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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 19:08:41 GMT
At this point, I just want to make a new Star Wars: Battlefront 2 thread that, you know, actually discusses the game and this kind of stuff not allowed. Any attempt at those conversations in here get drowned out by this nonsense. But... but we're discussing the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 19:10:48 GMT
At this point, I just want to make a new Star Wars: Battlefront 2 thread that, you know, actually discusses the game and this kind of stuff not allowed. Any attempt at those conversations in here get drowned out by this nonsense. But... but we're discussing the game. When in the last few pages has the story, characters, or gameplay been discussed? The only thing being discussed is microtransactions which this game is being crucified for because EA and yet other companies who do the exact same thing are getting a pass.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 19:13:56 GMT
But... but we're discussing the game. When in the last couple pages has the story, characters, or gameplay been discussed? The only thing being discussed is microtransactions which this game is being crucified for because EA and yet other companies who do the exact same thing are getting a pass. Well, it's part of the game and immensely interesting, for it could have some influence on future games and practices. Things like that don't happen every day.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 19:15:48 GMT
When in the last couple pages has the story, characters, or gameplay been discussed? The only thing being discussed is microtransactions which this game is being crucified for because EA and yet other companies who do the exact same thing are getting a pass. Well, it's part of the game and immensely interesting, for it could have some influence on future games and practices. Things like that don't happen every day. Then take it to the several other threads about it and have this thread be for people who actually want to discuss the rest of the game and enjoy it.
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 17, 2017 19:17:47 GMT
So what you're saying is, that Casinos can start handing out free food to people that are using their slot machines, playing cards, etc and since those people are receiving something for their money it no longer counts as gambling. Well, now gambling is no longer illegal in certain states, in fact athletes can now bet on their teams as long as they actually receive something when they make the bet! This is going to be great! No, what I'm saying is that if every time someone plays at a casino they are guaranteed money or stuff back it is not gambling since they are guaranteed to get something for the money they spend. I am 'guaranteed' as many free cocktails and mixed drinks as I like as long as I keep playing, I'd say your comparison falls flat on its face in so far as how actual casinos do business.
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 17, 2017 19:19:02 GMT
Well, it's part of the game and immensely interesting, for it could have some influence on future games and practices. Things like that don't happen every day. and have this thread be for people who actually want to discuss the rest of the game o.o The single player campaign is a flaming trash-heap, I didn't expect better but still, its good to be validated. Happy?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 19:24:26 GMT
and have this thread be for people who actually want to discuss the rest of the game o.o The single player campaign is a flaming trash-heap, I didn't expect better but still, its good to be validated. Happy? I'm not unhappy.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 17, 2017 19:25:09 GMT
I thought the campaign had potential from what little I saw of the first and second mission. Though I guess nuanced and morally grey story lines aren't very popular in star wars. Nope everything has to be black and white with the empire being stupid-evil on the moral chart. Seriously, I can get that maybe the Emperor was, you know, crazy and as such could conceivably concoct a plan of "If I can't have it, no one will." But what I can't understand is why the non-Force wielding military forces (who I tend to find cooler than another edge lord Sith master) would blindly follow said orders and kill their own loyal populations.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 17, 2017 19:26:50 GMT
Here's where we learn Hanako is an EA chatbot... Because she has a different opinion?
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 17, 2017 19:29:57 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company. But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution? Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction. Does battlefront 2, and/or origin? I don't know, I'm not a parent. As for the money they make back, do you want an answer to that? Because I could link at least 3 videos explaining how the idea that they aren't making enough money off game sales isn't taking one serious thing into account. The fact that, they wouldn't keep doing it, if it wasn't profitable. Companies are all about making a profit, they would stop doing something, if it wasn't making them enough money to turn a profit. What they did here, was implement a form of gambling, rewarding players who were willing to spend real world money, on top of the $60 asking price, to give them a distinct advantage over those who wouldn't. This would encourage more players to spend more money, to get that same advantage. Leaving behind those that can't, or won't, pay more money on top of the $60 asking price. And this form of gambling, comes on top of pre-order bonuses, deluxe editions, silver editions, gold editions, day one bugs (some of which don't get fixed any more), season passes, DLC not included in any afore mentioned bundles, and increasingly mediocre game play. Ideally, the perfect solution is DLC that wouldn't divide the player base. I believe the original Titanfall had a decent system, where some one who purchased the DLC, could host games on DLC maps, that other players who didn't buy the DLC could hop into. But charging for cosmetic items in a shop isn't bad either. So long as the items aren't simply better then the ones available in the game. Its an issue now, because they did their level best to milk consumers like cattle. No other game has done this to this extent, with such a mainstream title. Tbh, idk how people still play the sports and racing games that do this. I'd have walked away from those games after practices like these.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 19:35:09 GMT
I thought the campaign had potential from what little I saw of the first and second mission. Though I guess nuanced and morally grey story lines aren't very popular in star wars. Nope everything has to be black and white with the empire being stupid-evil on the moral chart. Seriously, I can get that maybe the Emperor was, you know, crazy and as such could conceivably concoct a plan of "If I can't have it, no one will." But what I can't understand is why the non-Force wielding military forces (who I tend to find cooler than another edge lord Sith master) would blindly follow said orders and kill their own loyal populations.
