Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9445
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 3:38:50 GMT
The people who can perceive obvious cause and effect you obviously are wildly confused about what at least one of the above words means, in English... "obvious cause and effect", what a rube  You are either blissfully ignorant or purposfully obtuse. Which exactly, I cannot tell.  |
|
inherit
331
0
7,432
q5tyhj
deadhead chemistry
2,627
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Nov 3, 2017 3:48:49 GMT
you obviously are wildly confused about what at least one of the above words means, in English... "obvious cause and effect", what a rube You are either blissfully ignorant or purposfully obtuse.  no sense of irony or self-awareness whatsoever, eh? poor guy... |
|
inherit
535
0
4,337
clips7
MiNd...ExPaNsIoN....
1,829
August 2016
clips7
Blackgas7
|
Post by clips7 on Nov 3, 2017 4:00:55 GMT
I don't think a company can base a cancellation or failure of a game because of fans..or in this case "Andromeda's failure".....Andromeda just needed to be a better ME game. Yes the memes initially hurt the game when it first dropped, but if the game had implemented a solid story with interesting characters, those animation issues would not have stopped sales in the least....especially since anybody with half a brain knows those superficial issues can be patched.
You can't patch bad character/story design elements...those were the core issues affecting Andromeda. Look at how some people luv the fallout series.....(specifically fallout 3)...that game is a performance animated train-wreck, but it sold well and received a slew of DLC that was equally abysmal in terms of animation and framerate issues, but the game itself and story was a bit more interesting and compelling.
Yes it's setup a bit differently from ME, but my point was that the game has performance issues all over the mark and yet people are able to overlook that because the game is solid in story and game mechanics.....Andromeda is superior to that game in every way except where it matters.....story/writing and character development/design.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
3082
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 4:58:07 GMT
To me the gameplay improved and the writing got worse with each successive title in the trilogy. And after ME2, characters as well. Yes. ME2 felt like an intermission to me, like the writers ran out of material so they just did a bunch of character biographies. With ME3 the other species had no real reason to abandon their home systems and come to Earth like they did. |
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,003 Likes: 9,087
inherit
1561
0
9,087
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,003
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 3, 2017 5:14:31 GMT
And after ME2, characters as well. Yes. ME2 felt like an intermission to me, like the writers ran out of material so they just did a bunch of character biographies. With ME3 the other species had no real reason to abandon their home systems and come to Earth like they did. I think part of that is they had to pad out everything to try and give people want they kept saying they wanting. Mass Effect 1 is a very short game, a couple of months back I played Mass Effect 1 for the first time since the launch of Mass Effect 2 and I was able to beat the game in under four hours sticking to the critical path and companion quests. Nowadays people will bitch and moan if the game is "only" 25 hours long if they stick to the critical path. At some point the quality will suffer due to trying to cram in more content, which is what hurt Andromeda in my opinion was that they added more content which paused the story for long stretches hurting the flow. |
|
inherit
975
0
1,681
cloud9
3,876
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
|
Post by cloud9 on Nov 3, 2017 6:10:16 GMT
How anybody can be a fan of Mass Effect and dislike ME1 so much is beyond me. And for God's sake, can we stop trashing the combat of a TEN YEAR old game? An RPG for that matter. ME1 played fine back then and looked amazing. ME1's combat is servicible today and was servicible 10 years ago. It's combat has always been criticized. It did look extremely well for a 2007 game, although it was full of technical issues and terrible performance, something that would not be tolerated today. Hell Uncharted: Drake's Fortune combat design was way better than Mass Effect (2007) and they both released the same year! And BioWare half-assed on graphics, level design, and combat. While Naughty Dog put forth the effort on these elements and it was one of the best games in 2007, and BioWare didn't put that kind of passion on Mass Effect? It seems BioWare were screwing things up way before Mass Effect 3. |
|
inherit
1817
0
Nov 25, 2024 21:38:57 GMT
11,083
Kappa Neko
...lives for biotic explosions. And cheesecake!
