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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 12, 2018 18:50:09 GMT
I personally did not like Shepard. Shepard always seemed... flat as a character. I've said it before, but I started played ME for the romance with Kaidan. To me, that was something new in this type of game. Hard to explain, but I don't fit the stereotypes so really loved it when I saw people more in line with me. Then I started to enjoy the game on its own terms but had already come to enjoy Shepard. He worked for me (never played much of FemShep, but people seem to like her). That said, I enjoyed the happy-go-lucky Ryder. It worked for me because he was unprepared for the role as Pathfinder - expecting Alex to be the leader while he was more support crew. Then he had to grow into the role. He was not a seasoned warrior like Shepard. Not an N7 like Shepard or Alec. He was barely more than a kid and a lot of people going into the game didn't get that - still don't get that. He'd have been great had the golden worlds been as expected - though, in reality, if the worlds were as expected you'd have to assume life would have arisen there on its own or at least have been colonized. I could go on about how I never liked Shepherd, but I'll just say this: it always bugged me how Shepard could not walk out of the Council Chamber during the argument about going after Saren. Like there was no option to just say "F this, if you ass hats won't do anything then I'll do it myself! Oh and FYI, go shove your Spectre status right up your collective arses!" As for Ryder well... I have said plenty about him/her in other threads.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 12, 2018 18:52:59 GMT
I could go on about how I never liked Shepherd, but I'll just say this: it always bugged me how Shepard could not walk out of the Council Chamber during the argument about going after Saren. Like there was no option to just say "F this, if you ass hats won't do anything then I'll do it myself! Oh and FYI, go shove your Spectre status right up your collective arses!" Yes, it is funny considering you could have hung up on the Council any number of times when giving reports to them from the SR1. However, I think Shepard's logic was sound. Even if the Council didn't offer any real help at the time it was best not to burn bridges. Shepard clearly didn't intend to remain with Cerberus so would need a place to return to once the SM was over.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 12, 2018 19:00:44 GMT
I could go on about how I never liked Shepherd, but I'll just say this: it always bugged me how Shepard could not walk out of the Council Chamber during the argument about going after Saren. Like there was no option to just say "F this, if you ass hats won't do anything then I'll do it myself! Oh and FYI, go shove your Spectre status right up your collective arses!" Yes, it is funny considering you could have hung up on the Council any number of times when giving reports to them from the SR1. However, I think Shepard's logic was sound. Even if the Council didn't offer any real help at the time it was best not to burn bridges. Shepard clearly didn't intend to remain with Cerberus so would need a place to return to once the SM was over. That's funny because I ALWAYS tell them to shove it in ME2. Not because I wanted to be with Cerberus, but because I always wanted to have the option to refuse that Spectre status. I never saw a need for it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 19:28:37 GMT
good video. It all boils down to the writing. And characters' appearances. Fuck ugly humans with deformed heads and jawlines and asari clones were a big problem with immersion. I really wanted to see MrBTongue make a video on MEA but it seems he's too busy to make videos as much as year prior.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 12, 2018 20:42:24 GMT
So I gave the vid what I would consider a fair shake, but had to turn it off after 35 minutes. The OT was pretty awesome, which is why I probably put up with the vid that long. Anyways, he thinks he is saying something new by focusing on the story, and he loves the sound of his own voice. It feels like he is intentionally drawing out his explanation to lengthen the video.
