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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2018 14:32:43 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). I think there is space for a first Contact war space battle VR experience or maybe a VS multiplayer game like battlefield with ground and space battles. I don't think it would fit as a story-driven entry into the series but the ME universe is so diverse I think they can make other game types. ಠ_ಠ If MEA doesn’t kill the franchise, that’s sure to do the trick.
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Post by link2twenty on Feb 20, 2018 14:51:03 GMT
I think there is space for a first Contact war space battle VR experience or maybe a VS multiplayer game like battlefield with ground and space battles. I don't think it would fit as a story-driven entry into the series but the ME universe is so diverse I think they can make other game types. ಠ_ಠ If MEA doesn’t kill the franchise, that’s sure to do the trick. Why? If it's made clear that people aren't buying an RPG I don't see the harm.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2018 15:36:07 GMT
ಠ_ಠ If MEA doesn’t kill the franchise, that’s sure to do the trick. Why? If it's made clear that people aren't buying an RPG I don't see the harm. I dunno. The franchise basically being gutted into another BF2 doesn't exactly seem harmless. It sure harms my chances of ever owning another Mass Effect game, because the singleplayer component is the only reason I'd ever buy it. Without it, it's as good as dead. You say that people aren't buying RPG's anymore, but is there actual data to show that they're just not worthwhile, or is it just EA that isn't interested? Seems to me that other excellent, focused singleplayer games still come out here and there, and while they may not have the level of options and customization as I've grown accustomed to from BioWare's past work, they still provided a lot of what I love about these sorts of games, and did some things much better than BioWare's recent works, especially on a technical level.
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Post by tatann on Feb 20, 2018 15:51:34 GMT
I don't mind a sidegrade (TPS/FPS, space combat, card game, ...), if they put another team on it, as long as they keep working on a singleplayer RPG
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Post by link2twenty on Feb 20, 2018 16:00:40 GMT
Why? If it's made clear that people aren't buying an RPG I don't see the harm. I dunno. The franchise basically being gutted into another BF2 doesn't exactly seem harmless. It sure harms my chances of ever owning another Mass Effect game, because the singleplayer component is the only reason I'd ever buy it. Without it, it's as good as dead. You say that people aren't buying RPG's anymore, but is there actual data to show that they're just not worthwhile, or is it just EA that isn't interested? Seems to me that other excellent, focused singleplayer games still come out here and there, and while they may not have the level of options and customization as I've grown accustomed to from BioWare's past work, they still provided a lot of what I love about these sorts of games, and did some things much better than BioWare's recent works, especially on a technical level. Sorry, I didn't mean people don't buy RPGs I mean as long as Bioware didn't trick their customers into thinking this particular game was an RPG. I'd quite like someone to run with a multiplayer Mass Effect game specifically to keep EA happy so Bioware can work on an SP game without having to split their resources into a multiplayer element.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 20, 2018 18:21:55 GMT
I dunno. The franchise basically being gutted into another BF2 doesn't exactly seem harmless. It sure harms my chances of ever owning another Mass Effect game, because the singleplayer component is the only reason I'd ever buy it. Without it, it's as good as dead. You say that people aren't buying RPG's anymore, but is there actual data to show that they're just not worthwhile, or is it just EA that isn't interested? Seems to me that other excellent, focused singleplayer games still come out here and there, and while they may not have the level of options and customization as I've grown accustomed to from BioWare's past work, they still provided a lot of what I love about these sorts of games, and did some things much better than BioWare's recent works, especially on a technical level. Sorry, I didn't mean people don't buy RPGs I mean as long as Bioware didn't trick their customers into thinking this particular game was an RPG. I'd quite like someone to run with a multiplayer Mass Effect game specifically to keep EA happy so Bioware can work on an SP game without having to split their resources into a multiplayer element. Thing is, any game made under EA, Mass Effect or whatever, is going to have some kind of multiplayer mode tacked on to it. However well it ties into the campaign is anyone’s guess, but it’ll be there. Needless to say, a full-blown multiplayer Mass Effect game would essentially mean the death of singleplayer Mass Effect, and I’d have to buy a 40 of Ryncol to pour on the curb.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 22, 2018 2:19:01 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). I've never understood why having a canon ending is so bad in the same universe where the Reapers were controlled by a child AI or the protagonist dies and wakes up later like nothing happened, and the villains are capable of mind controlling people and making them believe certain things happened that actually didn't. The writing at the end of ME3 wasn't just bad, it was boring and anticlimactic. Personally? I'd gladly welcome a canon color ending or Indoctrination Theory or some other absurd premise if the result is a game anywhere near as good as ME2 that's set in the same basic universe.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 22, 2018 7:20:14 GMT
I'd quite like someone to run with a multiplayer Mass Effect game specifically to keep EA happy so Bioware can work on an SP game without having to split their resources into a multiplayer element. That wouldn't happen. An SP-only Bio game would have less projected revenue since it wouldn't have access to the microtransactions cash cow. A game with less projected revenue gets a smaller budget.
