dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 26, 2018 16:25:06 GMT
I think there are too many factors and unknowns to completely write off a direct sequel. Yes there wasn't DLC, but we don't know the reasoning either. Andromeda might be successful enough for EA to want to continue, but at the time they released the final patch it wasn't worth doing DLC at that time since the longer after release the less DLC sells and they didn't want to the additional PR mess of what WBIE did with Arkham Origins when they said they are focusing on DLC over patching. After the last patch they tried to re-brand the game. They re-released the demo, they did a marketing campaign with NVidia, they re-released the survey to get player feedback. They would not have done any of that if they had already made up their mind to pull the plug. They would have continued with Andromeda had they thought it was a viable option. They'd be taking a huge financial risk releasing a direct sequel, knowing that if the game doesn't do well the series is definitely over. Isn't that the case no matter where the setting or who the protagonist? People fail to see that the problem was that they tried to cram into 1-1/2 years what should have been done in 5 years. If a sequel actually got the time it deserved, there's no reason why it couldn't be a success. If they do the same shit they did last time, you could put Shepard back as the lead and it would still suck - except now it would tarnish Shepard and, by extension, the MET.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 26, 2018 16:42:43 GMT
After the last patch they tried to re-brand the game. They re-released the demo, they did a marketing campaign with NVidia, they re-released the survey to get player feedback. They would not have done any of that if they had already made up their mind to pull the plug. They would have continued with Andromeda had they thought it was a viable option. They'd be taking a huge financial risk releasing a direct sequel, knowing that if the game doesn't do well the series is definitely over. Isn't that the case no matter where the setting or who the protagonist? People fail to see that the problem was that they tried to cram into 1-1/2 years what should have been done in 5 years. If a sequel actually got the time it deserved, there's no reason why it couldn't be a success. If they do the same shit they did last time, you could put Shepard back as the lead and it would still suck - except now it would tarnish Shepard and, by extension, the MET. What are you going to change? Are Ryder and the crew all of sudden going to be grown up and you're going to change the overall tone of the game? Are you all of a sudden going to add a bunch of new races to the game for people who didn't like only having one new race? Is the terraforming going to be done in a couple of years, or are the worlds going to still be barren and empty. Are you going to give the Kett a complete overhaul to make them less of a joke. There were things people didn't like about the game that you can't really change. If you're making a direct sequel it means that people liked what they got the first time and you're giving them more of the same. People had issues with this game past animations and bugs.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 26, 2018 17:24:55 GMT
Isn't that the case no matter where the setting or who the protagonist? People fail to see that the problem was that they tried to cram into 1-1/2 years what should have been done in 5 years. If a sequel actually got the time it deserved, there's no reason why it couldn't be a success. If they do the same shit they did last time, you could put Shepard back as the lead and it would still suck - except now it would tarnish Shepard and, by extension, the MET. What are you going to change? Are Ryder and the crew all of sudden going to be grown up and you're going to change the overall tone of the game? Are you all of a sudden going to add a bunch of new races to the game for people who didn't like only having one new race? Is the terraforming going to be done in a couple of years, or are the worlds going to still be barren and empty. Are you going to give the Kett a complete overhaul to make them less of a joke. There were things people didn't like about the game that you can't really change. If you're making a direct sequel it means that people liked what they got the first time and you're giving them more of the same. People had issues with this game past animations and bugs. So, in a word, yes, Ryder can "grow up". Previously, Ryder had little experience (age: 22 - how did you behave at 22?) and previous job was either archaeologist or door guard at a relay. Following the events of MEA, a lot can change. Lots of things have happened. That can make for a change in personality, or at least potentially so. (I still believe more Renegade options should have been available and that can easily be put in for a sequel.) Also, the game took place in ONE cluster. How many different races did we see in any single cluster in the MW? Not a whole lot. The problem was that they made this cluster overly large. Still, if MEA2 expanded outward into additional clusters, we might just find additional races. Terraforming? I don't know. We don't really know what the vaults can do. They had some immediate, dramatic changes in MEA. Add in a year or two and a lot could potentially happen. Even so, who cares? Why do the worlds need to be fully terraformed? Outside of ME1, how much did you see of any given world Shepard landed on? Almost nothing. Even in ME1, the planets we landed on were largely empty. If you're going to criticize MEA for that issue, please do so for the MET as well. As for the kett, we only ever saw the Archon's people and we know that the Archon wasn't following procedure. He had his own agenda and it screwed things up. We also know there's a kett empire out there with powerful people and almost certainly more races that they made their own. Sure, we mowed down what are essentially kett minions. In large part, we did the same for Reaper minions - husks, Collectors, and even geth (or at least the ones working for Saren). So what, exactly, makes this so different? The Reapers themselves were a huge threat, but Sovereign still went down and we didn't see another living Reaper until ME3. Why does a single MEA game have to live up to the MET in its entirety?
