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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 16:45:05 GMT
1. Where? My Inquisitors never said anything of the sort. 2. I'm tired of people who are against the Inquisitor returning using this as an arguing point to try to discredit the other side. I have never been in a romance with Solas and personally hate him and yet the Inquisitor still fits better than some new person. If Bioware was trying to close any possibility or loophole for the Inquisitor's return, then they did a piss poor job of it to the point where every single thing can be refuted. 1: At least one of the ending monologues where the Inquisitor decides whether they'll disband the Inquisition or merely reduce its size has them explicitly say "my adventuring days are over," probably in reference to the missing hand. Even if yours didn't (and I think at least one didn't) the post-credits scene has Leiliana say Solas knows the fighting style of anyone who was actually fighting in the main party inconveniently well, and the Inquisitor replies by explicitly saying that the solution is to find people Solas doesn't know. Like I said a few pages back: there's solutions to the missing hand and Solas knowing their styles other than Quizzy stepping back, but it's made clear that Quizzy is solving them by stepping back, and it's arguably a wise move since it provides one solution to two very serious problems. 2: This point I have to admit is fair enough. The Inquisitor in that situation you are referring to says their adventuring days may be over. The may is the key word in that sentence since it suggests uncertainty thus leaving it open. But yeah the Inquisitor in the other situation says explicitly that they'll be saving the world again. As for finding new people, that can refer to new companions since most if not all of the old will be unable to be anything more than a cameo or side character. However that doesn't prove the Inquisitor won't and there is evidence to suggest they will stay. No, it is not a wise move. To be honest I can't think of a more stupid move for Bioware to make. I'm glad you agree on that point, unlike some others. All that, and the fact that in Trespasser Solas is overwhelmingly more powerful than the endgame Inquisitor. We can't even take a swing at Solas, he subdues the Inquisitor and removes his hand just like that. Even if it's not a power imbalance, it is obvious Solas has power over Inquisitor. As for #2 I disagree. The romance with antagonist that is reserved for only 12% of potential protagonists strongly favours that specific 12% as more canon. Unless the new game gives as strong plot person open to romance for any protagonist, Solas romance will always favour F!Elf as canon in DA3, and any additional content in DA4 for F!Elf and Solas will reinforce it. And a lot of players want this path specifically for that reason, and indulging it without sidelining other protagonist choices is hard. Solas is more powerful than anyone. He can literally turn people to stone with a thought. That applies to everyone, which is why part of the next game is almost certainly going to be finding a way to strip him of his powers at least to a point he can be faced. As for Solas subduing the Inquisitor, that was because of the Mark which as you pointed out he removes so he no longer has power over the Inquisitor that he wouldn't over a new character. So despite people like me who have not romanced Solas, our arguments are made null and void simply because some people did? How is that fair? Also no it wouldn't make the Solas romance canon. Every Inquisitor has some relationship with Solas. Either he is seen as a friend or possibly love needing to be saved from himself to being seen as a monster who needs to be stopped and everything in between.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 16:50:24 GMT
What was not fair was that Solas romance was restricted to 12% of potential protagonists. Were it 100% available to any protagonist, I'd see no problems in terms of implying canon. As of now, the threat of canon is too strong.
