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Post by scootshoot on Feb 20, 2018 0:01:29 GMT
This is DAI in space with better mounts.
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Sondergaard
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Posts: 572 Likes: 975
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by Sondergaard on Feb 20, 2018 9:16:55 GMT
This is DAI in space with better mounts. I fucking wish. I love DAI. I'm not blind to its faults but it has two things MEA doesn't; great characters and dialogue. Actually it has a lot more than that but they're the major ones.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Post by Iakus on Feb 20, 2018 15:49:38 GMT
This is DAI in space with better mounts. DAI "only" limited me to eight abilities at once. Not four (with one of them locked in)
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Post by ayenari on Feb 20, 2018 15:58:20 GMT
Overall technical polish. A more compelling main story that actually goes somewhere a lot sooner. Overall dialogue polish, especially with characters that just about anyone that plays the game for more than an hour will encounter, like Addison.
What Andromeda did well was having arguably the best combat in the series, and that's about it. The rest is varying degrees of just "ok" to disappointing.
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Post by q5tyhj on Feb 20, 2018 22:04:33 GMT
I fucking wish. I love DAI. Amen. If only we had been so lucky to get DAI in space. DAI was a very solid game.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2018 22:27:45 GMT
This is DAI in space with better mounts. I fucking wish. I love DAI. I'm not blind to its faults but it has two things MEA doesn't; great characters and dialogue. Actually it has a lot more than that but they're the major ones. Don't forget Trevor Morris. I'll never really understand all this use of Inquisition as if it's an obvious term of derision. There's a reason the game had such a successful release, and got multiple DLC's. It ended up being my favorite of the IP so far.
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Post by goishen on Feb 20, 2018 22:31:49 GMT
If you want my honest to god opinion, it's not even half of the game that DAI was, and DAI could be slow at best at times.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 21, 2018 1:45:31 GMT
I'll sign on with this, but do we have a consensus on exactly what ME:A did worse than DAI? Characters, plot, anything else?
I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why.
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Guardian
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 566 Likes: 939
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Post by Guardian on Feb 21, 2018 2:13:44 GMT
I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. Was it maybe because we had a search function for DA:I but not really in ME:A? I know that was part of the reason why I hated the overland map searches in ME:A. At least we had a radial search in DA:I
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Post by goishen on Feb 21, 2018 5:33:14 GMT
I, for one, hated the radial searches in DAI.
Like this one person said over on BSN prime, even in her signature, "I'm a person, not a submarine. Stop making me ping everything around me."
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2018 5:39:18 GMT
They really should’ve just kept the sparkles from DAO, though I’d just prefer a simple tag over objects.
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Post by sil on Feb 21, 2018 10:04:33 GMT
I'll sign on with this, but do we have a consensus on exactly what ME:A did worse than DAI? Characters, plot, anything else? I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. I think it'd be better for them to focus on how Witcher 3 did it. It's not a perfect game, but it had vastly more 'cinematic' conversations than ME:A (or ME3 for that matter) like the first two ME's had. It had only a select few areas to visit, but each of them were broad with varying terrain, huge towns and other landmarks to stop them feeling monotonous in design. Plus it focused heavily on intelligent, grown up plots for the main story and especially for certain side missions. The reason games like ME or Witcher become so loved isn't down to having epic amazing combat or driving sections, it's because of the quality of the story and world-building, the interactivity via the story and the immersion. I think Bioware forgot that ever since the time of ME3's production, which phased out many conversations in exchange for eavesdropping ones.
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Gileadan
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 21, 2018 10:42:15 GMT
I'll sign on with this, but do we have a consensus on exactly what ME:A did worse than DAI? Characters, plot, anything else? I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. I've thought about MEA maps feeling like a chore for a bit, and this is what I came up with: The objectives of any given MEA quest are scattered about the entire map, meaning that if you were to go through your quest log doing one quest after the other, you'd cross the entire map for each quest, sometimes more than once, because the locations are so far apart. This got on my nerves so much that I generally crossed the MEA maps in one big sweep, always going for the nearest location of any quest in my log instead of the currently active one. I guess this was done because the Nomad actually made you travel noticeably faster and was considered the standard means of movement, while in DAI the standard means of movement was on foot, allowing for quest objectives to be closer to each other without having very short travel times. DAI's approach gave more of an exploration feeling while MEA could make you feel like a delivery driver.
