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🚀🥃🏴☠
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Post by Scathane on Sept 19, 2017 8:30:10 GMT
They also said artificial sweeteners were safe, WMDs were in Iraq and Anna Nicole married for love...
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Post by Sondergaard on Sept 19, 2017 11:46:19 GMT
"was it a mistake to give consumers a chance to see how shitty and unfinished our product was before we actually took their money" Weird thing is, I actually bought the game on the strength of the demo. I knew the animations were toss but I don't buy a Bioware game for the pretty pictures. I genuinely thought the story and characters would get better once I got into the it. So, it actually worked on me, much to my dismay. Luckily I bought a physical copy on a sale and was able to sell the disc back. Only lost about £5. Result.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 19, 2017 12:00:03 GMT
I am not sure, I know two people that were not going to buy the game buy it because of that demo. The way I look at it the way the review embargo worked was a bigger problem for there were different groups that had access to different levels of content so reviews could go all over the place.
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Post by abaris on Sept 19, 2017 14:04:25 GMT
Of course it was a mistake. Most of all because they didn't allow game critics and magazines to have their review copy but opened up the whole upatched glory to the public at large. That was inviting the meme army to have their all out assault.
For me, and reading through the thread, quite a few others, animations weren't on the top of the to do list, but it certainly had some influence on the gamer community at large.
A shitty marketing ploy to promote Origin Access. One wonders who waved this strategy through and if they are still employed. It was a poisonoous move in this day and age where everyone can have their youtube channel.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 14:54:12 GMT
No matter what Bioware did, the game never really had a snowball's chance because it was being released into a slew of old "fans" that were already dead set on rejecting it. They had made it abundantly clear that they didn't like the premise of going to a different galaxy and nothing short of a rewrite of ME3's ending was going to satisfy them long before the game was released. Many of them were in the media and had large followings. When the base premise is disliked and widely reported for so long before release, it is pretty much inevitable that the reviews will not be as positive as when the premise itself is liked. When people start something with the idea already in their head that they are probably not going to be impressed by it... they usually aren't. The "wow" factor just doesn't get a chance.
There were people on the old BSN who were sayings long before release that the game would have to be pretty much perfect to get a good reception... to overcome all the negativity already there at that point. Every previewer would have to have been absolutely blown away and making stellar reports. They weren't. The game wasn't perfect. How imperfect really doesn't matter. Only "perfect" would have made a difference.
I'm also convinced that some people who got the demo did so just so they could "race" to the internet with their memes pulling the game apart. So, OP, I think in this setting the free trial was a mistake. Knowing that the game wasn't perfect and that there was a crowd of people just itching to pull it apart, they should have possible just gone with a straight full release... preferably six months after they actually did release it and in a far more polished state (but I just don't think EA was giving them that option).
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Post by Sondergaard on Sept 19, 2017 16:06:48 GMT
No matter what Bioware did, the game never really had a snowball's chance because it was being released into a slew of old "fans" that were already dead set on rejecting it. They had made it abundantly clear that they didn't like the premise of going to a different galaxy and nothing short of a rewrite of ME3's ending was going to satisfy them long before the game was released. Many of them were in the media and had large followings. When the base premise is disliked and widely reported for so long before release, it is pretty much inevitable that the reviews will not be as positive as when the premise itself is liked. When people start something with the idea already in their head that they are probably not going to be impressed by it... they usually aren't. The "wow" factor just doesn't get a chance. There were people on the old BSN who were sayings long before release that the game would have to be pretty much perfect to get a good reception... to overcome all the negativity already there at that point. Every previewer would have to have been absolutely blown away and making stellar reports. They weren't. The game wasn't perfect. How imperfect really doesn't matter. Only "perfect" would have made a difference. I'm also convinced that some people who got the demo did so just so they could "race" to the internet with their memes pulling the game apart. So, OP, I think in this setting the free trial was a mistake. Knowing that the game wasn't perfect and that there was a crowd of people just itching to pull it apart, they should have possible just gone with a straight full release... preferably six months after they actually did release it and in a far more polished state (but I just don't think EA was giving them that option). Here we go again. What a load of shit.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 19, 2017 16:12:55 GMT
An actual argument there would be nice.
