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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 3:42:34 GMT
Isn't that a wash anyway? If you're triggered by TW3 you'll be triggered by some of the ME:A scenes too. TW3 had more nudity. But then again, the target audience for TW3 were adult males. Not saying that is a bad thing, but there is a reason why TW3 is so well respected in the industry. amazing games that sell well are respected, news at 11
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2017 3:51:00 GMT
I agree with you in that aspect but he's more comparing RP and character writing as opposed to over all story elements. Comparing the story directly is kinda hard, where as comparing the 2 mentioned isn't. It all still all boils down to opinion... Ah well it that case it is easier to RP in Andromeda. You aren't set to a specific character. Geralt is set in stone. You can alter his personality a tad but not much. I feel exactly the opposite. Ryder is every bit the set protagonist that Geralt is. The difference is that Geralt gets to actually make judgments and take meaningful action, to have real interaction with his world. There are far too many examples to even name, since they're found at every turn. Ryder, on the other hand, gets 2 flavors of friendly, passive or submissive 99% of the time. I enjoy MEA, but this is my single greatest disappointment with it. I don't find it to offer any real RP opportunities. Every PT is essentially the same thing, regardless of dialogue and "moral" choices.
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Post by majesticjazz on Sept 22, 2017 3:51:21 GMT
TW3 had more nudity. But then again, the target audience for TW3 were adult males. Not saying that is a bad thing, but there is a reason why TW3 is so well respected in the industry. amazing games that sell well are respected, news at 11 The 11 olock news says that gamers were satisfied with how CDPR also handled DLC. More to follow after the break....
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 3:57:17 GMT
RPing is the measure of how much control you have of a player Character during a game. As such a characters backstory does not enter into.it. and you.have far more control of Ryder then Geralt. I really believe you're trolling me at this point or you've never played TW3. When it comes to having more control Geralt is by FAR superior in that regard. There are sooooo many more ways that Geralt can be played than Ryder could ever hope to be. Im no fanboy but come on...The amount of choices (Good, Bad or Neutral) makes the over all RPing aspect far better. And since when has a back story never been apart of RPing? You're kidding right? I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2017 4:00:43 GMT
I really believe you're trolling me at this point or you've never played TW3. When it comes to having more control Geralt is by FAR superior in that regard. There are sooooo many more ways that Geralt can be played than Ryder could ever hope to be. Im no fanboy but come on...The amount of choices (Good, Bad or Neutral) makes the over all RPing aspect far better. And since when has a back story never been apart of RPing? You're kidding right? I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market. I respect your opinion, or more importantly your right to it. That said, I cannot fathom how you could possibly feel this way. The player is given quite a bit of agency in TW3; way more than we are given in MEA, for instance. It's like we're discussing versions of these games from an alternate dimension.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 4:02:53 GMT
I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market. I respect your opinion, or more importantly your right to it. That said, I cannot fathom how you could possibly feel this way. The player is given quite a bit of agency in TW3; way more than we are given in MEA, for instance. It's like we're discussing versions of these games from an alternate dimension. i just rarely feel it. Geralt is Geralt. Its quite hard to quantify how many individual Ryders you can make.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:03:42 GMT
I really believe you're trolling me at this point or you've never played TW3. When it comes to having more control Geralt is by FAR superior in that regard. There are sooooo many more ways that Geralt can be played than Ryder could ever hope to be. Im no fanboy but come on...The amount of choices (Good, Bad or Neutral) makes the over all RPing aspect far better. And since when has a back story never been apart of RPing? You're kidding right? I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market. not every RPG needs to be a blank slate build your own Mary Sue
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:05:50 GMT
I respect your opinion, or more importantly your right to it. That said, I cannot fathom how you could possibly feel this way. The player is given quite a bit of agency in TW3; way more than we are given in MEA, for instance. It's like we're discussing versions of these games from an alternate dimension. i just rarely feel it. Geralt is Geralt. Its quite hard to quantify how many individual Ryders you can make. you can make the smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should, or you can make a smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 4:05:55 GMT
I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market. not every RPG needs to be a blank slate build your own Mary Sue how is this post relevant to mine?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 4:12:22 GMT
I respect your opinion, or more importantly your right to it. That said, I cannot fathom how you could possibly feel this way. The player is given quite a bit of agency in TW3; way more than we are given in MEA, for instance. It's like we're discussing versions of these games from an alternate dimension. i just rarely feel it. Geralt is Geralt. Its quite hard to quantify how many individual Ryders you can make. Individual how? You need to explain this further for me. With Ryder you have 4 supposed options... -Emotional -Logical -Casual -Professional ...none of these having any different impact on any decision in the game. Geralt has anywhere from 2 to 4 different decisions to make that will impact the game at that moment and can easily have far reaching consequences not only for you but also the npc you're dealing with and others down the line. Keira Metz is a prime example of this.