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Post by vonuber on Feb 21, 2018 10:48:46 GMT
The problem is that by having to drive, you make the maps bland because the terrain has to be accessible by the vehicle. In DAI you has all sorts of terrain to explore on foot. MEA had very little variety, apart from Havarl - which was probably the best map as it was on foot.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 21, 2018 12:16:32 GMT
This is DAI in space with better mounts. I fucking wish. I love DAI. I'm not blind to its faults but it has two things MEA doesn't; great characters and dialogue. Actually it has a lot more than that but they're the major ones. Indeed, better characters, better dialogue, better musical scores, better Menus, better crafting, better level design, better main plot, good DLC, previous choices that got imported, better Companion quests...really pretty much everything except side quests. Those were equally crap in both.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2018 13:41:48 GMT
I'll sign on with this, but do we have a consensus on exactly what ME:A did worse than DAI? Characters, plot, anything else? I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. I think it'd be better for them to focus on how Witcher 3 did it. It's not a perfect game, but it had vastly more 'cinematic' conversations than ME:A (or ME3 for that matter) like the first two ME's had. It had only a select few areas to visit, but each of them were broad with varying terrain, huge towns and other landmarks to stop them feeling monotonous in design. Plus it focused heavily on intelligent, grown up plots for the main story and especially for certain side missions. The reason games like ME or Witcher become so loved isn't down to having epic amazing combat or driving sections, it's because of the quality of the story and world-building, the interactivity via the story and the immersion. I think Bioware forgot that ever since the time of ME3's production, which phased out many conversations in exchange for eavesdropping ones. To be fair, the eavesdrop mechanic lived and died entirely in ME3. DA2 is the only other game with that odd unsatisfying quest structure where finding tattered knickers in a dung heap in the undercity automatically came with a if-found-bring-to note attached, so Hawke magically knew where its owner is in the city. I really wish Bio would up its game in terms of storytelling though. Overall, I feel they've been very iffy on nailing its internal logic and consistency, especially when it comes to the Mass Effect franchise. To that end, I think DA has always handled that with more finesse, even in its weakest moments.
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Post by sil on Feb 21, 2018 14:22:26 GMT
I think it'd be better for them to focus on how Witcher 3 did it. It's not a perfect game, but it had vastly more 'cinematic' conversations than ME:A (or ME3 for that matter) like the first two ME's had. It had only a select few areas to visit, but each of them were broad with varying terrain, huge towns and other landmarks to stop them feeling monotonous in design. Plus it focused heavily on intelligent, grown up plots for the main story and especially for certain side missions. The reason games like ME or Witcher become so loved isn't down to having epic amazing combat or driving sections, it's because of the quality of the story and world-building, the interactivity via the story and the immersion. I think Bioware forgot that ever since the time of ME3's production, which phased out many conversations in exchange for eavesdropping ones. To be fair, the eavesdrop mechanic lived and died entirely in ME3. DA2 is the only other game with that odd unsatisfying quest structure where finding tattered knickers in a dung heap in the undercity automatically came with a if-found-bring-to note attached, so Hawke magically knew where its owner is in the city. I really wish Bio would up its game in terms of storytelling though. Overall, I feel they've been very iffy on nailing its internal logic and consistency, especially when it comes to the Mass Effect franchise. To that end, I think DA has always handled that with more finesse, even in its weakest moments. Well, they evolved it into what's in ME:A now where the camera pans down over the characters shoulder for a closer look but it has no cinematic qualities. ME1 & 2 used to do what Witcher 3 does now which is show each conversation in a more cinematic way, they should return to that for future games.
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Post by goishen on Feb 21, 2018 15:22:50 GMT
I'll sign on with this, but do we have a consensus on exactly what ME:A did worse than DAI? Characters, plot, anything else? I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. I've thought about MEA maps feeling like a chore for a bit, and this is what I came up with: The objectives of any given MEA quest are scattered about the entire map, meaning that if you were to go through your quest log doing one quest after the other, you'd cross the entire map for each quest, sometimes more than once, because the locations are so far apart. This got on my nerves so much that I generally crossed the MEA maps in one big sweep, always going for the nearest location of any quest in my log instead of the currently active one. I guess this was done because the Nomad actually made you travel noticeably faster and was considered the standard means of movement, while in DAI the standard means of movement was on foot, allowing for quest objectives to be closer to each other without having very short travel times. DAI's approach gave more of an exploration feeling while MEA could make you feel like a delivery driver. That's true. I felt like I had ADD when I played ME:A. Never able to fully concentrate on a quest, even the main quest, for longer than five seconds. Twas crazy nuts. Of course, DAI was like this too. A tad less though. You could generally get a "feel" for how the quests were gonna go in DAI. In MEA? Complete mess.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Feb 22, 2018 4:40:08 GMT
So, it's just about 1 year later soon since Andromeda shipped to massive fanfare, ridicule, disappointment and acceptance, whichever way you took it really, and I felt like reflecting a little bit on it in general. I think it's fair to say, while some ended up actually being fully content with it -- for one there's definitely bang for your buck! -- I still feel the consensus is that this was a halfway-decent to mediocre Mass Effect game and it can't really be a Mass Effect game and also mediocre at the same time without there being something missing in the equation in the way to make it a good or amazing game instead. What is it? It's a pretty open topic, and I only have a few ideas on where to start. There's multiple issues in my book, mostly the premise and main plot. It's not the ideas that suck but the execution feels very skewed, Then there's presentation, the obvious one. The facial animation and ability to read the emotions of scenes and the characters. The cinematography is sometimes unintentionally slapstick and goofy. There's tons of things to grab onto and hold up to scrutiny, but was there anything specific in the formula of both a great game and a Mass Effect game that you felt was missing? Would adding it or fixing this aspect make a potential sequel better, assuming we just continue in this direction? What was it missing? Ok whenever this comes up from now on I am q uoting this guys' review on Amazon:
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 22, 2018 5:01:23 GMT
I, for one, hated the radial searches in DAI. Like this one person said over on BSN prime, even in her signature, "I'm a person, not a submarine. Stop making me ping everything around me." Did she say "man the torpedoes!" every time she used the radial search?
