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Post by tacsear on Oct 5, 2017 4:40:00 GMT
Day and night cycles
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Post by smilesja on Oct 5, 2017 4:47:29 GMT
Meanwhile, millions of people buy the books and watch the show. Do you think they do it because they like the gore, rape, murder, etc.? Maybe some do, but most do it because they are invested in the characters and their story. I think when you witness good characters going through a hard time and see them struggle and then lose, you start to fear for their well being and you get more attached to them and WANT to see them succeed. It also makes the victories all the more sweeter. This is why I loved the last two seasons of Game Of Thrones, where everything started to finally come together and we finally see some good well-deserved victories. The same thing applies to The Walking Dead show. The characters are always in the gutter and sometimes it gets exhausting to watch, but when there's a victory you cry of happiness for them. Those moments where all of those hard battles finally culminate into something good, those moments that make it all worth it. It makes you feel all kinds of emotions, and you are afraid and happy for these characters. It also helps with character development, looking back to a certain character and think "wow, look how far they came and how much they learned/grew". (I can think of a particular moment with Sansa Stark and Littlefinger in the most recent season of Game Of Thrones, only those who watch the show will know what I mean.) But when you have a hero where everything is handed down to them and they hardly go through any struggles it makes things seem convenient, fake, forced, it's harder for me to establish a connection with that character and actually care for them. I don't want DA4 to be dark because I'm a masochist. I want to feel connected to the characters and that isn't going to happen if they don't have a complex background, motivations, etc. and if they don't go through any hard times. In DAI, Haven falls but right after that you get a bigger and better place. And the way it's presented it's just super convenient and it removes any impact the destruction of Haven could ever have. It wasn't a loss, not really. Most people see the transition of Haven to Skyhold as the best part of the game, the fact that Haven got destroyed and supposedly people died is completely forgotten and while some characters may talk about it, I didn't feel a damn thing about those supposed deaths. I want a game that will make me go through a rollercoaster of emotions. I don't want happiness all the time, or sadness for a few seconds and then right back to happiness. There has to be balance, there has to be the same amount of victories and defeats. Actually, I'd rather have more defeats than victories because like I mentioned, it makes the victories more impactful and meaningful and not something we take from granted. Hey now, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't want the characters to just have things handed to them. But I need to want them to succeed. All I keep hearing about is "things are too light-hearted." Compared to what? The Witcher, much as I liked it, exhausted me to the point where the only reason I cared about anything was mechanical rewards. I don't appreciate you turning my comments into something they are not. While I do like Game of Thrones and The Witcher, sometimes I feel uncaring because it gets way too dark. At least Dragon Age managed to balanced it out with its humor.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 5, 2017 4:48:08 GMT
Bring back stats. And use damage scaling on weapons based on them ( similar to Souls series). "Clean up" the magic effects...way, way overdone. And I don't know..for the music? Something less "generic"? DAI/MEA kind of lacked their own recognizable theme. Don't know about DAI, It had some really epic music.
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Oct 5, 2017 5:41:03 GMT
DAI definitely has epic music.
Don't recall anything noteworthy from MEA
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Oct 5, 2017 11:03:50 GMT
Hey now, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said I didn't want the characters to just have things handed to them. But I need to want them to succeed. All I keep hearing about is "things are too light-hearted." Compared to what? The Witcher, much as I liked it, exhausted me to the point where the only reason I cared about anything was mechanical rewards. I don't appreciate you turning my comments into something they are not. While I do like Game of Thrones and The Witcher, sometimes I feel uncaring because it gets way too dark. At least Dragon Age managed to balanced it out with its humor. This was actually a problem I had with TW2, I enjoyed the game but almost every character in that game was an absolute asshole, I did not care for Iorveth and Roche at all.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 5, 2017 14:27:03 GMT
Well it wasn't the case in DAI. That's a matter of opinion. [brm] Conventional beauty and sexual orientation is not a matter of opinion.... lol.
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Post by Superhik on Oct 5, 2017 16:11:50 GMT
Bring back stats. And use damage scaling on weapons based on them ( similar to Souls series). "Clean up" the magic effects...way, way overdone. And I don't know..for the music? Something less "generic"? DAI/MEA kind of lacked their own recognizable theme. stats? Well, the game had them, but then again, not really. More in line of DA II, but extending them through weapon playstyles.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Oct 6, 2017 21:29:26 GMT
I think just had a realization about this Make Dragon Age Dark Again debate.
