Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jan 21, 2018 19:28:04 GMT
Thanks EA. (sarcasm)
Ugh.
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Post by Arkhne on Jan 21, 2018 20:20:06 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators.
BioWare made those decisions.
EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's.
I'm no fan of EA, but I'm also tired of people blaming EA for things done by the Devs of the games they publish. EA may tell which studio to make what game, but the finer details of who does what and how comes from the developers, NOT EA.
Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control.
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thedarkprince
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: xxPSCxx
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thedarkprince
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Post by thedarkprince on Jan 21, 2018 21:54:59 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators. BioWare made those decisions. EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's. I'm no fan of EA, but I'm also tired of people blaming EA for things done by the Devs of the games they publish. EA may tell which studio to make what game, but the finer details of who does what and how comes from the developers, NOT EA. Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control. EA did choose to put Bioware's A team on Anthem and use their B team to make Andromeda. Shows you where their focus was. Anthem will have a bigger budget, higher production values etc, because it's a games as service title. They can milk gamers for far more money in it than ME......so yeah it's their fault 100%.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 21, 2018 23:11:38 GMT
Whatever ME:A's problem was, it had nothing to do with an inadequate budget.
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Post by isaidlunch on Jan 21, 2018 23:56:57 GMT
MEA was far from perfect, but it was still miles ahead of most games in 2017.
I mean really, games like Breath of the Wild and Persona 5 are winning awards? LOL
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cypherj
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Jan 22, 2018 2:21:57 GMT
It would be kind of hard to nominate a game that had the plug pulled on it. That's like nominating a show that got canceled for and an Emmy.
I don't blame EA for it really, they gave them a good enough budget and enough time. ME:A was a failure in Bioware management. They wasted all of the time on procedurally created planets. They chose the plot, the story, characters, and made all the design decisions. EA even pushed the release date back one time. Finally, they had to just cut their losses, I don't blame them for that at all.
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Post by marshalmoriarty on Jan 22, 2018 2:50:28 GMT
I agree that blaming EA is simplifying and misrepresenting the situation. The facts as I see them are that the developers made some costly and misguided errors which hurt the overall end product when they finally brought their unreasonable aims back in line with something they could actually deliver. And to their credit, they did a lot of things right, improving combat and both personal and vehicular exploration with the jetpack and Nomad. The open worlds were generally better filled with quests than many other such games, though still far from ideal.
However, the botched presentation, characters and story undermined key pillars of what people want and expect from a Bioware RPG leading to a backlash which was at once understandable and rather unfair (even the most critical initial reviews made the point that MEA had many redeeming features, but these were backslid on as critics jumped on the hate bandwagon over the year, for fear of alienating their viewers).
In summary, MEA deserved to win no positive awards sadly. But beyond some 'most disappointing' awards, it didn't deserve negative awards either (and frankly, Persona 5 was far more disappointing IMO). MEA isn't underrated, but it is overhated. I enjoyed the game generally speaking and thought Bioware and EA could have defended it in a more robust fashion. But I also don't feel like its an unjustly criticised gem like I feel about Dragon Age 2 or Obsidian's KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 2:53:10 GMT
Whatever ME:A's problem was, it had nothing to do with an inadequate budget. Actually it didn't. ME2, ME3 and ME:A all had the same budget of $40 million. ME:A had 5 years to get the job done vs ME2's 3 years and ME3's 2 years...
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Post by river82 on Jan 22, 2018 3:52:48 GMT
MEA was far from perfect, but it was still miles ahead of most games in 2017. I mean really, games like Breath of the Wild and Persona 5 are winning awards? LOL Those games left ME:A in their dust. Persona 5 was the best pure JRPG in about a decade (if you ignore that it's part dating sim ... kinda)
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Post by river82 on Jan 22, 2018 3:58:32 GMT
Persona 5 has an anti-authority, bordering on anarchy message that runs through the entire game. You may not agree with that message and it was presented childishly (kids suffer because of adults isn't exactly a very deep or nuanced thought), but at least the writers had something to say. As opposed to Andromeda which was pretty generic and by the numbers in almost every way.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 22, 2018 4:16:49 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators. Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control. I agree a lot with this statement, I think the only thing that might have been improved with more time is the facial animations anything else people say would be improved I am not sure of for those features seemed to work as intended and integrated into the game.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 22, 2018 4:21:56 GMT
Persona 5 has an anti-authority, bordering on anarchy message that runs through the entire game. You may not agree with that message and it was presented childishly (kids suffer because of adults isn't exactly a very deep or nuanced thought), but at least the writers had something to say. As opposed to Andromeda which was pretty generic and by the numbers in almost every way. If it isn't very deep or nuanced how isn't it generic?
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Post by river82 on Jan 22, 2018 4:29:59 GMT
Persona 5 has an anti-authority, bordering on anarchy message that runs through the entire game. You may not agree with that message and it was presented childishly (kids suffer because of adults isn't exactly a very deep or nuanced thought), but at least the writers had something to say. As opposed to Andromeda which was pretty generic and by the numbers in almost every way. If it isn't very deep or nuanced how isn't it generic? It's a game aimed at teenagers and it has a pretty thought provoking theme (for them) to accompany an entertaining story and quality dungeon crawling mechanics. Being generic means being like every other game out there, it's being unoriginal. That Persona 5 doesn't have a theme to equal Planescape Torment's "What can change the nature of a man" doesn't mean it's generic, the very fact that it had one at all that resonates with current society separates it from most AAA story oriented games.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 22, 2018 6:43:22 GMT
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An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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legendcncd
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 22, 2018 8:08:44 GMT
MEA was far from perfect, but it was still miles ahead of most games in 2017. I mean really, games like Breath of the Wild and Persona 5 are winning awards? LOL Yepp. Would not touch those with 10000 feet pole. Other is Nintendo so it MUST be the best (especially on the other side of the pond it seems so), and other, omg no effin way. But of course these are my feelings and foundations.