Well, from what I understood most people in the Empire's military wasn't aware of Operation: Cinder and those that were were selected because of their fanaticism which eventually leads to them forming the First Order. We see later in the game because of things like Operation: Cinder, defections among the Empire skyrocket while a lot just aren't aware thus are misled by those in the know. Personally I think Operation: Cinder would have made more sense if those doing it had it seem like the Rebels were behind it, thus turning the galaxy against them and crushing their hope and ruining them. But then Operation: Cinder is only a small part of the game since really it is only used on one Imperial world, since the second it was stopped and that planet was talking about joining the New Republic anyway so was technically an enemy planet. I did kind of like how it showed the difference between those who supported the Empire and those who support the First Order, having the line drawn in the sand.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 17, 2017 19:59:48 GMT
I thought the campaign had potential from what little I saw of the first and second mission. Though I guess nuanced and morally grey story lines aren't very popular in star wars. Nope everything has to be black and white with the empire being stupid-evil on the moral chart. Seriously, I can get that maybe the Emperor was, you know, crazy and as such could conceivably concoct a plan of "If I can't have it, no one will." But what I can't understand is why the non-Force wielding military forces (who I tend to find cooler than another edge lord Sith master) would blindly follow said orders and kill their own loyal populations.
Well, from what I understood most people in the Empire's military wasn't aware of Operation: Cinder and those that were were selected because of their fanaticism which eventually leads to them forming the First Order. We see later in the game because of things like Operation: Cinder, defections among the Empire skyrocket while a lot just aren't aware thus are misled by those in the know. Personally I think Operation: Cinder would have made more sense if those doing it had it seem like the Rebels were behind it, thus turning the galaxy against them and crushing their hope and ruining them. But then Operation: Cinder is only a small part of the game since really it is only used on one Imperial world, since the second it was stopped and that planet was talking about joining the New Republic anyway so was technically an enemy planet. I did kind of like how it showed the difference between those who supported the Empire and those who support the First Order, having the line drawn in the sand. That still doesn't explain how the Imperials, fanatical or no, ever thought that killing their own people, and destroying their own infrastructure would somehow "Make the Empire Great Again!" or defeat the Rebels for that matter.
Then again, the overarching plot of the series gives the First Order -godmode- levels of plot armor to not only hound the New Republic to the point they have to form a "Resistance" (despite being grossly outnumbered and lacking any form of support) as well as building StarKiller base (despite having less resources available then when they built the Deathstars) so I guess Operation: Cinder does pay off; thanks to the magical non-logic of poor storytelling.
I personally would have preferred to play as a true antagonist hero (not unlike the 501st in classic Battlefront 2) where we get to see the struggles and beliefs of someone on the opposite side of the fighting. Someone who fights a losing battle and maybe even dies preserving their ideals, something other people would say is the bad or evil side of things.