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Post by abaris on Sept 19, 2017 16:33:12 GMT
An actual argument there would be nice. People racing to pull a Bioware game apart? Maybe I'm fresh out of tinfoil, but this is a bit far fetched. Even more so, if you observe the releases of other companies. Larian just release Divinity 2 and there's nothing of that sort on the internet. Their own site is very civil and helpful. Same as with previous Obsidian releases. As opposed to some people I don't believe in the Bilderbergers attacking Bioware for a living. Without reason, that is.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 19, 2017 16:47:11 GMT
Of course the main problem here, and the frustrating thing is I am unsure how to fix it. EA was driven by very smart marketing decisions, but it backfired dramatically. So other than the idea that they should 'get gud' I have no other advice to offer. What says you BSN? To answer the main question "Was the trial a mistake?" - yes, absolutely it was. The game was not polished and, while technically playable, not up to the usual quality you'd find in a BioWare game at release. By allowing early access to a game that was already not in a presentably "finished" state you allowed the game's "hype" narrative to get away from you and get hijacked by a bunch of YouTubers with zero enthusiasm for the franchise that would gladly overemphasize (close-up shots, slow motion video, etc) the game's initial superficial shortcomings to boost likes and feed their Patreon profile. What it meant is those potentially interested in buying the game near launch lost interest and moved on. If BioWare/EA wanted to provide a trial that would have boosted hype and ramped up interest in the game, they should have made a free demo available on XBox, PS4, and Origins that would allow someone to play the game through Habitat 7 right up until the point where Alec Ryder transfers the helmet to Scott/Sara and you are just about to wake up on the Hyperion. In this case, it would have allowed players to experience the premise of the game along with the jump jet and revamped combat while keeping them on a linear narrative track. The mission is tight, fun, and focused in terms of a clear objective but allows you to explore within the map. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that EA just wanted the thing out and over with and wasn't really concerned with the legacy of the game as much as the time it was released being able to provide needed revenue (4Q 2016) and cover the cost and marketing of the game. No one concerned with a game's legacy or marketability allows the game to get previewed in an unfinished graphical state like that unless they projected the EA Access dollars it would generate would be enough to boost the subscription service in the process while believing that, despite potential comments about what players saw, that pre-orders would remain relatively constant. In the end, like what has been lawfully disclosed to shareholders during the investor meetings, the game was a significant contributor in driving revenue from Q4 2016 through Q1 2017 and most likely ended up profitable but, in EA trying to squeeze whatever dollar they could upfront from the game, they effectively paralyzed the game post-launch so there was no momentum for SP DLC nor immediate sequel.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 16:49:41 GMT
No matter what Bioware did, the game never really had a snowball's chance because it was being released into a slew of old "fans" that were already dead set on rejecting it. They had made it abundantly clear that they didn't like the premise of going to a different galaxy and nothing short of a rewrite of ME3's ending was going to satisfy them long before the game was released. Many of them were in the media and had large followings. When the base premise is disliked and widely reported for so long before release, it is pretty much inevitable that the reviews will not be as positive as when the premise itself is liked. When people start something with the idea already in their head that they are probably not going to be impressed by it... they usually aren't. The "wow" factor just doesn't get a chance. There were people on the old BSN who were sayings long before release that the game would have to be pretty much perfect to get a good reception... to overcome all the negativity already there at that point. Every previewer would have to have been absolutely blown away and making stellar reports. They weren't. The game wasn't perfect. How imperfect really doesn't matter. Only "perfect" would have made a difference. I'm also convinced that some people who got the demo did so just so they could "race" to the internet with their memes pulling the game apart. So, OP, I think in this setting the free trial was a mistake. Knowing that the game wasn't perfect and that there was a crowd of people just itching to pull it apart, they should have possible just gone with a straight full release... preferably six months after they actually did release it and in a far more polished state (but I just don't think EA was giving them that option). Here we go again. What a load of shit. Which of the following is it exactly that you're refuting. 1) That people were saying that the game had to be perfect to overcome the bad feelings ME3 left behind 2) That people were arguing against the premise of leaving the galaxy before the game was released 3) That people who try something believing that they probably won't like it are more likely to find things that they don't like about it ... as for the last... Have to ever tried to convince a child to try something for the first time that a friend of theirs has already told them they probably won't like? I know the media doesn't want to take any "blame" for what happened... but to deny any part in it, they would have to say that they have absolutely no influence on their followers. The game had a strong likelihood of failing to "wow" the public long, long before ti was released... because the premise it was being based on was trashed long before the game was released.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 19, 2017 16:56:13 GMT