Anyway, I am posting because I actually did experience something new. I am playing the game for the first time in ages and found that you can go to the Kett Base on Habitat 7 before meeting up with the gang. No one attacked me (they were all inside the shields busy on something else and Liam kept say "we have to go we are not equipped for this!!!" in a hushed tone. I eventually found a new tunnel that leads to the place where Alec drops some bodies later on. Anyways, was a nice easter egg for me.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 12, 2018 21:08:22 GMT
Yes, it is funny considering you could have hung up on the Council any number of times when giving reports to them from the SR1. However, I think Shepard's logic was sound. Even if the Council didn't offer any real help at the time it was best not to burn bridges. Shepard clearly didn't intend to remain with Cerberus so would need a place to return to once the SM was over. That's funny because I ALWAYS tell them to shove it in ME2. Not because I wanted to be with Cerberus, but because I always wanted to have the option to refuse that Spectre status. I never saw a need for it. True, and you get it back again in ME3 regardless of your decision in ME2.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 12, 2018 21:27:31 GMT
I've said it before, but I started played ME for the romance with Kaidan. To me, that was something new in this type of game. Hard to explain, but I don't fit the stereotypes so really loved it when I saw people more in line with me. Then I started to enjoy the game on its own terms but had already come to enjoy Shepard. He worked for me (never played much of FemShep, but people seem to like her). That said, I enjoyed the happy-go-lucky Ryder. It worked for me because he was unprepared for the role as Pathfinder - expecting Alex to be the leader while he was more support crew. Then he had to grow into the role. He was not a seasoned warrior like Shepard. Not an N7 like Shepard or Alec. He was barely more than a kid and a lot of people going into the game didn't get that - still don't get that. He'd have been great had the golden worlds been as expected - though, in reality, if the worlds were as expected you'd have to assume life would have arisen there on its own or at least have been colonized. I could go on about how I never liked Shepherd, but I'll just say this: it always bugged me how Shepard could not walk out of the Council Chamber during the argument about going after Saren. Like there was no option to just say "F this, if you ass hats won't do anything then I'll do it myself! Oh and FYI, go shove your Spectre status right up your collective arses!" As for Ryder well... I have said plenty about him/her in other threads. You were the first human Spectre though. Anderson and probably a lot of other people went through a lot to make that happen. He tells you before Eden Prime how big it is for Humanity. Unless I was playing an extreme humans first, we don't need these aliens Shepard I wouldn't have taken that option even if it was there. It would take more than I'm mad at the council at that moment to do it. You'd be ruining Humanity's image with all the council races.
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Post by SofNascimento on Apr 12, 2018 21:58:10 GMT
I still cannot understand how Andromeda was ever allowed to happen the way it did.
Such a massive disaster. It takes an unhuman level of effort to kill one of the biggest franchises of the previous gen. But Andromeda did it.
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 12, 2018 22:33:29 GMT
I still cannot understand how Andromeda was ever allowed to happen the way it did. Such a massive disaster. It takes an unhuman level of effort to kill one of the biggest franchises of the previous gen. But Andromeda did it. At that point, they had to get the game out, no matter how good or bad the "final" state was. I mean, they just couldn't go, "you know what, give us another 2 years" the game was late as it was, just more delays wouldn't had helped at all imo. If things were done right from the get go, skilled people working on the game, a good writer, less people leaving mid-project. An actual focus on what they were trying to accomplish instead of changing things mid development because some shit or another just outright wouldn't work. Then, we could've had a very good game, very well received by most people and not 50/50 at best. I don't think it killed anything though, just fucked up pretty badly as a game (at least in my opinion, a lot of people here thinks the game was just fine). Whoever is in charge of the next title will be in for a hell of a job, trying to win the fan's affection again after ME3 and MEA will require some serious writing skills. It's not a surprise they've put the franchise on hold for now, they have no clue how to continue, or they'd rather fully focus on Anthem for now because they need it to succeed.
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Post by projectpatdc on Apr 13, 2018 1:42:01 GMT
Was the video a bunch of "Not My Mass Effect" supported by long, opinionated monologues about the trilogy being better? Some opinion, but generally focuses on where MEA went wrong in its writing and lack of consequences to choices...comparing and contrasting with the original trilogy. He presents reasonable arguments based on the fundamentals of good storytelling elements. He didn't strike me as someone with a specific agenda to arbitrarily "hate" on MEA. He does go off on a tangent for the last 10 minutes presenting on how he would have told the story different...which came across as bad fan-fiction (lol, as if there was such thing as good...) It's respectable that he put so much time and energy into a good bit of detail.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 8:00:56 GMT
I could go on about how I never liked Shepherd, but I'll just say this: it always bugged me how Shepard could not walk out of the Council Chamber during the argument about going after Saren. Like there was no option to just say "F this, if you ass hats won't do anything then I'll do it myself! Oh and FYI, go shove your Spectre status right up your collective arses!" As for Ryder well... I have said plenty about him/her in other threads. You were the first human Spectre though. Anderson and probably a lot of other people went through a lot to make that happen. He tells you before Eden Prime how big it is for Humanity. Unless I was playing an extreme humans first, we don't need these aliens Shepard I wouldn't have taken that option even if it was there. It would take more than I'm mad at the council at that moment to do it. You'd be ruining Humanity's image with all the council races. So? Shepard is a spec ops soldier, he/she does not need some fancy title to hunt down Saren. And ruining Humanity's image to the Council races? Please, the Council ruined its own image by committing war crimes and allowing slavery. So yeah, F the Council! EDIT: Oh I almost forgot, they also left the Quarians to their fate (shows how the Council treats it's allies). Oh and they made humans sign a treaty to force them to have less dreadnoughts then the Turians just because. So again, F the Council!! EDIT 2: As for Anderson and the other people who pushed for Shepherd to be chosen to be a Spectre, F them, they are just Council 'Yes Men' who would bend over backwards to please the Council.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 8:02:00 GMT