4,195
Oct 18, 2016 21:17:18 GMT
October 2016
kappaneko
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Kappa Neko on Nov 3, 2017 8:57:37 GMT
Not a troll thread and not a bash ME1 thread. I personally don't like ME1 at all and yes, it's combat is laughably bad (as are its cliched story and cardboard characters), but that wasn't the purpose of the thread. Discussion the phenomenon of large groups of people getting more and more pissed after each release of ME. I understand and love characters and storytelling, hence why I play ME. You can make character presumptions based on your own disbelief if you like. I and many others have seen the trend of large groups of angry people the grow larger and more angry after each subsequent release of the franchise, more so than any other fanbase that I have been a part of. The shit flinging has gotten progressively worse as time went on and has indeed gotten worse with ME:A. Why? I dunno. My theory is that people believe all of this negativity and nonconstructive criticism is bad for the series and will eventually kill it (ME:A may have validated this theory) but that is just my theory. I have despised ME1 from day one, and not since ME:A. No knee jerk here, I assure you and it's combat sucked the day it came out, not just in 2017.  You have derailed your own thread into a pointless argument about the quality of ME1's combat that has nothing to do with your initial question. Somehow you seem to use ME1 as a crutch to support your argument that people don't like change and are stuck in their nostalgia for the good old days and this is why they don't like MEA. When nobody ever argued that ME1 had great combat ever. Some people prefer ME1's rolling the dice in the background RPG combat, but nobody is arguing that it was ME1's strength. Hell, most people seem to agree that gameplay is one of Bioware's weaknesses. DAO's combat was already dated when it came out too and yet people still love the game despite that. That MEA was not well received and support dropped has nothing to do with ME1's combat or ME1 in general. And I would guess it has nothing to do with the hostile haters either because they are not the majority. Even ME3 got DLC and MP updates despite the ending disaster because the majority apparently liked the game well enough for EA to consider DLC profitable. If combat (or graphics) was that important for a Bioware game, then MEA would at least still get MP support and the reception would have been better. Combat is the best feature of MEA, imo. But it's not why most people play Bioware games. Hence the backlash. Yes, there has always been backlash against the latest game as appealing to the filthy casuals but it was not that extreme. So I would disagree that it got progressively worse. Which lets me conclude that it's the game itself that generated this kind of reaction, warranted or not, not the fanbase being particularly hostile and regressive in general. When DAI came out, the majority liked it a lot. It was only after W3 came out that the shit flinging started and people changed their view on the open world aspect of the game. DAI's flaws became more apparent when the competition delivered. And then trolls arrived to trash the game and Bioware fans got defensive. MEA is BY FAR the worst received game in both current franchises. Both the media and BSN. |
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Nov 3, 2017 12:29:06 GMT
Look at how some people luv the fallout series.....(specifically fallout 3)...that game is a performance animated train-wreck, but it sold well and received a slew of DLC that was equally abysmal in terms of animation and framerate issues, but the game itself and story was a bit more interesting and compelling. I wouldn't mention Fallout or any Bethesda game in the same breath as Bioware. Bethesda games are sandboxes where a solid portion of the userbase expects the modding community to take care of the issues. For FO3 there are more than 14.000 mods up on the nexus alone. For FNV, by Obsidian, there are more than 18.000. No Bioware game ever did get that same kind of support and Bioware never really supported or encouraged modding in the first place. As opposed to Bethesda games, Bioware games are story and companion driven. So one should compare them on their own merit. Not even other outspoken RPGs fall into the same category, since they feature different mechanics that aren't everyone's cup of tea. Larian produces turn based games and Obsidian uses isometric environments. Both excellent in what they do, but a great many can't cope with the approach they have chosen. If you want to compare Bethesda to Bioware, it's only legit where both approaches overlap. And that is the open world aspect. In that aspect, even something as old as FO3 comes out on top in creating the illusion of the environment being alive. |
|
inherit
57
0
1
Nov 25, 2024 13:23:36 GMT
35,523
SofaJockey
Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
13,923
August 2016
sofajockey
SofaJockey
SofaJockey
6000
7164
|
Post by SofaJockey on Nov 3, 2017 12:57:08 GMT
I'd been holding off sharing my personal view, but here goes...
In respect of Mass Effect specifically, let's use an analogy.
The original Star Wars trilogy was very successful, obviously there was the first one, the darker (and in my view the best) follow-up episode and finally the one with Ewoks.
Then along comes The Phantom Menace and there are fights between those who think it's ok and those who feel betrayed.
I see a similar experience to the ME trilogy and MEA.
So is it just hating on the latest one, or is MEA the worst?
There is an element of hating on the last one, but only an element in my view.
I do think MEA is the worst of the four, and I liked the game (playing it through 4 full play-throughs and multiplayer) playing >600 hours.
Why the 'worst'?
Partly because the bar has been set high by the other series entries.
And the differentiating factor is not the gameplay or the animations, it's the story and the characters.
I've been posting 100 clips from Mass Effect these last 12 weeks in the run up to N7 Day.
Choosing clips from MEA has been harder and those character and story beats have been weaker than any other trilogy installment.
MEA is not bad as such, but it's a well-made TV movie, it's enjoyable enough, but doesn't have the story punches and the character investment to make it great.
I'm not blaming anyone, but (to use a Witcher III reference) this job should have been given to Yoana, not to Fergus.