To me the main problem with Inquisition wasn't that there weren't enough dark themes in it. The problem is that because of the open world we never got to focus on any of these dark moments. Alright, here's an example.
The Hinterlands is supposed to be the epicenter of the Mage-Templar fights and yet if I go to a certain section of the map, like the dragon lair or the horsemasters home, you never see this supposeded conflict going on. There's just too much stuff being packed into one area, so much so, that the main narrative we should be focused on gets lost in random fetch quests that are slightly related to the central conflict, or not all. Because of that, stuff like that the house where a bench of mages where locked in by templars to be burned alive or the wife of a man who was murdered by templars because he was mistaken as a mage gets treated like scenery or a fetch quest instead of as meaningful plot points for the area. There can't be a feeling of anxiety or darkness because its never given any time to breath. Compare that to Origins where each area the Warden went into had a central problem and narrative theme that did not have to share screentime with a bunch of disconnected fetch quests. You went to the Mage Tower or Haven for the ashes, and you weren't distracted by a bunch of open-world fetch quests that made you collect shards, kill random bears, or bandits. Everything was focused on what was important to the narrative and thus the darker moments were given more focus and impact. That's why we still remember how dark Origins could be yet forget that Tranquil mages had their heads chopped off by the Venatori or that the soldiers in the Exalted Plains had to fight their zombified comrades in Inquisition.
Tl;dr - Open world sucks and leads to bad storytelling.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 6, 2017 23:31:42 GMT
so with Andromeda more or less in the dust, I think for many fans all eyes turn to Dragon Age 4. And while the game has not been officially announced, and while the game may not actually ever see the light of day, but the speculation has been bugging me for a while. So here it is, what I want to see done in Dragon Age 4. 1. Companion storylines: In Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect Andromeda companions had multiple tasks/ quests which let them go on a story. This provided for some very powerful character arcs. I want to see more of this in future Dragon Age games instead of the one and done companion quests we usually see in BioWare, and indeed in RPG, games. 2. Cohesive Storytelling: Another quality of Andromeda which I quite enjoyed was how the main quest line, and the side quest lines, were all part of one larger whole. Instead of the main quest line being the main story thrust for a game everything you did was important in some way to the overall themes and objectives of the pathfinder. Granted there was the occasional piece of fluff but far less then in past BioWare games. So, I hope they will continue with it in DA 4. Give us a central objective and use the side and main quests o flesh it out. 3. 'Profiles': I know apparently this was unpopular, I even wondered if they would be possible for the DA system, and I think they need to be tweaked a bit (especially lore wise) to make it work. But, I have gotten excited because I remembered...in DA O, on consoles, you could flip out based on what weapons you are using. And while I did not really use this system in DA O that often...because I did not feel the need...combinging this system and the profile system has a lot of promise. Imagine being able to be an Archer picking people off at range but then either someone sneaks up on you, leaving you vulunerable, or you just go right in for the kill, you can switch to a melee profile, draw your daggers, and go crazy. 4. A more human story: Nothing wrong with DA I or its story really, per se. But compared to the arc of the Inquisitor and building up an organization, along with the Noble Inquisitor. I want more of a man of the people story, can still be a noble. But something down deep, in the trenches, fighting. The hero that should show Solas he is wrong needs to be a lot closer. They can even have a similar story to Inquisition and build up an organization, but just on the ground level, I want the character to go through a lot more. 5. Bring back the crafting: The weakness of Andromeda's crafting system was noticable. Just copy Inquisition's and have fun with it. The best crafting system ever. It let you design weapons to your individual tastes and to those of the character you were playing and what you wanted from your companions. It also made all that grinding for materials worth it, Andromeda? Not really at all. 1) I am inclined to agree. Big multistaged quests are a great way to get to know companions better 2) What I want are choices that have consequences in the game not in the next game. Not in some vague future. I want them to affect THIS story. I would refer to the Obsidean game Tyranny where choices made IN CHARACTER CREATION affects the setting of the game and even how people respond to you. And choices made in the first act have repercussions for the rest of the game. 3) Profiles were a failed experiment. Get rid of them. I'm all for classless systems, but profiles were not it. 4) The problem with the Inquisitor's story is that you go from Cassandra not being able to promise anything more than a trial before your hanging to leader of an organization that has the Orlesian Empire read to soil itself in fear in a rather abrupt manner. It leads me to wonder if stuff got cut from the early game. At any rate, there's nothing wrong with the Hero's Journey, as long as it's done well. 5) I could take or leave crafting. But DAI had some pretty serious flaws as well. Among them having to sacrifice a goat to the RNG gods to get the schematics you wanted. Stuff that I would like to see: A) Multiple endings akin to DAO: Since the "Shepard Incident" Bioware has been skittish about the fate of the protagonist, going perhaps too far in the OTHER direction. What I'd like to see is the protagonist ending up going down