An actual argument there would be nice. People racing to pull a Bioware game apart? Maybe I'm fresh out of tinfoil, but this is a bit far fetched. Even more so, if you observe the releases of other companies. Larian just release Divinity 2 and there's nothing of that sort on the internet. Their own site is very civil and helpful. Same as with previous Obsidian releases. As opposed to some people I don't believe in the Bilderbergers attacking Bioware for a living. Without reason, that is. Oh, there were a bunch of people willing to tear the game apart since it was first launched. A lot I suspect were people who were still angry about the ME3 endings.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 19, 2017 17:21:17 GMT
Oh my, are we back to blaming players again. People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. This whole the game was sabotaged, it never had a chance, etc is just trying to deflect attention away from the truth.
Were there people rooting for the game to fail, sure. Did these people make up the majority of people who didn't like the game, no. The game still seems to have had a good launch as far as sales, it just seems that the sales didn't sustain themselves the way EA had hoped and the amount of people still playing the SP and MP weren't where they liked so they stopped making content for the game because the market wasn't there.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Sept 19, 2017 17:29:47 GMT
An actual argument there would be nice. People racing to pull a Bioware game apart? Maybe I'm fresh out of tinfoil, but this is a bit far fetched. Even more so, if you observe the releases of other companies. Larian just release Divinity 2 and there's nothing of that sort on the internet. Their own site is very civil and helpful. Same as with previous Obsidian releases. As opposed to some people I don't believe in the Bilderbergers attacking Bioware for a living. Without reason, that is. Of course not, because the Bilderbergers are just a smokescreen. The Illuminati and the gray aliens are the ones really behind the conspiracy against Bioware.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 17:36:44 GMT
An actual argument there would be nice. People racing to pull a Bioware game apart? Maybe I'm fresh out of tinfoil, but this is a bit far fetched. Even more so, if you observe the releases of other companies. Larian just release Divinity 2 and there's nothing of that sort on the internet. Their own site is very civil and helpful. Same as with previous Obsidian releases. As opposed to some people I don't believe in the Bilderbergers attacking Bioware for a living. Without reason, that is. ...without reason that is... Your statement basically proves my point about this being a somewhat unique thing regarding this particular Mass Effect release. People have felt for some time that they have a reason to attack Bioware... Mass Effect specifically because they still hold a grudge over the ME3 endings... that simple. They have been lobbying for 5 years to see those endings changed and nothing short of that will placate them. Anything else that Bioware comes up with will be shot down by them. They knew before they bought into the trial that ME:A`s premise would not satisfy them. They did not buy the trial hoping that it somehow would... they bought the trial to prove that it would not... and then raced, yes raced... to tell the rest of the world about it. That is why the meme count on on the facial animations exploded so quickly. Some even said as much on the old BSN... that they had it in for Bioware... and I believe them. That simple.
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 19, 2017 18:01:30 GMT
People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. Yep, this was me. Preordered MEA, was super excited to play it, had no beefs with Bioware about ME3 or anything else (on the contrary, I love Bioware games and ME3 in particular is my favorite game of all time), was even engaged through my first SP playthrough and first few weeks of MP... But once the novelty wore off I started to realize/accept how mediocre the game really is. Maybe not positively bad, but not very good either. I didn't play the trial, but there wasn't anything in the first 10 hours that would have discouraged me from buying MEA if I had played the trial. Can't speak for anyone else, but from my own experience its hard to believe that the trial can be substantively blamed for MEA's underwhelming critical/financial/etc. performance. The lackluster characters/plot/world/etc., the borderline broken state of the game at release, and the impotent nerd-rage of anti-SJW crybabies, make for a more than sufficient explanation so far as I can tell.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 19, 2017 18:27:50 GMT
People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. Yep, this was me. Preordered MEA, was super excited to play it, had no beefs with Bioware about ME3 or anything else (on the contrary, I love Bioware games and ME3 in particular is my favorite game of all time), was even engaged through my first SP playthrough and first few weeks of MP... But once the novelty wore off I started to realize/accept how mediocre the game really is. That's an awfully long time before realizing that you think a game is mediocre, isn't it?