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Post by cszoltan on Feb 26, 2018 16:32:21 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). I've never understood why having a canon ending is so bad in the same universe where the Reapers were controlled by a child AI or the protagonist dies and wakes up later like nothing happened, and the villains are capable of mind controlling people and making them believe certain things happened that actually didn't. The writing at the end of ME3 wasn't just bad, it was boring and anticlimactic. Personally? I'd gladly welcome a canon color ending or Indoctrination Theory or some other absurd premise if the result is a game anywhere near as good as ME2 that's set in the same basic universe. How is any of that relevant to what I said? The writing quality of ME3's ending has absolutely nothing to do with forcing a canon ending on the story. Which is bad because it turns every choice you made in 3 games irrelevant.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 26, 2018 16:52:43 GMT
Even if I hated MEA (which I didn't) I still would like a sequel. I just hate unfinished things, I think it looks bad for a franchise. Besides, what else could they do? The Milky Way wouldn't work for the same reasons it didn't work before. Post-ME3 the world state is just too diverse to make a setting out of it. Unless they make a canon ending which would be a spit in the face. And a prequel is just fucking boring. Why should I care about irrelevant people doing irrelevant things that either have no impact or we already know what happened (god save us from a First Contact War game). I've never understood why having a canon ending is so bad in the same universe where the Reapers were controlled by a child AI or the protagonist dies and wakes up later like nothing happened, and the villains are capable of mind controlling people and making them believe certain things happened that actually didn't. The writing at the end of ME3 wasn't just bad, it was boring and anticlimactic. Personally? I'd gladly welcome a canon color ending or Indoctrination Theory or some other absurd premise if the result is a game anywhere near as good as ME2 that's set in the same basic universe. It's been argued that the premise itself can be just as problematic. Just look at all the complaints about leaving the galaxy when so much of the Milky Way is left unexplored. Granted, these complaints would probably be drowned out a bit if the game turned out to be considered some sort of masterpiece in spite of that, but I get the feeling that doubling down on any of the iffy endings Bio made for ME3 would make it harder for any follow-up title. Considering how much they seemed to hate any mention of Indoctrination Theory, they'd probably leave that corpse in its unmarked grave. Andromeda's premise struck me as the safest possible route to take, but I guess second best would probably be a heavily-retconned Destroy, since Shepard simply surviving the ordeal, even if now dead due to a time jump, would probably be more accepted overall.
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Post by Daft Arbiter on Feb 27, 2018 21:49:14 GMT
I've never understood why having a canon ending is so bad in the same universe where the Reapers were controlled by a child AI or the protagonist dies and wakes up later like nothing happened, and the villains are capable of mind controlling people and making them believe certain things happened that actually didn't. The writing at the end of ME3 wasn't just bad, it was boring and anticlimactic. Personally? I'd gladly welcome a canon color ending or Indoctrination Theory or some other absurd premise if the result is a game anywhere near as good as ME2 that's set in the same basic universe. How is any of that relevant to what I said? The writing quality of ME3's ending has absolutely nothing to do with forcing a canon ending on the story. Which is bad because it turns every choice you made in 3 games irrelevant. It's relevant in the sense that my point is that something bad is worth retconning; in this case I believe it's worth retconning to a canon ending so as to sidestep a lot of the messiness of how ME3 ended up. It's been argued that the premise itself can be just as problematic. Just look at all the complaints about leaving the galaxy when so much of the Milky Way is left unexplored. Granted, these complaints would probably be drowned out a bit if the game turned out to be considered some sort of masterpiece in spite of that, but I get the feeling that doubling down on any of the iffy endings Bio made for ME3 would make it harder for any follow-up title. Considering how much they seemed to hate any mention of Indoctrination Theory, they'd probably leave that corpse in its unmarked grave. Andromeda's premise struck me as the safest possible route to take, but I guess second best would probably be a heavily-retconned Destroy, since Shepard simply surviving the ordeal, even if now dead due to a time jump, would probably be more accepted overall. I don't think Destroy even needs that much retconning to be viable, so long as they make sure to stick with the "Path of least number of NPC deaths." The only ones other than the Reapers who got completely wiped in High EMS were the Geth and considering those are constructs, it's easy to say "The Quarians decided to rebuild the Geth and avoid the mistakes of the past" or something to that effect.
