formerfiend
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 10, 2017 0:16:20 GMT
Giving the protagonist intertwined but unconnected stories solves the problem of how the two characters interact directly with each other but it doesn't solve the other problems.
Walter Black's build essentially tacks the Inquisitor on to the new character's story for no reason other than giving the player an option to have the Inquisitor confront Solas. I understand that it's a rough draft, concept phase idea, but that's still what it does. If you go with the Inquisitor in the end then the bulk of the game was faffing about with a character who ultimately did't matter and if you go with the new guy then the Inquisitor's sections are pointless.
And it doesn't solve the technical issues of more models to animate, more voice files to put in the game, more npcs to put in the game. He cuts down on the Inquisitor's screen time but still the sheer amount of variables the Iquisitor has represents a significant chunk of resources.
Could Bioware work out a way to make the dual protagonist set up work for their formula? Sure. If Hawke was still the playable character and the new character was race locked and had only one pair of voice actors attached to them, the yeah, they could probably work with that. I don't believe they can make it work in a way I would consider satisfactory specifically coming off of DA4.
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Post by Walter Black on Sept 10, 2017 0:22:52 GMT
I haven't played W3, but I have played a number of adventure games with dual protagonists (such as Dreamfall Chapters and Tales from the Borderlands), and I thought it worked well in those games. Having customizable pcs is more work, sure, but that is the case in Bioware rpgs anyways. I think it could work in DA4 if that is what they wanted to do. Yeah, the dual protagonist system has been proven in multiple genres from strategy to FPS to adventure to RPGs. Bioware just has to figure out how to do it with their level of customization. It wouldn't be my first choice, but if Bioware had to streamline the protagonists, one way would be to give the new hero the same voice actors, but inverted; Alix Wilton Regan and Harry Hadden-Paton could do the American (or should it be Canadian  ?) voices, while Sumalee Montano and Jon Curry do the British ones.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 0:25:28 GMT
Yeah, the dual protagonist system has been proven in multiple genres from strategy to FPS to adventure to RPGs. Bioware just has to figure out how to do it with their level of customization. It wouldn't be my first choice, but if Bioware had to streamline the protagonists, one way would be to give the new hero the same voice actors, but inverted; Alix Wilton Regan and Harry Hadden-Paton could do the American (or should it be Canadian8D ?) voices, while Sumalee Montano and Jon Curry do the British ones.
I suppose they could do that though I'd prefer new VAs for the new character. As for accents, it would also depend where the new PC is from. |
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 10, 2017 1:47:08 GMT
Giving the protagonist intertwined but unconnected stories solves the problem of how the two characters interact directly with each other but it doesn't solve the other problems. Walter Black's build essentially tacks the Inquisitor on to the new character's story for no reason other than giving the player an option to have the Inquisitor confront Solas. I understand that it's a rough draft, concept phase idea, but that's still what it does. If you go with the Inquisitor in the end then the bulk of the game was faffing about with a character who ultimately did't matter and if you go with the new guy then the Inquisitor's sections are pointless. And it doesn't solve the technical issues of more models to animate, more voice files to put in the game, more npcs to put in the game. He cuts down on the Inquisitor's screen time but still the sheer amount of variables the Iquisitor has represents a significant chunk of resources. Could Bioware work out a way to make the dual protagonist set up work for their formula? Sure. If Hawke was still the playable character and the new character was race locked and had only one pair of voice actors attached to them, the yeah, they could probably work with that. I don't believe they can make it work in a way I would consider satisfactory specifically coming off of DA4. I said this before, but this my biggest reason why I think bringing back the Inquisitor and having dual protagonists is a waste of time and resources. It only serves one purpose. Having the Inquisitor confront Solas. That's it as far as I can tell, and to me that just reaffirmes how limited and boring of a protagnist the Inquistor was. I mean, for the Maker's sake, people only want them back because of Solas not because they themselves were an interesting character to play as. I don't know about y'all but I'm willing to roll the dice on a new, and hopefully more grounded, protagonist than have the Inquisitor back. A cameo could be fine but besides that I'm skeptical of the value of having them as playable. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 1:58:20 GMT
