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Post by kotoreffect3 on Feb 11, 2018 21:51:19 GMT
And DA2 wasn't as badly received as MEA (At least I don't think it was) and Hawke got a lot of love, even if people hated the game. Hawke and crew aren't as bad as some people made them to be. I played DAII after playing Andromeda for the first time. And I was amazed at how much better DAII was in terms of companions and companion interactions. MEAs main problem is quantity over quality. I'm pretty sure if they had chosen a more linear approach with maps instead of these vast but lifeless open spaces, it would have been received better. The companions are still rather meh, but the game would have benefitted hugely by not going down the open world approach. Bioware simply isn't up to create convincing open worlds.This is something that has always been true for the Mass Effect series going all the way back to ME 1. The best parts of ME 1 were the linear main story missions such as Virmire and Ilos. The weakest part of ME 1 was the often repetitive UNC missions where we drove the mako around generic barren planets. The difference is that in ME 1 those UNC planets were optional side missions where even if you chased down every map marker you would be on any individual planet 10 to 15 minutes tops and therefore despite their cookie cutter nature they maintained a degree of charm while you could always go back to the meat of the main game. In MEA they took the same concept of the UNC planets from ME 1 and put it on steroids and gave us a handful of planets to explore but instead of just being on these planets for a short amount of time and then moving on to something more interesting you spend dozens of hours on each planet while getting rewarded with a more focused linear mission every ten to fifteen hours or so. Now don't get me wrong there are times where these big planets have their moments such as taking out the kett base on voeld but even then that sequence of events narrows down into something more linear as we work our way up the mountain and go through the cave network to assault the base. But overall 80 to 90 percent of the game involves driving from quest marker to quest marker on these large barren planets. I want to be busy and on the move going from plot point to plot point. I don't want to be driving in circles. ME 2 and ME 3 didn't waste time. They constantly had us on the moved and constantly had us engaged.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 11, 2018 22:19:13 GMT
Of course, it's not so much that you actually have to do those side missions on the ME:A worlds. You can just drive right past them.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Feb 11, 2018 22:28:21 GMT
Of course, it's not so much that you actually have to do those side missions on the ME:A worlds. You can just drive right past them. Sure but the game is structured in a way where you are going to want to do some of them in order to get your viability up and it feels like you aren't playing the game properly if you don't do them since that quest marker will sit there on top of the NPCs head the whole time until you talk to them. It is really the same mechanic DAI uses to have us grind for power. Now once you have played the game a few times it is easy to know which quests are worth it and which you can ignore and not feel like you are missing out but for first timers it can be frustrating chasing down every quest so you don't feel like you are missing something important. Mass Effect is at it's best when it is focused and has us on the move. I like MEA but just like DAI I have had to learn to pick and choose what I want to do and want I want to ignore.
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Post by link2twenty on Feb 11, 2018 22:30:00 GMT
I think they need to work out a better way to do open world. Maybe fewer quests but the ones they do add should have more depth to them. I have been thinking for a while that perhaps a television-like model might work. You have an overall arc for the season but in that, there can be a few subplots, the main story is always present though it's not always the sole focus of an episode.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Feb 11, 2018 22:34:39 GMT
I think they need to work out a better way to do open world. Maybe fewer quests but the ones they do add should have more depth to them. I have been thinking for a while that perhaps a television-like model might work. You have an overall arc for the season but in that, there can be a few subplots, the main story is always present though it's not always the sole focus of an episode. So basically Mass Effect 2
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Post by Guts on Feb 11, 2018 22:37:10 GMT
The staff that made the game is largely moved away from BioWare entirely. The bulk of the BW Montreal team is gone. That leaves potential for perhaps a Mass Effect Andromeda sequel done by some staff from Edmonton someday, but as far as the story goes there's a problem. While the narrative leads, Cathleen Rosaert, Mac as director and John Dombrow remain a lot of the high profile talent behind the writing of Andromeda are not at BioWare anymore. The writers of PeeBee and Cora, the Tempest dialogue and I can't even remember the pilot's name but that guy, they're all gone from BioWare now. They could continue it, but making it about Ryder and his gang of companions for a second romp would not feel the same. Perhaps we'll see them continue Ryder but shake things up though with other companions though. The art direction would change too on the other hand. Lots of things would just not feel in tone with the first game for better or worse. I just hope this doesn't result in Peebee becoming a mary sue.
