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Post by colfoley on Oct 24, 2017 0:18:43 GMT
So I watched everything wrong with ME 1...and well this guy strikes me as an 'RPG purist'...which nothing inherently wrong with that but he brought up, in both his ME 1 and ME 2 video the amount of weapons and armor customization in the game...and then the lack. But then in ME 1 I found they were false choices. The guns essentially looked the same, they functioned the same in ME 1, and while they were very few of them in ME 2, they had very different functions and stats to where it often came down to what you were looking for in each weapon. And granted also his crack at the beginning of the video about choices not mattering...ok. I just am growing more convinced that what the 'general public' and what I want from my RPGs are very different things.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Oct 24, 2017 1:06:13 GMT
What makes a comedy oriented channel the "General Public" again? Do I feel some other hidden point within your post there?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2017 1:47:58 GMT
Meh, I'd rather watch Mr. BTongue do a TUN on MEA. Gaming sins are a bunch of tools.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 24, 2017 5:19:29 GMT
So I watched everything wrong with ME 1...and well this guy strikes me as an 'RPG purist'...which nothing inherently wrong with that but he brought up, in both his ME 1 and ME 2 video the amount of weapons and armor customization in the game...and then the lack. But then in ME 1 I found they were false choices. The guns essentially looked the same, they functioned the same in ME 1, and while they were very few of them in ME 2, they had very different functions and stats to where it often came down to what you were looking for in each weapon. And granted also his crack at the beginning of the video about choices not mattering...ok. I just am growing more convinced that what the 'general public' and what I want from my RPGs are very different things. Did you saw the part with the Rachni when he said "Zoidberg!"?
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Post by colfoley on Oct 24, 2017 5:20:06 GMT
So I watched everything wrong with ME 1...and well this guy strikes me as an 'RPG purist'...which nothing inherently wrong with that but he brought up, in both his ME 1 and ME 2 video the amount of weapons and armor customization in the game...and then the lack. But then in ME 1 I found they were false choices. The guns essentially looked the same, they functioned the same in ME 1, and while they were very few of them in ME 2, they had very different functions and stats to where it often came down to what you were looking for in each weapon. And granted also his crack at the beginning of the video about choices not mattering...ok. I just am growing more convinced that what the 'general public' and what I want from my RPGs are very different things. Did you saw the part with the Rachni when he said "Zoidberg!"? I missed it...which is weird since i just watched that part.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 24, 2017 6:04:51 GMT
And moved onto the video, finally, and I am having more fun sinning the sins then watching the actual video.
Edit: God some of these sins are breaking my brain.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 6:20:24 GMT
And moved onto the video, finally, and I am having more fun sinning the sins then watching the actual video. Edit: God some of these sins are breaking my brain. Well, criticizing criticism tends to be an enjoyable sport.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 24, 2017 6:34:54 GMT
What makes a comedy oriented channel the "General Public" again? Do I feel some other hidden point within your post there? I actually missed this post, for some weird reason, and its a common running theme among a lot of the commentary I see on this board. Inclduing some of yours, when it comes to what people seem to want in their RPGs.