Giving the protagonist intertwined but unconnected stories solves the problem of how the two characters interact directly with each other but it doesn't solve the other problems. Walter Black's build essentially tacks the Inquisitor on to the new character's story for no reason other than giving the player an option to have the Inquisitor confront Solas. I understand that it's a rough draft, concept phase idea, but that's still what it does. If you go with the Inquisitor in the end then the bulk of the game was faffing about with a character who ultimately did't matter and if you go with the new guy then the Inquisitor's sections are pointless. And it doesn't solve the technical issues of more models to animate, more voice files to put in the game, more npcs to put in the game. He cuts down on the Inquisitor's screen time but still the sheer amount of variables the Iquisitor has represents a significant chunk of resources. Could Bioware work out a way to make the dual protagonist set up work for their formula? Sure. If Hawke was still the playable character and the new character was race locked and had only one pair of voice actors attached to them, the yeah, they could probably work with that. I don't believe they can make it work in a way I would consider satisfactory specifically coming off of DA4. I said this before, but this my biggest reason why I think bringing back the Inquisitor and having dual protagonists is a waste of time and resources. It only serves one purpose. Having the Inquisitor confront Solas. That's it as far as I can tell, and to me that just reaffirmes how limited and boring of a protagnist the Inquistor was. I mean, for the Maker's sake, people only want them back because of Solas not because they themselves were an interesting character to play as. I don't know about y'all but I'm willing to roll the dice on a new, and hopefully more grounded, protagonist than have the Inquisitor back. A cameo could be fine but besides that I'm skeptical of the value of having them as playable. I want the Inquisitor back because of them. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist. The whole potential that exists with them and the Solas storyline is good yes, but that's not the only reason I want them back. Please no cameo. I don't want them to ruin the Inquisitor like they ruined Revan and Hawke. |
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 10, 2017 2:12:15 GMT
I'm not sure if others had this experience, but I find all my custom characters personality is similar enough that making a new one in DA4 isn't as important to me as getting the story from DAI finished completely. Chances are I'd just roll another similar character, maybe change the race or whatnot, but I find I keep going with choices in line with paragade Shepard.
How different a character do you want to make in DA4? More like sarcastic Hawke vs Kind Hawke? I guess they won't let us go totally evil in the story . . .
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 10, 2017 2:16:05 GMT
@hanako Ikezawa
1. Why is the Inquistor your favorite?
2. Fair enough. We could just have them send a letter like the Warden in Inquisition.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 10, 2017 2:26:31 GMT
How different a character do you want to make in DA4? More like sarcastic Hawke vs Kind Hawke? I guess they won't let us go totally evil in the story . . . I know were not going to have Origins back, but what I hope for is just having a more grounded character, at least for the beginning of the game. I don't care if we have kind, evil or sarcastic options. They'd be nice of course, but I really want is my protagonist to be deeply emotional and for the VA to capture that. The one moment I really fault for my Inquisitor is in Trespasser when they get the opportunity to angrily monologue and curse about how the fucking world won't stay fixed. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 10, 2017 2:48:20 GMT
@hanako Ikezawa 1. Why is the Inquistor your favorite? 2. Fair enough. We could just have them send a letter like the Warden in Inquisition. 1. Hard to explain. There was just things about them that clicked for me. I do know that I liked how much more control we had over them as opposed to protagonists like Hawke(same reason I like Ryder more than Shepard). 2. That would be better. Essentially this is how I rank the options regarding the Inquisitor from best to worst: 1) Protagonist of DA4 2) Dual protagonist 3) Referenced(like the letter or maybe Dorian or others mention you like they did HoF and Hawke) 4) No appearance whatsoever 5) Returns as a NPC I like 1 and 2, could begrudgingly accept 3 maybe, not like but be relieved with 4, and despise 5. |
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formerfiend
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 956
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 10, 2017 2:49:23 GMT
I'm not sure if others had this experience, but I find all my custom characters personality is similar enough that making a new one in DA4 isn't as important to me as getting the story from DAI finished completely. Chances are I'd just roll another similar character, maybe change the race or whatnot, but I find I keep going with choices in line with paragade Shepard. How different a character do you want to make in DA4? More like sarcastic Hawke vs Kind Hawke? I guess they won't let us go totally evil in the story . . . Excessively different. I want to play a character who would have had to have been thrown out of the Winter Palace by a dozen guards, if they even bothered to go to the palace rather than just let Orlais burn if it didn't acquiest to his demands. A character who would use the wrong fork at a fancy Orlesian dinner party and use it to kill anyone who tried to stab them with the right fork. I want to play a character who would take one look at the casual outfit the Inquisitor wears and throw it into the fire. I want to play a character dedicated to tearing down Thedas' established status quo, not one dedicated to enforcing it. I want to play a character who is gruff, uncouth, unrefined. The kind of character who would not be allowed within a mile of the Divine, let alone be on a first name basis with her, let alone have a one in three chance of potentially be sleeping with her. I want to play a character who simply would not put up with the bullshit that the Inquisitor had to. |
