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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 18:14:22 GMT
the rookie may have a lot of rpgs, but Shepard has a cain. excellent Not in ME1 or ME3 though and this is still a fist fight... even if he has it, he can't use it. I'm just illustrating the weight factor... which, in Ryder's case is essentially unlimited and does not affect his ability to evade regardless of class and that there is no cool down on that skill.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 14, 2017 18:45:13 GMT
Not in ME1 or ME3 though and this is still a fist fight... even if he has it, he can't use it. I'm just illustrating the weight factor... which, in Ryder's case is essentially unlimited and does not affect his ability to evade regardless of class and that there is no cool down on that skill. Takes one punch to stun the rookie and he/she will go down quickly. All Shepard has to do is stand there wait for the rookie to get close enough to punch. Even with all that evading from Ryder, she/he still has to get in range to punch Shepard.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 19:05:24 GMT
Not in ME1 or ME3 though and this is still a fist fight... even if he has it, he can't use it. I'm just illustrating the weight factor... which, in Ryder's case is essentially unlimited and does not affect his ability to evade regardless of class and that there is no cool down on that skill. Takes one punch to stun the rookie and he/she will go down quickly. All Shepard has to do is stand there wait for the rookie to get close enough to punch. Even with all that evading from Ryder, she/he still has to get in range to punch Shepard. Shep will still eventually get dizzy just trying to keep an eye of Ryder circling him/her. Regardless of class, Ryder can get close enough in to punch before Shep would even be able to see him/her and scoot back out in the very next tick of the clock. Shep just was never given the means to evade that Ryder was making it unlikely that he/she would get even in a single solid punch.
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Post by jukaga on Sept 14, 2017 19:22:43 GMT
How is this even a question? Ryder isn't fit to scrub Shepard's toilet.
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Post by KaiserShep on Sept 14, 2017 21:59:25 GMT
Takes one punch to stun the rookie and he/she will go down quickly. All Shepard has to do is stand there wait for the rookie to get close enough to punch. Even with all that evading from Ryder, she/he still has to get in range to punch Shepard. Shep will still eventually get dizzy just trying to keep an eye of Ryder circling him/her. Regardless of class, Ryder can get close enough in to punch before Shep would even be able to see him/her and scoot back out in the very next tick of the clock. Shep just was never given the means to evade that Ryder was making it unlikely that he/she would get even in a single solid punch. That explorer profile is a mofo, passing through objects and whatnot. It would have been interesting to see 2 players of skill on par with each other duke it out in a 1v1 deathmatch rolling each character and their respective classes and powers. Even the fact that Ryder can nova blast without spending any shields (if one chooses) is pretty powerful.
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Post by SKAR on Sept 15, 2017 3:35:17 GMT
Shep obviously but then again, Ryder has some mad skills. Probably get some good hits.
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Post by SKAR on Sept 15, 2017 3:36:10 GMT
Ryder is a child, no AI help could change that in Andromeda. They cannot even be compared. Child? 22 ISN'T a child. 12 is.
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Post by 10k on Sept 15, 2017 17:58:00 GMT
HAHAHA even a fully human Shep with no cybernetics would kill any form of Ryder. Ryder is a coward, and couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag lol!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 21:17:14 GMT
Ryder, of course. It's obvious. Shepard can get knocked out by Khalisah Al-Jilani (the galaxy's punching bag) in ME3. It takes a badass pirate exile to knock out Ryder on his worst day.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 15, 2017 21:38:05 GMT
HAHAHA even a fully human Shep with no cybernetics would kill any form of Ryder. Ryder is a coward, and couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag lol!! I've never understood where this coward idea came from. Or maybe "meme" is more accurate; it doesn't seem to have the depth of an idea.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Sept 15, 2017 21:45:42 GMT
Shepard. But not because Ryder is some weakling. Shepard is a trained soldier. Ryder's not. Enough with the Ryder shaming!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 22:00:22 GMT
Shepard. But not because Ryder is some weakling. Shepard is a trained soldier. Ryder's not. Enough with the Ryder shaming! BroRyder was in the Alliance on active duty at the Arcturus Relay and his dad showed him N7 tricks. It's right in the dialogue. So Ryder can also be considered a trained soldier, just not a formally trained N7. During the game he can also Earn His Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program. FemRyder was also in the Alliance as a Peacekeeper. I haven't played as Sara yet, so I don't know for sure but I'm willing to be she also indicates that her dad showed her some N7 tricks and that she can also Earn Her Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program during the game. Canada's peacekeeping forces worldwide ARE trained soldiers.
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Post by slayer299 on Sept 15, 2017 23:03:03 GMT
Is thqt even a question OP? Ryder gets obliterated in 10 secs by Shep. Ryder couldn't win even if Shepard was 3/4 dead, had no legs, 1 arm and blind in 1 eye.