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Conquer Your Dreams
N3
Say that you love me
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: stescooter100
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Conquer Your Dreams
Say that you love me
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ste100
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jan 22, 2018 12:18:43 GMT
Well it's on Bioware this time, that's why Mr. Flynn have to say goodbye...
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 22, 2018 15:29:19 GMT
Well it's on Bioware this time, that's why Mr. Flynn have to say goodbye... Quit or fired?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 15:33:51 GMT
It won my heart, and it's enough for me
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Post by Superhik on Jan 22, 2018 15:40:13 GMT
Damn shame. And I had a whole stack of celebratory gifs.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 22, 2018 15:57:05 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators. BioWare made those decisions. EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's. I'm no fan of EA, but I'm also tired of people blaming EA for things done by the Devs of the games they publish. EA may tell which studio to make what game, but the finer details of who does what and how comes from the developers, NOT EA. Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control. Bioware is EA. And has been for a decade now.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Post by Iakus on Jan 22, 2018 16:04:22 GMT
Whatever ME:A's problem was, it had nothing to do with an inadequate budget. Yup, the problem lay more in the direction of flat characters, nonsensical lore changes, uninteresting enemies, overly streamlined game-play, lack of roleplay opportunity...
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jan 22, 2018 18:55:19 GMT
I agree that blaming EA is simplifying and misrepresenting the situation. The facts as I see them are that the developers made some costly and misguided errors which hurt the overall end product when they finally brought their unreasonable aims back in line with something they could actually deliver. And to their credit, they did a lot of things right, improving combat and both personal and vehicular exploration with the jetpack and Nomad. The open worlds were generally better filled with quests than many other such games, though still far from ideal. However, the botched presentation, characters and story undermined key pillars of what people want and expect from a Bioware RPG leading to a backlash which was at once understandable and rather unfair (even the most critical initial reviews made the point that MEA had many redeeming features, but these were backslid on as critics jumped on the hate bandwagon over the year, for fear of alienating their viewers). In summary, MEA deserved to win no positive awards sadly. But beyond some 'most disappointing' awards, it didn't deserve negative awards either (and frankly, Persona 5 was far more disappointing IMO). MEA isn't underrated, but it is overhated. I enjoyed the game generally speaking and thought Bioware and EA could have defended it in a more robust fashion. But I also don't feel like its an unjustly criticised gem like I feel about Dragon Age 2 or Obsidian's KOTOR 2 and Alpha Protocol etc.Absolutely. However... that release.. and then dropping the DLC support after a long, hot ass summer. EA executed Andromeda instead of sending in some "A" talent*. The publisher doesn't have to coddle a studio, but a great one will take losses to correct the issue knowing reputation is more important than a bottom line that was reportedly already in the black. BioWare released a game not ready for consumption and EA let them take the heat all summer long. All... summer... long. So, yeah... I agree with you, but EA failed... ABSOLUTELY FAILED... to protect their studio and their golden goose of storytelling. By the way, it's all speculation, but EA is dropping BioWare like a hot potato if Anthem doesn't make their nervous, impatient and ignorant investors happy by the following quarter. If EA is freakin' rich, why are they slamming studios doors faster than a cartel money launderer when things get too hot? * We're talking Frostbite. DICE. Come on... a beautiful canvas that is being made to be something else. So... back to EA being a dumbass.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
Posts: 2,516 Likes: 2,607
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Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jan 22, 2018 19:02:54 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators. BioWare made those decisions. EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's. I'm no fan of EA, but I'm also tired of people blaming EA for things done by the Devs of the games they publish. EA may tell which studio to make what game, but the finer details of who does what and how comes from the developers, NOT EA. Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control. Bioware is EA. And has been for a decade now. I agree with you somewhat. A lot of the talent is elsewhere, but without Unreal or Frostbite, I don't care where they are. The overuse of the Infinity Engine blows for me. Divinity and Pillars are great one and done adventures because it didn't beckon me back like Dragon Age or Mass Effect. Andromeda hasn't called me back because there is no incentive. No DLC, no modding, not a damn thing... Fallout 4 has me mesmerized with it's subpar writing, dopey quests and lore-breaking elements. Why? DLC and modding.
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abaris
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Post by abaris on Jan 22, 2018 19:25:56 GMT
EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's. The constant change in direction and most of all the suicide mission of opening the game to the general public in all it's unpatched prerelease glory, is certainly EA's doing. At the very least, they had some say in what was happening. I can't think of a more stupid move than promoting Origin Access by throwing out a flagship brand before even pofessional game critics could have a look.
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Post by Arkhne on Jan 22, 2018 19:52:08 GMT
EA did NOT choose the writters. EA did NOT choose the animators. BioWare made those decisions. EA may be bad, but the things wrong with Andromeda are NOT EA's fault, they are BioWare's. I'm no fan of EA, but I'm also tired of people blaming EA for things done by the Devs of the games they publish. EA may tell which studio to make what game, but the finer details of who does what and how comes from the developers, NOT EA. Could EA have given them more time? Yes. Would this has meant the game was better? No, we'd have gotten the same product, POSSIBLY a slightly more tested product (thus, with a few less glaring bugs, most of which have since been fixed). Could EA have let them make DLC for the game? Yes, and they should have. Beyond this, NONE of Andromeda was in EA's control. Bioware is EA. And has been for a decade now. You REALLY need to go read up on the difference between a Developer and a Publisher. Then come back and discuss which is at fault here.
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