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Post by themikefest on Mar 26, 2018 17:33:07 GMT
I think cszoltan was referring to the slideshow that showed rachni on Tuchanka rather than krogan. If the krogan didn't go extinct, something happened to them that placed the krogan in control of their homeworld. Did the krogan rebel causing the other species to gang up on them to put them out of their misery, and then give the planet to the rachni? Or did the council species wait for the rachni to breed millions to have them invade Tuchanka wiping out the krogan? If not, I don't have an explanation why the rachni are on Tuchanka. I would believed they would go back to where they were before the reapers showed up after the reapers were destroyed. Another is for their help in destroying the reapers, the krogan were given a planet that was in better shape than Tuchanka. Once the krogan moved to their new home, the rachni moved to Tuchanka. Whatever happened, that scene looks to be far into the future.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 26, 2018 17:57:34 GMT
as for me, I don't care for the PC as long as the game is good. The other day I have a grimdark idea for a scene of re imagined Battle of London that You switch between Shepard and Cerberus Phantom and they take on different enemies. Some how, Shepard's crew outside of Liara gets converted into Reaper Husks while keeping their abilities and the Cerberus Phantom fights the Reaper Husk version of Shepard's crew. Then Javik mutates into a New Collector General and gets Possessed by Harbringer and goes into the Citadel and from Shepard's POV see Henry Lawson with a New Collector General leading an massive army of Collectors and their new Reaper Husks. Forcing T.I.M., Anderson, Shepard joining forces during the onslaught. Then Scene switches to the Cerberus Phantom's POV, and a player hears a Soveregin's voice, sees the Soveregin kills Anderson, T.I.M and Shepard and force the Cerberus Phantom to flee. I know that it could have been written better but it is a potential idea if they ever go with a Post Shepard Mass effect game in the Milk way with a more skillful writer
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Post by cypherj on Mar 26, 2018 18:09:59 GMT
What are you going to change? Are Ryder and the crew all of sudden going to be grown up and you're going to change the overall tone of the game? Are you all of a sudden going to add a bunch of new races to the game for people who didn't like only having one new race? Is the terraforming going to be done in a couple of years, or are the worlds going to still be barren and empty. Are you going to give the Kett a complete overhaul to make them less of a joke. There were things people didn't like about the game that you can't really change. If you're making a direct sequel it means that people liked what they got the first time and you're giving them more of the same. People had issues with this game past animations and bugs. So, in a word, yes, Ryder can "grow up". Previously, Ryder had little experience (age: 22 - how did you behave at 22?) and previous job was either archaeologist or door guard at a relay. Following the events of MEA, a lot can change. Lots of things have happened. That can make for a change in personality, or at least potentially so. (I still believe more Renegade options should have been available and that can easily be put in for a sequel.) Also, the game took place in ONE cluster. How many different races did we see in any single cluster in the MW? Not a whole lot. The problem was that they made this cluster overly large. Still, if MEA2 expanded outward into additional clusters, we might just find additional races. Terraforming? I don't know. We don't really know what the vaults can do. They had some immediate, dramatic changes in MEA. Add in a year or two and a lot could potentially happen. Even so, who cares? Why do the worlds need to be fully terraformed? Outside of ME1, how much did you see of any given world Shepard landed on? Almost nothing. Even in ME1, the planets we landed on were largely empty. If you're going to criticize MEA for that issue, please do so for the MET as well. As for the kett, we only ever saw the Archon's people and we know that the Archon wasn't following procedure. He had his own agenda and it screwed things up. We also know there's a kett empire out there with powerful people and almost certainly more races that they made their own. Sure, we mowed down what are essentially kett minions. In large part, we did the same for Reaper minions - husks, Collectors, and even geth (or at least the ones working for Saren). So what, exactly, makes this so different? The Reapers themselves were a huge threat, but Sovereign still went down and we didn't see another living Reaper until ME3. Why does a single MEA game have to live up to the MET in its entirety? I tired of the whole one cluster excuse. If the Kett can make it there, and we can migrate there, you can write a story for other races being there. They could have been running from the Kett empire. They could have moved there because the scourge destroyed their old system entirely, and hadn't made it's way there when they came. Also, if Andromeda had several new races with no explanation players would not have been screaming about how unrealistic it was having more than one new race in a cluster, let's be honest here. People made that up as an excuse once the criticism started. Before the game came out no one was saying, there better not be too many new races in the game with it all taking place in one cluster. Also we did not mow down Collectors, they killed you in the first scene to set the tone, and then you spent an entire game building up your strength before you faced them again. Whenever ever you went onto a collector ship you sneaked on, did what you had to do and escaped on the Normandy. You didn't take it over or completely or run them out. In the OT the games had fodder enemies like Geth in ME1, mercs in ME2, and husks in ME3, so that the main enemies in the game could keep some sort of mystique about them until the end. You weren't killing collectors every mission and side mission, they threw out hordes of mecrs for that. Kett were both fodder and main enemy and you curb stomped them all game. But even the story as written, you overran the Archon's flagship and stole back the Salarian Ark, overran their base on Voeld and destroyed it. Took down their fleet with a bunch or drones. Had them run off Kadera entirely. Aside from activating the cannon on Horizon after the Collectors had mostly finished with what they were doing, when did you do stuff like this to them? Kett don't even have super fast transport, they use a version of arks, so how long before reinforcements arrive? But let's say the Kett do make it there with their real force. You still only have 200K people, not even all military and no war ships of any kind. It would be asking a lot for players who had a problem with the first game to pick up a sequel. I'm sure EA/Bioware looked at the last time people played the game, how many times they finished it, how many finished it, and compared it to other releases. Dragon Age 2 was rushed and got criticized for it, but it even got a couple of DLCs. Just having Andromeda in the title would probably cause a lot of people to not buy it. If they didn't like the characters, the story, the premise of the first game, why would they buy another with the same name? The name itself is toxic at this point.
