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Post by river82 on May 30, 2018 14:02:17 GMT
In fairness, it wasn't just his face he was proud of, but I digress.
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Post by Sanunes on May 30, 2018 14:43:42 GMT
This topic seems to have nearly burnt itself out. Do you think this issue will have much long-term stickiness or impact? In the scheme of things has David Crooks been a Manveer or an ass only briefly in the spotlight?
To me they are different issues so it is going to be hard to really compare the lasting impact. Manveer did something really dumb, but there really wasn't sides already established so when people made videos about it, they could get a larger appeal to what he said because it was more of a universal thing. David Crooks again did something really dumb, but John Bain was a polarizing figure and plenty of people had opinions one way or the other, so you then add in the additional people who will defend what someone said either way regardless of who said it. In a lot of ways I think unless Crooks does something stupid again while still working under the EA umbrella I don't see it sticking too long, people are going to remember just like how groups of people remembered some of the comments John Bain said. In the end, I just don't think it is really going to go anywhere far because there is going to be push back from other people and preventing it from becoming an echo chamber for one side of the argument only. Personally any controversy is driven by money, if YouTube creators aren't making videos about the problem in overwhelming numbers its not going to stay an issue long for nobody is making money and they will move on to something they can rage about and make money.
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Post by linksocarina on May 30, 2018 14:45:38 GMT
Oh, i am dead serious. What is so wrong with what i said? He was the face of BioWare. In fairness, it wasn't just his face he was proud of, but I digress. You have the right to your own opinion, but I'm with Guts on this one... I mean...why have that picture?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2018 14:48:15 GMT
@caseydhudson I was extremely disappointed to find out about the comments on the passing of John Bain (@totalbiscuit) from someone who was previously part of BioWare. Let me be clear that they don’t represent BioWare’s views, EA’s, or my own. Our condolences go out to John and his family.Let's not have such a baity provocative thread title OP, but with that fixed I think Casey has read the mood right and has responded extremely effectively. In the current world of instant social media it's easy for anyone to post provocative stuff without almost giving it a second thought. I think Casey did what he had to do and that is bascially limit any damage to Bioware because god know's they've had their fair share of controversy over the years. I don't know if Casey felt that way or not because I don't know him, so I wouldn't want to judge him. The creators of the offensive tweet might at some point find themselves in the kind of hell Totalbiscuit found himself in towards the end of his life. I'm not wishing it on them, just saying Karma is a bitch.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2018 15:08:18 GMT
People who are not anonymous should think before they tweet. Just because there is a stream of toxicity from randos does not make it normal or ok. And it seems medication is no excuse either.
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Post by rras1994 on May 30, 2018 15:09:21 GMT
Let's not have such a baity provocative thread title OP, but with that fixed I think Casey has read the mood right and has responded extremely effectively. In the current world of instant social media it's easy for anyone to post provocative stuff without almost giving it a second thought. I think Casey did what he had to do and that is bascially limit any damage to Bioware because god know's they've had their fair share of controversy over the years. I don't know if Casey felt that way or not because I don't know him, so I wouldn't want to judge him. The creators of the offensive tweet might at some point find themselves in the kind of hell Totalbiscuit found himself in towards the end of his life. I'm not wishing it on them, just saying Karma is a bitch. That's what some people said about TotalBiscuit when he told someone to get cancer and die - it wasn't alright then either. John Bain didn't deserve to get cancer for his actions, neither do the tweeters in the OP either. And the smiley face at the end doesn't make the sentiment you expressed any better.
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Post by linksocarina on May 30, 2018 17:49:28 GMT
In the current world of instant social media it's easy for anyone to post provocative stuff without almost giving it a second thought. I think Casey did what he had to do and that is bascially limit any damage to Bioware because god know's they've had their fair share of controversy over the years. I don't know if Casey felt that way or not because I don't know him, so I wouldn't want to judge him. The creators of the offensive tweet might at some point find themselves in the kind of hell Totalbiscuit found himself in towards the end of his life. I'm not wishing it on them, just saying Karma is a bitch. That's what some people said about TotalBiscuit when he told someone to get cancer and die - it wasn't alright then either. John Bain didn't deserve to get cancer for his actions, neither do the tweeters in the OP either. And the smiley face at the end doesn't make the sentiment you expressed any better. Does put a lot of this in perspective...the cycle of the culture at large huh?
