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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 12:41:11 GMT
David Crooks started whining about the unfair review given to his Need for Speed game before making up some shit to try and justify his irrational hatred. Reveling in someone's death because of poor reviews. What a lovely guy he must be. Or maybe they're reveling the death of a piece of human garbage who just happened to be a game critic. He wasn't. Let me address common criticisms: A) He wasn't a gamergater, B ) He told his fans to back off when they went after people. Any other criticisms you might have?
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 11, 2018 12:44:03 GMT
Or maybe they're reveling the death of a piece of human garbage who just happened to be a game critic. He wasn't. Let me address common criticisms: A) He wasn't a gamergater, B ) He told his fans to back off when they went after people. Any other criticisms you might have? He was a gamergater link He never denied he was a gamergater, you got to stop lieing. Also this thread isn't about TotalBiscuit til you made it about TotalBiscuit.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 12:47:32 GMT
He wasn't. Let me address common criticisms: A) He wasn't a gamergater, B ) He told his fans to back off when they went after people. Any other criticisms you might have? He was a gamergater link He never denied he was a gamergater, you got to stop lieing. Also this thread isn't about TotalBiscuit til you made it about TotalBiscuit. Pro-Gamergate because Gamergate started off about journalistic ethics. He derided the abuse Anita and Zoe copped from fans. Slandering a man because you don't like him is a shitty thing to do.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 11, 2018 12:56:01 GMT
Or maybe they're reveling the death of a piece of human garbage who just happened to be a game critic. He wasn't. Let me address common criticisms: A) He wasn't a gamergater, B ) He told his fans to back off when they went after people. Any other criticisms you might have? He was a gamergater.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 12:58:58 GMT
He wasn't. Let me address common criticisms: A) He wasn't a gamergater, B ) He told his fans to back off when they went after people. Any other criticisms you might have? He was a gamergater. He wasn't. He believed Gamergate wasn't a movement you could be a part of, but a channel where people with a common goal congregated. Which is why when people ask whether he's a gamergater he would say he "believed in the tenets of Gamergate" or was "pro gamergate" and then would talk about ethics in gaming journalism, but distanced himself from the attacks some people who did believe it was a movement went on. David Crooks though went on a rampage about he was abusive and sent mobs out. He did neither of those things. They were pieces of slander to try and justify an irrational hatred ... because David is a giant coward.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 11, 2018 13:31:33 GMT
He wasn't. He believed Gamergate wasn't a movement you could be a part of, but a channel where people with a common goal congregated. Which is why when people ask whether he's a gamergater he would say he "believed in the tenets of Gamergate" or was "pro gamergate" and then would talk about ethics in gaming journalism, but distanced himself from the attacks some people who did believe it was a movement went on. David Crooks though went on a rampage about he was abusive and sent mobs out. He did neither of those things. They were pieces of slander to try and justify an irrational hatred ... because David is a giant coward. He was a gamergater.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 13:32:10 GMT
He wasn't. He believed Gamergate wasn't a movement you could be a part of, but a channel where people with a common goal congregated. Which is why when people ask whether he's a gamergater he would say he "believed in the tenets of Gamergate" or was "pro gamergate" and then would talk about ethics in gaming journalism, but distanced himself from the attacks some people who did believe it was a movement went on. David Crooks though went on a rampage about he was abusive and sent mobs out. He did neither of those things. They were pieces of slander to try and justify an irrational hatred ... because David is a giant coward. He was a gamergater. He wasn't.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Jun 11, 2018 13:40:13 GMT
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Post by mugwump on Jun 11, 2018 13:40:20 GMT
He wasn't. He believed Gamergate wasn't a movement you could be a part of, but a channel where people with a common goal congregated. Which is why when people ask whether he's a gamergater he would say he "believed in the tenets of Gamergate" or was "pro gamergate" and then would talk about ethics in gaming journalism, but distanced himself from the attacks some people who did believe it was a movement went on. David Crooks though went on a rampage about he was abusive and sent mobs out. He did neither of those things. They were pieces of slander to try and justify an irrational hatred ... because David is a giant coward. He was a gamergater. What does that even mean?