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dmc1001
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 26, 2018 18:10:24 GMT
Phantom: That is dark. Personally, I'd convert Liara as well. Or, tbh, maybe your LI is the one who isn't converted rather than Liara be the only one to get a pass. However, how does Sovereign get there? That sucker bought the farm at the end of ME1, proving Reapers aren't as immortal as they like to think. Also, why a Cerberus Phantom? I know people are into them for some reason but they are categorically "bad guys", attacking humans, asari, salarian, husks, marauders, etc. with equal abandon.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 26, 2018 18:23:43 GMT
So, in a word, yes, Ryder can "grow up". Previously, Ryder had little experience (age: 22 - how did you behave at 22?) and previous job was either archaeologist or door guard at a relay. Following the events of MEA, a lot can change. Lots of things have happened. That can make for a change in personality, or at least potentially so. (I still believe more Renegade options should have been available and that can easily be put in for a sequel.) Also, the game took place in ONE cluster. How many different races did we see in any single cluster in the MW? Not a whole lot. The problem was that they made this cluster overly large. Still, if MEA2 expanded outward into additional clusters, we might just find additional races. Terraforming? I don't know. We don't really know what the vaults can do. They had some immediate, dramatic changes in MEA. Add in a year or two and a lot could potentially happen. Even so, who cares? Why do the worlds need to be fully terraformed? Outside of ME1, how much did you see of any given world Shepard landed on? Almost nothing. Even in ME1, the planets we landed on were largely empty. If you're going to criticize MEA for that issue, please do so for the MET as well. As for the kett, we only ever saw the Archon's people and we know that the Archon wasn't following procedure. He had his own agenda and it screwed things up. We also know there's a kett empire out there with powerful people and almost certainly more races that they made their own. Sure, we mowed down what are essentially kett minions. In large part, we did the same for Reaper minions - husks, Collectors, and even geth (or at least the ones working for Saren). So what, exactly, makes this so different? The Reapers themselves were a huge threat, but Sovereign still went down and we didn't see another living Reaper until ME3. Why does a single MEA game have to live up to the MET in its entirety? I tired of the whole one cluster excuse. If the Kett can make it there, and we can migrate there, you can write a story for other races being there. They could have been running from the Kett empire. They could have moved there because the scourge destroyed their old system entirely, and hadn't made it's way there when they came. Also, if Andromeda had several new races with no explanation players would not have been screaming about how unrealistic it was having more than one new race in a cluster, let's be honest here. People made that up as an excuse once the criticism started. Before the game came out no one was saying, there better not be too many new races in the game with it all taking place in one cluster. Also we did not mow down Collectors, they killed you in the first scene to set the tone, and then you spent an entire game building up your strength before you faced them again. Whenever ever you went onto a collector ship you sneaked on, did what you had to do and escaped on the Normandy. You didn't take it over or completely or run them out. In the OT the games had fodder enemies like Geth in ME1, mercs in ME2, and husks in ME3, so that the main enemies in the game could keep some sort of mystique about them until the end. You weren't killing collectors every mission and side mission, they threw out hordes of mecrs for that. Kett were both fodder and main enemy and you curb stomped them all game. But even the story as written, you overran the Archon's flagship and stole back the Salarian Ark, overran their base on Voeld and destroyed it. Took down their fleet with a bunch or drones. Had them run off Kadera entirely. Aside from activating the cannon on Horizon after the Collectors had mostly finished with what they were doing, when did you do stuff like this to them? Kett don't even have super fast transport, they use a version of arks, so how long before reinforcements arrive? But let's say the Kett do make it there with their real force. You still only have 200K people, not even all military and no war ships of any kind. It would be asking a lot for players who had a problem with the first game to pick up a sequel. I'm sure EA/Bioware looked at the last time people played the game, how many times they finished it, how many finished it, and compared it to other releases. Dragon Age 2 was rushed and got criticized for it, but it even got a couple of DLCs. Just having Andromeda in the title would probably cause a lot of people to not buy it. It they didn't like the characters, the story, the premise of the first game, why would they buy another with the same name? The name itself is toxic at this point. You're tired of it? Have you, I don't know, looked at the state of the planets in that cluster? Where, exactly, are all these races supposed to be living? On that asteroid belt that was meant to be the turian golden world? On Kadara, where the water is toxic? On Habitat 7, where the rocks float and the planet discharges electricity at random times and locations? Havarl, where the plant and animal life was constantly mutating out of control? Maybe that planet covered entirely in ice? It's like you just want to ignore what's inconvenient. The only place we saw that was perfectly viable was Aya and we know the Scourge itself kept the planet somewhat hidden, even from the kett. Yes, the Collectors killed me on the SR1. Every encounter thereafter had me killing them. I mowed them down. No, kett don't have super fast transportation. Can you tell me exactly where they are during the events of MEA so we can clarify whether they can arrive immediately or if it will take some time? What's that? No, you can't, because we don't know? Sounds like it would be perfect to allow a slight passage of time (2 years between ME1 and ME2, and roughly 6 months between ME2 and ME3) to allow for them to arrive. BTW, I don't claim MEA is perfect in every respect. I had a lot of issues with it myself. I just don't think it's the clusterfuck the loudest people want to claim it is, nor that it was so bad that they can't improve on it. Also, if you're going by how BioWare feels about the "last game", they have zero reason to go back to Shepard or the MW, given how much bitching and moaning was done about the endings. Tbh, if social media were on the same level in 2012 as it was in 2017, I think ME3 would have been utterly annihilated by critics.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 26, 2018 19:14:26 GMT