That's funny because I ALWAYS tell them to shove it in ME2. Not because I wanted to be with Cerberus, but because I always wanted to have the option to refuse that Spectre status. I never saw a need for it. True, and you get it back again in ME3 regardless of your decision in ME2. Tell me about it... 😒
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Post by helios969 on Apr 13, 2018 10:08:19 GMT
Some opinion, but generally focuses on where MEA went wrong in its writing and lack of consequences to choices...comparing and contrasting with the original trilogy. He presents reasonable arguments based on the fundamentals of good storytelling elements. He didn't strike me as someone with a specific agenda to arbitrarily "hate" on MEA. He does go off on a tangent for the last 10 minutes presenting on how he would have told the story different...which came across as bad fan-fiction (lol, as if there was such thing as good...) It's respectable that he put so much time and energy into a good bit of detail. I agree...it's a decent vid...would have been better without the extracurricular stuff though. But it's far preferable to most of the "click-bait" garbage out there.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 13, 2018 11:42:08 GMT
I have to say I have to agree that the story. dialogue and characters were the biggest issue for me. I was never bothered by the bugs and crap animations as most people or critics (it always seemed worse on Youtube). I am still annoyed by the Asari and Salarian clones, but the aforementioned story elements are still my biggest issue. And those have nothing to do with the pressures of meeting a release date.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 13, 2018 14:08:00 GMT
You were the first human Spectre though. Anderson and probably a lot of other people went through a lot to make that happen. He tells you before Eden Prime how big it is for Humanity. Unless I was playing an extreme humans first, we don't need these aliens Shepard I wouldn't have taken that option even if it was there. It would take more than I'm mad at the council at that moment to do it. You'd be ruining Humanity's image with all the council races. So? Shepard is a spec ops soldier, he/she does not need some fancy title to hunt down Saren. And ruining Humanity's image to the Council races? Please, the Council ruined its own image by committing war crimes and allowing slavery. So yeah, F the Council! EDIT: Oh I almost forgot, they also left the Quarians to their fate (shows how the Council treats it's allies). Oh and they made humans sign a treaty to force them to have less dreadnoughts then the Turians just because. So again, F the Council!! EDIT 2: As for Anderson and the other people who pushed for Shepherd to be chosen to be a Spectre, F them, they are just Council 'Yes Men' who would bend over backwards to please the Council. I'm not stating my opinion on the council lol. I'm saying from the a story perspective, they built this up during the early story and Shepard, Anderson, Adina, etc all went through with this as an honor, and a way increasing Humanity's role presence in the new society. So from a story perspective it wouldn't make sense for the game to allow you turn right around, right after accepting it and throw it back in their face.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 14:48:18 GMT
So? Shepard is a spec ops soldier, he/she does not need some fancy title to hunt down Saren. And ruining Humanity's image to the Council races? Please, the Council ruined its own image by committing war crimes and allowing slavery. So yeah, F the Council! EDIT: Oh I almost forgot, they also left the Quarians to their fate (shows how the Council treats it's allies). Oh and they made humans sign a treaty to force them to have less dreadnoughts then the Turians just because. So again, F the Council!! EDIT 2: As for Anderson and the other people who pushed for Shepherd to be chosen to be a Spectre, F them, they are just Council 'Yes Men' who would bend over backwards to please the Council. I'm not stating my opinion on the council lol. I'm saying from the a story perspective, they built this up during the early story and Shepard, Anderson, Adina, etc all went through with this as an honor, and a way increasing Humanity's role presence in the new society. So from a story perspective it wouldn't make sense for the game to allow you turn right around, right after accepting it and throw it back in their face. There's an option to say that Shepard does not want to be a Spectre before Eden Prime.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 13, 2018 14:58:24 GMT
I'm not stating my opinion on the council lol. I'm saying from the a story perspective, they built this up during the early story and Shepard, Anderson, Adina, etc all went through with this as an honor, and a way increasing Humanity's role presence in the new society. So from a story perspective it wouldn't make sense for the game to allow you turn right around, right after accepting it and throw it back in their face. There's an option to say that Shepard does not want to be a Spectre before Eden Prime. You've taken it at the point we're talking about, and recently. It would make no sense to for the game to act like so much has changed in that little bit of time to allow you to just throw it back. ME2 maybe. "After all I've done for you, you want to question my loyalty now." But at that point in ME:1, I really can't see it.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 16:00:33 GMT
There's an option to say that Shepard does not want to be a Spectre before Eden Prime. You've taken it at the point we're talking about, and recently. It would make no sense to for the game to act like so much has changed in that little bit of time to allow you to just throw it back. ME2 maybe. "After all I've done for you, you want to question my loyalty now." But at that point in ME:1, I really can't see it. Why not? The Council has shown that they don't give two shits about human lives lost at Eden Prime. So why would a human want join their group of secret agent terrorists? And it would have been nice to have a option to refuse. Many players may not have taken it but it would have been nice for those who were sick of the Councils BS.
