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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2017 6:17:26 GMT
I find this another very weird standard to judge a game by. A lot of my favorite games have had a lot of deeply frustrating or even boring moments littered throughout. (Da i, ME2, TW 3)
In fact if i were to say MEA probably delivered one of the most consistently fun experiences i have played.
It's not about if a game is fun per se but if its more fun then it is boring and how well it's put together as an art form.
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...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
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Post by Kappa Neko on Sept 17, 2017 9:05:06 GMT
If A LARGE NUMBER of people report that something starts off slow and underwhelming, it DOES mean the intro was done wrong.
However, this does not mean that the entire experience will be bland. While most of my favorite shows and games grabbed me right away, not all of them did. I was NOT amazed with W3 the second I fired it up. In fact I was disappointed by the graphic and art style of the not very exciting countryside for several hours. Takes quite a while for the story to really kick off. And gameplay-wise I was a bit lost what to do because I seemed underleveled for every quest.
And yet DESPITE that I consider W3 one of the best games ever made.
Open world games can really take a bit to get going, especially if you let yourself get sidetracked by exploration right away.
Took me almost until Skyhold to get really into DAI. It's all a very drawn out prologue until then.
Very linear games however I cannot recall any good ones that I was bored with at first. Certainly no Bioware game.
As for MEA, I almost quit within the fist hour because the tutorial planet forced Liam on me. And it was absolutely cringe worthy and actually dull to play. Things got A LOT better on Eos when I dumped Liam's ass and never used him again for the rest of the game. In fact, Eos was probably the only part of the game I truly enjoyed. And the narrative was good there too. So personally, if Eos does nothing for you, maybe the game really isn't for you. But that's just me.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 17, 2017 14:10:50 GMT
The problems are impatient gamers with short attention spans and their need for immediate gratification. Some of the best games I have ever played have been slow starters. These gamers are why single player gaming is slowly dying. No, you are killing the industry. I was fascinated by every moment of KotOR in my first playthrough, and was never bored by Taris even if I wanted muh lightsaber. Things are compelling, and well done, or they're not. Your revisionist history here is a whopping load of shit. Why are you still here commenting on a game you haven't even played?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 14:35:02 GMT
No OP what killed off MEA was BW quitting on it, failing to address the shortcomings, releasing more SP DLCs and expanding on the foundations on what was already done. Instead of trying to catch up and release a two or three SP DLCs contents of good quality to make up for the poor release of the game, they just dropped the project and told everyone that sorry we will move on.
This killed MEA, those who hated it and hated BW got their point confirmed, those that enjoyed it and supported BW got a nice middle finger from BW thus becoming annoyed at them. This obviously impacted every aspect of the game even MP. A dropped game stinks of incompleteness, BW incapacity and EA cutting costs. It also stinks with the bitterness and disappointment of their fans who were expecting and deserving so much more. Bottom line the fans enraged in one way (those who hate it) or the other (those who liked it and got shafted), just moved on and avoided spending more money on this abandoned project.
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Post by abaris on Sept 17, 2017 14:56:06 GMT
No OP what killed off MEA was BW quitting on it, failing to address the shortcomings, releasing more SP DLCs and expanding on the foundations on what was already done. Instead of trying to catch up and release a two or three SP DLCs contents of good quality to make up for the poor release of the game, they just dropped the project and told everyone that sorry we will move on. Larian just gives another example on how things should be handled, shortly after the release of Original Sin II. Same as they did with 1. As did Obsidian with Pillars and Tyranny. On their official boards, devs engaging with users, giving hints on how certain features should be used and listening to suggestions on how to improve the games.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 17, 2017 15:35:23 GMT
"It wasn't the game... t'was bEAuty that killed the beast."
:smh:
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 17, 2017 15:47:19 GMT
No, you are killing the industry. I was fascinated by every moment of KotOR in my first playthrough, and was never bored by Taris even if I wanted muh lightsaber. Things are compelling, and well done, or they're not. Your revisionist history here is a whopping load of shit. Why are you still here commenting on a game you haven't even played? I. Am. Playing. The. Trial. Right. Now. It is bad, if that helps.
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Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Scathane
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Post by Scathane on Sept 17, 2017 16:10:00 GMT
It's probably me, of course, but I always thought that game trials were there for that specific purpose: to see if you like the game and - perhaps - buy it.
