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Post by brandoftime on Sept 2, 2017 15:37:06 GMT
Just finished DA3 for the third time, thinking about it post Trespasser got me wondering:
Would anyone want a huge game that takes you through the story by switching between the Inquisitor of DA3 (for obvious hanging plot story reasons) and a totally new character we get to design? Have two areas of Thedas. - Tevinter - new character, plus other parts of Thedas (Anderfels, Weisshaupt, Antiva, etc) for the Inquisotor to work behind the scenes until they meet somewhere in the center for the finale?
Plus they could finally settle what's going on with the Warden if they do something in Anderfels.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2017 16:55:21 GMT
Purely as a thought exercise, the idea of dual storylines is an interesting one. W3 ran with that idea pretty successfully I thought. The idea of dual protagonists is one that comes up pretty regularly here, though there's obviously a lot potential pitfalls as well. And while I wouldn't mind seeing BW explore that route in a game, honestly it's never really made my DA4 wishlist.
On that note, for those who may not have heard, BW has already said they're going with a new protoag with each new game, and one of the goals for Trespasser was to conclusively tie-off the Inquisitor's story. So, while it's an interesting idea to muse over, we know that's not the direction they're going in...
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 2, 2017 17:16:12 GMT
If their goal for Trespasser was to finish the Inquisitors story, they didn't do very well, imo.  I would love having dual protagonists. My Lavellan has unfinished business with the Dread Wolf. |
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Post by House Targaryen on Sept 2, 2017 17:36:45 GMT
Far from finishing the story in Trespasser, its left wide open especially if your Inky romanced Solas which makes it personal. But hey, I'm sure they can run it under the war table like they did with HoF.  |
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Post by roselavellan on Sept 2, 2017 20:17:07 GMT
Purely as a thought exercise, the idea of dual storylines is an interesting one. W3 ran with that idea pretty successfully I thought. I wonder about that too. I may differ from your opinion about TW3 though, in that I thought that having Geralt's story cut over to Ciri's story often broke the momentum for me and felt a little jarring, and that is what concerns me about having two ongoing storylines. By the end, though, I really appreciated playing Ciri, and wish we had had more of her and less of Geralt, so perhaps it was successful after all. Of course, having a dual storyline/protagonist approach is far, far preferable to having a new protagonist handle all aspects of the DA4 story. Also, how would a dual protagonist approach work with open world? Would one be able to switch to the Solas storyline at will? I think I would prefer that. |
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 2, 2017 20:21:59 GMT
I do not see it working for this sort of game because we, the player, create the PC. Unless we are creating two PC's with some sort of connection (like ME:A failed to do) it will not work.
It could, if they do it right. But as I said, ME:A had the chance and they blew it.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2017 20:29:40 GMT
Purely as a thought exercise, the idea of dual storylines is an interesting one. W3 ran with that idea pretty successfully I thought. I wonder about that too. I may differ from your opinion about TW3 though, in that I thought that having Geralt's story cut over to Ciri's story often broke the momentum for me and felt a little jarring, and that is what concerns me about having two ongoing storylines. By the end, though, I really appreciated playing Ciri, and wish we had had more of her and less of Geralt, so perhaps it was successful after all. Of course, having a dual storyline/protagonist approach is far, far preferable to having a new protagonist handle all aspects of the DA4 story. Also, how would a dual protagonist approach work with open world? Would one be able to switch to the Solas storyline at will? I think I would prefer that. If they went that route, my guess would be they'd switch after completing a major storyline quest (to pace/structure the overall narrative the way they want). You either settle everything down for the time being or you're left on a cliffhanger... then switch. |
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Post by roselavellan on Sept 2, 2017 20:35:46 GMT
If they went that route, my guess would be they'd switch after completing a major storyline quest (to pace/structure the overall narrative the way they want). You either settle everything down for the time being or you're left on a cliffhanger... then switch. So more like TW3 then. Fair enough, I suppose they'd want more control over the narrative than less. |
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 2, 2017 20:44:58 GMT
Purely as a thought exercise, the idea of dual storylines is an interesting one. W3 ran with that idea pretty successfully I thought. I wonder about that too. I may differ from your opinion about TW3 though, in that I thought that having Geralt's story cut over to Ciri's story often broke the momentum for me and felt a little jarring, and that is what concerns me about having two ongoing storylines. By the end, though, I really appreciated playing Ciri, and wish we had had more of her and less of Geralt, so perhaps it was successful after all. I loved Ciri's segments as well, even brief as they were.  What I wouldn't give to have Ciri as an optional protagonist in CP2077...  |
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Post by ellehaym on Sept 2, 2017 21:07:29 GMT
They did something like that in Andromeda where we briefly played as Ryder's siblings.