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Post by phoray on Sept 10, 2017 4:11:37 GMT
I'm not sure if others had this experience, but I find all my custom characters personality is similar enough that making a new one in DA4 isn't as important to me as getting the story from DAI finished completely. Chances are I'd just roll another similar character, maybe change the race or whatnot, but I find I keep going with choices in line with paragade Shepard. How different a character do you want to make in DA4? More like sarcastic Hawke vs Kind Hawke? I guess they won't let us go totally evil in the story . . . Excessively different. I want to play a character who would have had to have been thrown out of the Winter Palace by a dozen guards, if they even bothered to go to the palace rather than just let Orlais burn if it didn't acquiest to his demands. A character who would use the wrong fork at a fancy Orlesian dinner party and use it to kill anyone who tried to stab them with the right fork. I want to play a character who would take one look at the casual outfit the Inquisitor wears and throw it into the fire. snip bolded line full of hilarious win |
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brandoftime
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 10, 2017 13:05:36 GMT
I want to play a character dedicated to tearing down Thedas' established status quo, not one dedicated to enforcing it. I want to play a character who is gruff, uncouth, unrefined. The kind of character who would not be allowed within a mile of the Divine, let alone be on a first name basis with her, let alone have a one in three chance of potentially be sleeping with her. I want to play a character who simply would not put up with the bullshit that the Inquisitor had to. Almost sounds like Anders . . . just kidding  Seriously, though it sounds like you want an infiltrator/spy character, a free agent which because of being in the public eye the inky was not. Can they make say, the equivalent of Assassin's Creed- Dragon Age with a custom character we make do basically whatever we want? Hm, I could do that, but still want the dangling shit from Trespasser dealt with (no don't want to just read it in the comic either like in MEA.) It would be interesting if they let a new protagonist go out into the world and do anything, I thought Andrew Blacks' idea of a slave uprising could do that. Get the slaves in Tevinter to revolt, then after that the main would be out on his own and maybe start doing things to get Tevinter into a revolution. |
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Post by Blaze on Sept 11, 2017 10:42:23 GMT
i don't see the point, dragon age works in a way that in each game you play a different character, why change it now? the inquisitor's story is over, the warden's story is over, hawke's story is over. even if one or more of them be involved in the future in some way, there is no point of them being a protagonist, as much as i love my characters, the way it now now for dragon age works, why fix it if it ain't broken? Because the story is not over. The Inquisitor's mission as explicitly stated in the game is to close the Breach and stop those responsible. Solas is responsible for everything that happened and he is still out there, even having the same basic idea as Corypheus with the Breach. Throwing away a story that is unfinished and full of potential just to have a new character shows that it is broken so should be fixed. Even Bioware apparently once mentioned if the need was big enough they'd drop that rule. the story IS over. the breach is sealed, corypheus was stopped and the inquisition either disband or under the divine's command. the fact it was a show in part and sme inquisition agents are still active is irrelivant. whatever solas is planning and might be involved with in the future is ANOTHER story. trespasser concludes the inquisition story (doing so nicely i might add), it sets up things for the future yes but those things are not part of the same story. you know, people said the same thing about the warden, that their story wasn't over after witch hunt. but as gaider said many times, the warden's story ended when they slayed the archdemon, awakening was another, different, story as well as witch hunt. i'm confident bioware would, as you said, "drop the rule" if the need is big enough, but who says the need is big enough? we don't know the story for DA4, we don't know how big solas' role will be on it. and more importantly, we don't know the involvment the inquisitor might or might not have in that game. could be a cameo, could an important role like hawke had in inquisition, could be he will not appear and just mentioned, while running thngs from the background (or maybe not even that). see the inquisition doesn't need the inquisitor to actualy appear to be on DA4 and it's possible that whatever was set up in trespasser is not even related to the story of DA4 and is just a set up for things that will be even furthr into the future. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 11, 2017 17:44:38 GMT