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Origin: Link2Twenty
XBL Gamertag: carefreetuna
PSN: carefreetuna
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Post by link2twenty on Feb 11, 2018 22:42:34 GMT
I think they need to work out a better way to do open world. Maybe fewer quests but the ones they do add should have more depth to them. I have been thinking for a while that perhaps a television-like model might work. You have an overall arc for the season but in that, there can be a few subplots, the main story is always present though it's not always the sole focus of an episode. So basically Mass Effect 2 That did it quite well but it needs to be more open world elements too. ME2 was very linear which helped the story but didn't help the RPG feel.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 11, 2018 23:42:43 GMT
Of course, it's not so much that you actually have to do those side missions on the ME:A worlds. You can just drive right past them. Sure but the game is structured in a way where you are going to want to do some of them in order to get your viability up and it feels like you aren't playing the game properly if you don't do them since that quest marker will sit there on top of the NPCs head the whole time until you talk to them. It is really the same mechanic DAI uses to have us grind for power. Now once you have played the game a few times it is easy to know which quests are worth it and which you can ignore and not feel like you are missing out but for first timers it can be frustrating chasing down every quest so you don't feel like you are missing something important. Mass Effect is at it's best when it is focused and has us on the move. I like MEA but just like DAI I have had to learn to pick and choose what I want to do and want I want to ignore. Yeah, both games are completionist hell.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2018 3:35:15 GMT
So basically Mass Effect 2 That did it quite well but it needs to be more open world elements too. ME2 was very linear which helped the story but didn't help the RPG feel. Why? There is no set in stone requirements to classify a game as a RPG and I will leave it to BioWare to determine what they want in their games. If anything that is what annoyed me the most with Andromeda is they took the internet wish list and attempted to make a game around that wishlist instead of making a good game from the start.
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 12, 2018 8:48:46 GMT
I would be interested in knowing how many people want a Ryder sequel specifically, or would it be ok to just continue in the Andromeda Galaxy with another protagonist? I can't say I'm attached to Ryder since she doesn't feel like _my_ character and I can't role-play her the way I could play Shepard (at least until ME3).
As long as they continue the bigger storylines about the Scourge, Remnant and Kett, I'll be happy with the sequel/next ME game. I can live with it if I never see any of the characters again. Just like I wouldn't have missed any of the ME1 characters if ME2 had never happened.
Edit: I mean, a sequel in another cluster of Andromeda or maybe even several clusters, maybe well into the future with developed societies and infrastructures... I would really like to see that! And I would consider that 'fresh, exciting place' in the same way the MW galaxy was exciting because you had both settled worlds with culture to visit and unsettled worlds to explore.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Link2Twenty
XBL Gamertag: carefreetuna
PSN: carefreetuna
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Post by link2twenty on Feb 12, 2018 8:50:36 GMT
That did it quite well but it needs to be more open world elements too. ME2 was very linear which helped the story but didn't help the RPG feel. Why? There is no set in stone requirements to classify a game as a RPG and I will leave it to BioWare to determine what they want in their games. If anything that is what annoyed me the most with Andromeda is they took the internet wish list and attempted to make a game around that wishlist instead of making a good game from the start. Maybe I didn't word that very well. I only mean that ME2 felt a little 'on rails' which is fine and it was a great game, thanks to some great Bioware storytelling, but you, or at least I, didn't feel as in control of the character.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 12, 2018 10:04:58 GMT
Control of the character isn't always good in an RPG. Given Shepard's situation in ME2, the player had as much control as he should have had.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 12, 2018 11:08:49 GMT