I would like it if they did the same for the Inquisitor if s/he makes an appearance in DA:4. I would especially like it if they makes us briefly play as Inquisitor (even if it doesn't involve combat) when we deal with the Solas
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 2, 2017 22:34:34 GMT
I can see it working like W3 with switching between the 2 characters as the story gets going. Say, the new character in DA4 starts off the whole shebang in Tevinter. We would play the story to the first part's crisis, then switch and catch up on the underground organization the Inquisitor has been operating (with Leliana's help ) for the past few years. Developments here would open up more for the other character to progress on that side, etc. Switching in the main story, but side quests, etc. all done at our convenience, depending on whether we are in the Inquisitor's part of the world, or the new character.
Trespasser makes me think they might be considering a really cool move: giving us a character that is 'disabled' and getting them past all that to make them better and stronger in spite of, or actually because of the lost hand.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2017 22:42:51 GMT
Trespasser makes me think they might be considering a really cool move: giving us a character that is 'disabled' and getting them past all that to make them better and stronger in spite of, or actually because of the lost hand. I would love if they did this. It could offer some great storytelling between dealing with the amputated limb and the prosthetic replacement. Seeing the conversation with Drack in MEA that touched upon this a bit really gave me confidence. Plus it gives the perfect excuse for the Inquisitor to be at Level 1 again since they have to learn everything from scratch. |
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Post by eskiya on Sept 2, 2017 22:45:56 GMT
Definitely do not support this idea. And the reasons includes taking time away from plot lines, losing momentum with the story, higher chance of losing interest in the game, resources being spread too thin in general, and a bunch of other reasons.
Personally, I can't follow things that constantly switch between POV, eventually I'll lose interest, or find that one character I can't stand. Even if they went the Assassin's Creed Syndicate where there are two together that you can switch between in the same story, resources would be spread too thin during development and you'll most likely never touch one of the characters unless forced to.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Sept 2, 2017 23:51:22 GMT
This would be my preferred set-up for DA4, yes. If it were up to me, we'd play as a new protagonist most of the time with two or three sections where we switch back to playing the Inquisitor.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 3, 2017 1:28:15 GMT
I'm open to the dual protagonist approach but I wouldn't be upset or surprised if that doesn't happen. The Inquisitor has to be involved to some degree. They may be an NPC or just even referenced but never seen. I'm always a bit uneasy when the protagonist leaves my control though, so I think that could make the dual route appealing.
I wasn't all that fond of the way TW3 handled it. We were really limited with Ciri and it sometimes felt jarring. With MEA (spoilers) I thought it was cool to get that brief stint with the sibling.
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Post by duskwanderer on Sept 3, 2017 1:33:07 GMT
I'm open to the dual protagonist approach but I wouldn't be upset or surprised if that doesn't happen. The Inquisitor has to be involved to some degree. They may be an NPC or just even referenced but never seen. I'm always a bit uneasy when the protagonist leaves my control though, so I think that could make the dual route appealing. I wasn't all that fond of the way TW3 handled it. We were really limited with Ciri and it sometimes felt jarring. With MEA (spoilers) I thought it was cool to get that brief stint with the sibling. One thing to keep in mind is that both Geralt and Ciri were established book characters. The player wasn't required to do any customization or such on either of their parts until you made choices in game. You might be able to get players to customize more than one race: Many of us played through all of the Origins (if not the whole game) in the first game. But it's too much to force. If there are more than one (say, for example, you can customize the human, elf, and dwarf the game could start with) it must be optional. |
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 3, 2017 3:20:06 GMT
If their goal for Trespasser was to finish the Inquisitors story, they didn't do very well, imo. I would love having dual protagonists. My Lavellan has unfinished business with the Dread Wolf. Well, Bioware established at least two reasons for the Inquisitor to no longer be the PC. Or at least, they established at least two reasons for the Inquisitor to think they can't be the PC anymore. The Inquisitor is down one hand, in a setting where that doesn't seem to be easy to undo, and one of the dialogue options during the Disband/Peacekeeping choices (I'm afraid I don't remember which one) indicates that they assume that's that for their fighting prowess. And they go along with Leiliana's idea that Solas knows their fighting style inconveniently well, and come up with the idea that maybe they should find someone else to handle this. Maybe those obstacles can be overcome, but it looks like Inky's not going to try. And I suppose I can see why not: stepping back solves both of them if Inky can find someone suitable to pass the torch to. So, it doesn't look like dual protagonists is happening. |
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 3, 2017 4:36:45 GMT
Lol the Inquisitor seems to be the new HoF. People just can't get over them.