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:13:25 GMT
not every RPG needs to be a blank slate build your own Mary Sue how is this post relevant to mine? because TW3 is still an RPG, and a damn fine one at that.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Sept 22, 2017 4:21:21 GMT
I'm not trolling and yes I've played TW 3. Twice. Honestly i just might forgivr most of its other flaws but the mere fact is they've sold it as the wrong genre. Great game. Horrible RPG. Probably the worse on the market. not every RPG needs to be a blank slate build your own Mary Sue Yeah, shut up and accept the mary sue that CDPR gave you!
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:23:22 GMT
not every RPG needs to be a blank slate build your own Mary Sue Yeah, shut up and accept the mary sue that CDPR gave you! I mean, Ciri isn't playable THAT much
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Post by Steelcan on Sept 22, 2017 4:31:57 GMT
People who think Geralt is a Mary Sue seem to forget that its perfectly possible to end the game with no friends or loved ones left and spend the rest of his life walking the path alone.
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Post by suikoden on Sept 22, 2017 5:14:48 GMT
*sci-fi sitcom you mean. There’s nothing epic about Andromeda. At least what you could gather by skimming through YouTube videos... Oh, does it revert from being a sitcom after the first ten hours? No? Alright then. It’s called a trial for a reason. Do you buy every car you test drive so you can gather a complete opinion about it?
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 22, 2017 5:22:46 GMT
At least what you could gather by skimming through YouTube videos... Oh, does it revert from being a sitcom after the first ten hours? No? Alright then. It’s called a trial for a reason. Do you buy every car you test drive so you can gather a complete opinion about it? You wouldn't know if it did or not so you're opinion on the game is meaningless...
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2017 5:41:32 GMT
At least what you could gather by skimming through YouTube videos... Oh, does it revert from being a sitcom after the first ten hours? No? Alright then. It’s called a trial for a reason. Do you buy every car you test drive so you can gather a complete opinion about it? It really does get significantly better after those first 10 hours. I don't say that to sell you on it, though; nor to claim it's problem free from then onward. I have no idea how or why they ended up backloading the game's quality content. Badly managed dev cycle sums it up, I imagine.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 5:46:43 GMT
i just rarely feel it. Geralt is Geralt. Its quite hard to quantify how many individual Ryders you can make. you can make the smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should, or you can make a smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should Ryder can be : Emotional, Casual, logical, professional. Paragon or Renegade (for lack of a better term) Pro or anti initiative. Good or bad relationship with their father. Or pro or anti crew. Geralt is Geralt is Geralt. Even if you except the idea that you can be a good Geralt or a bad Geralt or a neutral Geralt (and i don't) that is still only three options versus 12 distinct Ryders. And that's not counting all the mixing and matching or other little flavor choices you have throughout the game. As for the moral choices each character gets...yes that's a part of RPing...but its the least important part of RPing to me. Especially as a writer who uses these games to practice his craft. Most decisions we face in our.lives aren't moral choices but personality ones. Do i be a dick? Do i be sarcastic? Do i be diplomatic or professional?
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 22, 2017 5:47:41 GMT
Oh, does it revert from being a sitcom after the first ten hours? No? Alright then. It’s called a trial for a reason. Do you buy every car you test drive so you can gather a complete opinion about it? It really does get significantly better after those first 10 hours. I don't say that to sell you on it, though; nor to claim it's problem free from then onward. I have no idea how or why they backloaded the game's quality content. The game is $20 now, surely Suikoden can make that kind of investment. If it turns out to be 40-50 hours lost, I don't see how it should be an issue for them. Considering the amount of hours they've devoted to talking about a game they didn't like or finish it's not like they value their time to begin with...
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2017 5:52:33 GMT
It really does get significantly better after those first 10 hours. I don't say that to sell you on it, though; nor to claim it's problem free from then onward. I have no idea how or why they backloaded the game's quality content. The game is $20 now, surely Suikoden can make that kind of investment. If it turns out to be 40-50 hours lost, I don't see how it should be an issue for them. Considering the amount of hours they've devoted to talking about a game they didn't like or finish it's not like they value their time to begin with... Its $20 now? I need to tell a friend. He said he'd likely get it, at some point. Now might be the time.
