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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 17, 2017 21:43:17 GMT
This Disney horseshit gutted its soul, I would restore it. ...With mature content, and graphic depictions of violence While I very much appreciate the rest of the post and especially in SciFi I like mature, conflicting and morally grey stories much better than the b/w cliches, I have to hook in here and say: SW was in its original form always a very Disney-esque franchise. IMO, graphic depictions of violence and such do not fit with the style that Lucas set up for the series ever since Episode 4. Other than some alien slime when Obi-Wan cuts of the arm of that guy in the bar, I con't remember ever even seeing a drop of blood in the movies. And from an interview I saw with Lucas back in the day, that was very much on purpose. So IMO, SW actually fits very well into Disnay's scheme of family friendly movies. What you or I would like it to be, saying that Disney's approach to SW gutted it's soul is fairly ludicrous since SW's soul was from it's very conception pretty cliched and family/teen-oriented future fantasy. If anything, I'd say that with Rogue One Disney produced the most grimdark SW movies ever made. Well, there was Luke and Anakin's hand being cut off. While there is violence (especially the end of Sith). It wouldn't even come close to Game of Thrones level of violence. I felt the sp campaign fit, so that's how I feel.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 17, 2017 21:44:26 GMT
This Disney horseshit gutted its soul, I would restore it. ...With mature content, and graphic depictions of violence While I very much appreciate the rest of the post and especially in SciFi I like mature, conflicting and morally grey stories much better than the b/w cliches, I have to hook in here and say: SW was in its original form always a very Disney-esque franchise. IMO, graphic depictions of violence and such do not fit with the style that Lucas set up for the series ever since Episode 4. Other than some alien slime when Obi-Wan cuts of the arm of that guy in the bar, I con't remember ever even seeing a drop of blood in the movies. And from an interview I saw with Lucas back in the day, that was very much on purpose. So IMO, SW actually fits very well into Disnay's scheme of family friendly movies. What you or I would like it to be, saying that Disney's approach to SW gutted it's soul is fairly ludicrous since SW's soul was from it's very conception pretty cliched and family/teen-oriented future fantasy. If anything, I'd say that with Rogue One Disney produced the most grimdark SW movies ever made. Rogue One being grimdark makes me laugh. I've seen episodes of Spongebob and Steven Universe that were darker then it. Regardless though you are right. Star Wars was always cookie-cutter heroic fantasy where the good guys are literally prophesied to win. Lucas unapologetically ripped of the Heroes Journey mono-myth and just decided to go full blast with it. I mean, sure bad things happen (planets getting blown, dismemberment, torture, etc) but in the end the good guys win and the bad guys lose. That is Star Wars. It's not House of Cards, it's not Breaking Bad, and it's not Warhammer 40K. It's a child's fantasy and that's alright. If people get bored with that, well, there's literally billions of other stories and franchises they can enjoy.
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Post by AnDromedary on Nov 17, 2017 22:10:50 GMT
Rogue One being grimdark makes me laugh. I've seen episodes of Spongebob and Steven Universe that were darker then it. I said it "the most grimdark SW movie", which I stand by. After all, the empire is in full swing, the galaxy is not in a good place and the entire group of protagonists dies. Compared to that, any other SW movie was a birthday party. Well, there was Luke and Anakin's hand being cut off. While there is violence (especially the end of Sith). It wouldn't even come close to Game of Thrones level of violence. I felt the sp campaign fit, so that's how I feel. Here as well, please read carefully. I never said there was no violence (obviously there is). I (and the person I quoted) said "graphic depiction of violence". Even when people get limbs cut off, there is basically no blood because light sabers instantly cauterize the wound (and IIRC Lucas said this was on purpose to keep the movies family friendly).
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 17, 2017 22:53:55 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company. But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution? Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction. Your arguments have been sufficiently refuted, just needed to get that off my chest. That you enjoy the game, is good. Have fun.