We can look at Dragon Age to see how story and characters matter.
The awful reused resources in Dragon Age 2 can't quite kill a game with interesting characters and a story that has matured with age, despite trudging through the same 'cave' 50 times.
Dragon Age Inquisition also has interesting characters and strong (if uneven) story beats helped by DLC and mitigating tiresome side content.
The frustration for me is that MEA's gameplay is terrific, the protagonists, story and characters have the potential to be terrific.
But the delivery of the story and character stories wasn't strong enough.
Terrific writing can redeem a shaky game.
Terrific gameplay can't repair shaky writing.
I'll always like MEA, I think time will treat it a little more kindly as a 'moderate' entry in the series (assuming the series continues).
The skeptics are often too harsh, but at heart they are right, it wasn't up there with the others.
Current troubles are not the 'fault' of the skeptics, or the memes.
I've even seen it said that Mass Effect being canned is the fault of BSN.
Tough (and expensive) lesson for BioWare to swallow and in its impact on many people.
|
|
inherit
5079
0
Nov 25, 2024 16:14:33 GMT
1,825
ShadowAngel
#more Asari
1,599
Mar 19, 2017 16:14:51 GMT
March 2017
uegshadowangel
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
UEG ShadowAngel
|
Post by ShadowAngel on Nov 3, 2017 13:03:56 GMT
Look at how some people luv the fallout series.....(specifically fallout 3)...that game is a performance animated train-wreck, but it sold well and received a slew of DLC that was equally abysmal in terms of animation and framerate issues, but the game itself and story was a bit more interesting and compelling. I wouldn't mention Fallout or any Bethesda game in the same breath as Bioware. Bethesda games are sandboxes where a solid portion of the userbase expects the modding community to take care of the issues. For FO3 there are more than 14.000 mods up on the nexus alone. For FNV, by Obsidian, there are more than 18.000. No Bioware game ever did get that same kind of support and Bioware never really supported or encouraged modding in the first place. As opposed to Bethesda games, Bioware games are story and companion driven. So one should compare them on their own merit. Not even other outspoken RPGs fall into the same category, since they feature different mechanics that aren't everyone's cup of tea. Larian produces turn based games and Obsidian uses isometric environments. Both excellent in what they do, but a great many can't cope with the approach they have chosen. If you want to compare Bethesda to Bioware, it's only legit where both approaches overlap. And that is the open world aspect. In that aspect, even something as old as FO3 comes out on top in creating the illusion of the environment being alive. The point wasn't about their similarities and or issues. The dude said even with issues, Bethesda games are generally received pretty well. Andromedas case was it had no chance even with its flaws as the base game simply wasn't good enough to cover for its faults. We know Bethesda games tend to be the buggiest things ever, but most ignore it for a few reasons.1.modding and 2.base game is able to cover it. I mean there are various other games with technical issues that people have called out, but why does it slide by? Because the base game itself is good enough to cover that. (Not something I like about people but it's the norm). Andromedas issues for me wasn't primarily the bugs, animations andgraphical issues. It was all about the story, characters and streamlining the experience even further than 2+3 did that ruined it for me. So clips has a point, you could fix the bugs, but you can't patch my own issues without redoing the game and that isn't happening. |
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Nov 3, 2017 14:10:31 GMT
It was all about the story, characters and streamlining the experience even further than 2+3 did that ruined it for me. So clips has a point, you could fix the bugs, but you can't patch my own issues without redoing the game and that isn't happening. That and that it was quantity over quality. The game has been 60 percent too long, presenting mainly fillers instead of real content. You could spend countless hours collecting basically meaningless stuff or fighting trash mobs. The reason why Bethesda games are usually received differently are different expectations. The audience came to expect a meh story but lots of exploration and looting. And that's where they still deliver, even though FO4 wasn't as well received as previous titles either. With the Bioware audience expectations are different. People expect story and companions to draw you in. If they had delivered on that, the bugs wouldn't have hit as hard as they did. But still, you can't draw comparisons between different companies, since their core audience is different as are their expecations. FO4 for example was redeemed by the plethora of mods available not by the company. If Bethesda dropped modding support, they would face the same kind of shitstorm Bioware did, which, for one reason or other, never supported modding. You could get a small hint on what would happen to Bethesda when they introduced their paid mods. Something the vast myjority of the audience didn't want and didn't care about. But they were force fed into downloading the content, wether they actually wanted to activate it or not. That was not only eating up disk space but also rendered the popular F4SE useless and the modders behind it had to redo the tool to fit the latest version of the game. The shitstorm on different boards was enormous. |