Phantom : That is dark. Personally, I'd convert Liara as well. Or, tbh, maybe your LI is the one who isn't converted rather than Liara be the only one to get a pass. However, how does Sovereign get there? That sucker bought the farm at the end of ME1, proving Reapers aren't as immortal as they like to think. Also, why a Cerberus Phantom? I know people are into them for some reason but they are categorically "bad guys", attacking humans, asari, salarian, husks, marauders, etc. with equal abandon. As for Liara, i have a very dark fate for her. As an psychotic indoctrinated Love-slave of Henry Lawson and a High Priest of an very much corrupted Siari Religion that Reaper are using to slowly indoctrinate people and make the Harvest slow but controllable. A form of Eugenics program to get the max genetic potential for New Reaper Ships. Yes I am using Henry Lawson as a Primary Bad guy due to he is under used within ME2(Miranda Lawson's loyality Mission) and ME3(Sancutary mission) With Sovereign, One of many ideas floating in my idea to keep the Eldrtrich Abomination feel of the Reapers is that Reaper has a Reaper Construct hidden within the Citadel that keeps the Essence or copy of Essence of the Reaper conscience, in its database. In short, you can kill Sovereign as many times as you want and he will return. Why a Cerberus Phantom, because it is out of Left field is the main reason. Someone is different from Shepard. As much as I am a fan of Shepard, I do think we should have a New Dedicated Player Character that is different from Shepard. Regardless if that PC does interact with Shepard or not. Yeah even if people want to roleplay as a Cerberus agent of any stripe, a believable story is required and with an option to be a racist dick, non hostile or positive view of Aliens. Personally If I was writing it, I would have one of the jokes would be, "Hello, I am A.Dick Ryder." while your Cerberus Phantom goes on an undercover mission(there will be several genuine racist that are aliens that you can call out on their own bullshit). Keep in mind that I do want a good Mass Effect game regardless of the Player Character. For example, a Quarian(within a Post Shepard game) that is an one of the last suriviors of Rannoch strive to find others to rebuild due to the heavy losses within the Reaper War. or a Blue Sun merc that is a bodyguard of a volus that search for artifacts for money and adventure. or a Headbutt goofy Krogan Soldier that wants to prove himself a worthy warrior and overall badass by traveling the galaxy. Of course if we went that route, I want the same voice actor for Grunt as for this Krogan.
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Post by sil on Mar 26, 2018 19:30:14 GMT
Technically there was more than one race in Heleus, sadly one was wiped out by the Scourge, you can see their primitive villages in the galaxy map. The other left behind only a torpedo.
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cypherj
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Post by cypherj on Mar 26, 2018 19:32:22 GMT
I tired of the whole one cluster excuse. If the Kett can make it there, and we can migrate there, you can write a story for other races being there. They could have been running from the Kett empire. They could have moved there because the scourge destroyed their old system entirely, and hadn't made it's way there when they came. Also, if Andromeda had several new races with no explanation players would not have been screaming about how unrealistic it was having more than one new race in a cluster, let's be honest here. People made that up as an excuse once the criticism started. Before the game came out no one was saying, there better not be too many new races in the game with it all taking place in one cluster. Also we did not mow down Collectors, they killed you in the first scene to set the tone, and then you spent an entire game building up your strength before you faced them again. Whenever ever you went onto a collector ship you sneaked on, did what you had to do and escaped on the Normandy. You didn't take it over or completely or run them out. In the OT the games had fodder enemies like Geth in ME1, mercs in ME2, and husks in ME3, so that the main enemies in the game could keep some sort of mystique about them until the end. You weren't killing collectors every mission and side mission, they threw out hordes of mecrs for that. Kett were both fodder and main enemy and you curb stomped them all game. But even the story as written, you overran the Archon's flagship and stole back the Salarian Ark, overran their base on Voeld and destroyed it. Took down their fleet with a bunch or drones. Had them run off Kadera entirely. Aside from activating the cannon on Horizon after the Collectors had mostly finished with what they were doing, when did you do stuff like this to them? Kett don't even have super fast transport, they use a version of arks, so how long before reinforcements arrive? But let's say the Kett do make it there with their real force. You still only have 200K people, not even all military and no war ships of any kind. It would be asking a lot for players who had a problem with the first game to pick up a sequel. I'm sure EA/Bioware looked at the last time people played the game, how many times they finished it, how many finished it, and compared it to other releases. Dragon Age 2 was rushed and got criticized for it, but it even got a couple of DLCs. Just having Andromeda in the title would probably cause a lot of people to not buy it. It they didn't like the characters, the story, the premise of the first game, why would they buy another with the same name? The name itself is toxic at this point. You're tired of it? Have you, I don't know, looked at the state of the planets in that cluster? Where, exactly, are all these races supposed to be living? On that asteroid belt that was meant to be the turian golden world? On Kadara, where the water is toxic? On Habitat 7, where the rocks float and the planet discharges electricity at random times and locations? Havarl, where the plant and animal life was constantly mutating out of control? Maybe that planet covered entirely in ice? It's like you just want to ignore what's inconvenient. The only place we saw that was perfectly viable was Aya and we know the Scourge itself kept the planet somewhat hidden, even from the kett. Yes, the Collectors killed me on the SR1. Every encounter thereafter had me killing them. I mowed them down. No, kett don't have super fast transportation. Can you tell me exactly where they are during the events of MEA so we can clarify whether they can arrive immediately or if it will take some time? What's that? No, you can't, because we don't know? Sounds like it would be perfect to allow a slight passage of time (2 years between ME1 and ME2, and roughly 6 months between ME2 and ME3) to allow for them to arrive. BTW, I don't claim MEA is perfect in every respect. I had a lot of issues with it myself. I just don't think it's the clusterfuck the loudest people want to claim it is, nor that it was so bad that they can't improve on it. Also, if you're going by how BioWare feels about the "last game", they have zero reason to go back to Shepard or the MW, given how much bitching and moaning was done about the endings. Tbh, if