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 13:42:25 GMT
He wasn't. What does that even mean? It's a made up term used by people with an agenda so they can lump together people who had legitimate issues with gaming journalism and those who made death threats against women in the gaming industry. Once that's achieved it's easy to dismiss and abuse anybody who had a problem with gaming journalism. How? Issues with gaming journalism -> same tenets as gamergate -> pro-gamergater -> some gamergaters abused women -> obviously means all gamergaters are against women -> person in question is a despicable individual.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 13:46:52 GMT
He was a gamergater link He never denied he was a gamergater, you got to stop lieing. Also this thread isn't about TotalBiscuit til you made it about TotalBiscuit. Pro-Gamergate because Gamergate started off about journalistic ethics. He derided the abuse Anita and Zoe copped from fans. Slandering a man because you don't like him is a shitty thing to do. yeah that's not true at all regarding its origins. I thought it did have to do with pro-journalism ethics as well at first but looking into it, researching the leadership and even supporting it, but it was mostly conspiratorial nutjobs co-oped by a far-right movement as a form of identity politics. A lot of it stemming from the Five Guy stuff and what is essentially a "he said she said" situation which ultimately offered no concrete proof of anything. Schmucks like Yiannopoulos twisting it to his own ends basically. Folks still in GamerGate are no better than the people they rail against, Bain tried to steer it to the journalistic ethics but this is one of those situations where he should have jumped ship on it much sooner. It did ruin his reputation a bit.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 13:54:11 GMT
I thought it did have to do with pro-journalism ethics as well at first but looking into it, researching the leadership and even supporting it, but it was mostly conspiratorial nutjobs co-oped by a far-right movement as a form of identity politics. It started off with Zoe Quinn and most of that was conspiracy stuff. However Nathan Grayson did donate money to the game, was thanked in the credits, they were good friends, went on road trips, and he covered her work very nicely. Gamers are sick of this sort of stuff, they're sick of magazines hosting Skyrim ads later covering the game, and they're sick of journalists doing articles about their friends.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 13:59:37 GMT
I thought it did have to do with pro-journalism ethics as well at first but looking into it, researching the leadership and even supporting it, but it was mostly conspiratorial nutjobs co-oped by a far-right movement as a form of identity politics. It started off with Zoe Quinn and most of that was conspiracy stuff. However Nathan Grayson did donate money to the game, was thanked in the credits, they were good friends, went on road trips, and he covered her work very nicely. Gamers are sick of this sort of stuff, they're sick of magazines hosting Skyrim ads later covering the game, and they're sick of journalists doing articles about their friends. And i'm sick of gamers who don't know what they are talking about, and internet celebrities with clickbait. What's your point? It doesn't change the facts of things that happened and what that movement really was in the end. Simple as that. You want better ethics, start with yourself and support journalists who work their ass off to give you information.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 14:01:36 GMT
It started off with Zoe Quinn and most of that was conspiracy stuff. However Nathan Grayson did donate money to the game, was thanked in the credits, they were good friends, went on road trips, and he covered her work very nicely. Gamers are sick of this sort of stuff, they're sick of magazines hosting Skyrim ads later covering the game, and they're sick of journalists doing articles about their friends. And i'm sick of gamers who don't know what they are talking about, and internet celebrities with clickbait. What's your point? It doesn't change the facts of things that happened and what that movement really was in the end. Simple as that. My point is there is a large section within gamergate with a legitimate beef with gaming journalism. And we're done with being dismissed by the gaming media. We don't need you, at all.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 14:04:41 GMT
And i'm sick of gamers who don't know what they are talking about, and internet celebrities with clickbait. What's your point? It doesn't change the facts of things that happened and what that movement really was in the end. Simple as that. My point is there is a large section within gamergate with a legitimate beef with gaming journalism. And we're done with being dismissed by the gaming media. We don't need you, at all. I guess focusing on the worst of us is better? Bain was actually good, but when he's the exception to the rule you know something is wrong with enthusiast media you know.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 14:07:13 GMT
My point is there is a large section within gamergate with a legitimate beef with gaming journalism. And we're done with being dismissed by the gaming media. We don't need you, at all. I guess focusing on the worst of us is better? Bain was actually good, but when he's the exception to the rule you know something is wrong with enthusiast media you know. The gaming media is supposed to be looking out for consumers. You're supposed to have us at heart when you write those articles. Most of what I'm seeing is siding with devs and "gaming community is toxic". The gaming community needs media that comes from them that addresses their needs and desires. Devs can unionise and look out for themselves against the "evil, toxic public".