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 17, 2017 23:06:55 GMT
This Disney horseshit gutted its soul, I would restore it. ...With mature content, and graphic depictions of violence While I very much appreciate the rest of the post and especially in SciFi I like mature, conflicting and morally grey stories much better than the b/w cliches, I have to hook in here and say: SW was in its original form always a very Disney-esque franchise. IMO, graphic depictions of violence and such do not fit with the style that Lucas set up for the series ever since Episode 4. Other than some alien slime when Obi-Wan cuts off the arm of that guy in the bar, I can't remember ever even seeing a drop of blood in the movies. And from an interview I saw with Lucas back in the day, that was very much on purpose. So IMO, SW actually fits very well into Disnay's scheme of family friendly movies. Whatever you or I would like it to be, saying that Disney's approach to SW gutted it's soul is fairly ludicrous since SW's soul was from it's very conception pretty cliched and family/teen-oriented space fantasy. If anything, I'd say that with Rogue One Disney produced the most grimdark SW movie ever made. *Sigh*Let's do it then shall we? Note what I said, its soul, the thing that emerged over the decades post Lucas's films, the thing that actually made that bland universe vibrant and colorful, the expansion upon the lore and history of the setting beyond what that fella envisioned in his 'classic' retelling of underdog vs impossible odds, good vs evil, yadda fucking yadda. The EU. In the EU we had Rakgauls, Technobeasts, Bio-Weapons that would actually dissolve living tissue(like Sarin on crack basically), Sith blood rituals that cleansed planets, terrorism, rampant mass murder, corruption, rape, anything and everything you can likely imagine was at one probably in the EU, for shock value if nothing else. Anything from Storm Trooper zombies(Death Troopers) to Bobba Fett blowing a dude's head off with a point blank rocket barrage. It may have never made it to film, it may have never made it to television(for obvious reasons, it'd kill the kid friendly family pictures that folks want to make profit of) but it was there. That's what I would want to revive, that sense that this is indeed a galactic civil war that has claimed hundreds of millions of lives, and will claim countless hundreds of millions more. And in this bloody civil war, there are good people, bad people, good ideas, bad ideas, people with altruism, and those with greed, the corrupt, and the innocent, the world weary and the naive. I would want that.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 17, 2017 23:09:51 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company. But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution? Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction. Because that game was free and you didn't have to shell out $59.99-79.99 to play it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2017 23:19:42 GMT
I thought the campaign had potential from what little I saw of the first and second mission. Though I guess nuanced and morally grey story lines aren't very popular in star wars. Nope everything has to be black and white with the empire being stupid-evil on the moral chart. Seriously, I can get that maybe the Emperor was, you know, crazy and as such could conceivably concoct a plan of "If I can't have it, no one will." But what I can't understand is why the non-Force wielding military forces (who I tend to find cooler than another edge lord Sith master) would blindly follow said orders and kill their own loyal populations.
