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Post by arvaarad on Feb 2, 2018 2:10:14 GMT
I don't really care if long hair is realistic or practical or not, I just like it as part of the fantasy aesthetic...on both male and female characters. I mean, with the exception of something like urban fantasy, where you are deliberately going for realism on purpose. I don't think that's why we don't have long hair in Dragon Age though. I think it's because devs refuse to spend time on it if it's going to clip. I've tried plenty of mods in DAI to get long hair, and a lot of them do look weird in certain scenes, since they don't move. Modders are generally willing to put up with a little clipping here or there, but the devs aren't going to. Its easier to just have a bunch of short styles that don't clip and work with all armor. Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s a clipping thing too. I did medieval swordfighting in college, and lots of the people in that group had mid-back length hair. Men and women both. Usually pulled back or braided, but sometimes it was left to hang loose. I remember one guy who always had his hair loose, and he was a holy terror to duel. Actually come to think of it, a lot of the long-haired people were really good. It’s not as much of a hazard as it might seem. Even in windier conditions, it’s easy enough to just... tuck the hair into a gorget (the thing you wear to protect your neck) or into a jacket. And sweat very quickly soaks the wispy bits, so it doesn’t float into people’s faces like dry hair does. Now, in fairness, recreational swordfighting doesn’t get as scrappy as real, your-life-is-in-danger fights, so hair pulling was never an option for us. On the other hand, if you’re already close enough to grab stuff that’s attached to your enemy’s head, there are easier ways to ruin their day.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 2, 2018 2:59:01 GMT
(My post is basically referring to "white" hair. Kinky hair that can be braided tightly and securely, as in cornrows, is MUCH more secure and stable than anything achievable with white hair without lots of supporting product.)
This goes for men and women. In shows like Game of Thrones, or films like Lord of the Rings, we often see male heroes with long hair. These things a apply to them too!
Long hair, loose, fully or partially: yes. Movement would send hair flying in the face. Wind would send hair flying in the face. There is the danger that the hair would get caught in armor or pulled.
Long hair pulled back: yes, with caveats. While long hair that is pulled back is a much better solution, there are always bound to be flyaways. The movement of battle can loosen the hair binds, making it insecure and then leading to the problems with long hair above.
Short hair with bangs: yes, see above.
Anything that has the possibility of getting loose or flying in the face is bad. It's bad for vision and has the possibility to get caught or pulled in battle.
Now, it wasn't too common for people in those time periods to wash their hair frequently. Even if they brushed it regularly, it would still be greasy. Greasy hair does work better for tying because there is less danger for flyaways.
There have also been hair products since ancient times, whether that is animal fat or various oils, which would also help dramatically to make more secure hair.
The types of pretty, feminine hair that many people want? No way. But in the end, it's a video game, so who cares? I personally would not use such hairstyles, but I don't care if other players do.
Source: my experience as a woman that has had long hair for most of my life, through all sorts of experience and physical activity. If I ever joined the military, I would get a man's haircut without a single hesitation. I would not be bothering with hair during training and combat, especially when my male comrades don't have to. I need to wash it every other day or else it becomes a greasy hellscape. Hair = maintenance, even just washing longer hair.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 2, 2018 3:00:44 GMT
that are veritable soup-catchers for stray darkspawn blood Eeeeeeeeeew. Why do none of these men think about all the boners they could be giving people if they had super long hair?? No ladyboners for me. I dislike long hair on men.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 2, 2018 3:03:59 GMT
that are veritable soup-catchers for stray darkspawn blood Eeeeeeeeeew. Not a fan of elaborately-braided, taint-encrusted face squirrels? I was making a point, not commenting on anyone's particular taste.
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26,334
themikefest
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August 2016
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Post by themikefest on Feb 2, 2018 3:21:55 GMT
Yeah. Just grab the long hair whereas with short hair or hair that is tied up is much harder to grab.