Because the story is not over. The Inquisitor's mission as explicitly stated in the game is to close the Breach and stop those responsible. Solas is responsible for everything that happened and he is still out there, even having the same basic idea as Corypheus with the Breach. Throwing away a story that is unfinished and full of potential just to have a new character shows that it is broken so should be fixed. Even Bioware apparently once mentioned if the need was big enough they'd drop that rule. the story IS over. the breach is sealed, corypheus was stopped and the inquisition either disband or under the divine's command. the fact it was a show in part and sme inquisition agents are still active is irrelivant. whatever solas is planning and might be involved with in the future is ANOTHER story. trespasser concludes the inquisition story (doing so nicely i might add), it sets up things for the future yes but those things are not part of the same story. you know, people said the same thing about the warden, that their story wasn't over after witch hunt. but as gaider said many times, the warden's story ended when they slayed the archdemon, awakening was another, different, story as well as witch hunt. i'm confident bioware would, as you said, "drop the rule" if the need is big enough, but who says the need is big enough? we don't know the story for DA4, we don't know how big solas' role will be on it. and more importantly, we don't know the involvment the inquisitor might or might not have in that game. could be a cameo, could an important role like hawke had in inquisition, could be he will not appear and just mentioned, while running thngs from the background (or maybe not even that). see the inquisition doesn't need the inquisitor to actualy appear to be on DA4 and it's possible that whatever was set up in trespasser is not even related to the story of DA4 and is just a set up for things that will be even furthr into the future. lol at Trespasser concluding the story nicely. It couldn't have failed harder if it tried. As for the rest of your post, I can't really answer so we'll just have to wait and see if Bioware deems the need big enough to drop the rule. I hope they do. If they do not, I hope they do not involve the Inquisitor at all other than maybe some people referencing them so Bioware wouldn't further it. Patrick Weekes did state a while ago that the next Dragon Age game would conclude Solas' story so it won't be pushed off until DA5 or later. |
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 11, 2017 20:33:13 GMT
I would say that Trespasser finished the story of the Inquisition, sure. As for the Inquisitor (or whatever they are called after disbanding), and the remaining inner circle, it seems they still have work to do. By their own admission.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 12, 2017 8:36:21 GMT
the story IS over. the breach is sealed, corypheus was stopped and the inquisition either disband or under the divine's command. the fact it was a show in part and sme inquisition agents are still active is irrelivant. whatever solas is planning and might be involved with in the future is ANOTHER story. trespasser concludes the inquisition story (doing so nicely i might add), it sets up things for the future yes but those things are not part of the same story. you know, people said the same thing about the warden, that their story wasn't over after witch hunt. but as gaider said many times, the warden's story ended when they slayed the archdemon, awakening was another, different, story as well as witch hunt. i'm confident bioware would, as you said, "drop the rule" if the need is big enough, but who says the need is big enough? we don't know the story for DA4, we don't know how big solas' role will be on it. and more importantly, we don't know the involvment the inquisitor might or might not have in that game. could be a cameo, could an important role like hawke had in inquisition, could be he will not appear and just mentioned, while running thngs from the background (or maybe not even that). see the inquisition doesn't need the inquisitor to actualy appear to be on DA4 and it's possible that whatever was set up in trespasser is not even related to the story of DA4 and is just a set up for things that will be even furthr into the future. lol at Trespasser concluding the story nicely. It couldn't have failed harder if it tried. As for the rest of your post, I can't really answer so we'll just have to wait and see if Bioware deems the need big enough to drop the rule. I hope they do. If they do not, I hope they do not involve the Inquisitor at all other than maybe some people referencing them so Bioware wouldn't further it. Patrick Weekes did state a while ago that the next Dragon Age game would conclude Solas' story so it won't be pushed off until DA5 or later. Well, what I think they were trying to set up was the Inquisitor recruiting the next PC for the fight against Solas. So, I don't think you're getting what you want or your second choice. You can argue that that idea was and still is a mistake, and I'm not even 100% sure I'd disagree (personally I think this would have been best handled by a full expansion like Awakening, and then the next PC handling something less personal to the Inquisitor) but I'm pretty sure that's where all of the stuff you and ohdanigirl cite as reason for the Inquisitor to return was (and still is) meant to go. |
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Post by brandoftime on Sept 12, 2017 13:09:53 GMT
Well, we could always see them do the same thing they did with Hawke, able to customize and sort of resolve their story . . .