SP was fun and pretty good if you simply judge it by the standards of being what SW usually is. From my end most of the disappointment is that they had the opportunity to get serious and actually say something of note (kind of like Rouge One started to get into with its portrayal of the Rebels), but ended up kinda fudging it from a narrative perspective (essentially with what you've detailed in your spoiler). Definitely enjoyed the first half or so of the game most, but the rest wasn't necessarily bad. This is of course, just my opinion. I like the characters at least. Some small niggles (which mostly have to do with the narrative) aside, Iden's a cool addition, as is Shriv (a gruff, snarky Duros who is a prominent NPC). All the legacy characters are done well. Another thing I liked is that given the nature of the protaganist as a glorified grunt, most of the time is spent away from Jedi/Sith issues (and the lone mission where you play Luke is interesting for his character arc), so you get a more "normie" perspective than often is the case in SW. Level design is pretty well done. There's a nice mix of ground and air/space combat that you often transition between (e.g. fly around a bit, land your fighter on an enemy ship to shoot some dudes etc.). Maybe a bit linear, depending on the mission, but that's par for the course in this genre. The mechanics are solid and polished, and there's relatively few bugs that I'm aware of. Garbagepile straw capitalist tactics the publisher has engaged in with it notwithstanding, it's pretty much a straight upgrade to the previous DICE Battlefront, IMO.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 18, 2017 0:06:27 GMT
While I very much appreciate the rest of the post and especially in SciFi I like mature, conflicting and morally grey stories much better than the b/w cliches, I have to hook in here and say: SW was in its original form always a very Disney-esque franchise. IMO, graphic depictions of violence and such do not fit with the style that Lucas set up for the series ever since Episode 4. Other than some alien slime when Obi-Wan cuts off the arm of that guy in the bar, I can't remember ever even seeing a drop of blood in the movies. And from an interview I saw with Lucas back in the day, that was very much on purpose. So IMO, SW actually fits very well into Disnay's scheme of family friendly movies. Whatever you or I would like it to be, saying that Disney's approach to SW gutted it's soul is fairly ludicrous since SW's soul was from it's very conception pretty cliched and family/teen-oriented space fantasy. If anything, I'd say that with Rogue One Disney produced the most grimdark SW movie ever made. *Sigh*Let's do it then shall we? Note what I said, its soul, the thing that emerged over the decades post Lucas's films, the thing that actually made that bland universe vibrant and colorful, the expansion upon the lore and history of the setting beyond what that fella envisioned in his 'classic' retelling of underdog vs impossible odds, good vs evil, yadda fucking yadda. The EU. In the EU we had Rakgauls, Technobeasts, Bio-Weapons that would actually dissolve living tissue(like Sarin on crack basically), Sith blood rituals that cleansed planets, terrorism, rampant mass murder, corruption, rape, anything and everything you can likely imagine was at one probably in the EU, for shock value if nothing else. Anything from Storm Trooper zombies(Death Troopers) to Bobba Fett blowing a dude's head off with a point blank rocket barrage. It may have never made it to film, it may have never made it to television(for obvious reasons, it'd kill the kid friendly family pictures that folks want to make profit of) but it was there. That's what I would want to revive, that sense that this is indeed a galactic civil war that has claimed hundreds of millions of lives, and will claim countless hundreds of millions more. And in this bloody civil war, there are good people, bad people, good ideas, bad ideas, people with altruism, and those with greed, the corrupt, and the innocent, the world weary and the naive. I would want that. I generally disagree with much of your POV, but this post is fucking spot on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 0:33:41 GMT
*Sigh*Let's do it then shall we? Note what I said, its soul, the thing that emerged over the decades post Lucas's films, the thing that actually made that bland universe vibrant and colorful, the expansion upon the lore and history of the setting beyond what that fella envisioned in his 'classic' retelling of underdog vs impossible odds, good vs evil, yadda fucking yadda. The EU. In the EU we had Rakgauls, Technobeasts, Bio-Weapons that would actually dissolve living tissue(like Sarin on crack basically), Sith blood rituals that cleansed planets, terrorism, rampant mass murder, corruption, rape, anything and everything you can likely imagine was at one probably in the EU, for shock value if nothing else. Anything from Storm Trooper zombies(Death Troopers) to Bobba Fett blowing a dude's head off with a point blank rocket barrage. It may have never made it to film, it may have never made it to television(for obvious reasons, it'd kill the kid friendly family pictures that folks want to make profit of) but it was there. That's what I would want to revive, that sense that this is indeed a galactic civil war that has claimed hundreds of millions of lives, and will claim countless hundreds of millions more. And in this bloody civil war, there are good people, bad people, good ideas, bad ideas, people with altruism, and those with greed, the corrupt, and the innocent, the world weary and the naive. I would want that. I generally disagree with much of your POV, but this post is fucking spot on. I wouldn't expect much of those types of stories to return with Disney having final say on canon. About the closest you'll get is things like the Tarkin novel.