I would prefer Inquisitor to not be much of anything in DA4.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 17:01:15 GMT
What was not fair was that Solas romance was restricted to 12% of potential protagonists. Were it 100% available to any protagonist, I'd see no problems in terms of implying canon. As of now, the threat of canon is too strong. I would prefer Inquisitor to not be much of anything in DA4. Wait, is this whole you not wanting the Inquisitor back just because you have a grudge about DAI not doing playersexuality? There is no threat to canon.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 17:03:40 GMT
Hmm... Wouldn't it not be a dual protagonist game then? More like one protagonist who has dreams/flashbacks that take up a significant chunk of time, which too might end up disrupting the game flow. I'm gonna have to do a no-no and bring up Witcher 3 again The way it was handled with Ciri's portion being playable added so much to the tension of looking for her, while allowing me to play as her and get an impression of her character that reading about in a codex would not have done as well. When you finally have the 2 together on that island, my god that's such a powerful scene and most of it's impact relies on the *one* facial expression Geralt makes when he finds her at last. The way they did this gives an idea of how BW could implement a 90/10 ratio with the new guy playable for most of the game. Narratively, a new gamer would get an idea of who this fabled Inquisitor person is, and it would add overall texture to the story as the two threads converge near the end. Of course, those of us in the series for the long haul (all 3 games) would be even more affected by it. I'm afraid I haven't played Witcher to judge the effectiveness, nor do I find it appropriate to convert one game into another when it already has a strong standing of its own, though I see what you mean since codex entry is less interesting than experience. Except, since we've already played as the Inquisitor we already have all the background and this wouldn't work for the older players. Also, how would you integrate all those various choices your Inq makes in a game with what your other character is doing? Unless you mean that in DA4 there would be a completely new two people and another story line.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 17:06:36 GMT
I'm gonna have to do a no-no and bring up Witcher 3 again The way it was handled with Ciri's portion being playable added so much to the tension of looking for her, while allowing me to play as her and get an impression of her character that reading about in a codex would not have done as well. When you finally have the 2 together on that island, my god that's such a powerful scene and most of it's impact relies on the *one* facial expression Geralt makes when he finds her at last. The way they did this gives an idea of how BW could implement a 90/10 ratio with the new guy playable for most of the game. Narratively, a new gamer would get an idea of who this fabled Inquisitor person is, and it would add overall texture to the story as the two threads converge near the end. Of course, those of us in the series for the long haul (all 3 games) would be even more affected by it. I'm afraid I haven't played Witcher to judge the effectiveness, nor do I find it appropriate to convert one game into another when it already has a strong standing of its own, though I see what you mean since codex entry is less interesting than experience. Except, since we've already played as the Inquisitor we already have all the background and this wouldn't work for the older players. Also, how would you integrate all those various choices your Inq makes in a game with what your other character is doing? Unless you mean that in DA4 there would be a completely new two people and another story line. To answer the integrating choices question, really most choices become inconsequential since the next game will be taking place up North in Tevinter while the previous games were in the South so at most there would need to be a few lines of dialogue referencing them. The choices that would impact this game would be few enough that it could be handled well and easily. Just use the Dragon Age Keep to integrate them all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 17:07:20 GMT
What was not fair was that Solas romance was restricted to 12% of potential protagonists. Were it 100% available to any protagonist, I'd see no problems in terms of implying canon. As of now, the threat of canon is too strong. I would prefer Inquisitor to not be much of anything in DA4. Because Solas is a straight man. There is no threat to canon. Wait, is this whole you not wanting the Inquisitor back just because you have a grudge about DAI not doing playersexuality? No, I do not like canon protagonists, or a strong implication of it. And, yes, the plot important romances in DAI not being player sexual contribute to it, most particularly after Solas was revealed as a main Antagonist of the whole game, and potentially for the next game. I really hope that the next game avoids such a premise, just like Origins and DA2 did.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 17:10:07 GMT
Because Solas is a straight man. There is no threat to canon. Wait, is this whole you not wanting the Inquisitor back just because you have a grudge about DAI not doing playersexuality? No, I do not like canon protagonists, or a strong implication of it. And, yes, the plot important romances in DAI not being player sexual contribute to it, most particularly after Solas was revealed as a main Antagonist of the whole game, and potentially for the next game. I really hope that the next game avoids such a premise, just like Origins and DA2 did. Well good because as I said there is no threat to canon or even an implication of it if the Inquisitor returns. Wow, what a petty vindictive person you are if you doing this is just to get back at other players just because you couldn't romance a character.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 17:19:19 GMT
No, I do not like canon protagonists, or a strong implication of it. And, yes, the plot important romances in DAI not being player sexual contribute to it, most particularly after Solas was revealed as a main Antagonist of the whole game, and potentially for the next game. I really hope that the next game avoids such a premise, just like Origins and DA2 did. Well good because as I said there is no threat to canon or even an implication of it if the Inquisitor returns. Wow, what a petty vindictive person you are if you doing this is just to get back at other players just because you couldn't romance a character. Not other players. I dislike it that this premise was used by BioWare as a descision they have made in the game. I think it was wrong, and I do not want them to perpetuate it. The players who romanced Solas can have conclusion without Inquisitor being carried over as a protagonist and the romance becoming an important subplot in DA4. If that happens I will feel the pressure to go and replay DA3 with a female elf romancing Solas and play that character in DA4, because it's now a unique situation, strongly favoured by the developer. And I do not like that possibility at all. I think it's unfair to favour one specific race/gender protagonist like that.
