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Post by mugwump on May 29, 2018 20:08:37 GMT
Well, here's hoping Anthem gets a fair shake.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 29, 2018 20:09:15 GMT
Aye, Casey did the smart thing by disassociating Bioware from those obnoxious celebratory tweets for sure. Trouble is, Crooks' efforts all but guarantee that Biowares next offering will be metabombed to hell. If Anthem does get metabombed to hell, I don't think it will because of some jackass on the development team especially given how BioWare is now putting its foot down on developer comments.
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. You're absolutely right. The rest is just noise. Disruptive as it is, the noise will never compare to the lack of attention or quality control given to the product if it bombs. The noise only fuels to the negative perception and when it's loud, the product won't be able to sell itself. As it is now for me, the game's polish is everything to me. If it's not polished (and I don't expect it to be, then why pre-order?) at launch, then every YouTuber on the planet will point to certain individuals as the cause for whatever reason. It's going to happen. History is on my side. The last time history was on my side, I was completely shut down by BioWare. N7 2017 was a sad, sad day.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 29, 2018 20:15:33 GMT
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. The genuine issues with MEA were quickly picked up by people more than ready to be merciless with them. Each glitch or goofy walk bug is clickbait gold when giving it to EA is a sport. The hate may not have been fair, but it exploited actual faults. Most companies like to go into a launch window with some goodwill, any EA game has to deal with a blistering chill wind from the off. The only remedy is a genuinely interesting game that is polished to perfection. That won't stop a lot of the hate or the metabombing, but it may render it 'lame' if it's patently un-deserved and people can then vote with their feet (wallets).
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Post by linksocarina on May 29, 2018 20:59:27 GMT
Aye, Casey did the smart thing by disassociating Bioware from those obnoxious celebratory tweets for sure. Trouble is, Crooks' efforts all but guarantee that Biowares next offering will be metabombed to hell. If Anthem does get metabombed to hell, I don't think it will because of some jackass on the development team especially given how BioWare is now putting its foot down on developer comments.
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them.
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Post by rras1994 on May 29, 2018 21:11:34 GMT
If Anthem does get metabombed to hell, I don't think it will because of some jackass on the development team especially given how BioWare is now putting its foot down on developer comments.
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them. It's "boycott" in the loosest definition of the term. Most of the people were never going to buy it anyway. I think that's always important to remember.
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Post by General Mahad on May 29, 2018 21:12:47 GMT
If Anthem does get metabombed to hell, I don't think it will because of some jackass on the development team especially given how BioWare is now putting its foot down on developer comments.
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them. They are free to do that, that is their decision.
BioWare will have to attract more customers to replace the boycotting fans which is going to be really REALLY difficult given how infamous Andromeda became.
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Post by Heimdall on May 29, 2018 21:28:48 GMT
I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them. They are free to do that, that is their decision.
BioWare will have to attract more customers to replace the boycotting fans which is going to be really REALLY difficult given how infamous Andromeda became.
I’m skeptical as to how many are really boycotting. There are certainly people less interested in the brand thanks to Andromeda (and accompanying EA baggage), I doubt there are many planning to boycott at this point.
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Post by linksocarina on May 29, 2018 21:45:55 GMT
I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them. They are free to do that, that is their decision.
BioWare will have to attract more customers to replace the boycotting fans which is going to be really REALLY difficult given how infamous Andromeda became.
sure, but the other problem is platform use to encourage it. Im already sick of the clickbait stuff that became the "truth" out of conjecture. Id rather not give that much more fuel to a blazing fire. It will make it hard to replace customers as is due to that, and I am sure BioWare is already on the Pareto Principle at this point.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 29, 2018 22:19:13 GMT
'Boycott' is just today's 'pre-order canceled'. It means nothing unless they can convince another sheep to follow suit.
Assassin's Creed Origins recovered amazingly from the car crash that was Assassin's Creed Unity only 3 years earlier, and whilst not exactly EA, Ubisoft isn't exactly 'loved'.
There will be plenty of 'Fuck EA' alongside any Anthem video, the key is whether they are lost among others talking about interesting things.
Even if something positive is said, many disbelieve it anyway because 'it's EA'.
Battlefield V is the next boxer in the ring, if that sounds good, looks good and actually is good, that will buy Anthem a little slack (but not much).
