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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2017 22:40:10 GMT
So, as background, a while ago before Andromeda was released EA launched an essentially free trial in which you could play ten hours of the game. Now, from a marketing perspective, this makes perfect sense. They were tring to build up hype for their work and show it off for people who were still on the fence and wanting to buy it or...not. But, at the end of the day this decision seems to have backfired, because the more I read these forums, the more I realize that people were turned off especially because of the trial. And I think this boils down to one simple problem, and that was that they limited what people can do during the trial.
Now I do understand the reasons for it, they did not want to have major spoilers for the game running around before it was even out. This was a good thing. But, this set up people having very different experiences within their ten hours. In my first PT of the game after ten hours I had already done what was, for me, an extremly fun experience. I had already played through A Better Beginning, which I thought was amazing, recruited Jaal, which is something that is always a priority for me in my BioWare games is to make sure I have all my companions recruited ASAP, and I had either ten a Tial of Hope or was well on my way to doing that quest. But, for people who did the trial, they were essentially limited in their ten hours, from what I have heard, to Eos. And they could not get into the Vault. They were stuck. Having to grind on pointless side quests and a lot of meanial tasks, which from one perspective makes a lot of sense but it if I were in their shoes I probably would have been greatly frustrated. Not enough to not make me want to buy the game, or even not love the game, but enough to have a frustating experience. Because I realized I had this problem with BioWare's last title, Dragon Age Inquisition. Which, while it is my favorite game of all time, the first nine or ten hours in my first PT of that game was deeply frustrating and it was beginning to look like a Tier 3 game...at best. Which for a BioWare game, is very dissapointing. But then In Your Heart Shall Burn happened and the second act was much, much better and subsequntly my other PTs of the game were a lot funner because I knew what was in store after I got through the grinding. But, MEA wisely removed the power requirement in the game so you could do what quests you could do for whatever reasons you wanted to in whatever order you wanted to do them in which greatly enhanced the experience of the main game upon release...but the trial was stuck behind an artificial gate. They were stuck in the Hinterlands. For ten hours. Without the ability to advance the story to the good bits.
Couple this with the fact that the Trial was, apparently, less polished then the release version which was already a...mess...and it is actually abit more understandable why the game was recieved the way it was. EA and BioWare had a golden opprotunity to showcase the game's strengths, of which there are many, and instead focused on the opening area which involved grinding tasks and side quests only, not the amazing story and RP opprotunities I felt the game provided.
Of course the main problem here, and the frustrating thing is I am unsure how to fix it. EA was driven by very smart marketing decisions, but it backfired dramatically. So other than the idea that they should 'get gud' I have no other advice to offer.
What says you BSN?
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Post by cypherj on Sept 18, 2017 22:51:39 GMT
Yeah, horrible mistake. They had to notice the game had issues, but they let people see it early anyway. Then to compound this bad decision they had a review embargo. So they didn't let the people who would have had more level-headed reviews see the game, they left it to players to put out the first impressions.
Then to top it all off, the trial was probably the worst part of the game. I didn't particularly like the game, but if they asked me pick the worst ten hours of the game, I would probably pick the ten hours they put out as the trial.
But ultimately I don't think it would have changed the games fate. I don't think the issue was people not buying the game in the beginning, I think the issue was people not buying it and not continuing to play it once it was actually out. If people didn't like the protagonist, the crew, the story, the open world, etc. Having a better trial wouldn't have done much to change anything.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2017 22:52:05 GMT
The opening really doesn't do a good job of selling the "amazing story" either.
It, and Habitat 7, do a terrible job in selling the game's story I'd argue. The arguable benefit of the stupidly rushed opening is that you get to the gameplay quicker and thus the introduction to the combat aspects.
But Habitat 7 also fails to truly show off what to expect from the game in terms of exploration arguably given the linearity of the area, with minor diversions allowing enough freedom to explore without the narrative's tightness suffering. From Eos onwards, all that linearity just goes out the window.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2017 23:03:43 GMT
The opening really doesn't do a good job of selling the "amazing story" either. It, and Habitat 7, do a terrible job in selling the game's story I'd argue. The arguable benefit of the stupidly rushed opening is that you get to the gameplay quicker and thus the introduction to the combat aspects. But Habitat 7 also fails to truly show off what to expect from the game in terms of exploration arguably given the linearity of the area, with minor diversions allowing enough freedom to explore without the narrative's tightness suffering. From Eos onwards, all that linearity just goes out the window. I really like Habitat 7 to be honest. Like in DA I the purpose of Habitat 7 is not to introduce you to the main aspects of the gameplay, but the protagonist, few central characters, central threat, and central objectives of the overall game. Eos, like the Hinterlands, then introduces you more to what you should expect from the gameplay. Just the mistake they made with MEAs trial, like with the Hinterlands, was making an artificial block on the content you could pursue initially so at first you HAD to grind and you HAD TO go through what was, essentially, an extended tutorial on the game, whereas more experienced BioWare players, or players who have a different preference on what they find important might prefer to ignore this content...because they already know how to play the game and thus a tutorial of this nature is superfulious...or they swing back to it after they are already invested in the narrative in the characters (like I did.)