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Post by smilesja on Sept 19, 2017 18:30:57 GMT
Oh my, are we back to blaming players again. People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. This whole the game was sabotaged, it never had a chance, etc is just trying to deflect attention away from the truth. Were there people rooting for the game to fail, sure. Did these people make up the majority of people who didn't like the game, no. The game still seems to have had a good launch as far as sales, it just seems that the sales didn't sustain themselves the way EA had hoped and the amount of people still playing the SP and MP weren't where they liked so they stopped making content for the game because the market wasn't there. Who's blaming the players? They're just pointing out a bunch of people didn't like the game before it even came out.
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Post by cypherj on Sept 19, 2017 18:42:22 GMT
Oh my, are we back to blaming players again. People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. This whole the game was sabotaged, it never had a chance, etc is just trying to deflect attention away from the truth. Were there people rooting for the game to fail, sure. Did these people make up the majority of people who didn't like the game, no. The game still seems to have had a good launch as far as sales, it just seems that the sales didn't sustain themselves the way EA had hoped and the amount of people still playing the SP and MP weren't where they liked so they stopped making content for the game because the market wasn't there. Who's blaming the players? They're just pointing out a bunch of people didn't like the game before it even came out. No, they're talking about people playing the trial with agendas, and machinations to bring the game down.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 19, 2017 18:45:13 GMT
Who's blaming the players? They're just pointing out a bunch of people didn't like the game before it even came out. No, they're talking about people playing the trial with agendas, and machinations to bring the game down. And there were people who did that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2017 18:48:28 GMT
People need to come to grips with the fact that there were a lot of people who bought the game and just didn't like it. No agendas, no preconceived notions, people that just bought the game and didn't like it so they put it aside. Yep, this was me. Preordered MEA, was super excited to play it, had no beefs with Bioware about ME3 or anything else (on the contrary, I love Bioware games and ME3 in particular is my favorite game of all time), was even engaged through my first SP playthrough and first few weeks of MP... But once the novelty wore off I started to realize/accept how mediocre the game really is. Maybe not positively bad, but not very good either. I didn't play the trial, but there wasn't anything in the first 10 hours that would have discouraged me from buying MEA if I had played the trial. Can't speak for anyone else, but from my own experience its hard to believe that the trial can be substantively blamed for MEA's underwhelming critical/financial/etc. performance. The lackluster characters/plot/world/etc., the borderline broken state of the game at release, and the impotent nerd-rage of anti-SJW crybabies, make for a more than sufficient explanation so far as I can tell. ... and I have never said that there were not people who bought the game and just did not like it. Saying that there were a number of people who bought the game expecting to dislike it is not denying that there would also be people who bought the game expecting to like it and who wound up not liking it. So, I would say that I have come to grips with that fact. Saying that the story would have had a much better chance of wowing more people had there not been so many people who objected to the very premise of the story months prior to the release of the game is just acknowledging that the odds were affected ahead of time by negative publicity. This is not a big conspiracy theory (although some people want to introduce that straw man so they can shoot down the argument). People put all that effort into shooting down the premise before release... and now just they want to deny that their complaints had any impact. That makes no sense. They had an impact. That impact had some consequences... one of which was that the game had to be exceptional just to be good... to overcome what had gone before. It was not. It was mixed... appealed to some and not others... and was trashed worse than it deserved. Notice... I am saying that it still deserved some criticism. I am still saying that there are people who just do not like it. People who do not like it also need to come to grips with the fact that there are also a number of reasonable and intelligent who do like it.