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Post by linksocarina on May 29, 2018 23:02:19 GMT
'Boycott' is just today's 'pre-order canceled'. It means nothing unless they can convince another sheep to follow suit. Assassin's Creed Origins recovered amazingly from the car crash that was Assassin's Creed Unity only 3 years earlier, and whilst not exactly EA, Ubisoft isn't exactly 'loved'. There will be plenty of 'Fuck EA' alongside any Anthem video, the key is whether they are lost among others talking about interesting things. Even if something positive is said, many disbelieve it anyway because 'it's EA'. Battlefield V is the next boxer in the ring, if that sounds good, looks good and actually is good, that will buy Anthem a little slack (but not much). Considering the page-long debate me and General Mahad had in the Battlefield thread, folks are looking for a quick TKO if thats any indication.
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Post by rras1994 on May 29, 2018 23:15:02 GMT
'Boycott' is just today's 'pre-order canceled'. It means nothing unless they can convince another sheep to follow suit. Assassin's Creed Origins recovered amazingly from the car crash that was Assassin's Creed Unity only 3 years earlier, and whilst not exactly EA, Ubisoft isn't exactly 'loved'. There will be plenty of 'Fuck EA' alongside any Anthem video, the key is whether they are lost among others talking about interesting things. Even if something positive is said, many disbelieve it anyway because 'it's EA'. Battlefield V is the next boxer in the ring, if that sounds good, looks good and actually is good, that will buy Anthem a little slack (but not much). Considering the page-long debate me and General Mahad had in the Battlefield thread, folks are looking for a quick TKO if thats any indication. Really? Most places I've seen are really interested in what EA/DICE have done with Battlefield V, and it's pretty clear the majority of people having a go at the trailer have a problem with women being there - ironically I've seen this make people more interested in the game. And the people who had hands on experience are saying it's a really good game too. Interesting enough for all the historical inacuracy talk it actually got me to learn more stuff about WW2, like all those cosmetic options in the trailer are based off real things! Plus alot of people spread interesting stories about women in WW2 through twitter. I am honestly considering trying this game and I've never thought of trying FPS war game before.
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Post by ashaantha on May 29, 2018 23:15:32 GMT
Honestly I think gaming "news" has switched almost instantly from Casey's (and why he had his comment) stuff to Pubg suing another company again, as I said in my earlier post it's a temporary temper tantrum like thing: the hotheads are done, emotions gone, moved onto the next thing of the week unless another dev crawls out to do a similar post ... unlikely, I feel it'll be quiet now since.. temporary emotional tantrum / ranting time is over, they can shift their outburst to something new. I'm barely seeing Battlefield V trailer stuff now too, but that's more likely that I'm in the wrong net areas for that outcry lol.
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Post by rras1994 on May 29, 2018 23:17:19 GMT
Honestly I think gaming "news" has switched almost instantly from Casey's (and why he had his comment) stuff to Pubg suing another company again, as I said in my earlier post it's a temporary temper tantrum like thing: the hotheads are done, emotions gone, moved onto the next thing of the week unless another dev crawls out to do a similar post ... unlikely, I feel it'll be quiet now since.. temporary emotional tantrum / ranting time is over, they can shift their outburst to something new. I'm barely seeing Battlefield V trailer stuff now too, but that's more likely that I'm in the wrong net areas for that outcry lol. Most of the stuff I've seen have been mocking the people for getting outraged over the trailer, alot of people see it as kind of ridiculous.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 29, 2018 23:23:18 GMT
I am honestly considering trying this game and I've never thought of trying FPS war game before. Me too, PvP doesn't particularly interest me, but the 4 person co-op sounds much more ME3MP and Anthem-like.
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Post by rras1994 on May 29, 2018 23:26:32 GMT
I am honestly considering trying this game and I've never thought of trying FPS war game before. Me too, PvP doesn't particularly interest me, but the 4 person co-op sounds much more ME3MP and Anthem-like. I actually really like the idea of custimising your own character for each class, so you can make a kind of squad. That's sounds pretty cool to me.