Having the main character just instantly jump ship and go all buddy buddy with the Rebels; a group she had spent a good portion of the game killing by the hundreds; and just instantly go about killing her own former brothers and sisters in arms without so much as a crisis of faith, or even a healthy dose of suspicion from the Republic forces was weak storytelling.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 17, 2017 20:00:50 GMT
So...EA has been doing what they have been doing for...well nearly a decade now...and just now people notice and start complaining about it? Am I right? It strikes me as one of those things where consumers were taken down the path one step at a time for years, then finally turned around and realized how far they'd been pushed. If that makes sense. the whole thing is rather ridiculous though. Did EA make it so you could win without paying additional money for it? Did EA force people to buy these loot boxes? Are the loot boxes things you can spend ingame or real world currency on which gives you random gear and skins? Does the gear in these lootboxes make it impossible to win the game if you didn't buy them? If the answer is yes then there is nothing wrong with them. Don't like them? Don't spend money on them.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 20:10:03 GMT
Well, it's part of the game and immensely interesting, for it could have some influence on future games and practices. Things like that don't happen every day. Then take it to the several other threads about it and have this thread be for people who actually want to discuss the rest of the game and enjoy it. No.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 17, 2017 20:14:20 GMT
Well, from what I understood most people in the Empire's military wasn't aware of Operation: Cinder and those that were were selected because of their fanaticism which eventually leads to them forming the First Order. We see later in the game because of things like Operation: Cinder, defections among the Empire skyrocket while a lot just aren't aware thus are misled by those in the know. Personally I think Operation: Cinder would have made more sense if those doing it had it seem like the Rebels were behind it, thus turning the galaxy against them and crushing their hope and ruining them. But then Operation: Cinder is only a small part of the game since really it is only used on one Imperial world, since the second it was stopped and that planet was talking about joining the New Republic anyway so was technically an enemy planet. I did kind of like how it showed the difference between those who supported the Empire and those who support the First Order, having the line drawn in the sand. That still doesn't explain how the Imperials, fanatical or no, ever thought that killing their own people, and destroying their own infrastructure would somehow "Make the Empire Great Again!" or defeat the Rebels for that matter.
Then again, the overarching plot of the series gives the First Order -godmode- levels of plot armor to not only hound the New Republic to the point they have to form a "Resistance" (despite being grossly outnumbered and lacking any form of support) as well as building StarKiller base (despite having less resources available then when they built the Deathstars) so I guess Operation: Cinder does pay off; thanks to the magical non-logic of poor storytelling.
I personally would have preferred to play as a true antagonist hero (not unlike the 501st in classic Battlefront 2) where we get to see the struggles and beliefs of someone on the opposite side of the fighting. Someone who fights a losing battle and maybe even dies preserving their ideals, something other people would say is the bad or evil side of things.
Having the main character just instantly jump ship and go all buddy buddy with the Rebels; a group she had spent a good portion of the game killing by the hundreds; and just instantly go about killing her own former brothers and sisters in arms without so much as a crisis of faith, or even a healthy dose of suspicion from the Republic forces was weak storytelling.
In terms of those Imperials who agree with that tactic, I don't find that unbelievable. After all in our own history we see multiple times where tyrannical regimes wipe out millions of their own people without a moment's hesitation.
As for your critiques about the First Order, I'll admit I haven't read the new books yet but isn't the Resistance not because the New Republic is on the run but because they didn't want to fight another war but enough people saw the writing on the wall so created the "independent" group the Resistance to fight them? As for Starkiller Base, I'm pretty sure it is stated that the First Order didn't build it but instead they found it in the Unknown Regions.
I agree it would have been preferable if Iden and her crew had stayed with the Empire for the majority of the game so we can better see that struggle and then maybe near the end they finally realize that the Empire they thought they served no longer exists and then defect rather than having it done a third of the game through. As you said, it would have humanized a lot of people on the other side, like the deleted scene from Return of the Jedi where Palpatine orders the Death Star to blow up Endor but the commander Moff Jerjerrod and crew hesitate because they have comrades down there before begrudgingly following their orders, with the delay being enough to spare the moon as at that moment Lando and Wedge reach the core and destroy it.
That said I still really like Iden's character and look forward to seeing what happens in the upcoming story DLC.
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Post by Vortex13 on Nov 17, 2017 20:16:02 GMT
It strikes me as one of those things where consumers were taken down the path one step at a time for years, then finally turned around and realized how far they'd been pushed. If that makes sense. the whole thing is rather ridiculous though. Did EA make it so you could win without paying additional money for it? Did EA force people to buy these loot boxes? Are the loot boxes things you can spend ingame or real world currency on which gives you random gear and skins? Does the gear in these lootboxes make it impossible to win the game if you didn't buy them? If the answer is yes then there is nothing wrong with them. Don't like them? Don't spend money on them. It not impossible to win without spending real world money, but the amount of skill and sheer levels of grind one would have to put in just to be on par with those who spent money was grossly imbalanced; which in a competitive video game is a real big no-no. To put it another way, is it possible to win an MMA fight against an opponent with both arms and one foot tied behind your back? Technically yes. Is it feasible that such a handicapped fighter will be actually be able to succeed on a regular basis? No. Being able to instantly unlock those objectively better bonuses with real world money sets that part of the player base up with an unfair advantage, a system that EA was only too willing to manipulate for more money. There was also the problem of the game actually locking you out of playing certain modes thanks to such a system: Ignoring that "oversight" as I'm sure EA would call it, getting maxed out star cards, or getting access to flat out better heroes is a definite problem. Seriously, does anyone honestly think that freebie hero Lando is even remotely balanced against characters like Yoda, Vader or Han Solo?