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Post by eskiya on Sept 8, 2017 18:18:25 GMT
Well good because as I said there is no threat to canon or even an implication of it if the Inquisitor returns. Wow, what a petty vindictive person you are if you doing this is just to get back at other players just because you couldn't romance a character. I'm not really part of your conversation here, but I've noticed that you're getting a bit defensive whenever anyone talks about not wanting Inky to return (other threads too). Maybe you should step back and let others say their opinions without getting angry about it. =\
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 18:32:26 GMT
Well good because as I said there is no threat to canon or even an implication of it if the Inquisitor returns. Wow, what a petty vindictive person you are if you doing this is just to get back at other players just because you couldn't romance a character. I'm not really part of your conversation here, but I've noticed that you're getting a bit defensive whenever anyone talks about not wanting Inky to return (other threads too). Maybe you should step back and let others say their opinions without getting angry about it. =\ I'm fine with people not wanting the Inquisitor to return if their reasons for it are valid. Jade Dreamer proved to not have valid reasons but instead merely some sort of vendetta against other players and DAI.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 18:46:18 GMT
I'm afraid I haven't played Witcher to judge the effectiveness, nor do I find it appropriate to convert one game into another when it already has a strong standing of its own, though I see what you mean since codex entry is less interesting than experience. Except, since we've already played as the Inquisitor we already have all the background and this wouldn't work for the older players. Also, how would you integrate all those various choices your Inq makes in a game with what your other character is doing? Unless you mean that in DA4 there would be a completely new two people and another story line. To answer the integrating choices question, really most choices become inconsequential since the next game will be taking place up North in Tevinter while the previous games were in the South so at most there would need to be a few lines of dialogue referencing them. The choices that would impact this game would be few enough that it could be handled well and easily. Just use the Dragon Age Keep to integrate them all. I wander if we'll have the Keep at all. It seems too much work to integrate and reference all those 'minor' choices for three games in a row put together. I think it would matter for example who was made the monarch Anora or Alistair to put it briefly into a codex entry or have some character mention in one line dialogue, but it won't really be big in history if you've returned the sword to Sten. Maybe it would have a simplified version of the Keep?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 18:49:51 GMT
To answer the integrating choices question, really most choices become inconsequential since the next game will be taking place up North in Tevinter while the previous games were in the South so at most there would need to be a few lines of dialogue referencing them. The choices that would impact this game would be few enough that it could be handled well and easily. Just use the Dragon Age Keep to integrate them all. I wander if we'll have the Keep at all. It seems too much work to integrate and reference all those 'minor' choices for three games in a row put together. I think it would matter for example who was made the monarch Anora or Alistair to put it briefly into a codex entry or have some character mention in one line dialogue, but it won't really be big in history if you've returned the sword to Sten. Maybe it would have a simplified version of the Keep? I'm sure we'll still have the Keep. And it's not like DA4 has to integrate all the choices that are stored on the Keep. DAI didn't integrate all the DAO and DA2 choices on it after all, only those that had relevance. The Keep just likes to keep all the choices stored so they are there in case they are needed, then the game only takes the ones that are needed in some way. As for returning the sword to Sten, considering he is the Arishok now and the Tevinter-Qun conflict seems to be one of the major plots I can see that one having relevance at least like a few lines of dialogue change.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 19:00:31 GMT
I wander if we'll have the Keep at all. It seems too much work to integrate and reference all those 'minor' choices for three games in a row put together. I think it would matter for example who was made the monarch Anora or Alistair to put it briefly into a codex entry or have some character mention in one line dialogue, but it won't really be big in history if you've returned the sword to Sten. Maybe it would have a simplified version of the Keep? I'm sure we'll still have the Keep. And it's not like DA4 has to integrate all the choices that are stored on the Keep. DAI didn't integrate all the DAO and DA2 choices on it after all, only those that had relevance. The Keep just likes to keep all the choices stored so they are there in case they are needed, then the game only takes the ones that are needed in some way. As for returning the sword to Sten, considering he is the Arishok now and the Tevinter-Qun conflict seems to be one of the major plots I can see that one having relevance at least like a few lines of dialogue change. I've just finished act 1 in DA2, and only getting one foot into this conflict, so I wander, does it change his attitude and Quinari policy towards humans depending on the terms he had parted on with the Warden? I imagine he might have some dialogue line whether he might marginally comment on whether he found any person of worth during Ferelden travels, but would it change his behaviour or make it easier for Hawke.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 8, 2017 19:12:05 GMT