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Post by naughtynomad on Feb 2, 2018 3:48:34 GMT
Well, at least with the equipment practicality was a big deal in ancient warfare, if you look at medieval weapons there was a lot of thought put into the design of weapons, 600 years later we still learn something new about those seemingly simple weapons, and their complex uses and techniques. Heck, when the first space suit was designed they actually took a medieval plate armor set to help improve the ability to move in the suit. Most people back then were extremely serious with the practicality of their weapons, their armor and their fighting skills. I am pretty sure that the Celts who often fought naked were slaughtered by the dozens by heavily armored Romans who were all about practicality. Nothing on the Roman soldier was a liability, it all was very practical, the entire legion was one practical no-BS machine and thats one big reason why they fucked up everyone else so hard. Spartans regularly went into battle lightly armored or naked, Romans favored the mobility of light armor and legs were often mostly unprotected, Chinese were known to go into battle naked to shame the opposing army and cause confusion. The heavy plate armor of the middle ages was extremely expensive. It was mainly reserved for kings, generals, and knights (nobles). A lot of it was impractical and decorative. Gilded with gold and silver, soft metals that did nothing other than increase the weight. There are few examples of female warrior who wore plate, but the few examples we DO have actually have boob plates. Look up Joan of Arc's armor... So yeah, even if you want to argue the "practicality" or "realism" side of things in a fantasy game, the argument fails.
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✜ Forge Mechanic
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Jun 12, 2024 13:49:30 GMT
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PapaCharlie9
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August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 2, 2018 3:49:19 GMT
It's scientifically proven that long hair enables women to kick serious ass during battle. PROOF!
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,216
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10,216
House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Feb 2, 2018 4:13:26 GMT
Hey, all I said was that it can be an inconvenience and that most front line fighters have other things to worry about. I'm all for long hair. I just hate that discussion about long hair is always tied to how women, specifically, need to have long hair or they are teh uggo. It's hardwired into us based on thousands of years of tradition. It's science. Indeed. Women belong in the kitchen, men belong on the battlefield. Realistically men or women with long hair would have it tied up.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
Posts: 13,008 Likes: 21,045
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21,045
sjsharp2010
Go Team!
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December 2016
sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 2, 2018 4:15:21 GMT
Well seeing as we're talking about DA here not all characters are necessarily front line warriors as such. Don't forget we do have rogues and mages too that can also attack from range either by bow and arrow or in the mages case magic. Personally I think there needs to be a mix of different hairstyles in the game both short and long and allow the player to choose based on what they want to use on that given character that they are creating. For me the 50 shades of bald they gave us for DAI was bad something that imo they put right with MEA. I just hope they continue to improve in DA4
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Post by river82 on Feb 2, 2018 4:17:06 GMT
There are few examples of female warrior who wore plate, but the few examples we DO have actually have boob plates. Look up Joan of Arc's armor... I have, and I didn't find boob plates. Historians who have pored through thousands of different armours unearthed over the years have stated they have never found a piece of boob plate. Not even the armour people claimed to be Joan of Arc's had boob plates. It's not a matter of practicality, it's a matter of compromising the armour. Joan of Arc was said to have warn very plain armour without any decorative or enhancing effects, according to testimony. Boob plate doesn't really fit the bill. So, this for example was said to be Joan of Arc's armour. No boob plates. www.stjoan-center.com/topics/armor.htmlOr maybe it's this, again no boob plate:
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Post by river82 on Feb 2, 2018 4:21:05 GMT
On the concept of boob plate: Daniel Merten has been making armour for 25 years as an offshoot of his jewelry manufacture business and is an active member of the Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) in Sydney, which is a living history group.
From both a practical and professional stand point, he says the thing that annoys him most about the armoured boobs trope is “the sheer discrepancy of it”.
“You look at a lot of fantasy and sci-fi and you see obvious things that are meant to enhance the female’s physiology: you see the separation of breasts and all sorts of things like this.
“It’s less than ideal. As the armour comes back in towards the sternum, it’s what most armourers will describe as a funneling effect.
