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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 16:24:20 GMT
Sorry, I didn't quite get it. What's stupid? the idea of "supposed" gambling introduced, they being investigated, or what exactly? Honestly, I thing they’re buying time while trying to figure out how to proceed. I don’t think they even know how to respond to this. Yeah, temporarily is a tricky word. At least they're being honest in saying "this will be back at some point". I'm seeing this as what Bethesda did with monetization of mods in Steam, it worked horrible so they closed it, one year after we got Creation Club which is essentially the same, but on a different platform. EA can't accept that people do not like microtransactions, for them it's like if people want games to be free, that's just not gonna happen. They'll be back obviously in some form, it's yet to be seen how the investigation is going to affect them, if Belgium found them "guilty" they'll have to pay a couple of thousand dollars in fines and the game will be banned from that country. Apparently China could join the investigation relatively soon, due to their intern policies and what not. While I agree I have to nitpick and say that the Creation Club is not paid mods. Other than that, I hear it became harder to find matches for the people that preordered the game on Thursday. No clue if that will continue with the official launch today.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 16:24:50 GMT
I understand it's out today. So how did people play it enough already to start up the drama? Some sort of a prerelease Trial or open beta? EA Access gives early access to new releases. Just like with Andromeda.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 16:27:44 GMT
I understand it's out today. So how did people play it enough already to start up the drama? Some sort of a prerelease Trial or open beta? People that preordered one of the editions were able to start playing at midnight 11/14 EST (9pm 11/13 PST). I imagine some of them already have full unlocks as well.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 17, 2017 16:30:57 GMT
That game had proper local multiplayer support too…. The most recent Battlefront 2 can't even be bothered to allow for a single split-screen partner to accompany the host into normal online multiplayer matches. A 12 year old game: 4 player split-screen capability, fully supported co-op campaign, and online/offline functionality vs. A brand new game (with 12 years of technological advancement and improved processing power behind it mind you): only 2 player split-screen in a half-assed throwaway 'arcade mode', and only available offline. Split screen is a thing? On consoles? Yeah us poor console plebs had to settle for dividing up our screens with friends back in the day The latest iteration of Battlefront, both the first and second games, have local multiplayer features but they are a pale, insulting comparison to what we had over a decade ago. What's funny is DICE actually touted an 'improved' split-screen feature as being one of the things they were going to work on for Battlefront 2, but surprise surprise, it's still limited to offline bot battles with only one other player. At the very least they should have let split-screen buddies join player one in online battles if they were going to remove campaign co-op and half the optional number of potential players.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 16:42:15 GMT
Split screen is a thing? On consoles? Yeah us poor console plebs had to settle for dividing up our screens with friends back in the day The latest iteration of Battlefront, both the first and second games, have local multiplayer features but they are a pale, insulting comparisons to what we had over a decade ago. What's funny is DICE actually touted an 'improved' split-screen feature as being one of the things they were going to work on for Battlefront 2, but surprise surprise, it's still limited to offline bot battles with only one other player. At the very least they should have let split-screen buddies join player one in online battles if they were going to remove campaign co-op and half the optional number of potential players. That makes sense, with plugging multiple controllers in and that. Maybe the Frostbite stuff is too intense to have split screen on consoles?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 16:48:33 GMT
And the amount of marketing money being dumped is staggering. I'm seeing Battlefront II adverts everywhere and repeatedly, as if in an attempt to drown the bad signal... They have to be in full panic mode right now. The ads alone are a mighty investment, and with the micro-transactions being in the current state that they are, I bet they're scrambling to try to make something out of this. Right now the only thing going for all of this is the fact that its a Star Wars game. If it were any other game, it'd be dead on arrival I suspect.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 17, 2017 16:54:59 GMT
Yeah us poor console plebs had to settle for dividing up our screens with friends back in the day The latest iteration of Battlefront, both the first and second games, have local multiplayer features but they are a pale, insulting comparisons to what we had over a decade ago. What's funny is DICE actually touted an 'improved' split-screen feature as being one of the things they were going to work on for Battlefront 2, but surprise surprise, it's still limited to offline bot battles with only one other player. At the very least they should have let split-screen buddies join player one in online battles if they were going to remove campaign co-op and half the optional number of potential players. That makes sense, with plugging multiple controllers in and that. Maybe the Frostbite stuff is too intense to have split screen on consoles? I don't buy that reasoning in gaming today personally. Seems to be motivated more out of laziness/greed than anything else. The fact that the game can already support two player split-screen proves that the engine and graphical fidelity isn't too intense for the addition of a second player. It just seems that publishers and developers, like EA & DICE, would much rather have players buy two copies of the game, two consoles, two TVs, and have access to two subscriptions of online services just to enjoy the current title with each other. Now if Battlefront had always been a single player franchise I wouldn't care so much, but the fact that a 12 year old game manages to have more features (local multiplayer and otherwise) than the latest title, which claims to draw inspiration from said game, just rubs me the wrong way.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 16:58:01 GMT
That makes sense, with plugging multiple controllers in and that. Maybe the Frostbite stuff is too intense to have split screen on consoles? I don't buy that reasoning in gaming today personally. Seems to be motivated more out of laziness/greed than anything else. The fact that the game can already support two player split-screen proves that the engine and graphical fidelity isn't too intense for the addition of a second player. It just seems that publishers and developers, like EA & DICE, would much rather have players buy two copies of the game, two consoles, two TVs, and have access to two subscriptions of online services just to enjoy the current title with each other. Now if Battlefront had always been a single player franchise I wouldn't care so much, but the fact that a 12 year old game manages to have more features (local multiplayer and otherwise) than the latest title, which claims to draw inspiration from said game, just rubs me the wrong way. Well, if it is capable of split screen - ye - I guess they are after more copies.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 17:25:33 GMT
Neither of them are heroes either.