|
inherit
3439
0
Member is Online
9,661
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,054
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Nov 3, 2017 14:22:35 GMT
I wouldn't mention Fallout or any Bethesda game in the same breath as Bioware. Bethesda games are sandboxes where a solid portion of the userbase expects the modding community to take care of the issues. For FO3 there are more than 14.000 mods up on the nexus alone. For FNV, by Obsidian, there are more than 18.000. No Bioware game ever did get that same kind of support and Bioware never really supported or encouraged modding in the first place. Not exactly never. There was NWN. OTOH, NWN really wasn't organised around modding the Bio campaigns. |
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 3, 2017 14:28:02 GMT
|
|
azarhal
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 9,754 Likes: 27,639
inherit
1519
0
27,639
azarhal
9,754
Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
September 2016
azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by azarhal on Nov 3, 2017 14:45:56 GMT
I wouldn't mention Fallout or any Bethesda game in the same breath as Bioware. Bethesda games are sandboxes where a solid portion of the userbase expects the modding community to take care of the issues. For FO3 there are more than 14.000 mods up on the nexus alone. For FNV, by Obsidian, there are more than 18.000. No Bioware game ever did get that same kind of support and Bioware never really supported or encouraged modding in the first place. Not exactly never. There was NWN. OTOH, NWN really wasn't organised around modding the Bio campaigns. To add to that. DAO had an editor to make new campaigns (didn't really took off, unlike NWN) and BG1/BG2 have a modding scenes that is still alive today (moved to the EE though, but still alive). David Gaider even made a mod for BG2 back in the days (Ascension). Even the supposedly unmoddable Frostbite didn't stop people from making mods for MEA and DAI (KoTOR and Jade Empire also had some fan mods). BioWare just have a much smaller modding community than Bethesda...and people don't expect to have to download 10gb of mods to have a functional game either. |
|
inherit
Psi-Cop
38
0
Feb 21, 2019 15:55:45 GMT
10,231
CrutchCricket
The Emperor Daft Serious
4,577
August 2016
crutchcricket
CrutchCricket
Mass Effect Trilogy
|
Post by CrutchCricket on Nov 3, 2017 14:46:34 GMT
And thus we learn that (some) fans are fickle and have the memory (and sometimes attention span) of goldfish. To be fair his ME games were critically hits, sold well, and won many GOTYs. RGB/holokid- that is all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9445
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 14:52:39 GMT
Lots of solid points here, so I'm just gonna cover what disagree with... bear with me. I don't think a company can base a cancellation or failure of a game because of fans..or in this case "Andromeda's failure".....Andromeda just needed to be a better ME game. Yes the memes initially hurt the game when it first dropped, but if the game had implemented a solid story with interesting characters, those animation issues would not have stopped sales in the least....especially since anybody with half a brain knows those superficial issues can be patched. You can't patch bad character/story design elements...those were the core issues affecting Andromeda. Look at how some people luv the fallout series.....(specifically fallout 3)...that game is a performance animated train-wreck, but it sold well and received a slew of DLC that was equally abysmal in terms of animation and framerate issues, but the game itself and story was a bit more interesting and compelling. Yes it's setup a bit differently from ME, but my point was that the game has performance issues all over the mark and yet people are able to overlook that because the game is solid in story and game mechanics.....Andromeda is superior to that game in every way except where it matters.....story/writing and character development/design. You discount Bethesda's ability to constantly release broken games and get a pass from both the press and the players. On a personal note, I never found the characters or story of the Fallout games to be more than just OK. I would consider ME:A's albeit weaker characters and story (in regards to the OT at least) to be far more compelling than Fallout, and frankly, I don't think Bethesda was even going for strong characters or a solid plot, but more an open world exploration game. Not to mention the stark difference in nearly all things between the two series which make the comparison seem out of place. Not a troll thread and not a bash ME1 thread. I personally don't like ME1 at all and yes, it's combat is laughably bad (as are its cliched story and cardboard characters), but that wasn't the purpose of the thread. Discussion the phenomenon of large groups of people getting more and more pissed after each release of ME. I understand and love characters and storytelling, hence why I play ME. You can make character presumptions based on your own disbelief if you like. I and many others have seen the trend of large groups of angry people the grow larger and more angry after each subsequent release of the franchise, more so than any other fanbase that I have been a part of. The shit flinging has gotten progressively worse as time went on and has indeed gotten worse with