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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 5, 2017 18:31:33 GMT
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody in this thread has been triggered by anything. (Well, maybe you have been.)Indifference to a kind of content is the opposite of being triggered by it Mr Jizz
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 5, 2017 18:35:38 GMT
SofaJockey I'm cool with this thread being closed. It's devolved into a CDPR vs Bioware discussion and I did warn them a few pages back. Of course, up to you. I guess that doesn't technically break rules but I'm tried of seeing the thread on the front page when they aren't even discussing OP topic anymore Request for a cease and desist noted. Poll added to sample the mood on the matter... bsn.boards.net/thread/12869/da4-return-darker-roots-dao
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Post by vonuber on Nov 5, 2017 22:13:19 GMT
Heartening to see you are such a fan of my Sara!
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 5, 2017 23:21:58 GMT
Don't be ridiculous. Nobody in this thread has been triggered by anything. (Well, maybe you have been.)Indifference to a kind of content is the opposite of being triggered by it Mr Jizz is trying to make the claim that if you are uncomfortable at the objectification of women (note it's not a scantily clad man) or don't really see the need or point of it (or just don't really care), then you are clearly a 'triggered' sjw or whatever the de rigueur term is now. I'm actually glad they put out that promotional art, because it's like a giant sign saying 'OUR GAME IS NOT AIMED AT YOU.' Which is useful, because that way I know I shouldn't bother spending money on it! I mean, maybe the game will not actually be made of 100% Pure Male Gaze, but I'll wait and see what the reviews say and probably won't purchase it at full price. (And it's not like every cRPG has to be aimed at me - I've got DA4 to look forward to, not to mention Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire and whatever Mysterious Project of Mystery BeamDog are making and hopefully a follow-up to Divnity: Original Sin 2 to be going on with, so it's not like there's a shortage of future titles I want to play.)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 5, 2017 23:42:54 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 5, 2017 23:51:02 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. Well, a female protagonist/PC doesn't yet mean something is not 'male gaze-ish' (I mean... just look at gems like Catwoman), but that's beside the point - the reality is that we don't really know how the game will be like. We know the setting, but not the story they're going to cook up.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 5, 2017 23:54:31 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. Well, a female protagonist/PC doesn't yet mean something is not 'male gaze-ish' (I man... just look at gems like Catwoman), but that's beside the point - the reality is that we don't really know how the game will be like. We know the setting, but not the story they're going to cook up. Oh, I'm not saying there isn't going to be plenty of stuff for the male gaze, I was just saying that when it comes to fanservice it won't all be just for them but also things for female players as well. Yeah, I'm hoping that starting next year they actually start talking about the details about the game.
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My Mattock brings all the boys to the yard...
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Post by DragonRacer on Nov 6, 2017 0:05:49 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. Well, a female protagonist/PC doesn't yet mean something is not 'male gaze-ish' (I man... just look at gems like Catwoman), but that's beside the point - the reality is that we don't really know how the game will be like. We know the setting, but not the story they're going to cook up. So true. Playing as a FemShep in ME2, I will never forget literally laughing out loud at all of the gratuitous Miranda ass-shots like... okay, totally not interested in that, but you do you, guys.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 6, 2017 0:17:48 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. One of the complaints againts TW3 was that you could only play as a male and set character. With 2077, it is confirmed that you will be able to play as male or female, create your own character, and choose between an array of classes to include Journalist and Rockstars. So 2077 will have more player customization than Witcher 3. As for the "male gaze", I do not think CDPR could care either way, especially given the content of the teaser trailer/concept art. They know who their audience is and they will not try to bend anything to change who they are, similar to Rockstar Games.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 6, 2017 0:18:43 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. It's certainly possible - but at the moment we don't have a lot to go on except concept art that shout 'Get A Load Of This Ridiculously Posed Stripper/Murderer, Guys!' So I'll certainly be interested to see how they handle a female protagonist and/or romance content that is not aimed at straight dudes. Wouldn't be the first time that concept art and trailers have been misleading!
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 6, 2017 0:46:49 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. It's certainly possible - but at the moment we don't have a lot to go on except concept art that shout 'Get A Load Of This Ridiculously Posed Stripper/Murderer, Guys!' So I'll certainly be interested to see how they handle a female protagonist and/or romance content that is not aimed at straight dudes. Wouldn't be the first time that concept art and trailers have been misleading! Again, I dont think CDPR cares about that stuff. Only Bioware does the whole, "lets appeal to everyone and offend nobody" approach. CDPR, like Rockstar just focuses on making a quality game in terms of setting, gameplay, and narrative. If the result is that it only appeals to straight dudes, then oh well. To tie this back to the OP, this is why I believe no brothels are going to be in DA4. It is because they do not want to appear to the female base as pandering to men and ignoring the fact that females also play their games.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 6, 2017 1:15:35 GMT
It's certainly possible - but at the moment we don't have a lot to go on except concept art that shout 'Get A Load Of This Ridiculously Posed Stripper/Murderer, Guys!' So I'll certainly be interested to see how they handle a female protagonist and/or romance content that is not aimed at straight dudes. Wouldn't be the first time that concept art and trailers have been misleading! Again, I dont think CDPR cares about that stuff. Only Bioware does the whole, "lets appeal to everyone and offend nobody" approach. CDPR, like Rockstar just focuses on making a quality game in terms of setting, gameplay, and narrative. If the result is that it only appeals to straight dudes, then oh well. To tie this back to the OP, this is why I believe no brothels are going to be in DA4. It is because they do not want to appear to the female base as pandering to men and ignoring the fact that females also play their games. Which is fine - like I say, it's not like every cRPG in the world has to cater to me. I've got plenty of other games to spend my money on. For the record, I do not care one way or another about brothels in future DA titles. I find the ones we've had in the past neither offensive nor appealing. Same with the brothel in Pillars of Eternity, for that matter. (The quest where you hire a sex worker in Divinity: Original Sin 2 is pure gold, though.)