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Post by cypherj on Apr 13, 2018 16:25:57 GMT
You've taken it at the point we're talking about, and recently. It would make no sense to for the game to act like so much has changed in that little bit of time to allow you to just throw it back. ME2 maybe. "After all I've done for you, you want to question my loyalty now." But at that point in ME:1, I really can't see it. Why not? The Council has shown that they don't give two shits about human lives lost at Eden Prime. So why would a human want join their group of secret agent terrorists? And it would have been nice to have a option to refuse. Many players may not have taken it but it would have been nice for those who were sick of the Councils BS. This is my point. You're responding as if I'm giving my personal opinion on the council or being a Spectre. I'm talking about how this was all portrayed in the game's story. It wouldn't have made sense at that point.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 13, 2018 20:08:54 GMT
If Shepard refuses Soectre induction in ME1, doesn't the game end right there with somebody else getting the Saren assignment ?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 20:15:34 GMT
If Shepard refuses Soectre induction in ME1, doesn't the game end right there with somebody else getting the Saren assignment ? No because Saren attacked an Alliance colony. So most likely Shepard would still be given a order by the Alliance to capture or kill Saren. EDIT: But the Alliance may be a bit pissed that Shepard did not kiss the Council's ass and become their bitch
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 13, 2018 20:20:24 GMT
Why not? The Council has shown that they don't give two shits about human lives lost at Eden Prime. So why would a human want join their group of secret agent terrorists? And it would have been nice to have a option to refuse. Many players may not have taken it but it would have been nice for those who were sick of the Councils BS. This is my point. You're responding as if I'm giving my personal opinion on the council or being a Spectre. I'm talking about how this was all portrayed in the game's story. It wouldn't have made sense at that point. ME's story never made sense. Like ignoring an eyewitness but yet believing a recording that could have been easily faked.
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Post by aglomeracja on Apr 14, 2018 11:19:56 GMT
If Shepard refuses Soectre induction in ME1, doesn't the game end right there with somebody else getting the Saren assignment ? No because Saren attacked an Alliance colony. So most likely Shepard would still be given a order by the Alliance to capture or kill Saren. EDIT: But the Alliance may be a bit pissed that Shepard did not kiss the Council's ass and become their bitch Shepard refuses to become a Specter -> Anderson keeps the Normandy, Shepard gets demoted, game ends. Non-Specter Shepard going after Saren scenario is unlikely since it would be an act of aggression against the council (by extension- the rest of the galaxy), which is the last thing humanity would want right after First Contact War. Also, it's a game about Shepard: the first human Specter. You can't refuse to become a Jedi in KOTOR, you can't stop being a witcher in The Witcher etc.
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Post by gplayer on Apr 14, 2018 13:49:00 GMT
Plaything this game again and looking at the story after all this time - I still hate the dialog and still do my best to select the responses that make me cringe the least ("thats what we are here for...Resilience is more than just a name its our responsibility" after which I have to suppress throwing up).
But the overall story reminds me of what happens when writers think they writing a multi-part series. I hope if ME ever gets another chance they understand they don't have a guaranteed opportunity to tell a story over multiple installments.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Apr 14, 2018 15:07:15 GMT
Accurate video. MEA's writing is just trash, looks like a D-tier game. Perfect analysis. Game's bad, it is what it is.
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