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 14:17:13 GMT
I guess focusing on the worst of us is better? Bain was actually good, but when he's the exception to the rule you know something is wrong with enthusiast media you know. The gaming media is supposed to be looking out for consumers. You're supposed to have us at heart when you write those articles. Most of what I'm seeing is siding with devs and "gaming community is toxic". The gaming community needs media that comes from them that addresses their needs and desires. Devs can unionise and look out for themselves against the "evil, toxic public". All of our writing is looking out for consumers, what is disheartening is this sort of rage against the machine they barely understand to justify hurt feelings or unwarranted anger. I was in that position you are in once, but when you see how the sausage is made you learn how ignorant you really are to the real world of things. It's easy to be enthusiastic, its much more difficult to be professional. A lot of critics struggle with the latter, the better ones rise above it but get no respect de-facto due to their position though. But here is the thing you need to understand: my job is not to cater to what you need ultimately. Your needs do not matter when being a critic, that is where we get tribalist bullshit like Fox News and MSNBC catering to their base. That is anathema to good journalism, as looking out for consumers sometimes means calling them out for being foolish. The thing we tend to lack is self-reflection and owning up to that foolishness. My job is to give you what the truth is, even when it hurts.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 14:21:31 GMT
All of our writing is looking out for consumers, what is disheartening is this sort of rage against the machine they barely understand to justify hurt feelings or unwarranted anger. I was in that position you are in once, but when you see how the sausage is made you learn how ignorant you really are to the real world of things. It's easy to be enthusiastic, its much more difficult to be professional. A lot of critics struggle with the latter, the better ones rise above it but get no respect de-facto due to their position though. But here is the thing you need to understand: my job is not to cater to what you need ultimately. Your needs do not matter when being a critic, that is where we get tribalist bullshit like Fox News and MSNBC catering to their base. That is anathema to good journalism, as looking out for consumers sometimes means calling them out for being foolish. The thing we tend to lack is self-reflection and owning up to that foolishness. My job is to give you what the truth is, even when it hurts. Foolishness is subjective. For example, devs need to care less about the opinions of gamers and more about being exploited by their bosses. The kind of public angst against the opinions on the internet, but the quiet secrecy about being worked to the bone is, imo, very foolish. And you need to understand that some people know more than you think they do. If gamers are turning away from gaming journalism en masse, then there's a problem with gaming journalism. Whether you want to admit it or not.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 11, 2018 14:34:47 GMT
All of our writing is looking out for consumers, what is disheartening is this sort of rage against the machine they barely understand to justify hurt feelings or unwarranted anger. I was in that position you are in once, but when you see how the sausage is made you learn how ignorant you really are to the real world of things. It's easy to be enthusiastic, its much more difficult to be professional. A lot of critics struggle with the latter, the better ones rise above it but get no respect de-facto due to their position though. But here is the thing you need to understand: my job is not to cater to what you need ultimately. Your needs do not matter when being a critic, that is where we get tribalist bullshit like Fox News and MSNBC catering to their base. That is anathema to good journalism, as looking out for consumers sometimes means calling them out for being foolish. The thing we tend to lack is self-reflection and owning up to that foolishness. My job is to give you what the truth is, even when it hurts. Foolishness is subjective. For example, devs need to care less about the opinions of gamers and more about being exploited by their bosses. The kind of public angst against the opinions on the internet, but the quiet secrecy about being worked to the bone is, imo, very foolish. And you need to understand that some people know more than you think they do. If gamers are turning away from gaming journalism en masse, then there's a problem with gaming journalism. Whether you want to admit it or not. Some things are more foolish than others. Especially when gamers are the reason we are at a stagnation point since the industry to a point tries to cater to less creativity. If we listen to what gamers want, the result is the wild west of tripe on steam, unfiltered and filled with shovelware for example. There is no art or growth in that kind of model, but it's a pure business decision in the end that makes sense on the surface. A decision a lot of people like because of anti censorship, which I'm fine with. The cost of that, however, is we make the plain truth of what gaming is being only a product, and not a medium. Consumer identity to a product should not be the future because that benefits bottom lines and is artificial in its purpose. It's a toy to be sold, not a medium that deserves respect. But that's what gamers seem to want in the end, a toy to be sold. They are working hand in hand with publishers and dev teams and telling them more battle royale or online play, gameplay features and old school graphics. Basically by their buying habits and twitch streams we see what matters more for gamers, and it's depressing because for all the counterculture ideas you push here, you are giving into what the culture heads want. Journalists criticizing the decision are a tad shortsighted in what they focus on, but they are actually right in this being a bad idea in the long run. And that's just a recent example. It should be about fun, art and quality regardless of what game comes out but when companies are giving people what they want and we still complain...