social media were on the same level in 2012 as it was in 2017, I think ME3 would have been utterly annihilated by critics. But yet people are living on all these worlds without the help of the Initiative, and before any vaults were activated. On Kadera, there's a side mission where someone has figured out how to filter the water to make I drinkable but wouldn't share it. On Eladeen there's a quest where they're talking about irrigation. So no, it's not far fetched to have people who have migrated there long before you making a living. Pretty much every one who left or was exiled had colonies. And no, storywise you were not mowing down collectors. When you sneaked onto their base and it was a trap, you escaped, and the sped off in the Normandy with Joker screaming that a collector ship was approaching because you knew you couldn't beat them in a fight at that point of the game. Even on the derelict reaper you ran off carrying Legion before you got overrun. Not nearly the same thing as what happened in Andromeda. I didn't say there's no way the Kett could make it to Andromeda in the next game. I plainly stated that even if the Kett did arrive with their full force in the next game you don't have the numbers or the military might to fight them. The entirety of the Initiative is 200K, maybe 300K once the last arc gets there, with hardly any military vehicles and no warships. Who said anything about Shepard or the Milky Way. I've stated in threads multiple times the best thing for them to do would be to stay in Andromeda and advance time way into the future to the point where things are well established, there is intergalactic transportation, the planets are back to their original states are the vaults. This is ignoring the fact that everyone should be on one planet anyway. The fact they had 25K humans spread out over several planets, when you had no means of defending any of them was one of my many problems I had with the entire premise of this game. None of it made any sense. But a direct sequel, still in the fledgling days of Andromeda, limited races, barren open world planets, still no back stories or history. ME1 was great because the galaxy had depth, it had history, Rachni Wars, Krogan uplifting, Genophage, Morning War, Contact War, things that set the tone for what was happening, what molded your characters and their motivations. Not, I'm here in Andromeda basically because I had nothing better to do with my life, which was the reason for some of the characters in this game. The game was shallow, and continuing it wouldn't improve the story much in a new game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 26, 2018 20:12:42 GMT
The problem is, advancing too far ahead completely ignores probably the most significant, lingering plot in the game, which is the Mysterious Benefactor. If you're going to ignore that, then you may as well wipe the slate clean.
Now, if the kett are that powerful, I guess that does make them a worthy threat after all.
And, I'm sorry, but escaping or otherwise, those Collectors in my path were still dying in droves, including the ones that were possessed by Harbinger. I don't have to be there on the attack. I just have to be the one doing the killing while they are doing the dying. And that's what happens. My point is, they die just as easily as kett, except when they do an attack on an unexpected attack on an unprepared vessel.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 26, 2018 23:37:19 GMT
I imagine if the kett did return to Heleus in full force, they’d have a hell of a time maneuvering their fleets through the scourge, which the Initiative/Angaran alliance would probably have a decent map of by then. And then there’s Meridian, a seemingly heavily fortified Dyson sphere-like artificial planet that serves as the central control for the cluster’s terraforming network.
Intergalactic travel is probably not going to be a regular thing. After all, part of the point of the game was basically to flat out avoid addressing the Milky Way’s issues, so it’s probably going to stay buried forever.
I’d prefer to see those other races at odds with the kett, or whatever’s left of the Jaardan, and I’d hope that they turn out to be a pain in the ass that want their toys back.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 27, 2018 2:17:57 GMT
Nope. After struggling to even log into DAI to finish it, I didn't bother with any DLC. Now how convenient is that? Just proves my point. They can change endings by writing things into future stories if need be. How does that in any way prove your point? Your point was that sometimes choices are getting ignored. Which evidently wasn't the case in your example. So now you move the goal post to choices can be written around. Which is true (but it wasn't your original point), but not always. Go ahead and try to write around this: World state 1: Krogan are a flourishing society, Reapers help rebuild, everyone is half synthetic. World state 2: Krogan are extinct, Rachni rule Tuchanka, every AI is destroyed. World state 1: The salarains are awesome and created another genophage(vs we never cured it in the first place) so the krogans are no longer flourishing, the reapers rebuilt and then left(vs it was lots of hard work but we eventually rebuilt), cybernetics are the norm but most aren't visible vs we are all synthetics because someone picked the worst option. World state two: Krogans weren't extinct but took heavy casualties, the combined forces eventually freed Tuchanka but you never visit to see it(so both of which you only know of from lines of dialogue and the small number of Krogan you always see in the games), a remorseful Quarian rebuilt the geth from data files found on the home world.(as opposed to not destroying them in the first place which is just crazy talk)
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 27, 2018 7:23:39 GMT
How does that in any way prove your point? Your point was that sometimes choices are getting ignored. Which evidently wasn't the case in your example. So now you move the goal post to choices can be written around. Which is true (but it wasn't your original point), but not always. Go ahead and try to write around this: World state 1: Krogan are a flourishing society, Reapers help rebuild, everyone is half synthetic. World state 2: Krogan are extinct, Rachni rule Tuchanka, every AI is destroyed. World state 1: The salarains are awesome and created another genophage(vs we never cured it in the first place) so the krogans are no longer flourishing, the reapers rebuilt and then left(vs it was lots of hard work but we eventually rebuilt), cybernetics are the norm but most aren't visible vs we are all synthetics because someone picked the worst option. World state two: Krogans weren't extinct but took heavy casualties, the combined forces eventually freed Tuchanka but you never visit to see it(so both of which you only know of from lines of dialogue and the small number of Krogan you always see in the games), a remorseful Quarian rebuilt the geth from data files found on the home world.