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Post by goishen on Oct 24, 2017 13:06:21 GMT
When Tali presents the recording, when exactly could she have obtained this? Obviously it happens after Eden Prime, but where was this geth she found, and how did she know who was even in the recording to even bother determining who to tell about it, and how did she get to the Citadel before the Normandy? The Council knew since they could recognize his voice (which in itself is shaky in terms of actual evidence), but doubtful a wandering pilgrim from an insular society would. As for Saren, where to start? Why does he need the Conduit? Noveria proves that Saren can use his connections to smuggle large numbers of geth into the port. Paying someone to do the same on the Citadel should be no major feat for a Spectre. But putting aside whether or not he can even do that, being a Spectre gives him special access to parts of the station most people wouldn't, and having Benezia at his side, along with a complement of asari commandos gives him a serious edge. Also, since the Council had their heads up their asses about him, he pretty much had free reign, until he and C'thulhu jumped the gun and assaulted Eden Prime for a mere warning beacon. But in the end, the Conduit leads to the same exact place we went to via elevator. Maybe it was simply a matter of the dev team not bothering to use new assets to create an entirely new space on the Citadel, but the fact that the Conduit basically leads to the same spot in the Presidium made everything Saren/Sovereign did a waste of time. On the other hand, it was a setup for the perfect trap: lead Shepard & Co on a wild goose chase, they find the Prothean bunker, and then destroy the Conduit when they get through, leaving them no time to get back to the station before Sovereign closes it up. But instead, they leave the door wide open with a few armed guards, even though there was no good reason to leave that pathway open. Of course, this trap relies heavily on the Council simply not believing anything Shepard says. If they truly believed a geth attack was imminent, they could have closed up the station, and fortified the area with their fleet, leaving Sovereign no choice but to either wait it out or assault them head on with no direct access. Of course, none of that matters either, because ME2/3 establish that Sovereign(I guess the catalyst?) was an idiot, because the reapers were going to be there in about 2 1/2 years anyway. I've said this a couple occasions before, but I think while DA's plots aren't perfect either, generally handle their stories' internal logic better overall than Mass Effect ever did. Well, I could argue with with you point by point, but fuck it. You're not a fan. You're somebody who likes to play the games, although I can't really see why. That's great that you do. But part of me wonders why you're even still here. Tali must've gone to a world outside of the Perseus Veil and found geth there, she went down to look for resources to bring back for her pilgrimage. She recognized that the voice on it was organic, she didn't know what in the holy hell it meant. She arrived at the Citadel mere hours before Shepard got there and arranged to sell it to the Shadow Broker. You forget about the fifteen hour window of opportunity that she has to get there. Someone, prolly Fist, let it slip that that sounded like Saren's voice. That just upped her chances of selling it for big money. This is part of the reason why she calls the entire deal off at the last minute. Yah, and shaky evidence? No, I'm thinking not. If you go ahead and commit a crime and all I did was a voice recording of you, I can pretty much guarantee a conviction. In a hundred years, who knows where the tech'll be. But as I said, you're not a fan.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 24, 2017 15:20:09 GMT
Yikes. What does it take to be a "fan" if KaiserShep doesn't make the cut?
And you didn't get to the substance. Even if we swallow Saren's geth burning bandwidth to transmit audio of Saren's every utterance to all of them everywhere in real time, how does Tali get to the Citadel faster than the Normandy?
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 16:31:48 GMT
Hah! Not a fan. I love it. I guess blind acceptance is the defining characteristic according to the BSN glossary. But then, it is short for fanatic. I refuse to accept a world where I can’t criticize the things I love.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 16:52:06 GMT
Yah, and shaky evidence? No, I'm thinking not. If you go ahead and commit a crime and all I did was a voice recording of you, I can pretty much guarantee a conviction. In a hundred years, who knows where the tech'll be. So what did you record my voice with? How do we know for certain that my voice isn't being impersonated, immediately recognizable as me, or that the audio itself wasn't altered? And lastly, who are you that you're recording me in the first place? Audio recordings aren't guaranteed to be admissible, depending on how it was obtained. Tali is an unknown, as is the equipment the data came from. Even if the Council did come to a decision against Saren, it would not be as immediate; it just is because the plot has to go forward. After all, this ain't Law & Order: Citadel. He's an elite operative of the Citadel government. They wouldn't just immediately revoke his status because the humans are just really insistent. They'd have to consider the possibility that they pulled this audio out of their asses because they're dying to nail Saren to the wall (especially Anderson, who would clearly have an agenda), and then deliberate over the evidence at hand to come to a final decision. Something to consider is cutscene knowledge. We as the players get to see everything, but Shepard only ever sees Nihilus' corpse and one scared dock worker saying his name. We never actually see Shepard and Saren interact until the Council meeting.