ME:A. Why? I dunno. My theory is that people believe all of this negativity and nonconstructive criticism is bad for the series and will eventually kill it (ME:A may have validated this theory) but that is just my theory. I have despised ME1 from day one, and not since ME:A. No knee jerk here, I assure you and it's combat sucked the day it came out, not just in 2017. You have derailed your own thread into a pointless argument about the quality of ME1's combat that has nothing to do with your initial question. Somehow you seem to use ME1 as a crutch to support your argument that people don't like change and are stuck in their nostalgia for the good old days and this is why they don't like MEA. When nobody ever argued that ME1 had great combat ever. Some people prefer ME1's rolling the dice in the background RPG combat, but nobody is arguing that it was ME1's strength. Hell, most people seem to agree that gameplay is one of Bioware's weaknesses. DAO's combat was already dated when it came out too and yet people still love the game despite that. That MEA was not well received and support dropped has nothing to do with ME1's combat or ME1 in general. And I would guess it has nothing to do with the hostile haters either because they are not the majority. Even ME3 got DLC and MP updates despite the ending disaster because the majority apparently liked the game well enough for EA to consider DLC profitable. If combat (or graphics) was that important for a Bioware game, then MEA would at least still get MP support and the reception would have been better. Combat is the best feature of MEA, imo. But it's not why most people play Bioware games. Hence the backlash. Yes, there has always been backlash against the latest game as appealing to the filthy casuals but it was not that extreme. So I would disagree that it got progressively worse. Which lets me conclude that it's the game itself that generated this kind of reaction, warranted or not, not the fanbase being particularly hostile and regressive in general. When DAI came out, the majority liked it a lot. It was only after W3 came out that the shit flinging started and people changed their view on the open world aspect of the game. DAI's flaws became more apparent when the competition delivered. And then trolls arrived to trash the game and Bioware fans got defensive. MEA is BY FAR the worst received game in both current franchises. Both the media and BSN. Yeah, the thread did get a bit derailed, but a lot of posters took it as a "rank the franchise" sorta deal. I don't have any sort of control over that. That being said, the fairest comparison in my eyes for ME:A vs a game in the OT is ME:A vs ME1 Also, ME:A still is getting MP support... not sure were you are getting that from. MP support is the only remaining support. I'd been holding off sharing my personal view, but here goes... In respect of Mass Effect specifically, let's use an analogy. The original Star Wars trilogy was very successful, obviously there was the first one, the darker (and in my view the best) follow-up episode and finally the one with Ewoks. Then along comes The Phantom Menace and there are fights between those who think it's ok and those who feel betrayed. I see a similar experience to the ME trilogy and MEA. So is it just hating on the latest one, or is MEA the worst? There is an element of hating on the last one, but only an element in my view. I do think MEA is the worst of the four, and I liked the game (playing it through 4 full play-throughs and multiplayer) playing >600 hours. Why the 'worst'? Partly because the bar has been set high by the other series entries. And the differentiating factor is not the gameplay or the animations, it's the story and the characters. I've been posting 100 clips from Mass Effect these last 12 weeks in the run up to N7 Day. Choosing clips from MEA has been harder and those character and story beats have been weaker than any other trilogy installment. MEA is not bad as such, but it's a well-made TV movie, it's enjoyable enough, but doesn't have the story punches and the character investment to make it great. I'm not blaming anyone, but (to use a Witcher III reference) this job should have been given to Yoana, not to Fergus. We can look at Dragon Age to see how story and characters matter. The awful reused resources in Dragon Age 2 can't quite kill a game with interesting characters and a story that has matured with age, despite trudging through the same 'cave' 50 times. Dragon Age Inquisition also has interesting characters and strong (if uneven) story beats helped by DLC and mitigating tiresome side content. The frustration for me is that MEA's gameplay is terrific, the protagonists, story and characters have the potential to be terrific. But the delivery of the story and character stories wasn't strong enough. Terrific writing can redeem a shaky game. Terrific gameplay can't repair shaky writing. I'll always like MEA, I think time will treat it a little more kindly as a 'moderate' entry in the series (assuming the series continues). The skeptics are often too harsh, but at heart they are right, it wasn't up there with the others. Current troubles are not the 'fault' of the skeptics, or the memes. I've even seen it said that Mass Effect being canned is the fault of BSN. Tough (and expensive) lesson for BioWare to swallow and in its impact on many people. I don't agree that ME:A is the worst ME game, but I get were your coming from. My priorities in what makes a good game are different from most of the posters here.