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Post by General Mahad on May 30, 2018 3:19:56 GMT
Considering the page-long debate me and General Mahad had in the Battlefield thread, folks are looking for a quick TKO if thats any indication. Really? Most places I've seen are really interested in what EA/DICE have done with Battlefield V, and it's pretty clear the majority of people having a go at the trailer have a problem with women being there - ironically I've seen this make people more interested in the game. And the people who had hands on experience are saying it's a really good game too. Interesting enough for all the historical inacuracy talk it actually got me to learn more stuff about WW2, like all those cosmetic options in the trailer are based off real things! Plus alot of people spread interesting stories about women in WW2 through twitter. I am honestly considering trying this game and I've never thought of trying FPS war game before. If that was true, then why weren't all the BF1 trailers that featured Zara (the playable Bedouin woman resistance fighter) downvoted to hell? Or the trailer for the "In the name of the Tsar" expansion which had women soldiers, a woman narrating it, and had a woman scout on the cover? Saying that people are mad at the BFV trailer soley because women are in it is hogwash.
But I digress.
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Post by river82 on May 30, 2018 5:44:48 GMT
Really? Most places I've seen are really interested in what EA/DICE have done with Battlefield V, and it's pretty clear the majority of people having a go at the trailer have a problem with women being there - ironically I've seen this make people more interested in the game. And the people who had hands on experience are saying it's a really good game too. Interesting enough for all the historical inacuracy talk it actually got me to learn more stuff about WW2, like all those cosmetic options in the trailer are based off real things! Plus alot of people spread interesting stories about women in WW2 through twitter. I am honestly considering trying this game and I've never thought of trying FPS war game before. If that was true, then why weren't all the BF1 trailers that featured Zara (the playable Bedouin woman resistance fighter) downvoted to hell? Or the trailer for the "In the name of the Tsar" expansion which had women soldiers, a woman narrating it, and had a woman scout on the cover? Saying that people are mad at the BFV trailer soley because women are in it is hogwash.
But I digress.
If I were following Battlefield development, I'd be annoyed about the dude with a katana in there. I mean, really? I know we don't expect historical accuracy, but what sort of weird version of WW2 are we experiencing? :S
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Post by jclosed on May 30, 2018 6:34:57 GMT
While I do think some people will jump on the "hate-bandwagon", I do not think this will be the biggest hurdle Anthem has to take. Most comments I read in other places are more concerned about Anthem being too focused on the multi-player aspect. To put it simply - Most people that love BioWare games are single players. If Anthem has a very weak single player component, this will certainly will do not well with those players, resulting in a back-slash. BioWare certainly should not drop the ball here.
A byproduct from the above is that if Anthem concentrates more on multi player/co-op it "dives" into an already saturated market. It will be hard to compete with something like Warframe for instance. They really have to stand out to attract new players. The general reaction I read (but I admit I am biased as a single player myself), is that people will give Anthem a chance if the single player component is strong enough, otherwise they are not very interested.
So I think the backlash from the "TB incident" will not be that great, but it will certainly be used as "ammunition" the moment Anthem disappoints. I do think that Anthem will have a really hard job to convince people if it turns out to be a generic on-line game without a gripping single player, or overall, campaign. When they do not succeed in doing that, you will see the "ME:A effect" go in full swing.
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Post by Guts on May 30, 2018 8:33:04 GMT
Considering he was talking about a former employee at BioWare, I think there are plenty of sane people left. People put on a good face when applying for jobs and eventually let their true colors come through after awhile. There is plenty of evidence that people behave and act completely different at work then they can at home. I was even oblivious to a "nice guy persona" once where I worked. There are always going to be assholes on the internet, its one thing you always need to consider. BioWare has encountered plenty of them over the years, if anything the comment from Casey Hudson proves that because he had to make sure people understood he didn't work at BioWare anymore before the pitchforks came after them. One name: Manveer Heir.
He wasn't some nameless grunt, but literally The Face of BioWare. They've been sending him to all those GDC talks about Diversity, tolerance and Stuff. And when people started questioning his racist remarks what did BioWare did? Nothing. Pretended nothing happened. There wasn't even General Manager's damage control tweets like the one Casey made right now. Behavior like this is rampant in BioWare and at this point i am convinced that people like the one Casey is talking about do represent general BioWare's attitude. Grave Dancing is not out of their current character. The fact itself that Casey did said anything is telling that he is indeed have a bits of sanity left in him. No other BioWare or EA official did any of this. EDIT: Late response I know.