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2018 5:58:37 GMT
The objectives of any given MEA quest are scattered about the entire map, meaning that if you were to go through your quest log doing one quest after the other, you'd cross the entire map for each quest, sometimes more than once, because the locations are so far apart. This got on my nerves so much that I generally crossed the MEA maps in one big sweep, always going for the nearest location of any quest in my log instead of the currently active one. I guess this was done because the Nomad actually made you travel noticeably faster and was considered the standard means of movement, while in DAI the standard means of movement was on foot, allowing for quest objectives to be closer to each other without having very short travel times. DAI's approach gave more of an exploration feeling while MEA could make you feel like a delivery driver. That's true. I don't work from the quest log myself, though. I work from the map. (A habit that's served me well in recent Bio games, although not for any deliberate reason. I've been gaming since before games had journals, so I never picked up the habit of using journals.) So I ended up naturally gravitation towards the playstyle you ended up using. Which actually makes more sense RP wise; what would the order stuff's written in a journal have to do with what Ryder does next. But that just means that I blip from kett camp to kett camp faster, particularly for all of the annoying ones between two objectives. At least DAI monsters can drop useful leather.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2018 6:02:07 GMT
To be fair, the eavesdrop mechanic lived and died entirely in ME3. DA2 is the only other game with that odd unsatisfying quest structure where finding tattered knickers in a dung heap in the undercity automatically came with a if-found-bring-to note attached, so Hawke magically knew where its owner is in the city. It's not like the eavesdropping in ME3 actually did anything. Cut the NPC and you'd just have t give the NPC a different line if you don't want the Citadel to be eerily quiet, and doing or not doing the eavesdropping has no effect on gameplay.
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Post by abaris on Feb 22, 2018 21:19:55 GMT
I know that ME:A maps come across as a chore in a way that DAI maps do not, but I can't really explain exactly why. Well because they're empty apart from generic enemy drops and critters. There's nothing to discover, no loot, apart from generic crap, no structures, nothing. The maps take boring to a whole new level.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 23, 2018 3:35:32 GMT
I don't care about animation quality, and the main story is perfectly servicable. I find the Kett far more compelling than the Reapers, and the ending was the best of any in the series.
My first problem is with the open world design. It's too big, too empty, and too similar. The maps should have been smaller, and more varied, with more of them. Havarl is about the right size. Make the content within them more dense. Add secret tunnels, things to climb, that sort of crap, and make the planets themselves more interesting, not just shit that we can find on Earth. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is a shit game in every other respect, but the one big thing it has going for it is that the setting is creative and fantastical, with all sorts of hidden nooks and crannies that can only be accessed with special abilities. Allow us to break down walls and similar to access alternate hidden paths to our goals.
Secondly, the side content is mostly filler garbage. Reduce the number of quests, and expand on what remains. Make them longer, denser, with more meaningful rewards. Since the gimmick is choices and consequences make sure every quest ties back to the core story in some meaningful way. If it doesn't, then get rid of it. I don't really have an example of a game that does this in a way I would consider ideal, but Deus Ex comes close.
Finally, combat. More variety of enemies, with different strengths and weaknesses that require different tactics. Likewise, every party member should have a clear and defined role, with their own tactical benefits and drawbacks. Most classic RPGs serve as good examples of the kind of thing I mean. Also allow us to use the environment. Let us lay traps, hack enemy security systems and exploit structural weaknesses. Deus Ex does this well.
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Post by sil on Feb 23, 2018 8:40:15 GMT
Secondly, the side content is mostly filler garbage. Reduce the number of quests, and expand on what remains. Make them longer, denser, with more meaningful rewards. Since the gimmick is choices and consequences make sure every quest ties back to the core story in some meaningful way. If it doesn't, then get rid of it. I don't really have an example of a game that does this in a way I would consider ideal, but Deus Ex comes close. I disagree with the idea of cutting quests that don't tie to the core story. Mass Effect 1 had loads of content that didn't tie to the core story of chasing Saren, if things had been cut, then we wouldn't have found the unusual object on Eletania that shows you life through a Cro-magnon's eyes, we wouldn't have discovered the depraved depths of Cerberus' experiments or helped the Consort solve her problems with Xeltan and General Septimus. In ME2 we would've lost too much to mention. Side missions that have nothing to do with the main plot are great, as they open up the setting and allow you do dive into shorter, more varied plots (look to Witcher 3 for great examples of this, each Contract quest felt like it had meaning even though 99% of them didn't tie into the main plot). The problem was that the Additional Task missions in ME:A were somewhat lame and meaningless, not that they had nothing to do with the main plot as many -did- feature the Kett as a reason for the mission even existing. The problem lies with them not being varied, not being interesting and not introducing us to interesting new parts of this new galaxy. They were filler.
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