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Post by slayer299 on Sept 15, 2017 23:14:03 GMT
Shepard. But not because Ryder is some weakling. Shepard is a trained soldier. Ryder's not. Enough with the Ryder shaming! BroRyder was in the Alliance on active duty at the Arcturus Relay and his dad showed him N7 tricks. It's right in the dialogue. So Ryder can also be considered a trained soldier, just not a formally trained N7. During the game he can also Earn His Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program. FemRyder was also in the Alliance as a Peacekeeper. I haven't played as Sara yet, so I don't know for sure but I'm willing to be she also indicates that her dad showed her some N7 tricks and that she can also Earn Her Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program during the game. Canada's peacekeeping forces worldwide ARE trained soldiers. With your example of Canada, so you think the odds of a Canadian soldier vs an elite commando (Spetsnaz, SAS, insert other), the Canadian soldier would win? Really? There is a world of difference between knowing some N7 'tricks' as an Alliance soldier and being an N7 if you read the Codex on it. As for the Angaran, all we are told is that it is an equivalence without any other reference or clear information
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 23:21:58 GMT
BroRyder was in the Alliance on active duty at the Arcturus Relay and his dad showed him N7 tricks. It's right in the dialogue. So Ryder can also be considered a trained soldier, just not a formally trained N7. During the game he can also Earn His Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program. FemRyder was also in the Alliance as a Peacekeeper. I haven't played as Sara yet, so I don't know for sure but I'm willing to be she also indicates that her dad showed her some N7 tricks and that she can also Earn Her Badge in the Angaran equivalent of the N7 program during the game. Canada's peacekeeping forces worldwide ARE trained soldiers. With your example of Canada, so you think the odds of a Canadian soldier vs an elite commando (Spetsnaz, SAS, insert other), the Canadian soldier would win? Really? There is a world of difference between knowing some N7 'tricks' as an Alliance soldier and being an N7 if you read the Codex on it. As for the Angaran, all we are told is that it is an equivalence without any other reference or clear information I'm using it as an example countering the statement previously stated that Ryder is not a trained soldier. He/she is a trained soldier. How highly trained is unknown because the degree of informal training Alec Ryder provides his kids is never divulged in the game. It is just stated that he did pass on N7 tricks to them. It is never stated in the game that Ryder is untrained. It is everyone's assumption that Ryder is untrained. Ryder can also earn the Angaran equivalent of N7 status during the game. During the tutorial, Liam comments that Ryder can handle himself/herself pretty well. Where is your evidence from the game itself that Ryder is untrained as a soldier? The closest statement Ryder makes actually is that he is untrained as a Pathfinder. As alanc9 also countered, there is no in game evidence of Ryder being a coward. It takes a lot of courage to take an unarmed ship into unknown territory. I like Shepard just as much as the next guy... but you're all just being blind about the actual in-game evidence.
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Post by slayer299 on Sept 16, 2017 3:58:57 GMT
I've never said Ryder is untrained, where do you get that from what I said above? I've played and the game is clear that Ryder is a trained Alliance soldier. The problem with the Angaran 'equivalent' is that it just makes him an N7 and by what standards? N7 specialization doesn't just happen over a bootcamp or just a skirmish vs Angaran elites and 'poof' you're just as bad ass as any N7.
Again, you keep attributing things I did not say to me. Where did I call Ryder a coward or untrained? At all. I said there is a difference between being taught tricks (in addition) to being an Alliance soldier vs an N7. There is no overwhelming evidence people are being blind to that Ryder is some amazing non-N7, N7 who can kick butt, take names and chew bubblegum. What we are told in-game isn't all that overwhelming and is pretty underwhelming. If you want Ryder to be some bad-ass, butt kicker at the start, than feel free to head canon him/her that way.
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Post by slayer299 on Sept 16, 2017 3:59:45 GMT
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Post by Guts on Sept 16, 2017 4:36:28 GMT
Not exactly a fair question. It's like asking, "Who would win: Hulk Hogan or a toddler?" EDIT: I like Ryder as a character (could use some more development and less reliance on SAM), but as others have stated, Shepard is a trained soldier (N7 being the best of the best), Ryder hasn't had much experience under his/her belt. Shepard would wipe the floor with Ryder.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 8:47:13 GMT
I've never said Ryder is untrained, where do you get that from what I said above? I've played and the game is clear that Ryder is a trained Alliance soldier. The problem with the Angaran 'equivalent' is that it just makes him an N7 and by what standards? N7 specialization doesn't just happen over a bootcamp or just a skirmish vs Angaran elites and 'poof' you're just as bad ass as any N7. Again, you keep attributing things I did not say to me. Where did I call Ryder a coward or untrained? At all. I said there is a difference between being taught tricks (in addition) to being an Alliance soldier vs an N7. There is no overwhelming evidence people are being blind to that Ryder is some amazing non-N7, N7 who can kick butt, take names and chew bubblegum. What we are told in-game isn't all that overwhelming and is pretty underwhelming. If you want Ryder to be some bad-ass, butt kicker at the start, than feel free to head canon him/her that way. I was originally responding to Animal Boy who said it. You're the one who cut in on that response so don't play blind about that now. Where is your in-game evidence that Ryder is "untrained" as a soldier? It's a simple question. Also, we're not talking about a black op here... we're talking about a fist fight. You did challenge me on what I thought about the how Canadian Peacekeepers