Addressing all three of you here:We live in a day in age in which social media has become a ubiquitous part of nearly everyone's daily life. The problem is that this social media encourages short posts with next to zero nuance in them. You can't tell me that this didn't effect ME:A in a bad way. I'm not saying that it is the only contributing factor, but I can't come to any other conclusion than that it did indeed have a impact. The EA, BioWare, and Mass Effect social media pages all saw the same response. It was one of 3 things. Praise for ME:A, but vague in nature and sparse (people don't generally give a damn enough to post unless they are angry and that skews feedback into the negative), hate on ME:A that essentially amount to "this game is trash" without any form of constructive criticism, or memes mocking the admittedly broken animations. Other EA games that have done about the same as ME:A in critical reception and guesstimated sales have received DLC, so why not ME:A? My conclusion? Overwhelming reactions on social media and those reactions were the stereotypical, nonconstructive bullshit that those platforms breed. BSN had plenty of well thought-out criticism and I don't consider us here to be part of the social media problem, but EA doesn't give a rat's ass about the feedback here, that much is crystal clear. ME:A wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be, but the vocal hate that contained nothing but vitriol and were entirely deconstructive against it was the final nail in the casket in EA's eyes, and hence, SP support was done, DLC was canceled, and the entirety of the fandom suffers. That is the difference between ME:A and lets say Dead Space 3, which did get at least one DLC. |
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Nov 3, 2017 15:11:18 GMT
Even the supposedly unmoddable Frostbite didn't stop people from making mods for MEA and DAI (KoTOR and Jade Empire also had some fan mods). It's not to say there are no mods at all. But compare the sheer numbers. 21.000 for FO4, 2600 for the most moddable Bioware game, which was DAO. 315 or something for MEA, most of them character presets and nerfs. All done using ingame assets. Hardly anything, if anything at all, done from scratch. It would effect any game in this day and age, so the explanation falls short on several levels. Unless one is to go back to the cheap explanations of fans homing in on Bioware and no other company. But it doesn't. Games come out, most games are forgotten within a few months, some stay on the radar. Companies have to deal with the new media, that's for sure. But that doesn't mean social media made it easier for some and harder for others. The playing field is still on the same level. |
|
inherit
3439
0
Member is Online
9,661
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
8,054
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Nov 3, 2017 15:29:33 GMT
Yes. ME2 felt like an intermission to me, like the writers ran out of material so they just did a bunch of character biographies. With ME3 the other species had no real reason to abandon their home systems and come to Earth like they did. I think part of that is they had to pad out everything to try and give people want they kept saying they wanting. Mass Effect 1 is a very short game, a couple of months back I played Mass Effect 1 for the first time since the launch of Mass Effect 2 and I was able to beat the game in under four hours sticking to the critical path and companion quests. Nowadays people will bitch and moan if the game is "only" 25 hours long if they stick to the critical path. At some point the quality will suffer due to trying to cram in more content, which is what hurt Andromeda in my opinion was that they added more content which paused the story for long stretches hurting the flow. Four hours seems a bit short; I take maybe double that. Were you skipping through dialogues too? |
|
azarhal
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 9,754 Likes: 27,639
inherit
1519
0
27,639
azarhal
9,754
Sept 9, 2016 12:15:16 GMT
September 2016
azarhal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by azarhal on Nov 3, 2017 15:32:33 GMT
Even the supposedly unmoddable Frostbite didn't stop people from making mods for MEA and DAI (KoTOR and Jade Empire also had some fan mods). It's not to say there are no mods at all. But compare the sheer numbers. 21.000 for FO4, 2600 for the most moddable Bioware game, which was DAO. 315 or something for MEA, most of them character presets and nerfs. All done using ingame assets. Hardly anything, if anything at all, done from scratch. FO4 sold over 20+m copies in 2 years, Skyrim over 20m too, even Oblivion sold over 6m copies sold back in 2006. BioWare never had that amount of sales for a game, of course their game have less mods. 5000 modders will output way more mods than 1000 of them. Saying that NWN was bigger than any Bethesda game in term of "story modules", but the original NWN Vaults was shutdown (it was an IGN sub-website) and many were lost ( the ones that remains are at the fan made Neverwinter Vault). |
|
Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 6,003 Likes: 9,087
inherit
1561
0
9,087
Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
6,003
Sept 13, 2016 11:51:12 GMT
September 2016
sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
4392
882
|
Post by Sanunes on Nov 3, 2017 15:35:17 GMT
I think part of that is they had to pad out everything to try and give people want they kept saying they wanting. Mass Effect 1 is a very short game, a couple of months back I played Mass Effect 1 for the first time since the launch of Mass Effect 2 and I was able to beat the game in under four hours sticking to the critical path and companion quests. Nowadays people will bitch and moan if the game is "only" 25 hours long if they stick to the critical path. At some point the quality will suffer due to trying to cram in more content, which is what hurt Andromeda in my opinion was that they added more content which paused the story for long stretches hurting the flow. Four hours seems a bit short; I take maybe double that. Were you skipping through dialogues too? I might have skipped a couple, but normally I just didn't fully explore the conversations for I remembered what moved the conversation forward. |
