/animations. While that is true to an extent, that belief yet again ignores that idea that there were MANY other things that MANY people saw wrong with MEA that weren't related to bugs and animations. Yes, you may not think that the story, narrative, open world, side quest, villain, or characters will bad/off, but MANY others did and in almost every review of the game, those items are brought up in a negative light. So I do not know what the percentages are, but people did have issues with those items and no matter how much patching Bioware did or how much SP DLC Bioware released, the core game remained the same and EA probably had internal numbers/surveys/data that showed that many owners were frustrated with many other components of MEA outside of bugs/animations which probably led to the decision to pull the plug on the game.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Sept 3, 2017 2:16:21 GMT
I do.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Sept 3, 2017 2:41:14 GMT
Perhaps the thread was derailed because no one on the forums think that animations and glitches were the only issue and that a v1.10 launch would have zero criticisms. For sure that it would have had LESS criticism, but not none. If anyone does think that launch v1.10 would have had no criticisms, please speak now, for I have seen no evidence you exist. Even before the announcement of no DLC, there were many threads and many people asking the question along the lines of, "If MEA was launched today with 1.10 updates......" or something similar in nature. That type of question goes off the assumption that only if the game launched with no bugs and better animations, then somehow, the game would have been a better buy or something like that. Hell, remember during July when the new free trial was going on? Many people saw it as some type of relaunch and reintroduction of the game to new players. Their assumption was that these new players would be playing a better game than the March version because they are playing it free of meme worthy bugs/animations. While that is true to an extent, that belief yet again ignores that idea that there were MANY other things that MANY people saw wrong with MEA that weren't related to bugs and animations. Yes, you may not think that the story, narrative, open world, side quest, villain, or characters will bad/off, but MANY others did and in almost every review of the game, those items are brought up in a negative light. So I do not know what the percentages are, but people did have issues with those items and no matter how much patching Bioware did or how much SP DLC Bioware released, the core game remained the same and EA probably had internal numbers/surveys/data that showed that many owners were frustrated with many other components of MEA outside of bugs/animations which probably led to the decision to pull the plug on the game. The two things you are saying aren't equal. You are saying that people thought there were no issues besides animations and glitches, and that people thought that if MEA launched at v1.10 that it wouldn't have been criticised about anything. Neither are true. No one ever said that the ONLY problems were glitches and animations, and no one ever said that if v1.10 launched that there would be no criticisms. The premise of the thread is wholly false. Everyone here who LOVES Andromeda has still been about to discuss it's faults, faults well beyond animations and glitches. And it is true that many days launching at v1.10 would have been tremendously better and that the free trial was likely a way to showcase the vast improvements over the launch version. But that doesn't mean that it's without faults. Or that it wouldn't have been criticised at that version. Only that the criticisms would have been less (and since animations, CC, and glitches were patched, you have to admit there would have been LESS criticism, because there has to be if some of the things criticised were removed/improved). So, anyway, in this case A does not equal B, basic OP is flawed.
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krighaur
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by krighaur on Sept 3, 2017 6:57:50 GMT
According to OP, MEA has many flaws. Take the first one he named, Bad story. People agree to say that in the old days, Bioware was able to create games with great stories. OK. I have just begun a new ME 1 game. What a great story ! - Humans find a Prothean beacon different from others - strange that no-one of the races in space since centuries were not able to do so before - Human Ambassador decides to fire a military captain and replaces him with his second ... strange, military captain are not usually choosen by diplomats - Asari councilor doesn't believe Shepard, in spite the Asari have a similar beacon in Thessia (Oops I forgot it's only in ME 3 that this beacon is accounted for) - Shepard begins to recruit her multiracial crew - nobody in the Alliance prevents her to populate a prototype military ship with alien, some of whom are dangerous mercenaries !!!! I stop there, this start shows that in the good old time stories had also some flaws ... I could do the same demonstration with ME 2 or ME 3 ..... and at the time these game were produced, people said the new one was the end of good-old Bioware, the difference maybe that e-medias were less strong and a mass Bioware bashing was not possible. NOTE 1 : I like ME 1 NOTE 2 : Old things are always better in our memory ... then I must be better than the majority here
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2017 7:43:12 GMT
- Asari councilor doesn't believe Shepard, in spite the Asari have a similar beacon in Thessia (Oops I forgot it's only in ME 3 that this beacon is accounted for) To be fair to this point, it always seemed to me that the asari councilor didn't know of the beacon on Thessia and it wasn't until ME3 when the Matriarchs who did know informed her about it and instructed her to tell Shepard.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 3, 2017 8:07:40 GMT
- Asari councilor doesn't believe Shepard, in spite the Asari have a similar beacon in Thessia (Oops I forgot it's only in ME 3 that this beacon is accounted for) Forget the beacon. She's an asari. She has the capacity to search Shepard's mind to discern the truth for herself, which is precisely what Liara does.
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Post by abaris on Sept 3, 2017 10:01:05 GMT
Game stories are never Pulitzer material. The question is not how well the same story would perform as a novel. It's how interesting is the interactive journey the game provides.