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Post by Element Zero on Sept 22, 2017 6:00:26 GMT
you can make the smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should, or you can make a smart mouthing Ryder who doesn't take his/her charge as seriously as they should Ryder can be : Emotional, Casual, logical, professional. Paragon or Renegade (for lack of a better term) Pro or anti initiative. Good or bad relationship with their father. Or pro or anti crew. Geralt is Geralt is Geralt. Even if you except the idea that you can be a good Geralt or a bad Geralt or a neutral Geralt (and i don't) that is still only three options versus 12 distinct Ryders. And that's not counting all the mixing and matching or other little flavor choices you have throughout the game. As for the moral choices each character gets...yes that's a part of RPing...but its the least important part of RPing to me. Especially as a writer who uses these games to practice his craft. Most decisions we face in our.lives aren't moral choices but personality ones. Do i be a dick? Do i be sarcastic? Do i be diplomatic or professional? I don't see Ryder getting any of the options you list. In my experience, it's "goofy" vs "extra goofy", with a side of "passive" vs "doormat". Many of us don't play these games, especially Mass Effect, in order to decide how friendly to be with NPCs. We want to make meaningful decisions, large and small, that shape the setting. The writers seemed to actively avoid the type of decisions and consequences that made the OT so unique and beloved. I'm not sure if they were intimidated by the myriad possible permutations. Maybe they didn't want to have to write thousands of lines of "if X, then Y" dialogue that many will never experience. Maybe they feared the end result of ME3: unrealized fan expectations as to decisions-> consequences. Whatever the reason, it left the game bereft of that special Mass Effect quality.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 6:05:23 GMT
Oh, does it revert from being a sitcom after the first ten hours? No? Alright then. It’s called a trial for a reason. Do you buy every car you test drive so you can gather a complete opinion about it? It really does get significantly better after those first 10 hours. I don't say that to sell you on it, though; nor to claim it's problem free from then onward. I have no idea how or why they ended up backloading the game's quality content. Badly managed dev cycle sums it up, I imagine. to be fair though most RPGs have really weak...let's say...first ten percent of their gameplay. Only real exceptions are DA 2 and ME 3.
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Post by samhain444 on Sept 22, 2017 6:05:46 GMT
The game is $20 now, surely Suikoden can make that kind of investment. If it turns out to be 40-50 hours lost, I don't see how it should be an issue for them. Considering the amount of hours they've devoted to talking about a game they didn't like or finish it's not like they value their time to begin with... Its $20 now? I need to tell a friend. He said he'd likely get it, at some point. Now might be the time. Yeah, check out Amazon...i think even for the Deluxe
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Post by smilesja on Sept 22, 2017 6:06:46 GMT
Yeah, shut up and accept the mary sue that CDPR gave you! I mean, Ciri isn't playable THAT much They made it up by giving you Geralt though!
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Post by colfoley on Sept 22, 2017 6:07:05 GMT
Ryder can be : Emotional, Casual, logical, professional. Paragon or Renegade (for lack of a better term) Pro or anti initiative. Good or bad relationship with their father. Or pro or anti crew. Geralt is Geralt is Geralt. Even if you except the idea that you can be a good Geralt or a bad Geralt or a neutral Geralt (and i don't) that is still only three options versus 12 distinct Ryders. And that's not counting all the mixing and matching or other little flavor choices you have throughout the game. As for the moral choices each character gets...yes that's a part of RPing...but its the least important part of RPing to me. Especially as a writer who uses these games to practice his craft. Most decisions we face in our.lives aren't moral choices but personality ones. Do i be a dick? Do i be sarcastic? Do i be diplomatic or professional? I don't see Ryder getting any of the options you list. In my experience, it's "goofy" vs "extra goofy", with a side of "passive" vs "doormat". Many of us don't play these games, especially Mass Effect, in order to decide how friendly to be with NPCs. We want to make meaningful decisions, large and small, that shape the setting. The writers seemed to actively avoid the type of decisions and consequences that made the OT so unique and beloved. I'm not sure if they were intimidated by the myriad possible permutations. Maybe they didn't want to have to write thousands of lines of "if X, then Y" dialogue that many will never experience. Maybe they feared the end result of ME3: unrealized fan expectations as to decisions-> consequences. Whatever the reason, it left the game bereft of that special Mass Effect quality. another thing we disagree on.
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