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Post by Iakus on Nov 17, 2017 17:30:33 GMT
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 17, 2017 17:39:14 GMT
Now the question becomes will EA be releasing the game w/out the loot boxes, or will they only release the game once they think they managed to achieve this "balance". Because I'm interested in the game if there are no loot boxes in it. But I'm not buying a game if there will be loot box nonesense when I play it. Oh, no. The game is out already, boxes are not going anywhere. They just shutted down the microtransaction portion temporarily. So, people has to still buy boxes to get their stuff, but you cannot longer use IRL money to buy them. Temporarily.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 17:40:33 GMT
Sorry, I didn't quite get it. What's stupid? the idea of "supposed" gambling introduced, they being investigated, or what exactly? All of that.
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 17, 2017 17:45:41 GMT
Sorry, I didn't quite get it. What's stupid? the idea of "supposed" gambling introduced, they being investigated, or what exactly? All of that. So, you're basically saying that, in your opinion, loot boxes that give you random items and can be bought with real life money is definitely not a form of gambling. I got you right?
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 17, 2017 17:46:11 GMT
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 17:48:13 GMT
Sorry, I didn't quite get it. What's stupid? the idea of "supposed" gambling introduced, they being investigated, or what exactly? All of that. Here's where we learn Hanako is an EA chatbot...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 17:48:26 GMT
So, you're basically saying that, in your opinion, loot boxes that give you random items and can be bought with real life money is definitely not a form of gambling. I got you right? Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing in order to gain something, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 17:52:29 GMT
So, you're basically saying that, in your opinion, loot boxes that give you random items and can be bought with real life money is definitely not a form of gambling. I got you right? Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something. So what you're saying is, that Casinos can start handing out free food to people that are using their slot machines, playing cards, etc and since those people are receiving something for their money it no longer counts as gambling. Well, now gambling is no longer illegal in certain states, in fact athletes can now bet on their teams as long as they actually receive something when they make the bet! This is going to be great!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 17:54:50 GMT
Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something. So what you're saying is, that Casinos can start handing out free food to people that are using their slot machines, playing cards, etc and since those people are receiving something for their money it no longer counts as gambling. Well, now gambling is no longer illegal in certain states, in fact athletes can now bet on their teams as long as they actually receive something when they make the bet! This is going to be great! No, what I'm saying is that if every time someone plays at a casino they are guaranteed money or stuff back it is not gambling since they are guaranteed to get something for the money they spend.
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 17, 2017 17:57:26 GMT
So, you're basically saying that, in your opinion, loot boxes that give you random items and can be bought with real life money is definitely not a form of gambling. I got you right? Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something. Not necessarily. You can play a slot machine and get nothing, something, or a lot. It's a risk for a possible reward by waging money. In fact, I'm gonna quote good old wiki (you can laugh at the source if you want): Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. So with loot boxes, you use money to buy a crate, right? you're getting something, but you don't know what. Could be something good, could be trash. Chance is involved, the outcome is uncertain thus making it a gamble.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 18:04:51 GMT
Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something. Not necessarily. You can play a slot machine and get nothing, something, or a lot. It's a risk for a possible reward by waging money. In fact, I'm gonna quote good old wiki (you can laugh at the source if you want): Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. So with loot boxes, you use money to buy a crate, right? you're getting something, but you don't know what. Could be something good, could be trash. Chance is involved, the outcome is uncertain thus making it a gamble. As you said, when you play a slot machine, you can get nothing, something, or a lot and you risk your money to get one of those. But with loot boxes, there is no risk since you will only ever get something or a lot. There is no chance you'll get nothing, so there is no gamble thus not gambling. There is also a certain outcome. The loot box says what you can get, for example 1 Hero card, 1 Trooper card, 1 Starship card, Credits, etc. If that is gambling, then literally everything in the world is gambling since everything involving spending money involves an uncertain outcome on the product you are receiving.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 17, 2017 18:10:05 GMT
Can't say I'm surprised. Aside from EA/Dice making a decision to tie microtransactions/loot crates to progression or either forcing people to grind or pay, this whole outrage about mts/loot crates has been brewing for several months - and since Battlefront II is either last, or one of the last game blockbusters this year, they got doubly-slammed - if not triple-slammed, given that Disney, owner of SW franchise, has experienced its own share of controversies lately, which may have further compounded the anger.