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Post by CrazyRah on Nov 18, 2017 0:50:29 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company. But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution? Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction. Because that game was free and you didn't have to shell out $59.99-79.99 to play it. That this even has to be stated is just mindboggling. A comparison between the two is at best utterly ridiculous
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 0:50:49 GMT
I'm just gonna drop this here and call it for today:
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 18, 2017 0:54:12 GMT
Absolute nonsense. Every system has ways to prevent kids from spending the money on the credit card on the system, for example locking it until the adult enters a code they made. So this whole "It's targeting the children" argument falls flat since at that point it is on the parents, not the company. But here, let me ask all of you a question: How do you think they should be reimbursed for all the post-release stuff they do? That have to make that money back somehow, so by all means let's hear your sage wisdom. Do they go back to charging for the DLCs thus breaking up the playerbase? That's bad enough, but not to mention they said the DLCs would be free so they'd be going back on their word which you people would certainly jump on them for. They can't do it for free because believe it or not they are people who need money to support their families and stuff. So what is the perfect solution? Also, how come this is only an issue now? When for example the almighty CDPR did this exact thing for their Gwent game(you know, the game that in the Witcher universe is an actual gambling game) there wasn't nearly this level of reaction. Because that game was free and you didn't have to shell out $59.99-79.99 to play it. It is still just as much promoting gambling in games as this game is. But what a surprise, CDPR gets an exception. Shocker.
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Post by masterwarderz on Nov 18, 2017 1:34:45 GMT
Because that game was free and you didn't have to shell out $59.99-79.99 to play it. It is still just as much promoting gambling in games as this game is. But what a surprise, CDPR gets an exception. Shocker. EA being evil douchebags for a long time might have had something to do with it as well, the reaction to this nonsense I mean.
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Post by Lorn on Nov 18, 2017 4:06:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 4:07:19 GMT
not even really mad at the situation but the memes are classic.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 18, 2017 4:10:45 GMT
I feel sorry for EA (thanks for that) seems they can't fart without causing 'controversy'.
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Post by Gandalf the Fabulous on Nov 18, 2017 4:25:46 GMT
I feel sorry for EA (thanks for that) seems they can't fart without causing 'controversy'. It is a grave they dug themselves, it seriously isn't that hard to build goodwill by showing a modicum of respect to your consumer base however EA constantly took the piss and pushed the limits of what the consumers would accept and finally reached breaking point. You reap what you sow and with EA constantly taking advantage of their consumers this was always going to happen sooner or later, I am only disappointed that this did not happen sooner.
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Post by bizantura on Nov 18, 2017 8:52:59 GMT
It does not amaze me that numbers of people go for a greed model in gaming. What bothers me is that every genre now gets shoehorned into that online greed model. Might be some ramblings now but within 10 years it will be established fact and someone will have figured out how much microtransactions to buy up front to get to a more stable playing field again.
Most excuses are always about money making but even those poor big shot Bioware employees managed to own a plane for hobby flying. And Bioware is not the hottest selling game developer so when is enough enough? By Western freedom loving standards, no barriers concerning greed since blatant opportunism rules. Just sad this Western mantra virtue has become so mainstream!
I have no illusions where the big gaming companies are headed with gaming and view on the gaming community, milking cattle dry to the bone.