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 17, 2017 20:18:12 GMT
Well, from what I understood most people in the Empire's military wasn't aware of Operation: Cinder and those that were were selected because of their fanaticism which eventually leads to them forming the First Order. We see later in the game because of things like Operation: Cinder, defections among the Empire skyrocket while a lot just aren't aware thus are misled by those in the know. Personally I think Operation: Cinder would have made more sense if those doing it had it seem like the Rebels were behind it, thus turning the galaxy against them and crushing their hope and ruining them. But then Operation: Cinder is only a small part of the game since really it is only used on one Imperial world, since the second it was stopped and that planet was talking about joining the New Republic anyway so was technically an enemy planet. I did kind of like how it showed the difference between those who supported the Empire and those who support the First Order, having the line drawn in the sand. That still doesn't explain how the Imperials, fanatical or no, ever thought that killing their own people, and destroying their own infrastructure would somehow "Make the Empire Great Again!" or defeat the Rebels for that matter.
Then again, the overarching plot of the series gives the First Order -godmode- levels of plot armor to not only hound the New Republic to the point they have to form a "Resistance" (despite being grossly outnumbered and lacking any form of support) as well as building StarKiller base (despite having less resources available then when they built the Deathstars) so I guess Operation: Cinder does pay off; thanks to the magical non-logic of poor storytelling.
I personally would have preferred to play as a true antagonist hero (not unlike the 501st in classic Battlefront 2) where we get to see the struggles and beliefs of someone on the opposite side of the fighting. Someone who fights a losing battle and maybe even dies preserving their ideals, something other people would say is the bad or evil side of things.
Having the main character just instantly jump ship and go all buddy buddy with the Rebels; a group she had spent a good portion of the game killing by the hundreds; and just instantly go about killing her own former brothers and sisters in arms without so much as a crisis of faith, or even a healthy dose of suspicion from the Republic forces was weak storytelling.
Having the PC die assaulting Luke's Jedi Academy along with whatever ragged remnants of the squad remain by that point would have been a fitting end I think. Because I think you could play off the dynamic very well there, have the 'Kind and Noble' Jedi offer the wounded and defeated Imperial mercy, a reprieve from death and instead she demands it. She failed in her service, she failed her squadron, she failed her Empire, she'd rather go down with its wreckage then accept mercy from a 'terrorist'. ._. I would have enjoyed that sort of story, I would have written that sort of story, a story where you have a reeling Empire basically refocus its efforts on making the Rebellion bleed as much as they can for every inch of the Galaxy. It would have had questionable themes and mortality, you could potentially be labeled a terrorist for what I'd allow players to do, ya know, shooting civilians, bombing civilians, killing surrendering enemy personal, torture, and a whole assorted other bunch of nastiness that the Star Wars galaxy desperately needs back in it in my opinion. This Disney horseshit gutted its soul, I would restore it. ...With mature content, and graphic depictions of violence, and a Imperial Commando Squad taking the Rebellion to task on a increasingly deranged and insane revenge mission. All sorts of conflicting dynamics, views and politics on display, and I'd offer no real opinion in the game as to which side you should back, I'd bring up at the Galactic Empire while tyrannical, also offered a steady sort of existence there within for humanity, its not a glorious sort of life but its a life, and its more then you would have had under the Republic. Meanwhile you can play up that as a Imperial Commando you are bombing hospitals without remorse and that assorted shit, I wouldn't want to impose a moral conflict, I'd want it to be brought about naturally via progression in the game. But seriously...If you are going to play Spec Ops, you better nail the Spec Ops mentality. Storm Commandos, and other assorted Elite Units are fucking Fanatics. They would likely commit ritualistic suicide the spot out of disgrace if the Emperor's robes were dirtied by a improperly maintained landing ramp via his shuttle. I am not joking, the Empire had a tendency to sort of indoctrinate its military branches in the spec forces, not to mention that military service in general to the Empire sort of encourages you to play by party line, considering that's all but required if you want to go to a proper Military Academy.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 17, 2017 20:37:17 GMT