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Post by cszoltan on Feb 28, 2018 10:38:06 GMT
How is any of that relevant to what I said? The writing quality of ME3's ending has absolutely nothing to do with forcing a canon ending on the story. Which is bad because it turns every choice you made in 3 games irrelevant. It's relevant in the sense that my point is that something bad is worth retconning; in this case I believe it's worth retconning to a canon ending so as to sidestep a lot of the messiness of how ME3 ended up. Well first of all, I don't think it was bad. But even if I did, I wouldn't want a canon ending because that would retcon more than just ME3.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 2, 2018 5:54:55 GMT
IT's not a "retcon" to have a sequel set in a universe which had one particular Shepard who did particular things. After all, my second MET playthrough didn't retcon my first playthrough.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 5, 2018 6:44:40 GMT
It's relevant in the sense that my point is that something bad is worth retconning; in this case I believe it's worth retconning to a canon ending so as to sidestep a lot of the messiness of how ME3 ended up. Well first of all, I don't think it was bad. But even if I did, I wouldn't want a canon ending because that would retcon more than just ME3. Technically, a retcon would be something like the geth and EDI surviving in a canonized Destroy outcome, undoing that little hostage situation that gave the only incentive to not pick Destroy in the first place.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 5, 2018 7:12:14 GMT
It's been argued that the premise itself can be just as problematic. Just look at all the complaints about leaving the galaxy when so much of the Milky Way is left unexplored. Granted, these complaints would probably be drowned out a bit if the game turned out to be considered some sort of masterpiece in spite of that, but I get the feeling that doubling down on any of the iffy endings Bio made for ME3 would make it harder for any follow-up title. Considering how much they seemed to hate any mention of Indoctrination Theory, they'd probably leave that corpse in its unmarked grave. Andromeda's premise struck me as the safest possible route to take, but I guess second best would probably be a heavily-retconned Destroy, since Shepard simply surviving the ordeal, even if now dead due to a time jump, would probably be more accepted overall. I agree that Andromeda was probably the safest option for BioWare, I just don't think anything they would try to the endings would make the situation any better then leaving for Andromeda and in plenty of possible outcomes it might be worse. Just because some people say they wouldn't mind a "canon ending" I really don't think it would go over that well due to how the internet is looking for a reason to rage. Even with the problems in Andromeda I think it is still safer for BioWare to stay there then to go back and even think of adjusting anything as a reason to canon ending it will go back to what we started to see at the end of Mass Effect 1 with the thread posts of "my choices don't matter" especially when you see people complaining that they didn't get an "awesome CGI battle based on my choices" which I saw several times. Its the same as people saying "I want an open world BioWare game" that group of people might be saying it, but in reality it didn't go over well for they never thought out the trade-offs that would happen.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 5, 2018 7:19:33 GMT
Sorry, I didn't mean people don't buy RPGs I mean as long as Bioware didn't trick their customers into thinking this particular game was an RPG. I'd quite like someone to run with a multiplayer Mass Effect game specifically to keep EA happy so Bioware can work on an SP game without having to split their resources into a multiplayer element. That will never happen. There are a couple of flaws in your thinking, the first is that MP is added to keep people playing the game after they finish or stop playing the single player content. Because otherwise people won't buy DLC for single player and they won't make revenue that way. The other problem is that isn't how big budgets work, EA and BioWare's Mass Effect development team will sit down and assign costs to a variety of different areas of the game including multiplayer, animations, voice over work, etc. The money that would be used for MP would just be removed from the game entirely and not mystically added to the other areas of the game. If EA and BioWare could agree on more money for different areas MP would still be there for it is a separate budget item.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 7:22:33 GMT
Does ME:A have less animations than previous games, or is it just that the game is bigger and what they have is spread out too far? It's hardly about the animations. It's more of an empty feel to what they do in MEA. They shout at each other, whereas in ME3 they gave the illusion of hanging out with each other and having a good time. Garrus telling his war tales to a few listeners, Garrus and James staring down each other or parts of the crew playing a game of cards. That's totally missing in MEA. They only stand by themselves in various places or - I guess Liam's the only one doing that - move between two points in rapid succession. They always are alone, which makes it so much easier to discard them as bots. It's a regression to ME1. I recall BW saying that MEA was designed to be a spiritual successor to ME1. Or what ME1 was supposed to be like. Least as far as exploration and colonizing goes, because that is it's main focus.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 22, 2018 12:28:54 GMT
The more I think about it, more I realize going back to Milky Way is a major mistake without a total reboot of franchise. BioWare insists for Mass Effect to be a human story, it insists to make heroic wold changing stories and that is just not possible with current ME Lore. BioWare made humanity way too powerful in way too short time from First Contact War til start of ME1. As well FCW is hardly a war and more of a skirmish that results 100+ casualties on both sides, lasted about a month and ended with status quo on territorial changes. And no other major conflict happened beyond wacka-a-mole with pirates and terrorists attacking human colonies until ME1 events. As well most of Cerberus development happened from ME2 til start of ME3, so can't even go with that route either without making a very short game.