a number of potential paths, based on your choices: some good, some bad, some it depends on the player's outlook. It's okay to have endings that kill off the character if there are other outcomes where the character can have a HEA. DAO was great with this. I want a return to tactical combat. Combat in DAI was AWFUL. Way too much button mashing (and you were limited in active powers so you were just mashing the same few buttons anyway), and you couldn't command companions to do much of anything. Which is funny because I thought DA2 was too pew-pew, but I'd take that back in a heartbeat. C) Magic should be more versatile. DAI magic was "kill it with frost, fire, or lightning" I want healing back. I want buffs, I want glyphs and hexes and spirit summonings. I don't think mages should be good at EVERYTHING, but I do think they should be able to fill various party roles depending on your build. D) If we are talking what we want, can I mention what I don't want? Graphic nudity and sex scenes. Seriously, that stuff is why romances don't get taken seriously in RPGs. Leave that to fanfiction. E) Demons as clever opponents. DAI had the Envy demon and the Nightmare, but given how Fade rifts were such a major aspect of the game, I found demons being largely relegated to cannon fodder to be rather disappointing. Especially seeing the supposedly mighty and clever Pride demons doing nothing more than guarding rifts. If demons are going to play any kind of major role in the next DA game, especially demons of desire or pride, I'd like to see them play a role somewhat bigger than "mook" f) Armor for combat. Not catsuits. not bosomy man-pillows, not tunics w/o pants to go with them. Suits of leather and/or metal to interpose sharpened blades from tender flesh. Sure, keep light medium and heavy armor for different classes, but something to indicate they acknowledge this situation is dangerous. One thing I always made use of with DAI's crafting is to ensure that IB always had a proper breastplate to wear .
G) Speaking of...if the next game is going to have the Qunari in conflict with Tevinter, I wanna see "bronze-skinned giants clad in gleaming steel" like the codex describes them
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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thehound
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Post by House Targaryen on Oct 7, 2017 3:47:12 GMT
Each party member has their own healing potions, etc. Being able to flip back and forth between weapons like in DAO. Go from daggers to bow at a click of a button.
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Ravenfeeder
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Oct 7, 2017 11:13:44 GMT
Wall of random thought time:
1) combat to be tactical without being a pain in the nether regions. DAO managed this just fine (with a couple of animation issues). DA2 was terrible. DAI was doing OK, but the way the tactical camera moved, fixed to the terrain didn't help at all, it needs to be free floating. There needs to be a configuable companion AI tactics as well. 2) a story where the protagonist can actually make meaningful decisions. Again DAO>DAI>DA2 2.1) I'm quite happy with a smaller more focused not-save-the-world story, but I have to feel empowered in some way. Which I didn't in DA2. 3) open areas have to stay. the biggest problem with DAO was the horrible tunnels you had to go along, even in overground areas. 4) something for companions to do when they are not adventuring with you. If they have their own lives then fine, but just waiting around at the base doesn't cut it. In DAI terms they should be the ones off doing war-table missions and be unavailable whilst they do it. 5) a city done well. Think Baldur's Gate or Defiance Bay. Hopefully not Minrathous. Nevarra City, Dairsmuid or Llomerynn would be better. 6) a return to dwarvern politics on a big scale. No more little thaigs that are just an opportunity to shove in some Darkspawn. I wasn't a fan of The Descent, but there were political implications to both that and the surface Thaig in the Hissing Wastes that I'd love to see addressed, preferably without another boring linear dungeon crawl. 7) more specialisation paths. Take all the work done in DAI and port it direct and then add some more. I generally prefer to play warriors, which were OK in DAI, but none of the mage ones really appealed when I got round to playing one of those. No blood mages or mages-who-can-do-everything though. 8) if there's a customisable base, make it actually mean something. And make us work for it. Skyhold was given to us on a plate, we didn't find it for ourselves and though it was really cool, the customisations were both pointless and just an excercise in spending money, no real work involved. 9) on that line, don't make spending money a pass to anything. The buying influence thing in DAI felt really off. Medieval politics are about personal relationships not money and you can't buy friends. 10) Dark is fine but try and limit the amount of teenage-y angst or grinding depression. Which is why I don't want much in Tevinter. Slavery and oppression lead to too much depression and too many persecution complexes, something DA has always had too much of. 11) another off the wall character like Sera. She really was a breath of fresh air. 12) another In Your Heart Shall Burn / Dawn will Come moment. I know such thigs are hard to write and don't always come off, but that one gets me every time. Every Time. 13) side quests that link in to the main story. The dwarven thaig in the Hissing Wastes was a great idea, but nothing came of it afterwards and it had minimal links to the main story. 13.1) side quests that do link into the main story to be given a bit more depth. The mage-templar fighting in the Hinterlands is a great example. There was so much here of what the Inquisiition is all about at this point, but the actual quests didn't feel as if they had any weight. 14) Dragon flight combat that is AI controlled rather than speifically scripted. All the dragon fighting in DAI actually happened on the ground, the flying bits were generally just visual fluff.