“So if I have a ridge down my breast plate, swords, spears and axes are going to hit that and slide away: it’s going to move it away from me and help protect me.
“However, if I then put a divet in to that section, of course that’s going to then form a valley for all of those weapons – arrows and stuff - to catch on and if you have something that will catch a weapon, you’re more likely to punch through the armour.
“The armour is incongruous, it’s not going to work.”
Merten says armour is created as a “series of glacis glancing surfaces” that aim to “drive weaponry away and protect the person”.
The armoured boob cliche, does the opposite of that.
“We have inherited a marketing trope that isn’t realistic in anyway,” he says.www.sbs.com.au/news/thefeed/article/2016/05/24/armoured-boobs-and-calling-nonsense-ingrained-sexism-fantasy
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Post by kitcat1228 on Feb 2, 2018 4:23:34 GMT
It wasn't a problem for the Vikings, Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans, Aztecs, Mayans, or hundreds of other examples throughout history. People who say long hair is not practical in battle have no understanding of history and culture. Sure they had long hair but they tied back or braided it up before going into battle.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 2, 2018 4:25:33 GMT
Also on boob plate:
Bull: Ah, that's some good armor.
Cassandra: Are you referring to me?
Bull: Some high-ranking women wear ornamental crap with tits hammered into it. One good shot, and all that cleavage gets knocked right into the sternum. Real messy. Good on you for going practical.
Cassandra: I aim to please.
Bull: Leaves something to the imagination, too.
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Post by river82 on Feb 2, 2018 4:27:05 GMT
Sure they had long hair but they tied back or braided it up before going into battle. The idea that Vikings had long hair may very well be a myth. Danish people of the time period tended to have short hair at the back: “From picture sources we know that the Vikings had well-groomed beards and hair. The men had long fringes and short hair on the back of the head," she says, adding that the beard could be short or long, but it was always well-groomed. Further down on the neck, the skin was shaved.
Two sources support this view:
One is a three-dimensional carved male head on a wagon in the Oseberg ship burial mound in Norway. The man’s hair is well groomed and he has an elegant long moustache and a chin beard that reaches up to his moustache, but apparently not out to the cheeks.
The second source is an anonymous Old English letter in which a man admonishes his brother to follow the Anglo-Saxon practice and not give in to ‘Danish fashion with a shaved neck and blinded eyes’. Blinded eyes probably meant a long fringe.
The women’s hair was usually long. It was probably tied into a knot on the back of the head, and the knot may have been decorated with coloured tape, which was braided into the hair. The women also wore a bonnet or a scarf around their heads.
sciencenordic.com/what-vikings-really-looked
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TheodoricFriede
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 397 Likes: 917
inherit
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Nov 19, 2018 22:58:41 GMT
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January 2018
theodoricfriede
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 2, 2018 4:27:22 GMT
Alright so here's the deal.
Long hair was historically common. It was probably tied back in battle to keep it out of your face during a fight. Properly managed, long hair is perfectly acceptable on the battlefield.
FEMININE hairstyles, which, for the purpose of this thread, I'm going to assume mean long, flowing, lustrous, or short, fancy, styled hair, aren't good on the battlefield period. And they certainly wouldn't last long if someone tried.
This, for the record, includes Dorian's perfect quaff, and fine mustache. Not to mention Vivian's hat.
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Post by river82 on Feb 2, 2018 4:29:54 GMT
Also on boob plate: Bull: Ah, that's some good armor. Cassandra: Are you referring to me? Bull: Some high-ranking women wear ornamental crap with tits hammered into it. One good shot, and all that cleavage gets knocked right into the sternum. Real messy. Good on you for going practical. Cassandra: I aim to please. Bull: Leaves something to the imagination, too. Someone in the DA writer group did their research. Always nice to see
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TheodoricFriede
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 397 Likes: 917
inherit
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Nov 19, 2018 22:58:41 GMT
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theodoricfriede
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 2, 2018 4:33:01 GMT
You know, I think people forget, in as much as armor goes, that you dont just strap some metal to yourself and call it a day.