(as opposed to not destroying them in the first place which is just crazy talk) So wait, in world state 1, the salarians actually counteract the effects of synthesis itself and create a new form of genophage? Assuming they can, why would they bother? And would this depend on the faction leader, or would they just do it regardless, funneling the species into the identical situation? Assuming the krogan didn’t get lobotomized in synthesis, there’s no way the salarians would be able to do this again without straight up attacking them head on with bioweapon warheads. I guess that could be interesting, since it would make the salarians the villain of this new jack galaxy, but really, the genophage is an issue that got resolved one way or another in ME3. We can’t just have the salarians re-infecting their species and just relegate that to just some background shenanigans. The answer to world state 2 makes no sense. If the krogan had the numbers to free Tuchanka, the rachni would not have been able to take it over in the first place. With the genophage in place, the krogan would not have a sustainable population as it is after the reaper war, and the rachni can multiply exponentially, with one queen being able to create legions of soldiers faster than the krogan can. In world state 2, they are doomed, especially since the rachni ruling Tuchanka means that the female clans on that planet were surely wiped out. It’s worth noting though that a big factor in the krogan’s decline was their behavior in response to the genophage itself. If their population is doomed to deal with both that and now a rachni invasion, any incentive to fight for their irradiated homeworld kind of goes out the window. The quarians can rebuild geth, but all those programs and their memories would be irreplaceable. Of course, if the quarians destroyed the geth outright rather than the Crucible doing it, then the geth would simply stay dead no matter what. Without the geth being able to retain any experiences up to that point, keeping them around is pretty pointless anyway.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 27, 2018 11:27:42 GMT
What are you going to change? Are Ryder and the crew all of sudden going to be grown up and you're going to change the overall tone of the game? Are you all of a sudden going to add a bunch of new races to the game for people who didn't like only having one new race? Is the terraforming going to be done in a couple of years, or are the worlds going to still be barren and empty. Are you going to give the Kett a complete overhaul to make them less of a joke. There were things people didn't like about the game that you can't really change. If you're making a direct sequel it means that people liked what they got the first time and you're giving them more of the same. People had issues with this game past animations and bugs. So, in a word, yes, Ryder can "grow up". Previously, Ryder had little experience (age: 22 - how did you behave at 22?) and previous job was either archaeologist or door guard at a relay. Following the events of MEA, a lot can change. Lots of things have happened. That can make for a change in personality, or at least potentially so. (I still believe more Renegade options should have been available and that can easily be put in for a sequel.) Also, the game took place in ONE cluster. How many different races did we see in any single cluster in the MW? Not a whole lot. The problem was that they made this cluster overly large. Still, if MEA2 expanded outward into additional clusters, we might just find additional races. Terraforming? I don't know. We don't really know what the vaults can do. They had some immediate, dramatic changes in MEA. Add in a year or two and a lot could potentially happen. Even so, who cares? Why do the worlds need to be fully terraformed? Outside of ME1, how much did you see of any given world Shepard landed on? Almost nothing. Even in ME1, the planets we landed on were largely empty. If you're going to criticize MEA for that issue, please do so for the MET as well. As for the kett, we only ever saw the Archon's people and we know that the Archon wasn't following procedure. He had his own agenda and it screwed things up. We also know there's a kett empire out there with powerful people and almost certainly more races that they made their own. Sure, we mowed down what are essentially kett minions. In large part, we did the same for Reaper minions - husks, Collectors, and even geth (or at least the ones working for Saren). So what, exactly, makes this so different? The Reapers themselves were a huge threat, but Sovereign still went down and we didn't see another living Reaper until ME3. Why does a single MEA game have to live up to the MET in its entirety?Bioware said before MEA was ever launched that it was a singular game and not a series like MET. They didn't promise anything outside of MEA. They weren't supposed to leave any unanswered questions at the end. I'm sure the DLC that had planned for it would have filled in the gaps, but since they cancelled them, your left with how the game ends. I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 27, 2018 11:31:57 GMT
The problem is, advancing too far ahead completely ignores probably the most significant, lingering plot in the game, which is the Mysterious Benefactor. If you're going to ignore that, then you may as well wipe the slate clean. Now, if the kett are that powerful, I guess that does make them a worthy threat after all. And, I'm sorry, but escaping or otherwise, those Collectors in my path were still dying in droves, including the ones that were possessed by Harbinger. I don't have to be there on the attack. I just have to be the one doing the killing while they are doing the dying. And that's what happens. My point is, they die just as easily as kett, except when they do an attack on an unexpected attack on an unprepared vessel. Unless the benefactor came to Andromeda, you don't need a direct sequel to figure who this person or group is? Honestly, even if they did come to Andromeda, it would make more sense to advance time into the future. Then you could have a story where they've been bidding their time, gathering their influence in the new galactic society, and have built up something similar to what they had in the MW. That's not going to happen in a few years. Then you can still go back and figure out how it started. Pushing time into the future allows you create so many things that the player can learn about, investigate, makes decisions from. If you took the reaper story out of the OT, there was still so much going on in the universe because of all of the history. You don't have that in Andromeda, but you can create whatever you want by advancing the story into the future. As for the Kett, if you think the Kett and the collectors were portrayed the same in their respective games, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 27, 2018 12:54:03 GMT