I'm sure we'll still have the Keep. And it's not like DA4 has to integrate all the choices that are stored on the Keep. DAI didn't integrate all the DAO and DA2 choices on it after all, only those that had relevance. The Keep just likes to keep all the choices stored so they are there in case they are needed, then the game only takes the ones that are needed in some way. As for returning the sword to Sten, considering he is the Arishok now and the Tevinter-Qun conflict seems to be one of the major plots I can see that one having relevance at least like a few lines of dialogue change. I've just finished act 1 in DA2, and only getting one foot into this conflict, so I wander, does it change his attitude and Quinari policy towards humans depending on the terms he had parted on with the Warden? I imagine he might have some dialogue line whether he might marginally comment on whether he found any person of worth during Ferelden travels, but would it change his behaviour or make it easier for Hawke. That's the previous Arishok. Sten becomes Arishok after him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 19:19:55 GMT
I've just finished act 1 in DA2, and only getting one foot into this conflict, so I wander, does it change his attitude and Quinari policy towards humans depending on the terms he had parted on with the Warden? I imagine he might have some dialogue line whether he might marginally comment on whether he found any person of worth during Ferelden travels, but would it change his behaviour or make it easier for Hawke. That's the previous Arishok. Sten becomes Arishok after him. Ah that is COOOL! XD I always want my Origins characters to become someone great and I'm glad Sten isn't a villain after all. This did get me thinking (to my spoilers doooom since I'm only starting DA2 and Inq) how this topic deserves a separate thread.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 19:24:05 GMT
That's the previous Arishok. Sten becomes Arishok after him. Ah that is COOOL! XD I always want my Origins characters to become someone great and I'm glad Sten isn't a villain after all. This did get me thinking (to my spoilers doooom since I'm only starting DA2 and Inq) how this topic deserves a separate thread. You probably would want to finish the DA2 and Inquisition though beforehand, because they do have a lot of lore around Qun.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 9, 2017 3:14:38 GMT
In regards to The Witcher 3 being used as an example of a way to do dual protagonists in an rpg, allow me to retort.
The Witcher 3 is a great game. I don't think it is hyperbole to describe it as one of the bet RPGs of all time. And out of the gaems that have used dual protagonists to great effect, it is to my knowledge the closest to a Bioware-style rpg that exists. But there are various key differences that separate it from Bioware's formula that I think lessen the applicability of using it as an example or blueprint for how to do dual protagonists in Dragon Age.
Big thing is that both playable protagonists are prexisting set characters with defined personalities and a prexisting relationship - the relationship being that of an adoptive parent and child - to base their interactions and motivations around. Yes, Ciri hadn't been shown in the previous games but she was a major character in the novels the games are based on and act as an AU sequel to so they had that preexisting history to go on. They have defined backgrounds and histories and defined abilities and playstyles. You can cutomize Geralt's appearance slightly - styling his hair and beard - and have some freedom in customizing his playstyle, but that's fairly minimal and there's little to no overlap between him and Ciri, who's abilitie are set in stone. You can select branching dialogue options for both of them during their playable sections but these are mostly either/or options compared to the 3-4 that Bioware usually gives you. Their individual nemeses' - Geralt vs the Wild Hunt and Ciri vs the White Cold - are deeply intwined storylines, but the primary emotional arc of the game isn't about these two vs their adversaries, but between each other; can Geralt be a good enough father to Ciri to prepare her for her destiny or will his protective instincts ultimately hold her back?
This is obviously a very different scenario from the Inquisitor being playable alongside a wholly new protagonist. The core conflict would, according to the pro-inquisitor crowd, be between the Inquisitor and the Antagonist, Solas, thus making the new protagonist extraneous to that. The inquisitor's past is too varied and detached to make creating a new character out of whole cloth who has a preexisting relationship with them to be anything but a monumental effort on the part of the designers, and for it to be compelling from a narrative perspective. The only way that works is if the second "protagonist" is one of the Inquisitor's party members.