So, in other words, to form an opinion on the product... #sillyme
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2017 16:25:49 GMT
It's probably me, of course, but I always thought that game trials were there for that specific purpose: to see if you like the game and - perhaps - buy it. So, in other words, to form an opinion on the product... #sillyme Of course... but people who actually finished the game will always have a more informed opinion than people who have only played a few hours of it. If one just reads a book jacket and tries to write a book review based on that... their review is far more likely to be inaccurate than a person who has quickly read the entire book... and a person who has studied the book in depth will be able to write an even more detailed and accurate review than even the person to just did one quick read of the book. The problem here over the last few months has been with people who haven't played the game telling people that their opinions are arbitrarily more sound than people who have actually played the game... and that's just crap. They also continually make "universal" type statements about specific contents in the game that are misleading because they are not universal. Even after multiple playthroughs, playing something in a different sequence or not doing some of the quests but doing others will change the dialogue options offered in the game. The wikis still have a number of "wrong" statements in them because what was assumed to trigger something actually wasn't related to that trigger at all. I'm fine with people who sample the game and find they don't like it. I'm not fine with being continually told that I shouldn't like it by those people. I've played game 3 times through now... and I like it for a lot of moments a person who has just done the trial has no way of knowing about... and I still have a lot of other moments in the game that I'm sure I haven't discovered/unlocked yet. I'm also not fine with being continually told (or having it implied) that my mental faculties are somehow inferior or that I'm the sort of person who's happy with a wake up not shitting myself (as was implied above by someone else - not you) merely because I like a game that person doesn't. Those sorts of off-handed little remarks are just stupid.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 17, 2017 17:09:03 GMT
Why are you still here commenting on a game you haven't even played? I. Am. Playing. The. Trial. Right. Now. It is bad, if that helps. Let's test the hypothesis. How far are you, what's bad about it, and are these things which could conceivably get better later in the game?
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Scathane
N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: Scathane
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Post by Scathane on Sept 17, 2017 17:33:20 GMT
It's probably me, of course, but I always thought that game trials were there for that specific purpose: to see if you like the game and - perhaps - buy it. So, in other words, to form an opinion on the product... #sillyme Of course... but people who actually finished the game will always have a more informed opinion than people who have only played a few hours of it. If one just reads a book jacket and tries to write a book review based on that... their review is far more likely to be inaccurate than a person who has quickly read the entire book... and a person who has studied the book in depth will be able to write an even more detailed and accurate review than even the person to just did one quick read of the book. The problem here over the last few months has been with people who haven't played the game telling people that their opinions are arbitrarily more sound than people who have actually played the game... and that's just crap. They also continually make "universal" type statements about specific contents in the game that are misleading because they are not universal. Even after multiple playthroughs, playing something in a different sequence or not doing some of the quests but doing others will change the dialogue options offered in the game. The wikis still have a number of "wrong" statements in them because what was assumed to trigger something actually wasn't related to that trigger at all. I'm fine with people who sample the game and find they don't like it. I'm not fine with being continually told that I shouldn't like it by those people. I've played game 3 times through now... and I like it for a lot of moments a person who has just done the trial has no way of knowing about... and I still have a lot of other moments in the game that I'm sure I haven't discovered/unlocked yet. I'm also not fine with being continually told (or having it implied) that my mental faculties are somehow inferior or that I'm the sort of person who's happy with a wake up not shitting myself (as was implied above by someone else - not you) merely because I like a game that person doesn't. Those sorts of off-handed little remarks are just stupid. No argument there. But then, the interwebs are full of bs claims about games. Neither MEA nor these forums form an exception, I guess. FWIW, I'm not one of the MEA haters. I like both the SP and MP, in fact. I haven't finished SP yet though and, personally, will wait with any verdicts about SP until I have...
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2017 18:43:03 GMT
If A LARGE NUMBER of people report that something starts off slow and underwhelming, it DOES mean the intro was done wrong. However, this does not mean that the entire experience will be bland. While most of my favorite shows and games grabbed me right away, not all of them did. I was NOT amazed with W3 the second I fired it up. In fact I was disappointed by the graphic and art style of the not very exciting countryside for several hours. Takes quite a while for the story to really kick off. And gameplay-wise I was a bit lost what to do because I seemed underleveled for every quest. And yet DESPITE that I consider W3 one of the best games ever made. Open world games can really take a bit to get going, especially if you let yourself get sidetracked by exploration right away. Took me almost until Skyhold to get really into DAI. It's all a very drawn out prologue until then. Very linear games however I cannot recall any good ones that I was bored with at first. Certainly no Bioware game. As for MEA, I almost quit within the fist hour because the tutorial planet forced Liam on me. And it was absolutely cringe worthy and actually dull to play. Things got A LOT better on Eos when I dumped Liam's ass and never used him again for the rest of the game. In fact, Eos was probably the only part of the game I truly enjoyed. And the narrative was good there too. So personally, if Eos does nothing for you, maybe the game really isn't for you. But that's just me. most of my favorite things in Entertainment had slow or weak openings. DA I, DA O, ME 2, ME, Babylon 5, Farscape, Game of Thrones, Star Wars, Harry Potter, it goes on. The only three things i can think of that had strong openings or looked like they were going to be a strong opening of a strong storyline is SG-1, Firefly, and MEA.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 17, 2017 19:17:53 GMT
What is it about Liam that gets to people, anyway?
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2017 19:32:32 GMT
What is it about Liam that gets to people, anyway? he's a human who messes up while people seem to only want uber mensches in their games.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 17, 2017 19:47:48 GMT
What is it about Liam that gets to people, anyway? he's a human who messes up while people seem to only want uber mensches in their games. I don't mind him too much. At least he's not Jacob.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 17, 2017 19:49:10 GMT
Liam is a very human character. The most human character since Ashley in my opinion.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 17, 2017 19:50:21 GMT
Liam is a very human character. The most human character since Ashley in my opinion. Hmm yeah I guess he is. Definitely better than Kaiden. That guy never grew on me.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 17, 2017 19:50:49 GMT
Liam is a very human character. The most human character since Ashley in my opinion. I'd say since James Vega.