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Post by Prince on Oct 7, 2017 12:12:25 GMT
This
2)Iakus: "What I want are choices that have consequences in the game not in the next game. Not in some vague future".
As for myself... What I want from DA4 is for Gaider to not be involved with it(in any shape or form),so there will be no cameos. DAI and DA2 had so much useless cameos within them.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 7, 2017 14:31:15 GMT
I have my doubts about this. Bioware just does not get open worlds and has a very, early 2000s view of the open world concept. Horizon was Gurella Games first open world game and they knocked it out of the park. So far both MEA and DAI have came up short in this area and I have low expectations for DA4 in regards to open world.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 7, 2017 14:38:01 GMT
While I do like Game of Thrones and The Witcher, sometimes I feel uncaring because it gets way too dark. At least Dragon Age managed to balanced it out with its humor. This was actually a problem I had with TW2, I enjoyed the game but almost every character in that game was an absolute asshole, I did not care for Iorveth and Roche at all. Then CDPR succeeded because that was the intent. Unlike Bioware who sees everything in black and white, TW games were meant to be grey and putting the player in situations where they must choose the lesser of two equal evils. Bioware may say that it is a tough choice to choose the mages or the templars, but it is clear to Bioware that siding with the mages are the good and ideal choice. There are no clear and ideal choices in Witcher games. Often times, making the short term "right" choice will lead to "bad" long term consequences. This is the beauty of Witcher games. I doubt Bioware has the gall to ever put us in similar situations.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 7, 2017 14:44:25 GMT
Tl;dr - Open world sucks and leads to bad storytelling. Nope, Bioware just sucks at open world. Nobody ever said that the storytelling in Red Dead Redemption was lacking due to open world. In fact, that game is praised for its storytelling. TW3 is praised for its storytelling and narrative and yet still had an open world and was able to convey to the player the dark themes (Think the Bloody Baron quest line). So while ALL developers including Rockstar and CDPR has a lot to improve on with open worlds, it is really Bioware who just doesnt understand open worlds and has 2 games thus far to prove that they dont get it.
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pinkjellybeans
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 7, 2017 14:44:25 GMT
Ok, this is going to be a bit long, sorry about that. It's nothing new really, I think it's been said before but I still want to give my "list". Maybe some developer is lurking about. Main story: I think it's time to go back to a more personal story. I don't want my character to be the most important person on Thedas again. Either gain fame and/or power as the game progresses (Hawke) or only be recognized as a hero at the end (warden). I don't want things to fall on my lap and be considered as the savior of the world right at the start. I need struggles, I need defeats so the victories are more satisfying. I want to see the dark side of Tevinter that we read/heard about so many times for the past 3 games and experience it during quests and other encounters. Protagonist: An origin story would be great, but if it's not possible then I want to at least witness what my character's life was before heading into their new adventure. Being thrown right into the middle of the action and basically say "what you were before doesn't matter now" is a terrible way to make me feel connected to them. Assuming DA4's story will have a smaller scale than DAI, I want the freedom of being a (sarcastic) asshole and self-serving again or even be able to kill someone just because they annoy me or are in my way. I'm tired of being a goody two shoes who is diplomatic by default. Give me the options to play completely different characters in different playthroughs. Also, something I really miss: persuasion and intimidation. That adds so much to the game in terms of building the player's character and resolving quests/encounters. Oh, and if we're going to be able to choose our race again, make it worth it. I don't want to play different races just because of aesthetics, I want NPCs to react, have access to different quests, have unique dialogue options, etc. Companions: I want the main storyline to be important and impactful but I think the journey and the struggles that our character goes through with their companions is just as important. Give me character development, the slow build up towards friendship. Maybe some characters are more distrustful of you at first, and you get to earn their trust with your decisions and dialogue. I'm all about the slow build up, specially when it comes to romances. It's not satisfying to me when companions instantly trust my character and support everything I do without questioning or when after just a few flirts here and there love is instantly in the air and with just one kiss you are suddenly on a exclusive relationship. Being on the field, exploring and in combat is a great way to build relationships too, let us talk to companions in these moments and not just back at the base, give us more interactive banter as well. I want companions to react to the world around them more often and give their opinions during quests (maybe even oppose to your decisions where you have to explain yourself or persuade them to go along with it, like DAO). When I reach the end of the game I want to feel like these characters are my true friends and not just my followers who support my