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2018 19:26:23 GMT
As for Crooks, all this was because of his position, no one would give a shit otherwise. I mean, it's not like plenty of other people from his crowd didn't write similar things or worse. Plenty of other nameless randos said the same, but that's not news.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 30, 2018 19:43:24 GMT
If Anthem does get metabombed to hell, I don't think it will because of some jackass on the development team especially given how BioWare is now putting its foot down on developer comments.
If anything, it will be the result of any noticeable glitches or bugs we see in the next trailer since that was the start of the trouble with Andromeda. I'm much more cynical on that front, honestly. Folks are just looking for any excuse at this point. And that prevents any fair shake in the court of public opinion. You already have people boycotting BioWare due to the stuff tweeted...others boycotting it over Sarkeesian, others boycotting over Mass Effect: Andromeda...others because they are owned by EA...it goes on you know. And it's a shame, really. It really has to be demoralizing sometimes for the dev team, because we know they are not being lazy or are stupid. Hard work, good or bad, doesn't get rewarded anymore for them. You damn right. When I rag on BioWare, it's not intended at the developers. However, if your name is associated with BioWare, you're held to a certain expectation. Don't like it, get out. There are plenty more people who would take a pay cut to work in forsaken Edmonton and don't have internal issues about identity. Sheez. Stop with policing and virtue signaling and fucking code. You want to rant, do it in real life in a bar or wherever you freaks hang out today. Deliver lines that are polished. Have a lead writer that is not a coward and succumbs to hive mind mentality. If that's not reality, then that's on BioWare's PR because they have done nothing to change anyone's mind that is remotely interested in this failing brand. If anything, everyone else wants to be spiteful and see this beloved brand destroyed because it's easy to do. Keep inviting Sarkeesian. I'm sure Maggs is concerned about that, because if she isn't... then expect to never get another shot in this industry that pays. Keep inviting YouTube shills who do nothing to help the brand, but draw attention to other things THAT ARE NOT VIDEO GAMES. THEY'RE POLITICS and guess what? It's not profitable for anyone except click-bait YouTubers. FUCK! Just code, write, edit, polish and repeat. STFU with your politics because you're not including, you're excluding. DERP. SJWs my ass. Please... I want to see Dragon Age 4. I want to see the promise of what you teased about in Inquisition. If it means making Anthem successful to see another Dragon Age... you need to go for the eyes, Boo. You need to make Anthem great so DA4 won't be another stupid book where everyone dies.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 30, 2018 20:03:28 GMT
As for Crooks, all this was because of his position, no one would give a shit otherwise. I mean, it's not like plenty of other people from his crowd didn't write similar things or worse. Plenty of other nameless randos said the same, but that's not news. Of course, but BioWare has placed a big bullseye on their head. The hypocrisy is there, but it's self-inflicted in BioWare's case. Do you understand where I'm coming from?
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Post by SofaJockey on May 30, 2018 20:15:20 GMT
Of course, but BioWare has placed a big bullseye on their head. The hypocrisy is there, but it's self-inflicted in BioWare's case. Do you understand where I'm coming from? I don't see any hypocrisy, many people post on social media and often they say where they work. Senior people like Casey and Mark will inevitably be much more careful about what they tweet, and others are more likely to tweet about puppies and what they ate than company secrets. What made this dynamite, in my view, was the depth of the venom, stored up over so long and delivered on absolutely the worst day possible with the name of the former company still there in the bio.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 30, 2018 21:05:56 GMT
Of course, but BioWare has placed a big bullseye on their head. The hypocrisy is there, but it's self-inflicted in BioWare's case. Do you understand where I'm coming from? I don't see any hypocrisy, many people post on social media and often they say where they work. Senior people like Casey and Mark will inevitably be much more careful about what they tweet, and others are more likely to tweet about puppies and what they ate than company secrets. What made this dynamite, in my view, was the depth of the venom, stored up over so long and delivered on absolutely the worst day possible with the name of the former company still there in the bio. I agree. Thank you.