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Post by abaris on Sept 17, 2017 19:52:15 GMT
What is it about Liam that gets to people, anyway? In my case, boring as hell. Useless in a fight, in his unmodded state and obnoxious on the side.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 17, 2017 20:56:37 GMT
Hmm. I didn't see Liam as useless. What was your problem, and what did modding solve?
And is "boring" the typical charge against Liam? I see people acting like they're actively annoyed by him.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by MarilynRobert on Sept 17, 2017 22:00:04 GMT
What is it about Liam that gets to people, anyway? At first Liam's misdirected enthusiasm made me not want anything to do with him but he grew on me over several playthroughs and now he's one of my favorite teammates.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 17, 2017 22:28:56 GMT
I. Am. Playing. The. Trial. Right. Now. It is bad, if that helps. Let's test the hypothesis. How far are you, what's bad about it, and are these things which could conceivably get better later in the game? on Eos. The gunplay is good, but instead of the omnibutton that did all these things,they introduced the autocover/autograpple element which I find worse. The verticality of the maps is interesting, and the jump pack mobility provides some interesting moments. It is limited, which I understand you can upgrade later on. That might get better. I met Drack, and he looks and feels Krogan. That cannot be said for the Turians, whose faces have become tired and miss a whole bunch of their character from the trilogy. The combat UI is different and definitely not better. I am about to have a conversation with Cora, she apparently wants to talk to me. I sure wish I could tell her what powers to use, and when, in combat. As it is, I am sure I will have an on-rails conversation like the ones I had on the Nexus with several people. The conversation choices leave a lot to be desired, as do their descriptors: a for half of my options just feels weird. So, some things can get better. Most cannot, IMO.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 17, 2017 22:34:55 GMT
Let's test the hypothesis. How far are you, what's bad about it, and are these things which could conceivably get better later in the game? on Eos. The gunplay is good, but instead of the omnibutton that did all these things,they introduced the autocover/autograpple element which I find worse. The verticality of the maps is interesting, and the jump pack mobility provides some interesting moments. It is limited, which I understand you can upgrade later on. That might get better. I met Drack, and he looks and feels Krogan. That cannot be said for the Turians, whose faces have become tired and miss a whole bunch of their character from the trilogy. The combat UI is different and definitely not better. I am about to have a conversation with Cora, she apparently wants to talk to me. I sure wish I could tell her what powers to use, and when, in combat. As it is, I am sure I will have an on-rails conversation like the ones I had on the Nexus with several people. The conversation choices leave a lot to be desired, as do their descriptors: a for half of my options just feels weird. So, some things can get better. Most cannot, IMO. Your biggest issue however is you went in expecting and maybe even wanting it to suck. Personally I prefer not having to pause and tell my AI teammates what to do. I do see what you and others say about the Turians. They maybe aren't as varied in appearance but far from terrible. Please explain what you mean by on the rails conversation?
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,974 Likes: 21,012
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Sept 17, 2017 22:52:42 GMT
on Eos. The gunplay is good, but instead of the omnibutton that did all these things,they introduced the autocover/autograpple element which I find worse. The verticality of the maps is interesting, and the jump pack mobility provides some interesting moments. It is limited, which I understand you can upgrade later on. That might get better. I met Drack, and he looks and feels Krogan. That cannot be said for the Turians, whose faces have become tired and miss a whole bunch of their character from the trilogy. The combat UI is different and definitely not better. I am about to have a conversation with Cora, she apparently wants to talk to me. I sure wish I could tell her what powers to use, and when, in combat. As it is, I am sure I will have an on-rails conversation like the ones I had on the Nexus with several people. The conversation choices leave a lot to be desired, as do their descriptors: a for half of my options just feels weird. So, some things can get better. Most cannot, IMO. Your biggest issue however is you went in expecting and maybe even wanting it to suck. Personally I prefer not having to pause and tell my AI teammates what to do. I do see what you and others say about the Turians. They maybe aren't as varied in appearance but far from terrible. Please explain what you mean by on the rails conversation?I'm guessing they mean not masny options on the dialogue wheel which I've got to admit there isn't as many this time round but the game's still interesting enough for me to keep playing it
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 17, 2017 23:33:28 GMT
Your biggest issue however is you went in expecting and maybe even wanting it to suck. Personally I prefer not having to pause and tell my AI teammates what to do. I do see what you and others say about the Turians. They maybe aren't as varied in appearance but far from terrible. Please explain what you mean by on the rails conversation?I'm guessing they mean not masny options on the dialogue wheel which I've got to admit there isn't as many this time round but the game's still interesting enough for me to keep playing it Could be. Yeah the options aren't as varied but it does still hold my interest. Plus I just can't see the Ryders acting like either my Saintly or Asshat Sheps.
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