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Post by kenshen19 on Sept 18, 2017 23:41:14 GMT
It certainly didn't help that is for sure however the trail did have a secondary effect to which we can't measure is that it did force people to sign up on Origon (or whatever that thing is called). I am sure EA saw some other game sales because of it.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 19, 2017 0:12:44 GMT
To be honest the game's whole marketing campaign was a bust.
I've also never really personally cared much for gated trials of story based games, since as noted you tend to get gated out well before the story has ramped up to the good parts. You're not really left wanting more because all they've had time to do is establish the main elements.
In my opinion it works better on gameplay focused games where I'm going to be putting 100+ hours into the game based almost entirely on how fun I find the gameplay itself. Games like Battlefield 1 work better with the trial for this reason.
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Post by melbella on Sept 19, 2017 0:59:41 GMT
I think a demo like they did for ME3 might have worked better. I played the first mission of the demo and I was hooked. I bought ME and ME2 so I could play them before ME3 released. The second mission in the demo was a heavily edited trip to Surkesh (mostly to show Cerberus was in the game, I think) but I didn't need it since the opening already sold me.
So, perhaps the first mission could have been Habitat 7 up to Alec fixing the monolith (don't show the part where he dies). Then, have something from later in the game (again, heavily edited) that will tease something about the kett, the angara, the remnant, whatever. Maybe the asari ark with Cora, without a lot of context, but enough to show off gameplay, dialogue, visuals. Something to make you want to find out what the heck is going on.
I was one of those players frustrated with the trial. Not only was I gated story-wise, but I couldn't even explore much of Eos due to the radiation (that part still bothers me, 5 PTs later). I was, as you point out, stuck. Better to have a couple short snapshot missions instead of an arbitrary cut off that leaves things unresolved.
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Post by shinobiwan on Sept 19, 2017 1:21:35 GMT
It does boil down to one simple problem, although not quite the one the OP states.
The game was bad. The early access made that clear faster but isn't really the source of the problem.
I see a lot of 'what could they do better next time' threads here. Evaluating whether to do an early trial before knowing where the game stands makes no sense right now. But there's a much larger set of answers that would drastically improve the next title beyond minutiae that may not even apply next time around.
1) don't give an untested studio a full title until you're sure they can handle it, especially when taking a core IP in a brand new direction
2) don't let said studio waste years on an obviously untenable design choice
3) make sure the studio builds in enough development time, especially if they need to use new tech and build systems from scratch
That's it really. The rest of the pieces will fall into place from there.
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Post by Blast Processor on Sept 19, 2017 1:46:02 GMT
Sure maybe they could've duped a few people into buying the game otherwise. But EA like most Publishers has a long history of treating there customers like dirt, so a rare positive stroke from them is something I would never call a mistake. EA did good.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 19, 2017 1:52:33 GMT
To be honest the game's whole marketing campaign was a bust. I've also never really personally cared much for gated trials of story based games, since as noted you tend to get gated out well before the story has ramped up to the good parts. You're not really left wanting more because all they've had time to do is establish the main elements. In my opinion it works better on gameplay focused games where I'm going to be putting 100+ hours into the game based almost entirely on how fun I find the gameplay itself. Games like Battlefield 1 work better with the trial for this reason. I don't think the entire marketing campaign was bad, the Andromeda Initiative videos were good I thought. Had me excited to the play the game. Too bad it turned out that the videos didn't represent the game.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Sept 19, 2017 2:21:37 GMT
In retrospect yes. It allowed the YouTube trolls to get derpy about it and the sheep listened to their YouTube masters instead of thinking for themselves.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 2:22:30 GMT
In retrospect yes. It allowed the YouTube trolls to get derpy about it and the sheep listened to their YouTube masters instead of thinking for themselves. That and the hate engine got out in front of the people who were busily playing the game...