An executive from EA said that if they bring ME back it had to be something fresh and relevant. That pretty much told me that it will be something new if they bring it back. I don't see how they would justify it internally anyway. If they didn't feel the story was worth continuing in DLC and pulled the plug on the game. Why would they invest and entire game budget to continue the story. It would be a huge risk. Yep, pretty much agree. I think the only possible way they could continue in Andromeda that might allow them to build up hype would be to make the various races playable as the main character. The fact that they abandoned the game 6 months in without a single DLC tells me leadership has already decided against continuing despite the massive investment in time and money and the core gaming mechanics in place. If Mass Effect returns I think they will reboot the original trilogy and introduce it to a new generation of gamers. As much as some fans don't want to admit it Shepard is synonymous with Mass Effect...in the same way Master Chief is synonymous with the Halo franchise.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 12, 2018 11:56:50 GMT
So basically Mass Effect 2 That did it quite well but it needs to be more open world elements too. ME2 was very linear which helped the story but didn't help the RPG feel. Also nerfed completely skills and made us gun everything inside tight corridors with a very bland main story, mostly had nothing to do with ME1 and ME3 at all.. For me ME1 & MEA style, but more focused yes, would be the dream
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 12, 2018 14:00:32 GMT
I would be interested in knowing how many people want a Ryder sequel specifically, or would it be ok to just continue in the Andromeda Galaxy with another protagonist? I can't say I'm attached to Ryder since she doesn't feel like _my_ character and I can't role-play her the way I could play Shepard (at least until ME3). As long as they continue the bigger storylines about the Scourge, Remnant and Kett, I'll be happy with the sequel/next ME game. I can live with it if I never see any of the characters again. Just like I wouldn't have missed any of the ME1 characters if ME2 had never happened. Edit: I mean, a sequel in another cluster of Andromeda or maybe even several clusters, maybe well into the future with developed societies and infrastructures... I would really like to see that! And I would consider that 'fresh, exciting place' in the same way the MW galaxy was exciting because you had both settled worlds with culture to visit and unsettled worlds to explore. I would like one more game with Ryder and Co.. There are some story threads that haven't been finished yet that need Ryder as the one to finish them. Plus I liked and had more control of Ryder more than I had with Shepard. After that, then I wouldn't mind them switching to another protagonist to continue(hopefully one with race options).
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Post by abaris on Feb 12, 2018 19:53:35 GMT
I think they need to work out a better way to do open world. Maybe fewer quests but the ones they do add should have more depth to them. They aren't up to create stuff like that. It's simply not their forte. If it were, the bases you create would evolve over time, making it rewarding to go back to them to see what's happening. If they were, the NPCs there would assume the semblance of life instead of acting as road blocks and telegraph poles. Hell, with FO4, a single modder created evolving settlements where people go about their daily business to retire at night. But Bioware couldn't do it with DAI and they couldn't do it with MEA. Maybe it's the engine not allowing for that, since it's an FPS engine. But if that doesn't work, they should leave well enough alone. It doesn't really add to their games.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 12, 2018 21:58:43 GMT
I think they need to work out a better way to do open world. Maybe fewer quests but the ones they do add should have more depth to them. They aren't up to create stuff like that. It's simply not their forte. If it were, the bases you create would evolve over time, making it rewarding to go back to them to see what's happening. If they were, the NPCs there would assume the semblance of life instead of acting as road blocks and telegraph poles. Hell, with FO4, a single modder created evolving settlements where people go about their daily business to retire at night. But Bioware couldn't do it with DAI and they couldn't do it with MEA. Maybe it's the engine not allowing for that, since it's an FPS engine. But if that doesn't work, they should leave well enough alone. It doesn't really add to their games. Just wanted to add it seems like Bethesda couldn't do it either then, it was a modder for their game. One big thing about features that evolve over time is the hardware constraints of the hardware they are aiming for. Someone putting a mod into a game that allows something is one thing, but to make sure it works on all supported hardware is another. Otherwise it would be like the Skyrim launch of the PS3 which was a complete waste of money for they kept running out of memory to run the game which then cascades into a horrible preforming game.