Alternatively the dynamic between the two characters could be based on their conflicting, competing ideas on how to deal with Solas - one being in favor of redemption vs the other wanting to kill them. But the issue there is that the Inquisitor gets an option on how they want to deal with Solas; if the new character's decision is determined by automatically being the opposite of that, that takes away agency from us and will feel artificial. I also don't know how you get a new character without the Inquisitor's pre-existing relationship with Solas to be in favor of redeeming him from the get-go. And again, if they both agree on how to do it, then from a narrative stand point they're superfluous as main characters.
You also have the issue that in the Witcher, it is the returning protagonist that carries the bulk of the game. That works because we're being introduced to the new character through the lens of the returning character's relationship with her. Which as we've established, we can't really have here either way.
Then from a technical standpoint, they're completely different ballparks. Geralt has one set voice actor. Ciri has one set voice actress. Geralt has one model with minimal customizable parts. Ciri has one model with one alternate outfit. The inquisitor, at the very least, will have four potential voice actors and eight different models they have to work with. A new protagonist would have at least two of each. All significantly more customized and variable than Geralt & Ciri's. The Witcher is also a game built and balanced around solo character combat where as Dragon Age has always been built around party-based combat. Geralt's abilities are set even if you can customize his playstyle, and Ciri's abilities are locked down. A Dual Protagonist DA4 would have to account for two protagonist that could be any combination of three different classes with significantly more variables than The Witcher had to content with.
Also, Geralt and Ciri's set personalities also means that when Geralt finally catches up to Ciri, she is demoted from playable character to NPC and her dialogue goes from being under our control to predetermined as we interact with her through Geralt. We've seen how well Bioware handles that set up with Hawke's cameo in DAI.
So we have a situation where we have two characters when we cannot base the core emotional conflict of the game around their relationship with each other, and trying to make the core emotional conflict about their relationships with the Antagonist is complicated by having that relationship be to some extent, determined by us, the player, thus potentially rendering either of the characters redundant. And on top of that a laundry list of technical reasons why it's unfeasible.
Yes, CD Project pulled it off with Witcher 3, but there are a multitude of distinctions between the kind of game they made and the kind of game Bioware makes. The formula that they used to succeed isn't doable with the tools Boiware has at their disposal, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 8:57:33 GMT
dual protagonist it's a very complex thing to do, and seems people only want that for the inquisitor, nah, like they said with the HoF it would only be a waste of time and resources, better to just stay true to they word for once, new protagonist per each new game, and move on, and if you don't like it, deal with it.
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 9, 2017 15:09:53 GMT
The conflict between dual protagonist can be handled mostly by the Keep, decisions made there. My Hawke behaved pretty well to form in DAI, they even let you interact with them and ask questions, filling in some blanks. At the very least they can do this much for the Inquisitor without reinventing the wheel.
In Mass Effect Andromeda, they teased a concept of having your sibling become active when the player character is injured. This is almost dual protagonist, and was one of my favorite moments in the game, to be honest. After the sibling was asleep for 99 percent of the game, to be able to play them in rescuing the other one was a cool idea, one I wished had showed up more.
Instead of a NPC follower like Hawke in Inquisition, make a large running side quest threaded through DA4 that would tie in with the main story featuring the Inquisitor. Roughly 10 percent of the game, to make it worth the extra resources. Newcomers would get nifty extra story featuring a character they can just make however they want, and those of us who do want our character to have resolution can get it.
They did tease us the slides, you know. The picture of the Inquisitor with the prosthetic arm crossbow thing . . . their adventuring days may not be over after all . . .