And there's a big difference between not only ME1 and MEA, but between all Bioware games I ever played. What the pathfinder does is not that interesting, repetitive, and, given that all the supposed inhabitable planets, have already been settled, borderline redundant. Hell, on some of the planets it isn't even necessary to push buttons in a vault to get the desired viability.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 3, 2017 17:52:03 GMT
- Asari councilor doesn't believe Shepard, in spite the Asari have a similar beacon in Thessia (Oops I forgot it's only in ME 3 that this beacon is accounted for) Forget the beacon. She's an asari. She has the capacity to search Shepard's mind to discern the truth for herself, which is precisely what Liara does. The councilors are a mess in other ways. They believe Tali's magic voice recording --- "magic" because it had to travel back in time to make the sequence work -- proves Saren's guilt, but they don't believe it about the Reapers. If I'd been assigned to clean up ME1's mess, I would have just played that the Citadel was inflicting low-level Indoctrination on the galaxy's leadership.
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Post by river82 on Sept 3, 2017 22:57:01 GMT
Game stories are never Pulitzer material. The question is not how well the same story would perform as a novel. It's how interesting is the interactive journey the game provides. And there's a big difference between not only ME1 and MEA, but between all Bioware games I ever played. What the pathfinder does is not that interesting, repetitive, and, given that all the supposed inhabitable planets, have already been settled, borderline redundant. Hell, on some of the planets it isn't even necessary to push buttons in a vault to get the desired viability. It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along.
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Post by abaris on Sept 3, 2017 23:07:09 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA.
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Post by suikoden on Sept 3, 2017 23:10:33 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. That's what happens when you put the "C" team in charge. You get a "C" game.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2017 0:25:32 GMT
Game stories are never Pulitzer material. The question is not how well the same story would perform as a novel. It's how interesting is the interactive journey the game provides. And there's a big difference between not only ME1 and MEA, but between all Bioware games I ever played. What the pathfinder does is not that interesting, repetitive, and, given that all the supposed inhabitable planets, have already been settled, borderline redundant. Hell, on some of the planets it isn't even necessary to push buttons in a vault to get the desired viability. It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. They were doing that. They've openly stated so.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 4, 2017 0:44:05 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. to be fair that's like comparing a fillet.mignon to a New York strip
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Post by themikefest on Sept 4, 2017 1:04:29 GMT
To be fair to this point, it always seemed to me that the asari councilor didn't know of the beacon on Thessia and it wasn't until ME3 when the Matriarchs who did know informed her about it and instructed her to tell Shepard. Can you post a link that she says the matriarchs instructed her to tell Shepard?
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 4, 2017 1:35:20 GMT
Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. to be fair that's like comparing a fillet.mignon to a New York strip Filet mignon is seriously overrated.
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Post by Qolx on Sept 4, 2017 2:57:47 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. That's why the game should have been scrapped the second someone suggested sending Mac Walters to save it. If they couldn't get the basics correctly just let it go and revisit it later.
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warrior
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I don't like MP!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by warrior on Sept 4, 2017 5:21:18 GMT
to be fair that's like comparing a fillet.mignon to a New York strip Filet mignon is seriously overrated. I'm a rib-eye girl myself.
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Arcian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Sept 4, 2017 8:46:31 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. The companions in DA:I is what saved the game for me. The main story didn't impress me at all.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 5, 2017 5:14:39 GMT
Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. The companions in DA:I is what saved the game for me. The main story didn't impress me at all. I think the main story's always been the weakest point. If not for the companions, I wouldn't have cared about the main story in any of these games. ME1 has a cool reveal, but it can take a while to get there if you bother to explore the bulk of the game's content, but that would kinda suck if you didn't have followers to chime in and "experience" it with your PC. The part I thought was easily the best in Origins was when your companions have to split in two groups with some coming with the Warden and the rest staying to fight at the gates of Denerim.
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Post by suikoden on Sept 5, 2017 5:31:52 GMT
Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. to be fair that's like comparing a fillet.mignon to a New York strip It'd be more like a Burger King Whopper vs the half of a Big Mac someone didn't finish and left on their tray in the kids play area. Neither are appealing... both edible though!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 5, 2017 12:22:10 GMT
It honestly felt like Bioware was making shit up as they went along. Let's be honest here. Bioware games live and breathe because of their companions. If they are dead on arrival, the whole game is wanting. I'm just replaying DAI for the uptenth time and I'm astonished by how much better the companions are written than they were in MEA. Another problem with MEA was that there wasnt any conflict between the companions. In KOTOR you had Carth vs Canderous, ME2 you had Tali v Legion and Miranda v Jack. DAO you had Alistair v Morrigan etc. In MEA everyone is all friends an doesnt challenge each other. This is why ME2 is considered not only the best ME game but one of Bioware's best games....it is soley about the companions. Even SWTOR does a better job than MEA with companions.
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Post by abaris on Sept 5, 2017 12:57:44 GMT
In MEA everyone is all friends an doesnt challenge each other. Everyone is challenging Liam, but not in a good way. It just further cements the image of Liam being a douche.
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Sept 5, 2017 13:00:50 GMT
In MEA everyone is all friends an doesnt challenge each other. Everyone is challenging Liam, but not in a good way. It just further cements the image of Liam being a douche. I don't really recall people challenging Liam, as much as talking about him behind his back in banter.
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Post by abaris on Sept 5, 2017 13:10:06 GMT
I don't really recall people challenging Liam, as much as talking about him behind his back in banter. It's mostly banter of the unfriendly sort if you happen to take Liam along. Which, given Liams nature, hardly anyone does, obviously.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 5, 2017 17:43:32 GMT
In MEA everyone is all friends an doesnt challenge each other. Everyone is challenging Liam, but not in a good way. It just further cements the image of Liam being a douche. Doesn't that make everyone else the douches?
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