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Post by clips7 on Feb 13, 2018 5:52:03 GMT
Speaking from the PoV of marketing, Ryder is simply not a comparable asset to Shepard as he was towards the end of the OT. Probably not even comparable to Shepard immediately after ME1. At least that's how I see it. This...Ryder was boring as a character and can't hold a candle to Sheperd. Now that is not to say that Ryder should be Sheperd 2.0, but he needed to be at least compelling or interesting...dude had a personality and style that teammates just did not respect...even when Ryder tried to sound like a leader and demand attention, it fell flat. The only way to improve his character is maybe take the story yet another maybe 10-15 years where he's grown as a pathfinder and is a bit more experienced and weathered and then maybe have him look back on some and the Sheperd files and say..."Sheperd..i truly understand the weight you had on your shoulders" and from there craft him into a soldier/pathfinder that is all about business and others around see a distinct change from the soft rookie and pushover he was in the first game. Another problem is marketing....you can't say "from the Studio that brought you Andromeda" and you also can't say "From the studio that brought you the greatest sci-fi trilogy comes....drumroll.... Andromeda 2".....it's hard to get fans excited for a game that left a bad taste in their mouth.....don't get me wrong, it can be possible to create a good Andromeda 2 game with writers that are able to put together an interesting set of characters and a compelling story.... There's a reason why the DLC for ME3 enjoys solid sales even today...because ME3..even with it's endings is still a fun game to enjoy from beginning to end.....
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2018 7:05:09 GMT
This...Ryder was boring as a character and can't hold a candle to Sheperd. Now that is not to say that Ryder should be Sheperd 2.0, but he needed to be at least compelling or interesting...dude had a personality and style that teammates just did not respect...even when Ryder tried to sound like a leader and demand attention, it fell flat. There's something very ironic about that. I mean, they had a much more interesting potential protagonist in Alec Ryder. To be perfectly honest, I likely would have found ME:A much more interesting if instead of playing one of the Ryder twins plus their group of misfits, we played Alec Ryder leading the other pathfinders. It's not necessarily about their badassery either (though it wouldn't hurt), it's more about the fact that they are flat out much more interesting. Alec Ryder has a very interesting backstory, not to mention he is the genius that *made* SAM. He actually *knows* what this thing is capable of and whether it might present a danger, in if so, how to counter it. The pathfinders as well, I mentioned before that I would have happily switched the ME:A team with them, I simply find them MUCH more interesting. (both the originals, and at least some of the replacements) The thing is I think if BioWare decided to make Alec Ryder a playable character he would not have been anything like we encountered in the game and would have been exactly like the twins because they leave it up to us to develop the character. I think this is where the lack of experience really hurt the game for they didn't know how to give something about the twins without setting a path for them. Even the non-badassery moments you mention I think would have been scrubbed and done by someone else and I think that would have even been the same with the other Pathfinders for they were designed to fit into a certain hole. For some people that is why they don't like The Witcher games for Geralt never feels like a character they mold for they are set just like Alec and the other Pathfinders.
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Post by hulluliini on Feb 13, 2018 10:41:35 GMT
Hmm. I felt I had less control of Ryder than Shepard. In ME1, I felt like I could play her any way I wanted with genuinely different results. In ME2, they took away some of that by removing the 'neutral' options but it was still ok. In ME3, I really didn't like how I had to choose either Paragon or Renegade and watch plenty of cutscenes where I had no control of the dialogue. In ME:A, there are four different options in theory, but often you have only two of them available and they aren't that different in terms of how people react to you. And there are plenty of cutscenes where Ryder is an idiot and didn't feel like my character at all.