The problem is, advancing too far ahead completely ignores probably the most significant, lingering plot in the game, which is the Mysterious Benefactor. If you're going to ignore that, then you may as well wipe the slate clean. Now, if the kett are that powerful, I guess that does make them a worthy threat after all. And, I'm sorry, but escaping or otherwise, those Collectors in my path were still dying in droves, including the ones that were possessed by Harbinger. I don't have to be there on the attack. I just have to be the one doing the killing while they are doing the dying. And that's what happens. My point is, they die just as easily as kett, except when they do an attack on an unexpected attack on an unprepared vessel. Unless the benefactor came to Andromeda, you don't need a direct sequel to figure who this person or group is? Honestly, even if they did come to Andromeda, it would make more sense to advance time into the future. Then you could have a story where they've been bidding their time, gathering their influence in the new galactic society, and have built up something similar to what they had in the MW. That's not going to happen in a few years. Then you can still go back and figure out how it started. Pushing time into the future allows you create so many things that the player can learn about, investigate, makes decisions from. If you took the reaper story out of the OT, there was still so much going on in the universe because of all of the history. You don't have that in Andromeda, but you can create whatever you want by advancing the story into the future. As for the Kett, if you think the Kett and the collectors were portrayed the same in their respective games, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that. A galactic society similar to the Milky Way isn't really in the cards for Andromeda, not without something akin to the relays. But a huge time skip isn't really necessary. But really, this is just one cluster, one that is kind of murky in what's actually in it due to the scourge. It would be like setting the entire game in the Hades Gamma cluster then going forward in time to fill it up without really knowing what's beyond it. The kett subjugated a lot of species, so the galaxy probably already has a bit of a galactic society, albeit one probably at war with the kett. As for the Collectors, I suppose the biggest difference is that the Collectors have no characters at all. The thing I found disappointing was that every time one spoke, it was just Harbinger speaking remotely. Meanwhile, we get the impression that they actually speak to people and buy and sell things, but for us they were never entities in themselves that can be interacted with outside of gunfire. That they turned out to be protheans was cool, but they were basically just husks with weapons training. Once their mystique was lifted, they just became basic monsters again. In terms of gameplay, they at least had better enemy variety, particularly the Praetorian, which to me was always the coolest baddie we fight with in the game, and the only enemy that genuinely made me nervous to battle in any ME game outside of that damn Krogan battlemaster in ME1.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 27, 2018 14:39:57 GMT
Unless the benefactor came to Andromeda, you don't need a direct sequel to figure who this person or group is? Honestly, even if they did come to Andromeda, it would make more sense to advance time into the future. Then you could have a story where they've been bidding their time, gathering their influence in the new galactic society, and have built up something similar to what they had in the MW. That's not going to happen in a few years. Then you can still go back and figure out how it started. Pushing time into the future allows you create so many things that the player can learn about, investigate, makes decisions from. If you took the reaper story out of the OT, there was still so much going on in the universe because of all of the history. You don't have that in Andromeda, but you can create whatever you want by advancing the story into the future. As for the Kett, if you think the Kett and the collectors were portrayed the same in their respective games, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that. A galactic society similar to the Milky Way isn't really in the cards for Andromeda, not without something akin to the relays. But a huge time skip isn't really necessary. But really, this is just one cluster, one that is kind of murky in what's actually in it due to the scourge. It would be like setting the entire game in the Hades Gamma cluster then going forward in time to fill it up without really knowing what's beyond it. The kett subjugated a lot of species, so the galaxy probably already has a bit of a galactic society, albeit one probably at war with the kett. As for the Collectors, I suppose the biggest difference is that the Collectors have no characters at all. The thing I found disappointing was that every time one spoke, it was just Harbinger speaking remotely. Meanwhile, we get the impression that they actually speak to people and buy and sell things, but for us they were never entities in themselves that can be interacted with outside of gunfire. That they turned out to be protheans was cool, but they were basically just husks with weapons training. Once their mystique was lifted, they just became basic monsters again. In terms of gameplay, they at least had better enemy variety, particularly the Praetorian, which to me was always the coolest baddie we fight with in the game, and the only enemy that genuinely made me nervous to battle in any ME game outside of that damn Krogan battlemaster in ME1. I don't need something similar to the MW society. Even if other races you met fleeing the scourge or the Kett that found themselves in the Helius Cluster because it was one of the only free clusters left. I just would have no interest in a having a direct sequel in the fledgling days of the colony with maybe 30K humans. Things need to be built up some. A few years into the future is not going to offer up enough. As for the Collecters and the Kett, I'm talking about how they were portrayed in the game's story. Collectors killed you in the prologue of the game. In the prologue of Andromeda you take a scout team onto Habitat 7 and take an entire vault from a garrison of Kett. The Collectors were shown as being more technologically advanced than you, to the point where you needed to develop defenses from the swarms and their weapons. Andromeda, no such thing, you seemingly start out ahead of the Kett from a technology perspective. In ME2 you think you've one upped the Collectors, only to find out it's a trap and you flee for your lives from their base. In Andromeda you take over their exaltation facility and destroy it, taking their prized captive in the process. The Collectors invaded colonies, conquered them and took the people. In Andromeda, the colonists not only defended themselves against the Kett, but ran them off the planet entirely. A group that probably numbered in the hundreds said GTFO, and don't come back. That was point when I could no longer even take the Kett seriously as antagonists. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 27, 2018 14:41:57 GMT