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 14:45:55 GMT
Foolishness is subjective. For example, devs need to care less about the opinions of gamers and more about being exploited by their bosses. The kind of public angst against the opinions on the internet, but the quiet secrecy about being worked to the bone is, imo, very foolish. And you need to understand that some people know more than you think they do. If gamers are turning away from gaming journalism en masse, then there's a problem with gaming journalism. Whether you want to admit it or not. Some things are more foolish than others. Especially when gamers are the reason we are at a stagbation poibt since the industry to a point tries to cater to less creativity. If we listen to what gamers want, the result is the wild west of tripe on steam, unfiltered and filled with shovelware for example. There is no art or growth in that kind of model, but it's a pure business decision in the end. A decision a lot of people like because of anti censorship, which I'm fine with. The cost of that, however, is we make the plain truth of what gaming is being only a product, and not a medium. Consumer identity to a product should not be the future because that benefits bottom lines and is artificial in its purpose. It's a toy to be sold, not a medium that deserves respect. But that's what gamers want in the end, a toy to be sold. They are working hand in hand with punlishers and dev teams and telling them more battle royale or online play, gameplay features and old school graphics. Basically by their buying habits and twitch streams we see what matters more for gamers, and it's depressing because for all the counter culture ideas you push here, you are giving into what the culture wants. Journalists criticizing the decision are a tad shortsighted in what they focus on, but they are actually right in this being a bad ideal in the long run. And that's just a recent example. It should be about fun, art and quality regardless of what game comes out but when companies are giving people what they want and we still complain... Stagnation is only evident in the AAA industry as big publishers try to appeal to the largest possible audience size, which means an increase in graphics quality, more money, and less risks being taken. 10 years ago some gamers joked that they wished graphics would hit an upper limit so studios would focus more on actual gameplay. Large publishers embrace a model where they aim for their game to be sold to 15 million people, so naturally that's 15 million different opinions they need to listen to. The model is shite, and is not conducive to art or growth. It tends to lead to by-the-numbers safe stories that appeal to a large group while being inoffensive to a large group. Steam is filled with Wild West tripe because indie developers are currently engaged in a rush to the bottom. Gamers deride the wild west shovelware on Steam, and so do I.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 14:57:27 GMT
Some things are more foolish than others. Especially when gamers are the reason we are at a stagnation point since the industry to a point tries to cater to less creativity. Want creativity? Check out Her Story on Steam. Check out Va-11 Hall-A on Steam. Games that are received positively by gamers and are creative and bold because they don't need to appease millions and millions of people, just a few thousands. It's not gamers behind stagnation, it's the AAA business model. And this is precisely what I mean by the gaming community being done with the gaming media. When all you guys do is blame us, time for us to move on.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 11, 2018 15:02:03 GMT
Some things are more foolish than others. Especially when gamers are the reason we are at a stagnation point since the industry to a point tries to cater to less creativity. Want creativity? Check out Her Story on Steam. Check out Va-11 Hall-A on Steam. Games that are received positively by gamers and are creative and bold because they don't need to appease millions and millions of people, just a few thousands. It's not gamers behind stagnation, it's the AAA business model. And this is precisely what I mean by the gaming community being done with the gaming media. When all you guys do is blame us, time for us to move on. The Indie gaming industry is just as bad as the AAA industry (worse actually) in that the vast majority of games do not make their money back.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 15:05:11 GMT
Want creativity? Check out Her Story on Steam. Check out Va-11 Hall-A on Steam. Games that are received positively by gamers and are creative and bold because they don't need to appease millions and millions of people, just a few thousands. It's not gamers behind stagnation, it's the AAA business model. And this is precisely what I mean by the gaming community being done with the gaming media. When all you guys do is blame us, time for us to move on. The Indie gaming industry is just as bad as the AAA industry (worse actually) in that the vast majority of games do not make their money back. The Indie Bubble is bursting, and they're rushing to the bottom making cheaper and cheaper games until ... That being said the brilliant thing about indie games is they're made with a budget of a few thousand. Sure most don't make their money back but the risks are lower which enables more risk to be taken. And it's here you'll find a lot of the innovative stuff ... along with a lot of rubbish
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 11, 2018 15:07:27 GMT
The Indie gaming industry is just as bad as the AAA industry (worse actually) in that the vast majority of games do not make their money back. The Indie Bubble is bursting, and they're rushing to the bottom making cheaper and cheaper games until ... That being said the brilliant thing about indie games is they're made with a budget of a few thousand. Sure most don't make their money back but the risks are lower which enables more risk to be taken. And it's here you'll find a lot of the innovative stuff ... along with a lot of rubbish Indie games are not made with a budget of a few thousand, that wouldn't pay for one devs salary for a month, what the heck are you on about? Are you just talking about people making games for free? That's not an industry, that's a hobby.
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Post by river82 on Jun 11, 2018 15:10:32 GMT
The Indie Bubble is bursting, and they're rushing to the bottom making cheaper and cheaper games until ... That being said the brilliant thing about indie games is they're made with a budget of a few thousand. Sure most don't make their money back but the risks are lower which enables more risk to be taken. And it's here you'll find a lot of the innovative stuff ... along with a lot of rubbish Indie games are not made with a budget of a few thousand, that wouldn't pay for one devs salary for a month, what the heck are you on about? Are you just talking about people making games for free? That's not an industry, that's a hobby. Spiderweb Games have been making successful Indie games for about 20 years. Total employees, himself and his wife. A couple of other game studios had a budget of 10 to 20 grand. Some Indies can get pretty expensive for sure, though.
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