At least Alec Ryder's dialogue in cutscenes and options would have to be mature. I hate the cowboy aspect in Andromeda. I am a responsible person irl and take serious things seriously and I want to be that in games as well. But it's of course a turnoff to people who are the opposite.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 13, 2018 13:01:17 GMT
The thing is I think if BioWare decided to make Alec Ryder a playable character he would not have been anything like we encountered in the game and would have been exactly like the twins because they leave it up to us to develop the character. I think this is where the lack of experience really hurt the game for they didn't know how to give something about the twins without setting a path for them. Even the non-badassery moments you mention I think would have been scrubbed and done by someone else and I think that would have even been the same with the other Pathfinders for they were designed to fit into a certain hole. For some people that is why they don't like The Witcher games for Geralt never feels like a character they mold for they are set just like Alec and the other Pathfinders. And using Alec Ryder in the way you are describing would have been an utter waste of character potential. I'm not necessarily against a humorous or cynical lead, nor do I require a super-serious protagonist, after all, sarcastic!Hawke is probably my favorite Bioware protagonist. It's just that neither of the Ryder twins had any real impression on me, there's literally almost nothing memorable about them. I suppose that's fine if you prefer the blank-slate style of PC, but Mass Effect is built to capitalize on cinematic storytelling, and that requires SOMETHING to hold itself. ME:A didn't have a memorable or iconic protagonist, it didn't have particularly memorable or interesting companions, it didn't have particularly memorable or interesting Aliens, enemies, plot, etc. Is it truly a wonder that the most memorable aspect of that game are the memes? I agree, but I think that is why it doesn't matter if we had Alec Ryder to play or one of the twins, but that is how I would expect that team to have left Alec Ryder or any of the Pathfinders if we were to play them. Completely blank without anything really established about them It might be the case that the most memorable thing from Andromeda is the memes for you, I can think of other games where the reaction of people outside the game is more then what I remember about the game, its human nature for it is what leaves a stronger impact. The majority of things I can remember about Assassin's Creed 3 is the negative aspects of the game as well or even BioShock: Infinite I remember more the interactions about the game on message boards then the game. I know there are things outside of the memes that I will remember, but that is because I didn't have the negative interactions others did.
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Post by sil on Feb 13, 2018 13:30:31 GMT
a very bland main story, mostly had nothing to do with ME1 and ME3 at all. I completely disagree. Though the main villains of ME3 should have been the Reapers, it was actually Cerberus who were the main threat in ME3 as you fight them more than any other faction. Without ME2 they wouldn't have made any sense as the villains, and ME2 also introduced The Illusive Man who was the most visible of Reaper agents (though he didn't know it). Although ME2 put a 'nice' front on Cerberus, it was obvious that they were devious bastards because you kept coming across their scummy schemes in the game, it was obvious they would be a threat. Not only that, but ME2 is the story of the Reapers attempt to reopen the Citadel after Sovereign failed, the whole point of the Collector plot is that they are making a Reaper to take his place in opening the Citadel, when that fails, then Harbinger wakes the other Reapers and they take the long route to the Milky Way. The Reapers lack of control of the Citadel (first because Sovereign failed, then the Human Reaper was defeated) which is partly what makes a galaxy wide war possible for the third game, as they normally shut the relays down which wouldn't have been much fun to play through. Without ME2 we wouldn't have seen the Reapers coming to the galaxy, as far as ME1 was concerned we had prevented them from waking up. And this is ignoring other points I could make about how ME2 sets up the Tuchanka and Rannoch plots. People keep coming out with these claims that ME2 has nothing to do with ME3, but they're wrong. It's some weird viewpoint that people keep parroting. The main issue between ME2 and 3 is that Bioware didn't do nearly enough with the Collector Base decision and never gave the Reapers some kind of weakness or penalty because they took the long route to invade.
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inherit
2701
0
Feb 15, 2023 19:19:48 GMT
5,874
sgtreed24
1,947
January 2017
sgtreed24
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
SgtReed24
STB Sgt Reed
Over 9000
um, 17?
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Post by sgtreed24 on Feb 13, 2018 13:52:00 GMT
And DA2 wasn't as badly received as MEA (At least I don't think it was) and Hawke got a lot of love, even if people hated the game. Hawke and crew aren't as bad as some people made them to be. I played DAII after playing Andromeda for the first time. And I was amazed at how much better DAII was in terms of companions and companion interactions. MEAs main problem is quantity over quality. I'm pretty sure if they had chosen a more linear approach with maps instead of these vast but lifeless open spaces, it would have been received better. The companions are still rather meh, but the game would have benefitted hugely by not going down the open world approach. Bioware simply isn't up to create convincing open worlds. bleh, I'd much rather have multiple opens worlds that look at least somewhat different than playing on the same map and copy/paste dungeons. Or backtracking and re-backtracking through them 17 times before finishing the game. You could have the greatest characters ever put into a game and I wouldn't wanna play that again.