mission, I want to feel like we went to hell and back together and nothing can tear us apart. I want that sense of friendship back and not feel like my companions barely tolerate each other or are simply "co-workers". I'd prefer if we would get less companions and more effort put into their background and connection to the main story, as well as their sidequests. Maps: I prefer more contained areas but I don't mind an open world as long as it's done right. We all know DAI had too many maps and you could clearly see Bioware struggled to give those maps meaning and a purpose on the story. I want to visit different places, sure, but I want to have a damn good reason for going there. I don't want to be able to finish the game without setting foot on half of the maps. That says a lot about the irrelevance of most places in DAI. I want the main story to actually take place on these maps along with the sidequests so we can do both at the same time. I want to meet different people of different cultures on each map too. Where are the great cities of Thedas? Actual living breathing cities. Villages full of people, children, animals? I want to interact with people, hear stories, talk about their problems, so I can give a damn when they ask me to do something for them. Which brings me to my next point: Sidequests: I don't mind fetch quests, every game has them, but give us some actual meaty sidequests too with plenty of dialogue and choices, as well as cutscenes. When you use that far away camera in ALL sidequests, it comes to a point where I just don't care for these NPCs and their requests. I can't have a personal, up-close conversation with them and I can't see any emotion on their faces/posture, so why should I care when they look like cardboard cutouts? Sidequests are also a great way to build our character's personality through dialogue options and CHOICES so yeah, can't do that if you don't have them. Soundtrack: One other thing that I desperately need for DA4 is MORE music. DAI has a great soundtrack but you barely hear it outside of the (few) main missions. But when you do it's like "woah! This is great!" and you get goosebumps. A good soundtrack can take a particular moment to the next level and evoke all kinds of emotions on the players, it's probably as important as everything else happening on the scene. In Hushed Whispers remains one of my favorite quests in DAI, and part of the reason is because of the soundtrack that plays in the background, it adds a sense of despair which is greatly needed to enhance the atmosphere. But more than that, I need ambient music when exploring the maps and when in regular combat, otherwise things get boring real fast with all the silence. Can you imagine running around the huge world of Skyrim without any music? Or even exploring Skellige on TW3 without that amazing soundtrack with beautiful vocals? Or how about fighting a tough enemy without some epic music to get you hyped? Combat: My perfect DA combat would be a mix of DA2 (a bit more fast paced, I loved having my rogue Hawke run to enemies with weapons on hand, ready do kick some butt. The slow walk in DAI is honestly dull and annoying at times) with the diversity and tactical aspect of DAO. For one, being able to set tactics (like have mages and archers be at freaking range and not run straight in front of a dragon), a tactical camera that actually let's you see the whole battlefield and doesn't clash with terrain and objects, and a "hold position" that works how it should. I also really need the diversity of spells for mages to be back. I loved being able to control crowds with grease, fireballs, sleep, walking nightmare or even mass paralysis. I also miss when the enemy mages were actually a threat and also used those spells. It balances the combat and makes things more challenging (you could do that instead of removing healing magic) because you have to think twice before going head on into fights. It also gives you more motivation to use the tactical elements instead of just pressing the attack button for 5 minutes and wait for the enemies to die. Also, please give companions an unique specialization that reflects their background/personality. Not only does that add more depth to the characters, it also makes combat more diversed and fun. And finally, show, don't tell: One of the most annoying things about DAI. Having to read about something great/terrible that happened on the sidelines, or having people constantly telling me about refugees dying of hunger/cold/etc. while I don't see anyone or any suffering at all. Let me witness and experience these things. A few other things that weren't in any DA game but I hope we'll get in DA4. - Some actual climbing system. Nothing frustrates me more in DAI than having to jump like a monkey to climb something. Characters should be able to actually grab edges and climb themselves. - A way to avoid fall damage. Warriors and rogues should be able to tuck in and roll, mages could levitate for a few seconds (ala Dragon's Dogma). - Sprint. Honestly. If a horde of unkillable bears are chasing me, I want to be able to freaking make a run for it and not stroll through the hoods. - Mages that can auto-attack and walk at the same time (like archers in DAI). - And this was something that existed in DAO to some extent, but I wish I could choose if I want my mage to have a staff or not by being able to cast spells and auto-attack without them. Obviously staves are more powerful and give you bonuses but it makes no sense why mages are useless without them. I always laugh on DAI's prologue when the dialogue option "I don't need a staff" comes up. Erm, yes, you do need it apparently.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 7, 2017 15:58:13 GMT