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 19, 2017 3:55:06 GMT
In retrospect yes. It allowed the YouTube trolls to get derpy about it and the sheep listened to their YouTube masters instead of thinking for themselves. That and the hate engine got out in front of the people who were busily playing the game... Yup. ME3 style demo would have been better. Do the Wakeup Prologue and sho them leaving for H7 then I'd show the Lusinia mission.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 3:55:54 GMT
That and the hate engine got out in front of the people who were busily playing the game... Yup. ME3 style demo would have been better. Do the Wakeup Prologue and sho them leaving for H7 then I'd show the Lusinia mission. That would have been perfect.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 4:18:46 GMT
Actually what I think about it instead of Lusinia it should have been Liam's mission. Maybe. Liam and the Lusinia mission probably would have been the two best ones to show off for a demo...and the only weakness the Liam mission would have is it would have risked pissing off the "MCU sucks because humor is bad" crowd.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 19, 2017 4:26:11 GMT
Actually what I think about it instead of Lusinia it should have been Liam's mission. Maybe. Liam and the Lusinia mission probably would have been the two best ones to show off for a demo...and the only weakness the Liam mission would have is it would have risked pissing off the "MCU sucks because humor is bad" crowd. That's why I didn't pick it.😋
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 4:26:41 GMT
Actually what I think about it instead of Lusinia it should have been Liam's mission. Maybe. Liam and the Lusinia mission probably would have been the two best ones to show off for a demo...and the only weakness the Liam mission would have is it would have risked pissing off the "MCU sucks because humor is bad" crowd. That's why I didn't pick it.😋 smart.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 19, 2017 4:35:16 GMT
I don't think the trial helped, obviously; but it wasn't the real problem. BioWare left the door open for trolls when they released an unfinished, technically flawed game. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and MEA was not ready for release. Even now, playing 1.10, it's not ready for release. There are numerous bugs and myriad quality-of-life issues with this game. That is the mistake. The demo merely exposed these issues a week and a half earlier.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 4:46:05 GMT
I don't think the trial helped, obviously; but it wasn't the real problem. BioWare left the door open for trolls when they released an unfinished, technically flawed game. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and MEA was not ready for release. Even now, playing 1.10, it's not ready for release. There are numerous bugs and myriad quality-of-life issues with this game. That is the mistake. The demo merely exposed these issues a week and a half earlier. True but I think the trial was a contributing factor of that issue and perhaps the biggest contributing factor to that issue considering it was the FIRST (and only for some people) impression of the game.
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Post by Sondergaard on Sept 19, 2017 6:19:47 GMT
I don't think the trial helped, obviously; but it wasn't the real problem. BioWare left the door open for trolls when they released an unfinished, technically flawed game. You only get one chance to make a first impression, and MEA was not ready for release. Even now, playing 1.10, it's not ready for release. There are numerous bugs and myriad quality-of-life issues with this game. That is the mistake. The demo merely exposed these issues a week and a half earlier. True but I think the trial was a contributing factor of that issue and perhaps the biggest contributing factor to that issue considering it was the FIRST (and only for some people) impression of the game. So EA should have withheld information about the quality of the game in the hope people would buy it anyway? A lie by omission is still a lie.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 6:26:11 GMT
True but I think the trial was a contributing factor of that issue and perhaps the biggest contributing factor to that issue considering it was the FIRST (and only for some people) impression of the game. So EA should have withheld information about the quality of the game in the hope people would buy it anyway? A lie by omission is still a lie. How the hell did you get that from the post I made? This is not about lying but about putting your best foot forward, since the idea behind releasing the trial in the first place was one of marketing. to give an accurate portryal of the game's strengths in order to successfully build up hype and have people buy the game to then judge the final product for themselves. And intentionally sabataging your own efforts to do so by hamstringing your players, something which often annoys gamers in the first place, is not the best way to go. At the end of the day even if they did put out more specific story missions rather then a random ten hour trial we still likely would have been able to judge the game's qualities. The game and a lot of its problems, animations and bugs, would still be there. But the game's strengths would have been better showcased...like its strong RP, character, and story moments.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 19, 2017 6:51:27 GMT
EA Access is a subscription-based money-making wheeze that has nothing in particular, to do with individual EA release titles. It's incumbent on each studio to have their game ready for the trial launch-date. I don't think studios get to choose whether their game participates in EA Access.
There's evidence to suggest that weak or mediocre demos harm a game's sales, so EA must rationalise that that EA Access sales will usually offset that.
Sure, the marketing was a car crash, but trying to sell a game that wasn't ready was surely the bigger issue.
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Post by Pearl on Sept 19, 2017 7:19:49 GMT
"was it a mistake to give consumers a chance to see how shitty and unfinished our product was before we actually took their money"
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2017 7:20:52 GMT
"was it a mistake to give consumers a chance to see how shitty and unfinished our product was before we actually took their money" *sigh*
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 19, 2017 7:36:06 GMT
I can't tell - I've not tried it. They say it was a curated piece, trying to draw in and convince buyers it'd be better than it was. They also say it revealed the shitty launch quality of the game.
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