Personally, I am very done with the Inquisitor. I disbanded my Inquisition. I got my arm chopped off. And I very clealt said "I will find someone Solas DOESN'T KNOW to track/hunt him down and stop him."
I'm thinking the people claiming the Inquisitor's story is not done are the ones who romanced Solas.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 3, 2017 5:16:23 GMT
On that note, for those who may not have heard, BW has already said they're going with a new protoag with each new game, and one of the goals for Trespasser was to conclusively tie-off the Inquisitor's story. So, while it's an interesting idea to muse over, we know that's not the direction they're going in... That's dumb because nothing is tied up unlike the previous protags. HOF ; done with the Blight and the Architect. Hawke closed off all three segments of her/ his story. Inq? Hello, DA devs, Solas. You can't throw a save or kill choice for the future at the end of Trespasser and shuffle the Inq off, exit stage left. Done and complete with. Nope. You didn't tie-off nicely. I'm fine with the Inq making cameos for important decisions regards Solas and a new protag taking center stage. If not, it's just poor story telling. |
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 3, 2017 7:08:13 GMT
On that note, for those who may not have heard, BW has already said they're going with a new protoag with each new game, and one of the goals for Trespasser was to conclusively tie-off the Inquisitor's story. So, while it's an interesting idea to muse over, we know that's not the direction they're going in... That's dumb because nothing is tied up unlike the previous protags. HOF ; done with the Blight and the Architect. Hawke closed off all three segments of her/ his story. Inq? Hello, DA devs, Solas. You can't throw a save or kill choice for the future at the end of Trespasser and shuffle the Inq off, exit stage left. Done and complete with. Nope. You didn't tie-off nicely. I'm fine with the Inq making cameos for important decisions regards Solas and a new protag taking center stage. If not, it's just poor story telling. I'm hoping the Inquisitor will at least cameo as an NPC in DA4. They have your Trespasser decision, your relationship with Solas, and whether you did his personal quest to help shape their actions. It's possible though they could have our Inky tied up dealing with events happening in the south, and can only provide guidance & support from afar. They might be removed from the playing field somehow (even if temporarily), and so on... Regardless though, I think it's worth noting that when making your Trespasser choice (Redeem/Kill), the choice " I'm going to redeem you" brings up the pop-up that says " The Inquisition will try to convince Solas to change his plan.", etc.. With that in mind, I could see if we have companions and/or close associates in DA4 having Inquisition ties (eg. Harding/Dorian/Charter/etc.), this decision could become their agenda in DA4. And they could possibly lean on whatever support the "Shadow Inquisition" could provide as well. This could also lead to some interesting conflicts in the game if your new protag doesn't happen to agree with that agenda. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2017 7:30:03 GMT
Lol the Inquisitor seems to be the new HoF. People just can't get over them. Personally, I am very done with the Inquisitor. I disbanded my Inquisition. I got my arm chopped off. And I very clealt said "I will find someone Solas DOESN'T KNOW to track/hunt him down and stop him." I'm thinking the people claiming the Inquisitor's story is not done are the ones who romanced Solas. I didn't romance Solas and personally hate his character but I think the Inquisitor's story is not done, so sorry but you are incorrect. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2017 7:32:33 GMT
That's dumb because nothing is tied up unlike the previous protags. HOF ; done with the Blight and the Architect. Hawke closed off all three segments of her/ his story. Inq? Hello, DA devs, Solas. You can't throw a save or kill choice for the future at the end of Trespasser and shuffle the Inq off, exit stage left. Done and complete with. Nope. You didn't tie-off nicely. I'm fine with the Inq making cameos for important decisions regards Solas and a new protag taking center stage. If not, it's just poor story telling. I'm hoping the Inquisitor will at least cameo as an NPC in DA4. They have your Trespasser decision, your relationship with Solas, and whether you did his personal quest to help shape their actions. It's possible though they could have our Inky tied up dealing with events happening in the south, and can only provide guidance & support from afar. They might be removed from the playing field somehow (even if temporarily), and so on... Regardless though, I think it's worth noting that when making your Trespasser choice (Redeem/Kill), the choice " I'm going to redeem you" brings up the pop-up that says " The Inquisition will try to convince Solas to change his plan.", etc.. With that in mind, I could see if we have companions and/or close associates in DA4 having Inquisition ties (eg. Harding/Dorian/Charter/etc.), this decision could become their agenda in DA4. And they could possibly lean on whatever support the "Shadow Inquisition" could provide as well. This could also lead to some interesting conflicts in the game if your new protag doesn't happen to agree with that agenda. Please no. Bioware has a terrible track record with handling former PCs turned NPCs. They completely ruined my Hawke and Revan, and I do not want to see my favorite Bioware protagonist suffer the same fate. |