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Post by goishen on Oct 24, 2017 17:35:32 GMT
Yah, and shaky evidence? No, I'm thinking not. If you go ahead and commit a crime and all I did was a voice recording of you, I can pretty much guarantee a conviction. In a hundred years, who knows where the tech'll be. So what did you record my voice with? How do we know for certain that my voice isn't being impersonated, immediately recognizable as me, or that the audio itself wasn't altered? And lastly, who are you that you're recording me in the first place? Audio recordings aren't guaranteed to be admissible, depending on how it was obtained. Tali is an unknown, as is the equipment the data came from. Even if the Council did come to a decision against Saren, it would not be as immediate; it just is because the plot has to go forward. After all, this ain't Law & Order: Citadel. He's an elite operative of the Citadel government. They wouldn't just immediately revoke his status because the humans are just really insistent. They'd have to consider the possibility that they pulled this audio out of their asses because they're dying to nail Saren to the wall (especially Anderson, who would clearly have an agenda), and then deliberate over the evidence at hand to come to a final decision. Something to consider is cutscene knowledge. We as the players get to see everything, but Shepard only ever sees Nihilus' corpse and one scared dock worker saying his name. We never actually see Shepard and Saren interact until the Council meeting. Wow dude. Determinism 'till the end, huh? *sucks air through teeth* Yipe, dude. You forgot to mention about the main thrust of my argument which was that Tali had a fifteen hour head start. Oh yah, silly me. That's because you *have* no argument. You just wanna play obstructionist.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: bladefist1
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Post by bladefist on Oct 24, 2017 17:40:46 GMT
I wish he did more games. These videos were a lot of fun to watch.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 17:53:47 GMT
So what did you record my voice with? How do we know for certain that my voice isn't being impersonated, immediately recognizable as me, or that the audio itself wasn't altered? And lastly, who are you that you're recording me in the first place? Audio recordings aren't guaranteed to be admissible, depending on how it was obtained. Tali is an unknown, as is the equipment the data came from. Even if the Council did come to a decision against Saren, it would not be as immediate; it just is because the plot has to go forward. After all, this ain't Law & Order: Citadel. He's an elite operative of the Citadel government. They wouldn't just immediately revoke his status because the humans are just really insistent. They'd have to consider the possibility that they pulled this audio out of their asses because they're dying to nail Saren to the wall (especially Anderson, who would clearly have an agenda), and then deliberate over the evidence at hand to come to a final decision. Something to consider is cutscene knowledge. We as the players get to see everything, but Shepard only ever sees Nihilus' corpse and one scared dock worker saying his name. We never actually see Shepard and Saren interact until the Council meeting. Wow dude. Determinism 'till the end, huh? *sucks air through teeth* Yipe, dude. You forgot to mention about the main thrust of my argument which was that Tali had a fifteen hour head start. Oh yah, silly me. That's because you *have* no argument. You just wanna play obstructionist. Wait, so does this mean you still believe that an audio recording is automatically a guaranteed conviction. Curses, I have failed you. I bring dishonor to my house. Actually, the argument was that the entirety of Mass Effect is chock full o' plot holes and logical inconsistencies, with ME1 being used as an example, since it was the start of it all. The insolubility of its overarching plot was presented early on, but it was easy to overlook it because Sovereign's voice was cool and Vigil was fascinating. Too bad that couldn't last forever.