It'd be curious to see what happens next. On one hand I can't say that I'm not a bit relieved that this is happening now and not during release of, say, Anthem. We have no idea whether it'd be the same situation, given that it's a different game that is also not tied to a behemoth of a franchise, but such vicious blowback will perhaps temper eagerness of those who'd like to see similar stuff in future titles published by EA. On the other hand it's uncertain whether a year is enough for most ruffled feathers to be smoothed out - I'm fairly sure that even without any such controversy, there will be a portion of gaming community looking for any opportunity to find something to be outraged about in what is expected to be a highly drummed-up release. All eyes will be on Anthem now.
Then there's an issue of what will happen if in case BFII fails to meet revenue expectations and what does it means for company as a whole. I mean... I don't expect for things to fall apart, lol. But if it went so far that EA/Dice decided to (temporarily) switch off microtransactions and rethink their model, it's not something that will not have a ripple effect and various consequences down the line.
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Post by Hrungr on Nov 17, 2017 18:48:23 GMT
Not necessarily. You can play a slot machine and get nothing, something, or a lot. It's a risk for a possible reward by waging money. In fact, I'm gonna quote good old wiki (you can laugh at the source if you want): Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. So with loot boxes, you use money to buy a crate, right? you're getting something, but you don't know what. Could be something good, could be trash. Chance is involved, the outcome is uncertain thus making it a gamble. As you said, when you play a slot machine, you can get nothing, something, or a lot and you risk your money to get one of those. But with loot boxes, there is no risk since you will only ever get something or a lot. There is no chance you'll get nothing, so there is no gamble thus not gambling. There is also a certain outcome. The loot box says what you can get, for example 1 Hero card, 1 Trooper card, 1 Starship card, Credits, etc. If that is gambling, then literally everything in the world is gambling since everything involving spending money involves an uncertain outcome on the product you are receiving. There are a number of problems with paid Loot Boxes. Firstly, they designed to be psychologically manipulative in the same way gambling is. It's a predatory practice, and specially vulnerable are those with addictive personalities. Look up "Skinner Boxes", "Variable Rate Reinforcement", and "Manipulating Dopamine Responses". They are designed specifically to get you to purchase more and more and more. Like feeding those slot machines. In that sense, they are like gambling, only with no "table limits", and no pesky age requirements. We know people drop hundreds, thousands of dollars on LBs in a single game. And of course, it's better to condition your market to these practices when they're young. The gaming industry is getting very good at funneling it's audience towards paid Loot Boxes, whether it's through subtle (and not-so-subtle) direction via the AI and presentation, to gameplay manipulation. Which brings us to our next point, and is the ways that the gaming industry manipulates gameplay, often in very subtle ways, to encourage more loot box purchases. Whether through grinding and unbalanced gameplay, to promoting the items in MP (especially from those who killed you), to matchmaking, to the various ways they direct you to their online stores, etc., etc. And it gets worse every year as they find new and more subtly insidious ways to direct their market towards buying them.
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 17, 2017 19:02:07 GMT
Now the question becomes will EA be releasing the game w/out the loot boxes, or will they only release the game once they think they managed to achieve this "balance". Because I'm interested in the game if there are no loot boxes in it. But I'm not buying a game if there will be loot box nonesense when I play it. Oh, no. The game is out already, boxes are not going anywhere. They just shutted down the microtransaction portion temporarily. So, people has to still buy boxes to get their stuff, but you cannot longer use IRL money to buy them. Temporarily. Yea, I guess I was just thinking wishfully. I own the original battlefront 2, if I need a battlefront fix that's where I'm going. Anyone else playing that game? If so, it might be fun to get a BSN match going.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 19:02:17 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company.
But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution?
Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction.
At this point, I just want to make a new Star Wars: Battlefront 2 thread that, you know, actually discusses the game and this kind of stuff not allowed. Any attempt at those conversations in here get drowned out by this nonsense.
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