|
inherit
7535
0
2,066
abaris
2,013
April 2017
abaris
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by abaris on Nov 3, 2017 15:56:00 GMT
FO4 sold over 20+m copies in 2 years, Skyrim over 20m too, even Oblivion sold over 6m copies sold back in 2006. It's got less to do with sales than with a few simple questions. Does the engine and the tools available allow for realizing what modders have in mind? Are they even interested in the game in question? They're doing it for free, after all. |
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 3, 2017 16:00:14 GMT
Addressing all three of you here:We live in a day in age in which social media has become a ubiquitous part of nearly everyone's daily life. The problem is that this social media encourages short posts with next to zero nuance in them. You can't tell me that this didn't effect ME:A in a bad way. I'm not saying that it is the only contributing factor, but I can't come to any other conclusion than that it did indeed have a impact. The EA, BioWare, and Mass Effect social media pages all saw the same response. It was one of 3 things. Praise for ME:A, but vague in nature and sparse (people don't generally give a damn enough to post unless they are angry and that skews feedback into the negative), hate on ME:A that essentially amount to "this game is trash" without any form of constructive criticism, or memes mocking the admittedly broken animations. Other EA games that have done about the same as ME:A in critical reception and guesstimated sales have received DLC, so why not ME:A? My conclusion? Overwhelming reactions on social media and those reactions were the stereotypical, nonconstructive bullshit that those platforms breed. BSN had plenty of well thought-out criticism and I don't consider us here to be part of the social media problem, but EA doesn't give a rat's ass about the feedback here, that much is crystal clear. ME:A wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be, but the vocal hate that contained nothing but vitriol and were entirely deconstructive against it was the final nail in the casket in EA's eyes, and hence, SP support was done, DLC was canceled, and the entirety of the fandom suffers. That is the difference between ME:A and lets say Dead Space 3, which did get at least one DLC. Yeah, I don't know about this. If a developer decides to throw in the towel because a loud vocal minority is posting memes and making long-winded videos about how much your game sucks, then I really don't see your going to survive as a business. This is the Internet Age where billions of people have access to a technology that allows them to voice their opinion no matter who idiotic it is. You need to be able to have confidence in your product and ignore the inevitable flood of nonconstructive hate your going to get. I mean, this is EA and Bioware were talking about here, not some nobody developer that's never faced serious criticism before. DAI for instance got heavily criticized by rabid trolls but it got 3 SP DLCs regardless. Honestly, to me the real reason MEA got pulled is because EA, being the cutthroat business that it is, had no confidence in a developer team that quite frankly wasted their time and money. Furthermore, if MEA haters were seemingly more numerous than its supporters and fans, then maybe, just maybe, MEA just wasn't a strong enough product to deserve an enough ardent defenders willing to protect the game's reputation from trolls. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9445
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 16:07:41 GMT
Addressing all three of you here:We live in a day in age in which social media has become a ubiquitous part of nearly everyone's daily life. The problem is that this social media encourages short posts with next to zero nuance in them. You can't tell me that this didn't effect ME:A in a bad way. I'm not saying that it is the only contributing factor, but I can't come to any other conclusion than that it did indeed have a impact. The EA, BioWare, and Mass Effect social media pages all saw the same response. It was one of 3 things. Praise for ME:A, but vague in nature and sparse (people don't generally give a damn enough to post unless they are angry and that skews feedback into the negative), hate on ME:A that essentially amount to "this game is trash" without any form of constructive criticism, or memes mocking the admittedly broken animations. Other EA games that have done about the same as ME:A in critical reception and guesstimated sales have received DLC, so why not ME:A? My conclusion? Overwhelming reactions on social media and those reactions were the stereotypical, nonconstructive bullshit that those platforms breed. BSN had plenty of well thought-out criticism and I don't consider us here to be part of the social media problem, but EA doesn't give a rat's ass about the feedback here, that much is crystal clear. ME:A wasn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be, but the vocal hate that contained nothing but vitriol and were entirely deconstructive against it was the final nail in the casket in EA's eyes, and hence, SP support was done, DLC was canceled, and the entirety of the fandom suffers. That is the difference between ME:A and lets say Dead Space 3, which did get at least one DLC. Yeah, I don't know about this. If a developer decides to throw in the towel because a loud vocal minority is posting memes and making long-winded videos about how much your game sucks, then I really don't see your going to survive as a business. This is the Internet Age