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 18, 2017 13:04:47 GMT
Not necessarily. You can play a slot machine and get nothing, something, or a lot. It's a risk for a possible reward by waging money. In fact, I'm gonna quote good old wiki (you can laugh at the source if you want): Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value (referred to as "the stakes") on an event with an uncertain outcome with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. So with loot boxes, you use money to buy a crate, right? you're getting something, but you don't know what. Could be something good, could be trash. Chance is involved, the outcome is uncertain thus making it a gamble. As you said, when you play a slot machine, you can get nothing, something, or a lot and you risk your money to get one of those. But with loot boxes, there is no risk since you will only ever get something or a lot. There is no chance you'll get nothing, so there is no gamble thus not gambling. There is also a certain outcome. The loot box says what you can get, for example 1 Hero card, 1 Trooper card, 1 Starship card, Credits, etc. If that is gambling, then literally everything in the world is gambling since everything involving spending money involves an uncertain outcome on the product you are receiving. Not getting something in return is not the only condition for a gambling practice. Chance is involved because even if the box say "you get 1 hero and one vehicle card" you don't see exactly what you're getting, the content has a random factor. You have half the information to know what you're buying. It's like going to a grocery store and the manager says "in this bag here you're gonna find fruits, which ones? that's random" He tells you only part of the information you need. I think we're hitting a... I don't know how to call it, let's say "cultural difference" . I don't know if you're American, I'm going to assume you are, either that or your country has a different definition of gambling. Regardless, apparently in America loot boxes by law are not considered gambling because "you get something always out of them" which is agreed by many to be shady to say the least, but it hits one of those wonderful and handy legal gaps so, it's considered legal. Obviously in many European countries they have the concept much more defined, otherwise they wouldn't bother investigating in the first place. Whether or not you believe it's true, that's alright, it's your opinion. You like the game, you like the system, I'm happy for you. Although I personally don't think we should support this kind of stuff in our games. The thing is that this loot box stuff system is actually dangerous (as many already posted in other comments) for people with addictive tendencies, kids also shouldn't be exposed to the system, especially when the rating for the game is "T" , which is obviously their intent by not adding gore or blood into the game and have a much wider audience.
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 18, 2017 13:10:53 GMT
It does not amaze me that numbers of people go for a greed model in gaming. What bothers me is that every genre now gets shoehorned into that online greed model. Might be some ramblings now but within 10 years it will be established fact and someone will have figured out how much microtransactions to buy up front to get to a more stable playing field again. Most excuses are always about money making but even those poor big shot Bioware employees managed to own a plane for hobby flying. And Bioware is not the hottest selling game developer so when is enough enough? By Western freedom loving standards, no barriers concerning greed since blatant opportunism rules. Just sad this Western mantra virtue has become so mainstream! I have no illusions where the big gaming companies are headed with gaming and view on the gaming community, milking cattle dry to the bone. As I've said elsewhere, they keep this up and people will start looking more at Indies. It's gonna be the golden age for them, small studios that want to make games because they love making games and seeing people have fun with their games. Instead of mega corporations seeking how they can make even more money, which is their only goal.
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 18, 2017 13:12:15 GMT
Don't forget Battlefront II isn't the only Star Wars game. I haven't purchased Battlefront II because I don't really like PvP as well as the predatory stuff. However, for an authentic Star Wars experience with hero characters you can play from the start, there is a solution... So I've cranked up this baby for another playthrough.
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 18, 2017 13:17:33 GMT
I know it's not the only SW game. What bothers me, is how a perfectly fine game (admittedly with some balance issues at start) has to introduce anti consumer practices that completely ruin the experience for many of us, for the sake of making more money. I hope some day we can go back to the way it was, no boxes no garbage, just play the game and unlock guns and gear at normal rate.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Nov 18, 2017 14:49:30 GMT
Don't forget Battlefront II isn't the only Star Wars game. I haven't purchased Battlefront II because I don't really like PvP as well as the predatory stuff. However, for an authentic Star Wars experience with hero characters you can play from the start, there is a solution... So I've cranked up this baby for another playthrough. They are really fun games, and the "acting" of the Lego characters is quite hilarious!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire
mattig89ch
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 18, 2017 15:49:50 GMT
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colfoley
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Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 18, 2017 20:04:12 GMT
I feel sorry for EA (thanks for that) seems they can't fart without causing 'controversy'. It is a grave they dug themselves, it seriously isn't that hard to build goodwill by showing a modicum of respect to your consumer base however EA constantly took the piss and pushed the limits of what the consumers would accept and finally reached breaking point. You reap what you sow and with EA constantly taking advantage of their consumers this was always going to happen sooner or later, I am only disappointed that this did not happen sooner. not entirely. I mean if you say numerous 'digging their own graves' by 'doing nothing that really matters'. Then yes.
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