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 6, 2017 2:16:13 GMT
One of the complaints againts TW3 was that you could only play as a male and set character. With 2077, it is confirmed that you will be able to play as male or female, create your own character, and choose between an array of classes to include Journalist and Rockstars. So 2077 will have more player customization than Witcher 3. As for the "male gaze", I do not think CDPR could care either way, especially given the content of the teaser trailer/concept art. They know who their audience is and they will not try to bend anything to change who they are, similar to Rockstar Games. I never understood that complaint since Witcher is based on a book. Is this a picture of the character we can play cause I haven't heard that yet or another promo picture? She is kinda cute, wouldn't mind if she was my character. As far as 'male gaze' or 'female gaze' sure I don't mind either. I chuckled when my fem Shep took a long look at Kaidens rump in ME3. Don't know what it has to do with Brothels though. Just generic concept art/promotional wallpaper.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 6, 2017 2:56:08 GMT
Gotta love how the authors of both articles completely ignore the contexts of said violence, who is perpetrating it or why. As if creative people are completely incapable of depicting opposing thoughts and actions without endorsing them.
Critic: This game features violence against women and children!
Game Dev: We made it pretty freaking obvious that is was the villains doing those things.
Critic: But you wrote them, therefore those "villains" are clear reflections of your thought patterns!
Game Dev: But the player character is meant to oppose them-
Critic: Doesn't matter! You created the entire scenario where violence is used, where the protagonist suffers!
Game Dev: So no fictional story can ever have anyone doing anything bad, regardless of history or context, without being accused of endorsing it?
Critic: YES!!!
Except it's a strawman. Nobody (in the articles at least) was making anything close to this argument. I read both articles several times, and both cite what they consider the mere existence of objectionable content in judgmental terms with zero context. Hell, the very title of the second one, PlayStation defends domestic abuse in trailers: "A game made by adults, to be played by adults" , has to be one of the most leading, intellectually dishonest, unprofessional and disgustingly self serving titles I've seen in some time.
A proper advertisement should* give potential customers an accurate summation of what the product does. In my view, those trailers showed exactly what kind of game and story The Last of Us 2 and Detroit: Became Human would entail with no ambiguity or room for interpretation. Thus, they fulfilled their responsibility to the TRUTH. If the trailers had avoided or actively whitewashed such content, customers would have been given a false representation of the games, and be justifiably angry at being lied to. People who dislike such stories now know that these games are not for them, and can look elsewhere. With false advertising, the customer could not properly exercise their responsibility on voting with their wallets. If your response is "well maybe that content shouldn't exist in the games proper", then you've pretty much proved my point.
*I know most advertisements usually don't, which why I added the emphasis .
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Post by pessimistpanda on Nov 6, 2017 3:03:47 GMT
It's certainly possible - but at the moment we don't have a lot to go on except concept art that shout 'Get A Load Of This Ridiculously Posed Stripper/Murderer, Guys!' So I'll certainly be interested to see how they handle a female protagonist and/or romance content that is not aimed at straight dudes. Wouldn't be the first time that concept art and trailers have been misleading! Again, I dont think CDPR cares about that stuff. Only Bioware does the whole, "lets appeal to everyone and offend nobody" approach. CDPR, like Rockstar just focuses on making a quality game in terms of setting, gameplay, and narrative. If the result is that it only appeals to straight dudes, then oh well. To tie this back to the OP, this is why I believe no brothels are going to be in DA4. It is because they do not want to appear to the female base as pandering to men and ignoring the fact that females also play their games. BioWare offended you tho, lol.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 6, 2017 3:05:44 GMT
It's certainly possible - but at the moment we don't have a lot to go on except concept art that shout 'Get A Load Of This Ridiculously Posed Stripper/Murderer, Guys!' So I'll certainly be interested to see how they handle a female protagonist and/or romance content that is not aimed at straight dudes. Wouldn't be the first time that concept art and trailers have been misleading! Again, I dont think CDPR cares about that stuff. Only Bioware does the whole, "lets appeal to everyone and offend nobody" approach. CDPR, like Rockstar just focuses on making a quality game in terms of setting, gameplay, and narrative. If the result is that it only appeals to straight dudes, then oh well. To tie this back to the OP, this is why I believe no brothels are going to be in DA4. It is because they do not want to appear to the female base as pandering to men and ignoring the fact that females also play their games. Do you have any proof of that? There were male prostitutes in the games as well.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2017 6:21:32 GMT
That was a rhetorical question, right?