This was actually a problem I had with TW2, I enjoyed the game but almost every character in that game was an absolute asshole, I did not care for Iorveth and Roche at all. Then CDPR succeeded because that was the intent. Unlike Bioware who sees everything in black and white, TW games were meant to be grey and putting the player in situations where they must choose the lesser of two equal evils. Bioware may say that it is a tough choice to choose the mages or the templars, but it is clear to Bioware that siding with the mages are the good and ideal choice. There are no clear and ideal choices in Witcher games. Often times, making the short term "right" choice will lead to "bad" long term consequences. This is the beauty of Witcher games. I doubt Bioware has the gall to ever put us in similar situations. There were definitely crazy mages in Dragon Age from the one who killed Hawkes mother to Orsino. Besides I felt pretty indifferent at times TW2 where they just put darkness for the sake of darkness to the point I just didn’t care.
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fchopin
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fchopin on Oct 7, 2017 16:15:14 GMT
Ok, this is going to be a bit long, sorry about that. It's nothing new really, I think it's been said before but I still want to give my "list". Maybe some developer is lurking about. Main story: I think it's time to go back to a more personal story. I don't want my character to be the most important person on Thedas again. Either gain fame and/or power as the game progresses (Hawke) or only be recognized as a hero at the end (warden). I don't want things to fall on my lap and be considered as the savior of the world right at the start. I need struggles, I need defeats so the victories are more satisfying. I want to see the dark side of Tevinter that we read/heard about so many times for the past 3 games and experience it during quests and other encounters. Protagonist: An origin story would be great, but if it's not possible then I want to at least witness what my character's life was before heading into their new adventure. Being thrown right into the middle of the action and basically say "what you were before doesn't matter now" is a terrible way to make me feel connected to them. Assuming DA4's story will have a smaller scale than DAI, I want the freedom of being a (sarcastic) asshole and self-serving again or even be able to kill someone just because they annoy me or are in my way. I'm tired of being a goody two shoes who is diplomatic by default. Give me the options to play completely different characters in different playthroughs. Also, something I really miss: persuasion and intimidation. That adds so much to the game in terms of building the player's character and resolving quests/encounters. Oh, and if we're going to be able to choose our race again, make it worth it. I don't want to play different races just because of aesthetics, I want NPCs to react, have access to different quests, have unique dialogue options, etc. Companions: I want the main storyline to be important and impactful but I think the journey and the struggles that our character goes through with their companions is just as important. Give me character development, the slow build up towards friendship. Maybe some characters are more distrustful of you at first, and you get to earn their trust with your decisions and dialogue. I'm all about the slow build up, specially when it comes to romances. It's not satisfying to me when companions instantly trust my character and support everything I do without questioning or when after just a few flirts here and there love is instantly in the air and with just one kiss you are suddenly on a exclusive relationship. Being on the field, exploring and in combat is a great way to build relationships too, let us talk to companions in these moments and not just back at the base, give us more interactive banter as well. I want companions to react to the world around them more often and give their opinions during quests (maybe even oppose to your decisions where you have to explain yourself or persuade them to go along with it, like DAO). When I reach the end of the game I want to feel like these characters are my true friends and not just my followers who support my mission, I want to feel like we went to hell and back together and nothing can tear us apart. I want that sense of friendship back and not feel like my companions barely tolerate each other or are simply "co-workers". I'd prefer if we would get less companions and more effort put into their background and connection to the main story, as well as their sidequests. Maps: I prefer more contained areas but I don't mind an open world as long as it's done right. We all know DAI had too many maps and you could clearly see Bioware struggled to give those maps meaning and a purpose on the story. I want to visit different places, sure, but I want to have a damn good reason for going there. I don't want to be able to finish the game without setting foot on half of the maps. That says a lot about the irrelevance of most places in DAI. I want the main story to actually take place on these maps along with the sidequests so we can do both at the same time. I want to meet different people of different cultures on each map too. Where are the great cities of Thedas? Actual living breathing cities. Villages full of people, children, animals? I want to interact with people, hear stories, talk about their problems, so I can give a damn when they ask me to do something for them. Which brings me to my next point: Sidequests: I don't mind fetch quests, every game has them, but give us some actual meaty sidequests too with plenty of dialogue and choices, as well as cutscenes. When you use that far away camera in ALL sidequests, it comes to a point where I just don't care for