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 19, 2017 18:53:25 GMT
Yep, this was me. Preordered MEA, was super excited to play it, had no beefs with Bioware about ME3 or anything else (on the contrary, I love Bioware games and ME3 in particular is my favorite game of all time), was even engaged through my first SP playthrough and first few weeks of MP... But once the novelty wore off I started to realize/accept how mediocre the game really is. That's an awfully long time before realizing that you think a game is mediocre, isn't it? Um, no, not really. A minimal (~50% or so completion) SP playthrough took maybe like 5 days or something? And I played MP off and on over the course of a few weeks. Maybe it was spread out over a longer time period, but in terms of time logged in the game, it was not very long at all. I don't tend to form judgments of games/books/movies that I'm taking seriously on the first go-around, since its easy to miss alot. Its the 2nd run that usually cements my judgment either way, and that's exactly what happened here: I could barely make it halfway through a second SP playthrough.
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Post by q5tyhj on Sept 19, 2017 18:54:50 GMT
Yep, this was me. Preordered MEA, was super excited to play it, had no beefs with Bioware about ME3 or anything else (on the contrary, I love Bioware games and ME3 in particular is my favorite game of all time), was even engaged through my first SP playthrough and first few weeks of MP... But once the novelty wore off I started to realize/accept how mediocre the game really is. Maybe not positively bad, but not very good either. I didn't play the trial, but there wasn't anything in the first 10 hours that would have discouraged me from buying MEA if I had played the trial. Can't speak for anyone else, but from my own experience its hard to believe that the trial can be substantively blamed for MEA's underwhelming critical/financial/etc. performance. The lackluster characters/plot/world/etc., the borderline broken state of the game at release, and the impotent nerd-rage of anti-SJW crybabies, make for a more than sufficient explanation so far as I can tell. ... and I have never said that there were not people who bought the game and just did not like it. Saying that there were a number of people who bought the game expecting to dislike it is not denying that there would also be people who bought the game expecting to like it and who wound up not liking it. So, I would say that I have come to grips with that fact. Saying that the story would have had a much better chance of wowing more people had there not been so many people who objected to the very premise of the story months prior to the release of the game is just acknowledging that the odds were affected ahead of time by negative publicity. This is not a big conspiracy theory (although some people want to introduce that straw man so they can shoot down the argument). People put all that effort into shooting down the premise before release... and now just they want to deny that their complaints had any impact. That makes no sense. They had an impact. That impact had some consequences... one of which was that the game had to be exceptional just to be good... to overcome what had gone before. It wasn`t. It was mixed... appealed to some and not others... and was trashed worse than it deserved. Notice... I am saying that it still deserved some criticism. I am still saying that there are people who just do not like it. People who do not like need to come to grips with the fact that there are also a number of reasonable and intelligent who do like it. Not sure why you've quoted my post here, it does not appear that you're responding to me, but to the post I had quoted.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Sept 19, 2017 19:14:40 GMT
Yes.
Playing the trial now, I have seen some Omega dance moves once or twice, but they were just quick flashes - perhaps fixed in patches (my trial is v1.10).
The facial animations are not good. But, they aren't so terrible at some points that you want to take your eye out with a fork.
Nothing I've encountered in this patched game has been OMG THIS IS BROKEN. There have been many substandard things, but were the game released closer to this patched state, much of the wind would have been taken away from the critics and the criticisms of the game would have been focused on a smaller laundry list of necessary patches from this point. Like Asari. Maybe a better base head model for Male Turians that doesn't remove most of their breathing apparatus from their face. But it would have been more nitpicking, like these, and not fodder for the lulz crowd FTW YouTube brigade.
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cypherj
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Sept 19, 2017 19:22:40 GMT
No, they're talking about people playing the trial with agendas, and machinations to bring the game down. And there were people who did that. I said that there were people who wanted the game to fail, but they weren't the reason it did.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 19, 2017 19:28:14 GMT
And there were people who did that. I said that there were people who wanted the game to fail, but they weren't the reason it did. And I don't think people blaming those gamers. It's just that Andromeda had many factors against it and that was one of them.
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