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Post by naughtynomad on Sept 3, 2017 8:22:38 GMT
On that note, for those who may not have heard, BW has already said they're going with a new protoag with each new game, and one of the goals for Trespasser was to conclusively tie-off the Inquisitor's story. So, while it's an interesting idea to muse over, we know that's not the direction they're going in... That's dumb because nothing is tied up unlike the previous protags. HOF ; done with the Blight and the Architect. Hawke closed off all three segments of her/ his story. Inq? Hello, DA devs, Solas. You can't throw a save or kill choice for the future at the end of Trespasser and shuffle the Inq off, exit stage left. Done and complete with. Nope. You didn't tie-off nicely. I'm fine with the Inq making cameos for important decisions regards Solas and a new protag taking center stage. If not, it's just poor story telling. The Inquisitor's story was the Breach and Corypheus. Solas was just a side plot that was introduced to set up the next game. Trespasser made this abundantly clear. |
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Sept 3, 2017 9:35:04 GMT
That's dumb because nothing is tied up unlike the previous protags. HOF ; done with the Blight and the Architect. Hawke closed off all three segments of her/ his story. Inq? Hello, DA devs, Solas. You can't throw a save or kill choice for the future at the end of Trespasser and shuffle the Inq off, exit stage left. Done and complete with. Nope. You didn't tie-off nicely. I'm fine with the Inq making cameos for important decisions regards Solas and a new protag taking center stage. If not, it's just poor story telling. The Inquisitor's story was the Breach and Corypheus. Solas was just a side plot that was introduced to set up the next game. Trespasser made this abundantly clear. True, the main events for the Inq is done. Introducing another that does involve the Inq and not touching on it is bad. If the Inq is no friend of Solas, then if there comes a time / opportunity to kill / stop him, there's no need for the Inq. Unfortunately, the Inq is given three tracks; friend, foe, lover. The foe need not bother to appear, the next protag would do it. Not so with the other two; friend / lover. |
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Post by phoray on Sept 3, 2017 11:47:28 GMT
I was his friend. I remember being surprised he left, but accepting come the end of base game. Leliana was all like "let's look for him," and I was like, "nah, Solas is an adult." Then the glow eyes scene just made me confused but again, his business. Fast Forward to Trespasser. I remember when, bam, the Viddasala says I'd been working for Solas and that he was evil.
I felt conflicted and a bit of doubt. The game gave me a dialogue option and I may be off, but I remember picking, "whatever Solas is up to, he's our friend and we've gotta help."
Then we get to him and help is the last thing he needs. But he and Cole had been my only friends all base game. I couldn't be all like, "this changes everything and I shall kill you. " I picked redeem. I want to redeem my friend.
Maybe the fact that I could never redeem Anders was still affecting me. I played the whole DA Trilogy in the same month. He caused so much harm but his possession makes redemption impossible. I want to save Solas from himself.
Handing that off to a newbie who has no clue...and I'd RP them as best as I could as having no clue... Ugh. I mean, imagine the Dialogue. Solas would have no sympathy for a new protagonist, no connection. From his perspective, they aren't worth an explaination. So unless you go cliche villain and make him have a large exposition speech, Solas is far more likely to just quietly turn our new protagonist to stone and move along. Making a complex villain into a Mwuahahaha from the POV of the newbie. Like. Solas would just be ruined if he didn't have a scene where he says to inky, like Flemeth,
"I'm sorry" and then as my Inky watches him die of something or I am putting a blade into his chest, "I'm sorry too, old friend."
And people want to skip the epic-ness of THAT?!
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