these NPCs and their requests. I can't have a personal, up-close conversation with them and I can't see any emotion on their faces/posture, so why should I care when they look like cardboard cutouts? Sidequests are also a great way to build our character's personality through dialogue options and CHOICES so yeah, can't do that if you don't have them. Soundtrack: One other thing that I desperately need for DA4 is MORE music. DAI has a great soundtrack but you barely hear it outside of the (few) main missions. But when you do it's like "woah! This is great!" and you get goosebumps. A good soundtrack can take a particular moment to the next level and invoke all kinds of emotions on the players, it's probably as important as everything else happening on the scene. In Hushed Whispers remains one of my favorite quests in DAI and one of the reasons is because of the soundtrack that plays in the background, it adds a sense of despair which is greatly needed. But more than than, I need soundtrack when exploring the maps and when in regular combat, otherwise things get boring real fast with all the silence. Can you imagine running around the huge world of Skyrim without any music? Or even exploring Skellige on TW3 without that amazing soundtrack with beautiful vocals? Or how about fighting a tough enemy without some epic music to get you hyped? Combat: My perfect DA combat would be a mix of DA2 (a bit more fast paced, I loved having my rogue Hawke run to enemies with weapons on hand, ready do kick some butt. The slow walk in DAI is honestly dull and annoying at times) with the diversity and tactical aspect of DAO. For one, being able to set tactics (like have mages and archers be at freaking range and not run straight in front of a dragon), and a tactical camera that works how it should. I also really need the diversity of spells for mages to be back. I loved being able to control crowds with grease, fireballs, sleep, walking nightmare or even mass paralysis. I also miss when the enemy mages were actually a threat and also used those spells. It balances the combat and makes things more challenging (you could do that instead of removing healing magic) because you have to think twice before going head on into fights. It also gives you more motivation to use the tactical elements instead of just pressing the attack button for 5 minutes and wait for the enemies to die. Also, please give companions an unique specialization that reflects their background/personality. Not only does that add more depth to the characters, it also makes combat more diversed and fun. And finally, show, don't tell: One of the most annoying things about DAI. Having to read about something great/terrible that happened on the sidelines, or having people constantly telling me about refugees dying of hunger/cold/etc. while I don't see anyone or any suffering at all. Let me witness and experience these things. A few other things that weren't in any DA game but I hope we'll get in DA4. - Some actual climbing system. Nothing frustrates me more in DAI than having to jump like a monkey to climb something. Characters should be able to actually grab edges and climb themselves. - A way to avoid fall damage. Warriors and rogues should be able to tuck in and roll, mages could levitate for a few seconds (ala Dragon's Dogma). - Sprint. Honestly. If a horde of unkillable bears are chasing me, I want to be able to freaking make a run for it and not stroll through the hoods. - Mages that can auto-attack and walk at the same time (like archers in DAI). - And this was something that existed in DAO to some extent, but I wish I could choose if I want my mage to have a staff or not by being able to cast spells and auto-attack without them. Obviously staves are more powerful and give you bonuses but it makes no sense why mages are useless without them. I always laugh on DAI's prologue when the dialogue option "I don't need a staff" comes up. Erm, yes, you do need it apparently. I just like to say that i agree with all you said.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 7, 2017 16:53:44 GMT
The Hinterlands is supposed to be the epicenter of the Mage-Templar fights and yet if I go to a certain section of the map, like the dragon lair or the horsemasters home, you never see this supposeded conflict going on. There's just too much stuff being packed into one area, so much so, that the main narrative we should be focused on gets lost in random fetch quests that are slightly related to the central conflict, or not all. Because of that, stuff like that the house where a bench of mages where locked in by templars to be burned alive or the wife of a man who was murdered by templars because he was mistaken as a mage gets treated like scenery or a fetch quest instead of as meaningful plot points for the area. There can't be a feeling of anxiety or darkness because its never given any time to breath. Compare that to Origins where each area the Warden went into had a central problem and narrative theme that did not have to share screentime with a bunch of disconnected fetch quests. You went to the Mage Tower or Haven for the ashes, and you weren't distracted by a bunch of open-world fetch quests that made you collect shards, kill random bears, or bandits. Everything was focused on what was important to the narrative and thus the darker moments were given more focus and impact. That's why we still remember how dark Origins could be yet forget that Tranquil mages had their heads chopped off by the Venatori or that the soldiers in the Exalted Plains had to fight their zombified comrades in Inquisition. I don't see how this argument works for a lot of the DAI areas. The Hinterlands is not all that typical; many DAI zones have most of their content related to their central plot line, don't the Year?