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 9, 2017 15:36:51 GMT
In regards to The Witcher 3 being used as an example of a way to do dual protagonists in an rpg, allow me to retort. The Witcher 3 is a great game. I don't think it is hyperbole to describe it as one of the bet RPGs of all time. And out of the gaems that have used dual protagonists to great effect, it is to my knowledge the closest to a Bioware-style rpg that exists. But there are various key differences that separate it from Bioware's formula that I think lessen the applicability of using it as an example or blueprint for how to do dual protagonists in Dragon Age. Big thing is that both playable protagonists are prexisting set characters with defined personalities and a prexisting relationship - the relationship being that of an adoptive parent and child - to base their interactions and motivations around. Yes, Ciri hadn't been shown in the previous games but she was a major character in the novels the games are based on and act as an AU sequel to so they had that preexisting history to go on. They have defined backgrounds and histories and defined abilities and playstyles. You can cutomize Geralt's appearance slightly - styling his hair and beard - and have some freedom in customizing his playstyle, but that's fairly minimal and there's little to no overlap between him and Ciri, who's abilitie are set in stone. You can select branching dialogue options for both of them during their playable sections but these are mostly either/or options compared to the 3-4 that Bioware usually gives you. Their individual nemeses' - Geralt vs the Wild Hunt and Ciri vs the White Cold - are deeply intwined storylines, but the primary emotional arc of the game isn't about these two vs their adversaries, but between each other; can Geralt be a good enough father to Ciri to prepare her for her destiny or will his protective instincts ultimately hold her back? This is obviously a very different scenario from the Inquisitor being playable alongside a wholly new protagonist. The core conflict would, according to the pro-inquisitor crowd, be between the Inquisitor and the Antagonist, Solas, thus making the new protagonist extraneous to that. The inquisitor's past is too varied and detached to make creating a new character out of whole cloth who has a preexisting relationship with them to be anything but a monumental effort on the part of the designers, and for it to be compelling from a narrative perspective. The only way that works is if the second "protagonist" is one of the Inquisitor's party members. Alternatively the dynamic between the two characters could be based on their conflicting, competing ideas on how to deal with Solas - one being in favor of redemption vs the other wanting to kill them. But the issue there is that the Inquisitor gets an option on how they want to deal with Solas; if the new character's decision is determined by automatically being the opposite of that, that takes away agency from us and will feel artificial. I also don't know how you get a new character without the Inquisitor's pre-existing relationship with Solas to be in favor of redeeming him from the get-go. And again, if they both agree on how to do it, then from a narrative stand point they're superfluous as main characters. You also have the issue that in the Witcher, it is the returning protagonist that carries the bulk of the game. That works because we're being introduced to the new character through the lens of the returning character's relationship with her. Which as we've established, we can't really have here either way. Then from a technical standpoint, they're completely different ballparks. Geralt has one set voice actor. Ciri has one set voice actress. Geralt has one model with minimal customizable parts. Ciri has one model with one alternate outfit. The inquisitor, at the very least, will have four potential voice actors and eight different models they have to work with. A new protagonist would have at least two of each. All significantly more customized and variable than Geralt & Ciri's. The Witcher is also a game built and balanced around solo character combat where as Dragon Age has always been built around party-based combat. Geralt's abilities are set even if you can customize his playstyle, and Ciri's abilities are locked down. A Dual Protagonist DA4 would have to account for two protagonist that could be any combination of three different classes with significantly more variables than The Witcher had to content with. Also, Geralt and Ciri's set personalities also means that when Geralt finally catches up to Ciri, she is demoted from playable character to NPC and her dialogue goes from being under our control to predetermined as we interact with her through Geralt. We've seen how well Bioware handles that set up with Hawke's cameo in DAI. So we have a situation where we have two characters when we cannot base the core emotional conflict of the game around their relationship with each other, and trying to make the core emotional conflict about their relationships with the Antagonist is complicated by having that relationship be to some extent, determined by us, the player, thus potentially rendering either of the characters redundant. And on top of that a laundry list of technical reasons why it's unfeasible. Yes, CD Project pulled it off with Witcher 3, but there are a multitude of distinctions between the kind of game they made and the kind of game Bioware makes. The formula that they used to succeed isn't doable with the tools Boiware has at their disposal, in my opinion. My ideal DA4 dual protagonist scenario would be thus:
1. Prologue tutorial starts with the new protagonist as a high ranking slave of the Archon* quickly forced by circumstance into selfless heroism or ruthless pragmatism. The Archon tasks you getting to the bottom of this new catastrophe, lest it divert too many resources away from the Qunari conflict. Should you succeed, Radonis promises to make you a free and influential citizen. You can jump at the chance, be weary but agree since it's your best option, or attack. Picking the latter reveals that the Archon had blood magic hypnotic safeguards implanted in you to prevent this, and that if you won't cooperate he'll simply find someone who will. Waste not, want not .