Maybe our real subject is straight males' fear of persecution, rather than anything having to do with Bio games or even CRPGs in general.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 6, 2017 6:35:11 GMT
That was a rhetorical question, right? Maybe our real subject is straight males' fear of persecution, rather than anything having to do with Bio games or even CRPGs in general. I just presumed it was a culture of toxic behavior that is a root cause. Basically folks who think they are expressing their masculinity or femininity in a way they find to be self gratifying, only it's at the misfortune of others because that is how they find gratification. This comes to us in the form of this almost fanatical sense of ownership of the hobby that has branched beyond the nerd stereotype we all used to be a part of. That scares people for some reason. More and more, I notice gaming as a culture have a problem with this. Partisan politics have not helped things either, only exacerbating such venomous behavior further as the entire subcultured suffers through a large portion of its audience engaging in such toxicity.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 6, 2017 6:36:26 GMT
I don't think Cyberpunk 2077 will be 100% male gaze, since after all in that game you will be allowed to play as a female as the main character. I also wouldn't be surprised if they had LGBT+ romances in that game since the whole point is to allow the player as much choice as possible. One of the complaints againts TW3 was that you could only play as a male and set character. With 2077, it is confirmed that you will be able to play as male or female, create your own character, and choose between an array of classes to include Journalist and Rockstars. So 2077 will have more player customization than Witcher 3. I know. That's what I said.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2017 6:44:57 GMT
I just presumed it was a culture of toxic behavior that is a root cause. Basically folks who think they are expressing their masculinity or femininity in a way they find to be self gratifying, only it's at the misfortune of others because that is how they find gratification. This almost fanatical form of ownership of a hobby that has branched beyond the nerd stereotype we all used to be a part of. That scares people for some reason. The weird thing about this is that back when the really old-school nerds owned computer games, we hadn't bought into that toxic masculinity stuff. Back when it was just me and a Trash-80, that crap was for jocks.
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 6, 2017 6:46:16 GMT
I just presumed it was a culture of toxic behavior that is a root cause. Basically folks who think they are expressing their masculinity or femininity in a way they find to be self gratifying, only it's at the misfortune of others because that is how they find gratification. This almost fanatical form of ownership of a hobby that has branched beyond the nerd stereotype we all used to be a part of. That scares people for some reason. The weird thing about this is that back when the really old-school nerds owned computer games, we hadn't bought into that toxic masculinity stuff. Back when it was just me and a Trash-80, that crap was for jocks. Nerds are the new jocks now...that sort of stereotype has fallen by the wayside.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 6, 2017 8:38:28 GMT
That's the sad part -- nowadays it seems to be the worst features of both cultures are getting combined.
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Post by vonuber on Nov 6, 2017 10:55:24 GMT
Just because CDPR are giving the option of playing as a woman, doesn't mean that it won't just be a texture swap for a male written character. That sort of thing happens a lot; even femshep suffered from it. It's a difficult thing to do and requires additional investment.
I am not qualified to say how the PC may react differently, or what their views may be - however oddly enough I found the Saints Row series (3 + 4) did the difference very well.
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Post by jaison1986 on Nov 6, 2017 13:31:03 GMT
Just because CDPR are giving the option of playing as a woman, doesn't mean that it won't just be a texture swap for a male written character. That sort of thing happens a lot; even femshep suffered from it. It's a difficult thing to do and requires additional investment. I am not qualified to say how the PC may react differently, or what their views may be - however oddly enough I found the Saints Row series (3 + 4) did the difference very well. Like the female inquisitor walking like a gorilla during cinematic cutscenes because those lazy devs couldn't be bothered with diferent animations for different genders?
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Post by rras1994 on Nov 6, 2017 13:48:08 GMT
Just because CDPR are giving the option of playing as a woman, doesn't mean that it won't just be a texture swap for a male written character. That sort of thing happens a lot; even femshep suffered from it. It's a difficult thing to do and requires additional investment. I am not qualified to say how the PC may react differently, or what their views may be - however oddly enough I found the Saints Row series (3 + 4) did the difference very well. I'm just going to point out that the article doen't actually say you can create a male/female character it says you deal with "his or hers problems". That could mean you create the character and choose the gender or yopu could be stuck playing specific characters in the game, like mainly playing Gerault in The Witcher 3 and playing as Ciri in some parts. The article is alos 5 years old so I would really take it with a pinch of salt. There really not a lot of details about Cyberpunk 2077 out at the moment, the only thing really confirmed is that it's a single player RPG that will also come with a multiplayer component.
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