where billions of people have access to a technology that allows them to voice their opinion no matter who idiotic it is. You need to be able to have confidence in your product and ignore the inevitable flood of nonconstructive hate your going to get. I mean, this is EA and Bioware were talking about here, not some nobody developer that's never faced serious criticism before. DAI for instance got heavily criticized by rabid trolls but it got 3 SP DLCs regardless. Honestly, to me the real reason MEA got pulled is because EA, being the cutthroat business that it is, had no confidence in a developer team that quite frankly wasted their time and money. Furthermore, if MEA haters were seemingly more numerous than its supporters and fans, then maybe, just maybe, MEA just wasn't a strong enough product to deserve an enough ardent defenders willing to protect the game's reputation from trolls. Like I said, that isn't the only reason or even a major one, but the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't recall DA:I getting the same levels of shitposting trolls that ME:A did, but I don't play DA so I could be wrong there. I guarantee that ME:A failed primarily because of Montreal's incompetence, but I can't shake the feeling that memes and REEE'ing on social media is what helped to get the game shitcanned by EA instead of being improved further and redeemed somewhat. |
|
inherit
3532
0
2,504
ComedicSociopathy
1,037
Feb 12, 2017 21:39:59 GMT
February 2017
delightdul
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
|
Post by ComedicSociopathy on Nov 3, 2017 16:25:32 GMT
Yeah, I don't know about this. If a developer decides to throw in the towel because a loud vocal minority is posting memes and making long-winded videos about how much your game sucks, then I really don't see your going to survive as a business. This is the Internet Age where billions of people have access to a technology that allows them to voice their opinion no matter who idiotic it is. You need to be able to have confidence in your product and ignore the inevitable flood of nonconstructive hate your going to get. I mean, this is EA and Bioware were talking about here, not some nobody developer that's never faced serious criticism before. DAI for instance got heavily criticized by rabid trolls but it got 3 SP DLCs regardless. Honestly, to me the real reason MEA got pulled is because EA, being the cutthroat business that it is, had no confidence in a developer team that quite frankly wasted their time and money. Furthermore, if MEA haters were seemingly more numerous than its supporters and fans, then maybe, just maybe, MEA just wasn't a strong enough product to deserve an enough ardent defenders willing to protect the game's reputation from trolls. Like I said, that isn't the only reason or even a major one, but the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't recall DA:I getting the same levels of shitposting trolls that ME:A did, but I don't play DA so I could be wrong there. I guarantee that ME:A failed primarily because of Montreal's incompetence, but I can't shake the feeling that memes and REEE'ing on social media is what helped to get the game shitcanned by EA instead of being improved further. Fair enough. We both agree that MEA's lack of SP DLC was a perfect storm of issues that screwed it over. And I will admit that while DAI did indeed get trashed on the old forums for being "fetch quest trash" I don't recall it getting a shit ton of gifs and memes like MEA. Then again, DAI didn't have anywhere near the amount of graphic problems MEA had. Still, I just don't think EA using all those hateful (and funny) gifs and memes as the final excuse for shutting the project down is acceptable. No Man's Sky got torn to shreds by just about everyone but to Hello Games credit they didn't let that stop them from continuing to improve the game and add new features and content. Sure, MEA is a AAA game that requires a lot more resources and money then No Man's Sky but if EA is going to make a trend of stopping support for one of their games because they got heavily trolled then I think that sets a nasty precedent. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9445
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2017 16:27:27 GMT
Like I said, that isn't the only reason or even a major one, but the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't recall DA:I getting the same levels of shitposting trolls that ME:A did, but I don't play DA so I could be wrong there. I guarantee that ME:A failed primarily because of Montreal's incompetence, but I can't shake the feeling that memes and REEE'ing on social media is what helped to get the game shitcanned by EA instead of being improved further. Fair enough. We both agree that MEA's lack of SP DLC was a perfect storm of issues that screwed it over. And I will admit that while DAI did indeed get trashed on the old forums for being "fetch quest trash" I don't recall it getting a shit ton of gifs and memes like MEA. Then again, DAI didn't have anywhere near the amount of graphic problems MEA had. Still, I just don't think EA using all those hateful (and funny) gifs and memes as the final excuse for shutting the project down is acceptable. No Man's Sky got torn to shreds by just about everyone but to Hello Games credit they didn't let that stop them from continuing to improve the game and add new features and content. Sure, MEA is a AAA game that requires a lot more resources and money then No Man's Sky but if EA is going to make a trend of stopping support for one of their games because they got heavily trolled then I think that sets a nasty precedent. Like I said, the straw that broke the camels back. EA had to have discussed such a reaction and considered it, but I can't prove any of that, no one can. As you said, fair enough. Agree to disagree and whatnot. |
|
no sense of irony or self-awareness whatsoever, eh? poor guy... 
Be seeing you.