ME lore on humanity is ultimately broken. So BioWare has to either make a game set in Milky Way without having any humans at all, or do a reboot of trilogy and make lore on humanity far more realistic( and interesting) or continue with Andromeda where there's still a lot of wiggle room and you can go forward.
Oh right, forget about a game set in Milky Way after ME3 ending, it will never ever happen. ME3 ending just screws up way too much for that.
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Post by Croatsky on Mar 22, 2018 12:47:31 GMT
Does ME:A have less animations than previous games, or is it just that the game is bigger and what they have is spread out too far? It's hardly about the animations. It's more of an empty feel to what they do in MEA. They shout at each other, whereas in ME3 they gave the illusion of hanging out with each other and having a good time. Garrus telling his war tales to a few listeners, Garrus and James staring down each other or parts of the crew playing a game of cards. That's totally missing in MEA. They only stand by themselves in various places or - I guess Liam's the only one doing that - move between two points in rapid succession. They always are alone, which makes it so much easier to discard them as bots. It's a regression to ME1. Uh, no? There was no interaction between the crew in ME1 on Normandy beyond main plot story debrief's( point of which is to discuss plot, not character interaction nor development) and love triangle issue. ME2 was pretty bad too, as crew only seem to interact with EDI, conflicts( only Miranda vs Jack and Legion vs Tali) and Suicide Mission. ME3 is first to get Normandy interactions an actual thing! This is the game where our crew get's to chat with one another on different locations on ship as story progresses. One issue ME3 has is crew, beyond some nameless NPC's, never move. Sure they appear from one room to another as story progresses, but they are still just standing or sitting, with only basic use of animations. And talking trough intercoms was a thing in ME3 too. ME:A expands it by giving some movement to your crew, although rather basic and limited to Liam. But just like in ME3, ME:A crew switches around room as story progresses and crew does talk to each other in same room, like in ME3. There is more talks trough intercom for sure, but that is somewhat justified as Tempest has a very tiny crew as there are no nameless NPC's roaming around. So every person on Tempest does it's work constantly, so talking with is only possible via intercoms. And another thing ME:A does and ME3 didn't, your crew actually interacts in cutscenes on Tempest not related to the main plot! And even when related to main plot, they don't just advance the plot but also character development. ME:A did the best job on character interaction, to say they regressed back to ME1 is just foolish thing to say even if I were to concede ME3 did it better. Clearly ME:A did superior job then ME1 and ME2, while I also staunchly think it also did better then ME3 too.
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Post by sil on Mar 22, 2018 13:13:51 GMT
The more I think about it, more I realize going back to Milky Way is a major mistake without a total reboot of franchise. BioWare insists for Mass Effect to be a human story, it insists to make heroic wold changing stories and that is just not possible with current ME Lore. BioWare made humanity way too powerful in way too short time from First Contact War til start of ME1. As well FCW is hardly a war and more of a skirmish that results 100+ casualties on both sides, lasted about a month and ended with status quo on territorial changes. And no other major conflict happened beyond wacka-a-mole with pirates and terrorists attacking human colonies until ME1 events. As well most of Cerberus development happened from ME2 til start of ME3, so can't even go with that route either without making a very short game. ME lore on humanity is ultimately broken. So BioWare has to either make a game set in Milky Way without having any humans at all, or do a reboot of trilogy and make lore on humanity far more realistic( and interesting) or continue with Andromeda where there's still a lot of wiggle room and you can go forward. Oh right, forget about a game set in Milky Way after ME3 ending, it will never ever happen. ME3 ending just screws up way too much for that. It would be nice if a sequel had mankind getting 'demoted' again in some way, either by losing a lot of its population (and so losing power as a result) or by doing something drastically wrong that makes the other races find us untrustworthy and without foresight. ME was most fun when humans are the under dogs, and it makes the most sense when we are.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2018 16:03:53 GMT
The more I think about it, more I realize going back to Milky Way is a major mistake without a total reboot of franchise. BioWare insists for Mass Effect to be a human story, it insists to make heroic wold changing stories and that is just not possible with current ME Lore. BioWare made humanity way too powerful in way too short time from First Contact War til start of ME1. As well FCW is hardly a war and more of a skirmish that results 100+ casualties on both sides, lasted about a month and ended with status quo on territorial changes. And no other major conflict happened beyond wacka-a-mole with pirates and terrorists attacking human colonies until ME1 events. As well most of Cerberus development happened from ME2 til start of ME3, so can't even go with that route either without making a very short game. ME lore on humanity is ultimately