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inherit
The homeostatic problem-solving structure
8860
0
Apr 26, 2022 11:22:31 GMT
9,077
Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
5,042
Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
June 2017
legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 13, 2018 14:11:59 GMT
a very bland main story, mostly had nothing to do with ME1 and ME3 at all. I completely disagree. Though the main villains of ME3 should have been the Reapers, it was actually Cerberus who were the main threat in ME3 as you fight them more than any other faction. Without ME2 they wouldn't have made any sense as the villains, and ME2 also introduced The Illusive Man who was the most visible of Reaper agents (though he didn't know it). Although ME2 put a 'nice' front on Cerberus, it was obvious that they were devious bastards because you kept coming across their scummy schemes in the game, it was obvious they would be a threat. Not only that, but ME2 is the story of the Reapers attempt to reopen the Citadel after Sovereign failed, the whole point of the Collector plot is that they are making a Reaper to take his place in opening the Citadel, when that fails, then Harbinger wakes the other Reapers and they take the long route to the Milky Way. The Reapers lack of control of the Citadel (first because Sovereign failed, then the Human Reaper was defeated) which is partly what makes a galaxy wide war possible for the third game, as they normally shut the relays down which wouldn't have been much fun to play through. Without ME2 we wouldn't have seen the Reapers coming to the galaxy, as far as ME1 was concerned we had prevented them from waking up. And this is ignoring other points I could make about how ME2 sets up the Tuchanka and Rannoch plots. People keep coming out with these claims that ME2 has nothing to do with ME3, but they're wrong. It's some weird viewpoint that people keep parroting. The main issue between ME2 and 3 is that Bioware didn't do nearly enough with the Collector Base decision and never gave the Reapers some kind of weakness or penalty because they took the long route to invade. Mostly had nothing to do... The main story didnt make me feel that, so its mainly me, not parroting anything else. Collector path felt so detached. I enjoyed the side missions (and some of the "my daddy issue" missions of crew) which made me feel like ME1 again more than main mission. Bolded the second part which I agree with.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 13, 2018 16:14:13 GMT
a very bland main story, mostly had nothing to do with ME1 and ME3 at all. I completely disagree. Though the main villains of ME3 should have been the Reapers, it was actually Cerberus who were the main threat in ME3 as you fight them more than any other faction. Without ME2 they wouldn't have made any sense as the villains, and ME2 also introduced The Illusive Man who was the most visible of Reaper agents (though he didn't know it). Although ME2 put a 'nice' front on Cerberus, it was obvious that they were devious bastards because you kept coming across their scummy schemes in the game, it was obvious they would be a threat. Not only that, but ME2 is the story of the Reapers attempt to reopen the Citadel after Sovereign failed, the whole point of the Collector plot is that they are making a Reaper to take his place in opening the Citadel, when that fails, then Harbinger wakes the other Reapers and they take the long route to the Milky Way. The Reapers lack of control of the Citadel (first because Sovereign failed, then the Human Reaper was defeated) which is partly what makes a galaxy wide war possible for the third game, as they normally shut the relays down which wouldn't have been much fun to play through. Without ME2 we wouldn't have seen the Reapers coming to the galaxy, as far as ME1 was concerned we had prevented them from waking up. And this is ignoring other points I could make about how ME2 sets up the Tuchanka and Rannoch plots. People keep coming out with these claims that ME2 has nothing to do with ME3, but they're wrong. It's some weird viewpoint that people keep parroting. The main issue between ME2 and 3 is that Bioware didn't do nearly enough with the Collector Base decision and never gave the Reapers some kind of weakness or penalty because they took the long route to invade. By design, BioWare actively made the reapers an ill fit to be a primary antagonist to deal with in the game. Once we learned what Sovereign was, and what its faction was about and what they could do, any hope of them being the primary baddies to deal with throughout the game went straight out the window. We're playing a puny infantryman with nothing but some measly guns in a team of 3 at any given time, whereas you have these overpowered immortal starships that are an all-consuming space swarm that brainwash entire populations and could simply bombard everything from orbit if they wanted to. What's funny is that TIM himself even points this out plainly at the temple on Thessia. I think that the games should have played up just how vulnerable they are without their trap, but then once we actually see a reaper in action, it's a total beast that can obliterate a fleet singlehanded.
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