2. After the tutorial, cut to the Inquisitor establishing their agents in Tevinter. The player will control Inky in short missions at the end of arcs.
3. Mid-point in the game New Guy is approached by an Inquisition Agent (Dagna, Harding, someone new) as a possible Companion. This Agent will reflect the Inquisitor's stance on whether to save or kill Solas. Inky and New Guy will be able to correspond through letters, developing a positive or negative relationship.
4. Near the end battle, if New Guy has consistently opposed the Inquisitor's Solace stance, there would be a boss battle where the player must choose which character to play from there on. If both player characters agreed, Solas would summon demons to separate them and the player picks their main for the final battle. Picking the Inquisitor finishes their story (for real this time ), while picking New Guy allows them to continue playing. Yes, the whole thing needs work, but I've got other things to do .
*The whole "slave of the Archon" thing would allow for at least one Origin, and give the new protagonist their own identity apart from being the Inquisitor's sidekick. Plus, after being a world leader in Inquisition, I would like to have to move in the shadows more in 4.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 15:44:08 GMT
3. Mid-point in the game New Guy is approached by an Inquisition Agent (Dagna, Harding, someone new) as a possible Companion. This Agent will reflect the Inquisitor's stance on whether to save or kill Solas. Inky and New Guy will be able to correspond through letters, developing a positive or negative relationship. This brings up a good point. An argument against the dual protagonist concept is the whole "how would the two interact" which is a valid concern but they could have it where the two never actually interact, at least not directly. They could use middle people to communicate. For example Dorian has that magic crystal that lets him talk to the Inquisitor. What if while playing as the Inquisitor we talk to Dorian and then it transitions to Dorian relaying the message to the new PC and likewise the new PC can do this to Dorian then transition to Dorian relaying the message to the Inquisitor.
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 9, 2017 15:57:36 GMT
Walter Black's idea is one way to handle it, and sounds fun to play!
Others have pointed out that the Inquisitor's story was over after Cory battle and end scene in the great hall at Skyhold. I agree, and if they had left it there, great. I would have felt it was completely done. It's Trespasser that made it a bit more murky. The last scene after the credits in the dungeon with the Inquisitor vowing to save(or stop) Solas. The inner circle includes Harding, Cassandra, Leliana and whoever the LI may have been. This implies strongly that most of the companions and the Inquisitor will play some role in the next game.
The real question is whether the role is playable, and if the Inquisitor is the one to handle the Solas part of the story.
A newcomer to the series would get a really cool option to play as 2 characters, and if this was handled well, they wouldn't need to have played DAI at all to enjoy the intertwined storylines here.
Also, as Walter Black points out: you never need to have the two interact at all, but can have intermediaries.
Ultimately, what it seems to come out to: if you didn't like DAI much, you want to move on. I get that.
If you have played DAI and loved it, chances are you would like the story of the Inquisitor to be carried out as implied with the ending in Trespasser. The teased image of the prosthetic arm, plus the choice given in game to either save or stop Solas. Why give us any choice, if they will just write out the character and move on. No, these few tidbits seem to tell us that Bioware is intending to allow us to use the Inquisitor in some way in DA4.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 9, 2017 16:22:24 GMT
I liked DAI plenty at the time though less upon reflection, admittedly.
But I adamantly and absolutely refuse to play another game with the Inquisitor as a playable protagonist in any capacity. If Bioware goes in that direction then I'll sit out however many games it takes them to get it out of their system.
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Post by Frost on Sept 9, 2017 17:18:40 GMT
I haven't played W3, but I have played a number of adventure games with dual protagonists (such as Dreamfall Chapters and Tales from the Borderlands), and I thought it worked well in those games. Having customizable pcs is more work, sure, but that is the case in Bioware rpgs anyways. I think it could work in DA4 if that is what they wanted to do.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 9, 2017 17:25:34 GMT
I haven't played W3, but I have played a number of adventure games with dual protagonists (such as Dreamfall Chapters and Tales from the Borderlands), and I thought it worked well in those games. Having customizable pcs is more work, sure, but that is the case in Bioware rpgs anyways. I think it could work in DA4 if that is what they wanted to do. Yeah, the dual protagonist system has been proven in multiple genres from strategy to FPS to adventure to RPGs. Bioware just has to figure out how to do it with their level of customization.
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