I imagine if the kett did return to Heleus in full force, they’d have a hell of a time maneuvering their fleets through the scourge, which the Initiative/Angaran alliance would probably have a decent map of by then. And then there’s Meridian, a seemingly heavily fortified Dyson sphere-like artificial planet that serves as the central control for the cluster’s terraforming network. The only time they had trouble with the scrouge is Aya. The other locations, outposts and Nexus, would be easy targets for the kett. Since they have seen the memories of little Ryder, they know what she/he knows. I can see them being able to get around the scrouge to reach Aya. The only time the scrouge gave them problems was at Meridian. Take that away, little Ryder and others would have been wiped out. The Initiative have nothing to stop the kett from attacking. Meridain is an unknown. How long will it take to know its full potential? If the kett decide to attack right after the events of MEA, something I would do, it won't matter what Meridian's capabilities are.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 27, 2018 15:15:29 GMT
So, in a word, yes, Ryder can "grow up". Previously, Ryder had little experience (age: 22 - how did you behave at 22?) and previous job was either archaeologist or door guard at a relay. Following the events of MEA, a lot can change. Lots of things have happened. That can make for a change in personality, or at least potentially so. (I still believe more Renegade options should have been available and that can easily be put in for a sequel.) Also, the game took place in ONE cluster. How many different races did we see in any single cluster in the MW? Not a whole lot. The problem was that they made this cluster overly large. Still, if MEA2 expanded outward into additional clusters, we might just find additional races. Terraforming? I don't know. We don't really know what the vaults can do. They had some immediate, dramatic changes in MEA. Add in a year or two and a lot could potentially happen. Even so, who cares? Why do the worlds need to be fully terraformed? Outside of ME1, how much did you see of any given world Shepard landed on? Almost nothing. Even in ME1, the planets we landed on were largely empty. If you're going to criticize MEA for that issue, please do so for the MET as well. As for the kett, we only ever saw the Archon's people and we know that the Archon wasn't following procedure. He had his own agenda and it screwed things up. We also know there's a kett empire out there with powerful people and almost certainly more races that they made their own. Sure, we mowed down what are essentially kett minions. In large part, we did the same for Reaper minions - husks, Collectors, and even geth (or at least the ones working for Saren). So what, exactly, makes this so different? The Reapers themselves were a huge threat, but Sovereign still went down and we didn't see another living Reaper until ME3. Why does a single MEA game have to live up to the MET in its entirety?Bioware said before MEA was ever launched that it was a singular game and not a series like MET. They didn't promise anything outside of MEA. They weren't supposed to leave any unanswered questions at the end. I'm sure the DLC that had planned for it would have filled in the gaps, but since they cancelled them, your left with how the game ends. I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already. When they said that, they were talking about how it wasn’t a concrete trilogy like Shepard’s story was but rather the Andromeda games would be more similar to how they do the Dragon Age games. They said that some things, like the Brnefactor, was part of the megastory and would span over the multiple games. That’s also why we are only in a single cluster, since the plan is as more games come out we expand further and further into Andromeda.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 27, 2018 15:20:27 GMT
Bioware said before MEA was ever launched that it was a singular game and not a series like MET. They didn't promise anything outside of MEA. They weren't supposed to leave any unanswered questions at the end. I'm sure the DLC that had planned for it would have filled in the gaps, but since they cancelled them, your left with how the game ends. I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already. When they said that, they were talking about how it wasn’t a concrete trilogy like Shepard’s story was but rather the Andromeda games would be more similar to how they do the Dragon Age games. They said that some things, like the Brnefactor, was part of the megastory and would span over the multiple games. That’s also why we are only in a single cluster, since the plan is as more games come out we expand further and further into Andromeda. Yep, the plan wasn't a trilogy but multiple games that work off the previous one to further the overall Andromeda story. The only thing the "Mass Effect Andromeda" universe needs is a re-focus on solid world building and character development and they could accomplish this quite easily with the foundation established with the first game carried over into a sequel.
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cszoltan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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cszoltan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by cszoltan on Mar 27, 2018 15:20:45 GMT
I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already. I hate this mentality so much. Guess what a new game whether good or bad does absolutely fucking nothing to the MET. If it's bad you can ignore it, if it's good then why whine? Being dead is the most damage that can be done to an IP...
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Party like it's 2023!
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kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 27, 2018 15:35:16 GMT
I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already. I hate this mentality so much. Guess what a new game whether good or bad does absolutely fucking nothing to the MET. If it's bad you can ignore it, if it's good then why whine? Being dead is the most damage that can be done to an IP... I'm certainly not fine with it being dead. There's hardly any scifi RPG games out there as it is. One less is not a positive in any sense.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 27, 2018 15:54:37 GMT
I'm fine with the ME series being dead. I don't think Bioware is capable of creating something that is on par with the MET and I have seen enough damage done to the IP already. I hate this mentality so much. Guess what a new game whether good or bad does absolutely fucking nothing to the MET. If it's bad you can ignore it, if it's good then why whine? Being dead is the most damage that can be done to an IP... I agree, I wish people instead of wishing death on something they would just move on for BioWare just isn't for them. I don't go to the Telltale games talking about how shitty the experience is playing their games and how they stop making games since I don't enjoy them. Heck CDPR took a step backwards from The Witcher 2 with The Witcher 3 and I don't go to their forums with a laundry list of things they need to to do improve their direction to make Cyberpunk a game I would be interested in.
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