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Post by tacsear on Oct 7, 2017 17:30:35 GMT
I have my doubts about this. Bioware just does not get open worlds and has a very, early 2000s view of the open world concept. Horizon was Gurella Games first open world game and they knocked it out of the park. So far both MEA and DAI have came up short in this area and I have low expectations for DA4 in regards to open world. I aggree, if 3rd time isn't the charm in this case, I won't be buying any BW open world games anymore.
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Oct 7, 2017 17:31:16 GMT
This was actually a problem I had with TW2, I enjoyed the game but almost every character in that game was an absolute asshole, I did not care for Iorveth and Roche at all. Then CDPR succeeded because that was the intent. Unlike Bioware who sees everything in black and white, TW games were meant to be grey and putting the player in situations where they must choose the lesser of two equal evils. Bioware may say that it is a tough choice to choose the mages or the templars, but it is clear to Bioware that siding with the mages are the good and ideal choice. There are no clear and ideal choices in Witcher games. Often times, making the short term "right" choice will lead to "bad" long term consequences. This is the beauty of Witcher games. I doubt Bioware has the gall to ever put us in similar situations. Black and black is just as boring as black and white, and way more infuriating. TW3 on the other hand did a far better job of presenting a world of different shades of grey.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 7, 2017 23:45:40 GMT
1. Real open world game with day and night cycle, weather, and constellations on the sky.
2. Dark theme to make the game more intense and heart pounding (they should learn from Witcher for ways to improve their style of themes)
3. A classless protagonist to have freedom to create your own build, instead of choosing a class and stick with it.
4. BioWare should introduce motion capture and hire combat choreographers to improve combat gameplay to be more fluid and action oriented.
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on Oct 8, 2017 7:34:55 GMT
This was actually a problem I had with TW2, I enjoyed the game but almost every character in that game was an absolute asshole, I did not care for Iorveth and Roche at all. Then CDPR succeeded because that was the intent. Unlike Bioware who sees everything in black and white, TW games were meant to be grey and putting the player in situations where they must choose the lesser of two equal evils. Bioware may say that it is a tough choice to choose the mages or the templars, but it is clear to Bioware that siding with the mages are the good and ideal choice. There are no clear and ideal choices in Witcher games. Often times, making the short term "right" choice will lead to "bad" long term consequences. This is the beauty of Witcher games. I doubt Bioware has the gall to ever put us in similar situations. I've always felt that this is both one of W3's strengths & weaknesses. Their shades of grey can add depth to characters and quests that few others handle as well. But on the other hand, it means I have far less emotional investment in most of those characters or the outcomes of those quests. I found that through the game, I rarely made emotional choices or "heart vs head" decisions. When nearly everyone is at least part self-serving assholes, with the exception of Ciri & Priscilla, I stopped caring who I threw under the bus. On some level, they all "deserve" it, so... who cares? I didn't dwell on any of my decisions and they became almost entirely pragmatic - "Which choice gives me the better set of boots?". That's how I made decisions. BioWare on the other hand I felt was better at putting me in situations with choices I had to step away and think about. Making me care about the choices I made. That is their strength IMO.
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Oct 8, 2017 22:39:46 GMT
The latest in the Twitter thread made me think of this:
I want companion char development to NOT be hidden behind another party member a la Cole in DAI. I shouldn't need a specific someone along in order to learn all about why X is so shitty to everyone or why Y doesn't like something. Let the development be the char's own, not forced on them. No 3d party required other than for extra (non-critical)banter permutations.
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2017 22:41:29 GMT
I hope in DA4 they have a: - Relgion/Faction Tracker (like they tracked you Mages vs Templars Hawke as well as the Faith in DAI)
- Relationship tracker like in DA2 with a bit more nuances
- Romance tracker, so conversations that were in DAO DA2 about who you're also "banging" and have "banged" in the past comes up
- Political Power Tracker, but not used like a form of Currency like in DAI. More like what was happening at the Winter Palace, but throughout the whole game.
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