Generally you are wearing several layers of padding that would, most likely, flatten out any shapeliness of the female body regardless.
So yeah. "Breast" plate, is a little absurd.
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naughtynomad
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Post by naughtynomad on Feb 2, 2018 4:40:01 GMT
Here's a question... would wearing plate even be "practical" if you're regularly fighting enemies that can breathe or throw fire? The idea of being slowly cooked in a metal oven would probably dissuade that. If BW cared about practicality, the Templars would wear lots of flame/frost resistant padded armor.
But then if they didn't do that, they wouldn't like Knights Templar from the middle ages... clearly aesthetic choices are made when making a video game, and squabbling over if it's practical or not is pretty stupid.
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ObsidianGryphon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 2, 2018 4:48:37 GMT
Is the OP referring to video games or RL? Long flying / flowing hair in battles, in whichever role, is impractical and hazardous. A sensible warrior who value their lives would tie it up properly and keep it under the helm when going to battle.
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Post by river82 on Feb 2, 2018 4:50:04 GMT
Here's a question... would wearing plate even be "practical" if you're regularly fighting enemies that can breathe or throw fire? The idea of being slowly cooked in a metal oven would probably dissuade that. If BW cared about practicality, the Templars would wear lots of flame/frost resistant padded armor. But then if they didn't do that, they wouldn't like Knights Templar from the middle ages... clearly aesthetic choices are made when making a video game, and squabbling over if it's practical or not is pretty stupid. I remember in Dark Souls looking at this dude in plate armour face a giant about 40 feet tall wielding a massive club. And considering plate had a weakness to blunt heavy weapons because it broke bones underneath, I thought you shouldn't be wearing that armour in the first place xD. Let's see if I can find the image ... this'll do. I mean, I hope you feel safe with that breast plate and shield, lol
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Deleted
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guest@proboards.com
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January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 4:55:32 GMT
Ask Flemeth.
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Gotta be kiddin me
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phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by phoray on Feb 2, 2018 5:17:20 GMT
It wasn't a problem for the Vikings, Japanese, Chinese, Native Americans, Aztecs, Mayans, I'm no expert, but isn't their hair like super thick, straight, and unlikely to tangle? Not this baby fine stuff most americans got that tangles itself from nothing.
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http://bsn.boards.net/board/40/dragon-age-4
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Post by Fredward on Feb 2, 2018 6:17:14 GMT
People being stupid because it's tradition is a well established thing, you can see it even today, but tradition is not a weird vague thing you can generally apply to everyone because you perceive them to be ye oldy. Traditions develop in specific cultures for specific reasons. If those traditions aren't present in specific cultures (we have no reason to believe they are in DA, they might very well have cultures that value pragmatism and practicality instead) AND they're stupid it's unlikely they'd indulge those practices.
Yes a feminine, long hairstyle would be an inconvenience in battle. No, the Maker is not going to descend from the sky and personally rip of all your hair if you wanna wear long hair anyway.
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Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 2, 2018 6:27:07 GMT
This is a fantasy roleplaying game, convenience doesn't matter. If I want to wear stripper armor and have long loong hair, I should be able to, just as much as convenient sturdy armor that looks ugly, but practical, and a bald head.
But I'm pretty sure BW has chosen their design philosophy, and they'll stick to that. But I do personally believe that the lack of long hair isn't some kind of a political stance or a design philosophy, but rather lack of experience and competence when it comes to modeling and animating long hair. It isn't ez pz.. Making games is expensive as well, and the time used on long hair can be used to something more important.
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TheodoricFriede
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 397 Likes: 917
inherit
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0
Nov 19, 2018 22:58:41 GMT
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theodoricfriede
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Feb 2, 2018 7:02:07 GMT
To play devils advocate, I would like to point out that this series also has a Flower Crown helmet, and a Cheese Wheel Shield.
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