the whole thing is rather ridiculous though. Did EA make it so you could win without paying additional money for it? Did EA force people to buy these loot boxes? Are the loot boxes things you can spend ingame or real world currency on which gives you random gear and skins? Does the gear in these lootboxes make it impossible to win the game if you didn't buy them? If the answer is yes then there is nothing wrong with them. Don't like them? Don't spend money on them. It not impossible to win without spending real world money, but the amount of skill and sheer levels of grind one would have to put in just to be on par with those who spent money was grossly imbalanced; which in a competitive video game is a real big no-no. To put it another way, is it possible to win an MMA fight against an opponent with both arms and one foot tied behind your back? Technically yes. Is it feasible that such a handicapped fighter will be actually be able to succeed on a regular basis? No. Being able to instantly unlock those objectively better bonuses with real world money sets that part of the player base up with an unfair advantage, a system that EA was only too willing to manipulate for more money. There was also the problem of the game actually locking you out of playing certain modes thanks to such a system: Ignoring that "oversight" as I'm sure EA would call it, getting maxed out star cards, or getting access to flat out better heroes is a definite problem. Seriously, does anyone honestly think that freebie hero Lando is even remotely balanced against characters like Yoda, Vader or Han Solo? The imbalance is embedded into the game. It was their rationale for the MT "so late comers could always catch up". Now, to what level this imbalace will settle is yet to be seen - my guess is that it'll probably disincentivise a number of players.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 17, 2017 20:46:01 GMT
Anyone else feel that the campaign, while beautiful, became rather generic narrative-wise once Inferno Squad joins the Rebellion?
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 17, 2017 20:55:05 GMT
Anyone else feel that the campaign, while beautiful, became rather generic narrative-wise once Inferno Squad joins the Rebellion? Its beautiful?
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Post by river82 on Nov 17, 2017 20:58:01 GMT
If Loot boxes are deemed to be "gambling" I'm looking forward to the Magic the Gathering card pack, Pokemon card packs, sporting card packs and pretty much every collectable card game to be nailed for the same thing. People have been attempting to get loot boxes restricted under gambling for a while and they've failed at every turn, for obvious reasons (which is the player or consumer is always guaranteed to receive content or a "prize" with loot boxes and you can't have a gambling system where "everybody wins".)
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Post by river82 on Nov 17, 2017 21:02:03 GMT
Yes, it is not gambling. In gambling you risk losing what you have for nothing, whereas with loot boxes you are guaranteed something. So what you're saying is, that Casinos can start handing out free food to people that are using their slot machines, playing cards, etc and since those people are receiving something for their money it no longer counts as gambling. No, the handing out of free food is a separate act from the act of gambling. If each time they place money in the slot they receive something in return, then it's not gambling.
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 17, 2017 21:18:17 GMT
This Disney horseshit gutted its soul, I would restore it. ...With mature content, and graphic depictions of violence While I very much appreciate the rest of the post and especially in SciFi I like mature, conflicting and morally grey stories much better than the b/w cliches, I have to hook in here and say: SW was in its original form always a very Disney-esque franchise. IMO, graphic depictions of violence and such do not fit with the style that Lucas set up for the series ever since Episode 4. Other than some alien slime when Obi-Wan cuts off the arm of that guy in the bar, I can't remember ever even seeing a drop of blood in the movies. And from an interview I saw with Lucas back in the day, that was very much on purpose. So IMO, SW actually fits very well into Disnay's scheme of family friendly movies. Whatever you or I would like it to be, saying that Disney's approach to SW gutted it's soul is fairly ludicrous since SW's soul was from it's very conception pretty cliched and family/teen-oriented space fantasy. If anything, I'd say that with Rogue One Disney produced the most grimdark SW movie ever made.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 12,982 Likes: 21,015
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sjsharp2010
Go Team!
12,982
December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 17, 2017 21:34:52 GMT
Is the game released yet or not? I am so confused with all the drama. yes it officially released today
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,842 Likes: 13,521
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∯ Interjector in Chief
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13,521
Heimdall
5,842
August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 17, 2017 21:36:17 GMT
I remember Lucas describing the original film as “a movie for twelve year olds.” And it was, I mean that in a good way, it was a family friendly adventure film.
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