broken. So BioWare has to either make a game set in Milky Way without having any humans at all, or do a reboot of trilogy and make lore on humanity far more realistic( and interesting) or continue with Andromeda where there's still a lot of wiggle room and you can go forward. Oh right, forget about a game set in Milky Way after ME3 ending, it will never ever happen. ME3 ending just screws up way too much for that. It would be nice if a sequel had mankind getting 'demoted' again in some way, either by losing a lot of its population (and so losing power as a result) or by doing something drastically wrong that makes the other races find us untrustworthy and without foresight. ME was most fun when humans are the under dogs, and it makes the most sense when we are. The funny thing about being "demoted" in Mass Effect is that the lower on the rung you are, the more special you are to the story. It's clear from the onset that any Mass Effect game going forward will have a human-only protagonist, so we'll just be special no matter how puny we are. After the trilogy though, I'm not sure. Humans basically led the final assault on the reapers at the homeworld of humanity, and the most notable hero of the war is a human. Needless to say, it's kinda too late. They'd really have to just toss some kind of wrench into the narrative to suddenly have the xenos saying "Rawr we hate all humans again". I want the salarians to have the main antagonist faction. They're really due for one, I think, with all their mad scientists and wayward dealings with uplifting and research.
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hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 22, 2018 16:25:42 GMT
It's clear from the onset that any Mass Effect game going forward will have a human-only protagonist I hope not. After Ryder I hope the next protagonist has race options. Bioware knows how popular that is, since it was that popularity that caused DAI to have it again.
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sil
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sil
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Post by sil on Mar 22, 2018 16:28:44 GMT
It would be nice if a sequel had mankind getting 'demoted' again in some way, either by losing a lot of its population (and so losing power as a result) or by doing something drastically wrong that makes the other races find us untrustworthy and without foresight. ME was most fun when humans are the under dogs, and it makes the most sense when we are. The funny thing about being "demoted" in Mass Effect is that the lower on the rung you are, the more special you are to the story. It's clear from the onset that any Mass Effect game going forward will have a human-only protagonist, so we'll just be special no matter how puny we are. After the trilogy though, I'm not sure. Humans basically led the final assault on the reapers at the homeworld of humanity, and the most notable hero of the war is a human. Needless to say, it's kinda too late. They'd really have to just toss some kind of wrench into the narrative to suddenly have the xenos saying "Rawr we hate all humans again". I want the salarians to have the main antagonist faction. They're really due for one, I think, with all their mad scientists and wayward dealings with uplifting and research. It would be easier to do in Andromeda because of the situation and the numbers, there are less than 20,000 humans there, it wouldn't take the loss of many to reduce their influence. Plus there are more immediate chances to balls things up by exploring a new galaxy; if they unleashed a new threat or some initiative set up by humanity goes catastrophically wrong, they would lose influence. For the Milky Way it is harder. In some post-ME3 setting I imagine the best way for mankind to make the races hate them is just by being humans. The power-grabbing, arrogant, aggressive humans that are typically in charge of things would likely grate against the other races more than the original Council did. It's quite clear in the games and books that mankind are viewed as an upstart species that are pressing for too much too soon, and I doubt that winning the war with the Reapers will help. Depending upon how long after ME3 a game in the Milky Way is set, the war against the Reapers could be a distant memory to all races but the Krogan and Asari, at which point, the fact they led the charge would have diminished in the eyes of many. Afterall, the Krogan saved the galaxy from the Rachni, but their aggressive expansion led to them being laid low, and the same could happen to mankind. In fact, I think it'd be great to see a story where that happens.
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themikefest
15,635
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themikefest
21,655
15,426
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Post by themikefest on Mar 22, 2018 16:31:44 GMT
I hope not. After Ruder I hope the next protagonist has race options. Bioware knows how popular that is, since it was that popularity that caused DAI to have it again. If they offer the player to play as a different species, I most likely stick with human
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 22, 2018 16:33:29 GMT
I hope not. After Ruder I hope the next protagonist has race options. Bioware knows how popular that is, since it was that popularity that caused DAI to have it again. If they offer the player to play as a different species, I most likely stick with human Okay. You should have that option, just like others should have to option to play something other than human.
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