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 18:10:49 GMT
And granted also his crack at the beginning of the video about choices not mattering...ok. I just am growing more convinced that what the 'general public' and what I want from my RPGs are very different things. I always take a bit of issue with the choices not mattering thing. Obviously, as a program with a limited set of options, our choices are basically multiple choice in an interactive flow chart, but the illusion of choice and consequence can be meaningful if well presented. Like, take the final Mordin decision. I love that there's a point of no return established in the previous game that dooms him if I decide that the krogan shouldn't be cured in the end. Sure, there's just a couple of A or B choices that determine this in the previous games, but how they're presented can feel personal. I don't want to get into the ending, but overall the entire thing felt like it had a major personal touch, even with the awareness that a multitude of people probably have the same combination of outcomes I do.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 24, 2017 18:38:16 GMT
Yah, and shaky evidence? No, I'm thinking not. If you go ahead and commit a crime and all I did was a voice recording of you, I can pretty much guarantee a conviction. In a hundred years, who knows where the tech'll be. So what did you record my voice with? How do we know for certain that my voice isn't being impersonated, immediately recognizable as me, or that the audio itself wasn't altered? And lastly, who are you that you're recording me in the first place? Speaking of which, have you seen this?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 24, 2017 18:44:42 GMT
How do you reconcile this with Saren and Benezia's conversations in the cutscene and on Tali's recording? All the recording says is that Saren was "one step closer to the Conduit" Not what it was or how he intended to use it. From this I submit that he didn't know the answer to those questions either. He knew the "Conduit" was something important, that much is clear. Therefore, I believe that in piecing together beacon visions, he and Benezia managed to figure out that something called a Conduit was used to foil the Reapers...somehow. In learning what the Conduit is, he figured he could learn how to undo whatever it was the Protheans had done to the Citadel. That's a fairly bizarre use of language. "One step closer" isn't a typical figure of speech when someone doesn't actually know if he's heading in the right direction, or if the destination exists. He's talking like he knows that he can undo what the Conduit did if he can just get to the Conduit, but your whole theory is based on him not knowing that. It's not an inconceivable reading of the scene, but it's tortured. Which is OK if you're just trying to fanwank this into acceptable shape, but it's not believable as actual writer intent.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 24, 2017 18:47:27 GMT
You forgot to mention about the main thrust of my argument which was that Tali had a fifteen hour head start. Where'd you get that fifteen-hour figure from, anyway?
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Post by KaiserShep on Oct 24, 2017 19:08:41 GMT
I assume it's from the same secret script page that reveals how anyone discovered the existence of a "Conduit" in the first place. How did they determine that there was one anyway?
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Post by Iakus on Oct 24, 2017 19:14:19 GMT
All the recording says is that Saren was "one step closer to the Conduit" Not what it was or how he intended to use it. From this I submit that he didn't know the answer to those questions either. He knew the "Conduit" was something important, that much is clear. Therefore, I believe that in piecing together beacon visions, he and Benezia managed to figure out that something called a Conduit was used to foil the Reapers...somehow. In learning what the Conduit is, he figured he could learn how to undo whatever it was the Protheans had done to the Citadel. That's a fairly bizarre use of language. "One step closer" isn't a typical figure of speech when someone doesn't actually know if he's heading in the right direction, or if the destination exists. He's talking like he knows that he can undo what the Conduit did if he can just get to the Conduit, but your whole theory is based on him not knowing that. It's not an inconceivable reading of the scene, but it's tortured. Which is OK if you're just trying to fanwank this into acceptable shape, but it's not believable as actual writer intent. Keep in mind Saren was at least halfway indoctrinated. Even if he didn't have all the answers, the surely Sovereign did. And keep in mind that as far as writer intent goes, these are the same people who thought Commander Shepard should die, come back, get twelve followers, and die to save the universe at age 33 was subtle
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Post by Zatche on Oct 24, 2017 19:21:38 GMT
So what did you record my voice with? How do we know for certain that my voice isn't being impersonated, immediately recognizable as me, or that the audio itself wasn't altered? And lastly, who are you that you're recording me in the first place? Speaking of which, have you seen this? I've been imagining how this type of thing could fit into an ME game. Imagine, hundreds of years after MEA, everyone has a SAM, and some unknown entity hacks into your SAM feeding you lies to trick you into doing something awful a la Spec Ops the Line. ...which would make it a bit more hard sci-fi and a lot less space opera than we're accustomed to. So, maybe not.
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Post by voltangclan on Oct 24, 2017 21:20:57 GMT
That clanless would be too busy scrounging through the garbage to have a 15 hour head start.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Oct 25, 2017 0:42:43 GMT
What makes a comedy oriented channel the "General Public" again? Do I feel some other hidden point within your post there? I actually missed this post, for some weird reason, and its a common running theme among a lot of the commentary I see on this board. Inclduing some of yours, when it comes to what people seem to want in their RPGs. Quality, that's what people I want.
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