would fair against Delta Ops. IMO, there are probably some of them in there who would fair quite well. Canada is known worldwide as a peacekeeping nation, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a black ops team (that until recently has been very secretive and are not well known). You can look up articles online if you're interested. They can apparently hold their own. Where is your evidence that the Angaran equivalent of N7 is not equal to that of being an N7. The Angara resistance have been fighting a full out war against the kett for about 70 years. The First Contact war lasted, what, months? The N7 of Shepard's time (prior to the Reaper War) were relegated to fighting little skirmishes with the Baterians and a few Omega mercs. ME:A in fact acknowledges the player's skills and ties them to the dialogue. If the player takes a long time to take down the kett Drack is fighting with on Eos, Drack will tell Ryder that he's green, BUT if the player takes out those kett quickly and with a few headshots in the mix, Drack will instead tell Ryder that Ryder can clearly hold his own. Drack is highly trained in combat with more than a thousand years of experience. If Ryder can impress Drack that way... he can readily beat Shepard in a fist fight... particularly with youth, speed, and endurance on his side. If your Ryder is "green as grass" - perhaps you just need to "git good" at actually playing the game.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 16, 2017 11:35:50 GMT
So Ryder impressing a krogan means he/she can beat Shepard? If that's what you believe, go ahead. Would that krogan still be impressed after seeing Ryder not stand up for him/herself after the asari knocks Ryder to the ground? He might laugh and call the rookie a wimp. It happens again with the escape pod. Why can't Ryder stand up for him/herself and get in the asari's face? When being mouthed off from characters in the game, why can't Ryder return the favor by mouthing off at them?
Shepard does have endurance and speed.
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Post by N7Valentine on Sept 16, 2017 11:43:24 GMT
Shepard, duh
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 11:44:58 GMT
So Ryder impressing a krogan means he/she can beat Shepard? If that's what you believe, go ahead. Would that krogan still be impressed after seeing Ryder not stand up for him/herself after the asari knocks Ryder to the ground? He might laugh and call the rookie a wimp. It happens again with the escape pod. Why can't Ryder stand up for him/herself and get in the asari's face? When being mouthed off from characters in the game, why can't Ryder return the favor by mouthing off at them? Shepard does have endurance and speed. That's simple... Ryder sees no reason to stand up for himself against the Asari. Choosing to not use force is not an indication that one is incapable of using force. Why does Shepard get suckered punched in the stomach by James during their sparing match? Shepard does have some endurance and some speed... but as I've indicated previously... Ryder is never shown tiring. Shepard is shown in the games to tire. In ME1, they clearly show him/her fatigued while running out of the Therum ruins. As for speed, all of his/her squad mates pass him on that run. At the end of ME2, same thing, the squad mates pass him on the dash to the ship during the SM. Ryder, on the other hand, is shown clearly waiting for his/her squad to catch up during the escape from the vault on Eos. So, all of that said... I'm begging out of this ridiculous thread now. So far, the posts for Shepard are not showing any in game evidence to support the notion that he/she would win a fist fight against Ryder. It's a bullshit troll topic anyways.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 16, 2017 11:50:34 GMT
That's simple... Ryder sees no reason to stand up for himself against the Asari. Choosing to not use force is not an indication that one is incapable of using force. I never said anything about using force.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2017 12:07:01 GMT
That's simple... Ryder sees no reason to stand up for himself against the Asari. Choosing to not use force is not an indication that one is incapable of using force. I never said anything about using force. Use of some physical force is usually required to win a fist fight. Ryder can "stand up to the Asari" by throwing her off while saying "time to get off." She can confirm that he/she is "pretty solidly built." So, what are you actually saying about it then. Are you implying that it shows Ryder is a coward? He never actually runs from the Asari either. He/she can tell her that he/she is mad about the escape pod trick. He/she can wind up "standing up" to her by shooting her ex-lover in the back... essentially forcing her to retrieve the remtech device. Anticipating here that what you're really going on about is that he/she can't decline to recruit her... well, what does limiting the player to that story-based option have to do with a imaginary fist fight? There is another example of Shepard's lack of punching ability in ME1. If one opts to not use the gas grenades on Feros and playing on a higher difficulty, Shepard invariably takes several punches to knock out the Exo-geni security dame, the Salarian shop keeper, and the female crew person of the freighter.
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Post by themikefest on Sept 16, 2017 12:46:14 GMT
Use of some physical force is usually required to win a fist fight. No kidding, but Ryder and the asari are not in a fist fight. And how long did that interrupt take? Why so long? The asari ends up jokingly saying don't like being sat on. She thinks its a joke and everyone should accept it. Why can't Ryder get in her face and say what the **** is your problem? Would you like it if I knock you to the ground? I'm sure the asari wouldn't like that. What's wrong with Ryder establishing she/he doesn't put up with that crap? Yes. How many people do you know who wouldn't react to someone knocking them to the ground? What good did that do? She still goes on like nothing ever happened. This has to do with.....what? Either way, I would still shoot the girlfriend. What's with the assumption? I never gave that any thought until you mentioned it. And what does a krogan being impressed have to do with a fist fight?
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