If you loved your Hawke and wanted them to ride off into the sunset with, say - Fenris, you're gonna have to head canon that, I'm afraid. But overall it was ok. I would be content if they handle the Inquisitor's story like that, as opposed to the Warden, who never shows up except as text on the war table and the occasional mention by romanced Leliana and Morrigan.
I'm personally hoping for a situation I've seen done really creatively in Assassin's Creed 3 and Syndicate. In AC3, you start as one character in the beginning, play their part, then switch to new guy and it has so much more impact like that, given the story. In Syndicate, the brother/sister could switch off as needed, really cool idea, but the AC3 way may work better in the next Dragon Age . . .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 13:17:05 GMT
Well, we could always see them do the same thing they did with Hawke, able to customize and sort of resolve their story . . . If you loved your Hawke and wanted them to ride off into the sunset with, say - Fenris, you're gonna have to head canon that, I'm afraid. But overall it was ok. I would be content if they handle the Inquisitor's story like that, as opposed to the Warden, who never shows up except as text on the war table and the occasional mention by romanced Leliana and Morrigan. I'm personally hoping for a situation I've seen done really creatively in Assassin's Creed 3 and Syndicate. In AC3, you start as one character in the beginning, play their part, then switch to new guy and it has so much more impact like that, given the story. In Syndicate, the brother/sister could switch off as needed, really cool idea, but the AC3 way may work better in the next Dragon Age . . . I really do not want to create two characters, and lose gametime and character development/building on the character I am not taking through the game. Particularly if specialization are locked out, or we are starting at level 1 all over again and if gearing is hard. It was odd in both DA2 and Inquisition when your character was created after the opening sequence. And jumping into CC to make Hawke mid-game was really awkward as welll. |
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snook
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by snook on Sept 12, 2017 14:07:11 GMT
I think it'd be cool to play the Inquisitor again for brief segments, if only because their missing arm pretty much guarantees their role would be an entirely political/diplomatic one rather than a combat role. I'd like to see how a character that doesn't go into a combat sequence every two minutes is handled.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 12, 2017 15:54:16 GMT
lol at Trespasser concluding the story nicely. It couldn't have failed harder if it tried. As for the rest of your post, I can't really answer so we'll just have to wait and see if Bioware deems the need big enough to drop the rule. I hope they do. If they do not, I hope they do not involve the Inquisitor at all other than maybe some people referencing them so Bioware wouldn't further it. Patrick Weekes did state a while ago that the next Dragon Age game would conclude Solas' story so it won't be pushed off until DA5 or later. Well, what I think they were trying to set up was the Inquisitor recruiting the next PC for the fight against Solas. So, I don't think you're getting what you want or your second choice. You can argue that that idea was and still is a mistake, and I'm not even 100% sure I'd disagree (personally I think this would have been best handled by a full expansion like Awakening, and then the next PC handling something less personal to the Inquisitor) but I'm pretty sure that's where all of the stuff you and ohdanigirl cite as reason for the Inquisitor to return was (and still is) meant to go. If that is the case, then I'm not buying the game. Really if they do that then between that and what they did to the Mass Effect fans probably I'd drop Bioware entirely. Well, we could always see them do the same thing they did with Hawke, able to customize and sort of resolve their story . . . If you loved your Hawke and wanted them to ride off into the sunset with, say - Fenris, you're gonna have to head canon that, I'm afraid. But overall it was ok. I would be content if they handle the Inquisitor's story like that, as opposed to the Warden, who never shows up except as text on the war table and the occasional mention by romanced Leliana and Morrigan. I'm personally hoping for a situation I've seen done really creatively in Assassin's Creed 3 and Syndicate. In AC3, you start as one character in the beginning, play their part, then switch to new guy and it has so much more impact like that, given the story. In Syndicate, the brother/sister could switch off as needed, really cool idea, but the AC3 way may work better in the next Dragon Age . . . That's exactly what I don't want them to do. They absolutely ruined my Hawke, so I'll take what they did to the Warden over that any day. |
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?) voices, while Sumalee Montano and Jon Curry do the British ones. 