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Post by Pounce de León on May 30, 2018 10:48:50 GMT
The thing about EA and the hate towards them is that they seem unwilling to actually try and *do* something to mitigate the hate against them and buy some goodwill. Is it entirely fair that they have to deal with "hate" even before their products get a fair shake? Probably not, but then life is never "fair", and I'd say that they bought much of that hate fair and square. Again, I don't see them trying hard to avoid that or change their image. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming away from their precious LBs (which is understandable, given the sheer amount of money this scheme makes them, but not something that will make the average gamer sympathetic towards them). I mean, theoretically they could take a page or two from CDPR's playbook, be proactive, be pro-consumer from the start, announce a free DLC plan. DO something beyond just "we hear your criticism and we'll take it into consideration" - style of corporate-speak. As for the battlefield trailer discussion, personally I have very little interest in games of this sort, but I can see why many found that trailer bizarre. This isn't about "the woman", it's more that having a woman with one hand act as the savior knight in the trailer just adds another layer of incredulity to a trailer supposedly about a "grounded" game in a WW2 setting... It simply makes no sense, disabled people were never front-line fighters in WW2, much less a disabled woman, and for a good reason. (nor in any other war) Having a hook rather than a hand doesn't mean that you can fight your enemies with extra style-points, it means that you have no way to reload your weapon efficiently, you have trouble tying your shoes, you can't bandage a wound easily, EVERYTHING is more complicated when you have one hand, it also means that you have to take care of that questionable contraption in battlefield conditions, and it means that this is something else that can break down at the most inopportune moment. There were plenty of women-soldiers, the Russians are famous for their female snipers for example, there's hardly any need to make up ridiculous crap in a supposedly historical game. But no, this is all about me-soggy-knee, about gamers hating women... Give me a break. I'll just say, if you can't defeat an argument without misrepresenting it, it just means that your reasoning is full of shit. Quite well put - up until the part about the disabled woman. It might just me, but I actually play games for style points. I don't give many fucks about some (perceived or not) "representation" - unless they go full "greasy american patriot speech" or totally retard. From the trailer alone I don't see any indication or confirmation that this goes full SJW mode. Then again - I'm open to the idea of playing a black space nazi woman - 's gotta be one without wheelchair tho, cos I like to see a nice butt when playing.
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Post by rras1994 on May 30, 2018 11:15:32 GMT
If that was true, then why weren't all the BF1 trailers that featured Zara (the playable Bedouin woman resistance fighter) downvoted to hell? Or the trailer for the "In the name of the Tsar" expansion which had women soldiers, a woman narrating it, and had a woman scout on the cover? Saying that people are mad at the BFV trailer soley because women are in it is hogwash.
But I digress.
If I were following Battlefield development, I'd be annoyed about the dude with a katana in there. I mean, really? I know we don't expect historical accuracy, but what sort of weird version of WW2 are we experiencing? :S Japenese Officers did carry those swords and Allied Soldiers were known to take them as souveniers - like I said all those cosmetics are based off actual historical things,
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2018 11:35:39 GMT
This topic seems to have nearly burnt itself out. Do you think this issue will have much long-term stickiness or impact? In the scheme of things has David Crooks been a Manveer or an ass only briefly in the spotlight?
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Post by hivemind on May 30, 2018 11:40:56 GMT
One name: Manveer Heir.
He wasn't some nameless grunt, but literally The Face of BioWare. They've been sending him to all those GDC talks about Diversity, tolerance and Stuff. And when people started questioning his racist remarks what did BioWare did? Nothing. Pretended nothing happened. There wasn't even General Manager's damage control tweets like the one Casey made right now. Behavior like this is rampant in BioWare and at this point i am convinced that people like the one Casey is talking about do represent general BioWare's attitude. Grave Dancing is not out of their current character. The fact itself that Casey did said anything is telling that he is indeed have a bits of sanity left in him. No other BioWare or EA official did any of this. EDIT: Late response I know. Oh, i am dead serious. What is so wrong with what i said? He was the face of BioWare.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2018 11:49:47 GMT
Oh, i am dead serious. What is so wrong with what i said? He was the face of BioWare. In fairness, it wasn't just his face he was proud of, but I digress. You have the right to your own opinion, but I'm with Guts on this one...
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Post by PillarBiter on May 30, 2018 12:26:12 GMT
Japenese Officers did carry those swords and Allied Soldiers were known to take them as souveniers - like I said all those cosmetics are based off actual historical things, "Dan Browned". (I love TV Tropes...) I... must have been living under a rock? A whole new section of bizarre references just opened up to me! I love it!
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