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Post by FireAndBlood on May 30, 2018 22:22:40 GMT
Oh, i am dead serious. What is so wrong with what i said? He was the face of BioWare. In fairness, it wasn't just his face he was proud of, but I digress. You have the right to your own opinion, but I'm with Guts on this one... Gotta admire the mans confidence
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Post by Iakus on May 31, 2018 13:32:42 GMT
Of course, but BioWare has placed a big bullseye on their head. The hypocrisy is there, but it's self-inflicted in BioWare's case. Do you understand where I'm coming from? I don't see any hypocrisy, many people post on social media and often they say where they work. And when they do, they make themselves representative of their workplace. Fair or not.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 31, 2018 13:36:04 GMT
I don't see any hypocrisy, many people post on social media and often they say where they work. And when they do, they make themselves representative of their workplace. Fair or not. It's true, if you behave like an asshole and have your company's name on the Bio, expect some comeback.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 14:09:59 GMT
In the current world of instant social media it's easy for anyone to post provocative stuff without almost giving it a second thought. I think Casey did what he had to do and that is bascially limit any damage to Bioware because god know's they've had their fair share of controversy over the years. I don't know if Casey felt that way or not because I don't know him, so I wouldn't want to judge him. The creators of the offensive tweet might at some point find themselves in the kind of hell Totalbiscuit found himself in towards the end of his life. I'm not wishing it on them, just saying Karma is a bitch. That's what some people said about TotalBiscuit when he told someone to get cancer and die - it wasn't alright then either. John Bain didn't deserve to get cancer for his actions, neither do the tweeters in the OP either. And the smiley face at the end doesn't make the sentiment you expressed any better. awww. a young un lecturing me on morality. Bain didn't get Cancer for his actions, he got Cancer. 1 in 3 of us will be touched by it in our lifetime (I already have been). I think my perspective or comment is quite valid in this case. If you don't like it fair enough. Nobody is putting a gun to your or anyone elses head to force you to. That's freedom of speech.
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Post by rras1994 on May 31, 2018 14:24:06 GMT
That's what some people said about TotalBiscuit when he told someone to get cancer and die - it wasn't alright then either. John Bain didn't deserve to get cancer for his actions, neither do the tweeters in the OP either. And the smiley face at the end doesn't make the sentiment you expressed any better. awww. a young un lecturing me on morality. Bain didn't get Cancer for his actions, he got Cancer. 1 in 3 of us will be touched by it in our lifetime (I already have been). I think my perspective or comment is quite valid in this case. If you don't like it fair enough. Nobody is putting a gun to your or anyone elses head to force you to. That's freedom of speech. Two of my Aunts died from Colon cancer, and my mother just went in remission from Stage 3 Ovarian Cancer 2 years ago. Is my perspective valid now or am I still a "young un"?
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Post by SofaJockey on May 31, 2018 19:23:01 GMT
awww. a young un lecturing me on morality. Bain didn't get Cancer for his actions, he got Cancer. 1 in 3 of us will be touched by it in our lifetime (I already have been). I think my perspective or comment is quite valid in this case. If you don't like it fair enough. Nobody is putting a gun to your or anyone elses head to force you to. That's freedom of speech. Two of my Aunts died from Colon cancer, and my mother just went in remission from Stage 3 Ovarian Cancer 2 years ago. Is my perspective valid now or am I still a "young un"? I think Elvis has left the building... The last word on this discussion is yours, I think.
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Post by hivemind on May 31, 2018 21:19:18 GMT
I think what is undeniedable is the fact that public's perception of BioWare is far from when it was back 2010. A stream of games of debatable quality of the past 8 years and an employees like Heir and Crooks managed to put them into a very low rank.
Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? Ever since Chris Pistly left, it seems like nobody at bioware is working with the community. I know that there is someone putting stuff for official twitter and other facebook, but they completely silent when it comes to answering all the question community is asking. It kinda makes it ironic - they closed BSN with the argument that they have a more efficient things like reddit and twitter, yet they barely ever show their noses there. Those rare times when bioware actually say something it's the actual developers and not the Community Managers.
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Post by river82 on May 31, 2018 21:32:41 GMT
Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? Ever since Chris Pistly left, it seems like nobody at bioware is working with the community. I know that there is someone putting stuff for official twitter and other facebook, but they completely silent when it comes to answering all the question community is asking. It kinda makes it ironic - they closed BSN with the argument that they have a more efficient things like reddit and twitter, yet they barely ever show their noses there. Those rare times when bioware actually say something it's the actual developers and not the Community Managers. Under Aaryn Flynn's leadership, the disdain from Bioware toward the gaming community (or at least sections of the gaming community) had been palpable. Why have community managers when you don't respect a large section of the community? Anyway, I think Casey's already doing a better job as GM.
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Post by Heimdall on May 31, 2018 21:36:22 GMT
Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? Ever since Chris Pistly left, it seems like nobody at bioware is working with the community. I know that there is someone putting stuff for official twitter and other facebook, but they completely silent when it comes to answering all the question community is asking. It kinda makes it ironic - they closed BSN with the argument that they have a more efficient things like reddit and twitter, yet they barely ever show their noses there. Those rare times when bioware actually say something it's the actual developers and not the Community Managers. Under Aaryn Flynn's leadership, the disdain from Bioware toward the gaming community (or at least sections of the gaming community) had been palpable. Why have community managers when you don't respect a large section of the community? Anyway, I think Casey's already doing a better job as GM. Maybe having an outside perspective of Bioware has done him good.
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on May 31, 2018 22:53:24 GMT
I think what is undeniedable is the fact that public's perception of BioWare is far from when it was back 2010. A stream of games of debatable quality of the past 8 years and an employees like Heir and Crooks managed to put them into a very low rank. Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? Ever since Chris Pistly left, it seems like nobody at bioware is working with the community. I know that there is someone putting stuff for official twitter and other facebook, but they completely silent when it comes to answering all the question community is asking. It kinda makes it ironic - they closed BSN with the argument that they have a more efficient things like reddit and twitter, yet they barely ever show their noses there. Those rare times when bioware actually say something it's the actual developers and not the Community Managers. I'm not defending BioWare in anyway when I start this rant, but you're right: Moderators have the CRAPPIEST JOB IN THE WORLD. I don't care if you're a recycler, a drainage ditch cleaner, a sewage pipe unclogger… nothing, absolutely nothing compares to being a moderator. You can't win arguments. There is no winning. You have to filter out the bullcrap of what people are saying in hyperbole (like me... I'm super guilty of it), what people are really saying about what bothers them because they're struggling with words, or just people who just had a bad day and want to shitpost anonymously. With that said, I have sympathy for BioWare. BioWare has described the fanbase as obnoxious, toxic and self-serving. I say to BioWare: doing nothing by retreating is obnoxious, toxic and self-serving. You want my money. Fuck you. Polish your game. You want my money. Fuck you. Don't expect me to patch your bullshit releases. You want my money. Fuck you. I don't have to agree with your stupid politics. You want my money. Fuck you. I'm not spending anymore money because fandom has been reduced to being a fanboy, a shill or a whale. None of them are pretty. BioWare has a lot of potential talent, but they're not executing because of many, many reasons and those many, many reasons start from the very top and work themselves down to the sewers. Ok, I'm sorry for being offensive, but I just wanted to make my point and that is: Don't run away from the problem. Address it. If you can't, we're not the failures. You are... you're smart, you're capable, you're sympathetic, but lately... you're unrecognizable. Stop looking at everyone else for the new idea or identity. Just keep to your own and the success will come naturally. If you're having to confer with someone to make a decision, you better not be a manager or a leader. Ok, rant is over. I'm going to settle down now and hope the best for Anthem. I am excited over it.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 1, 2018 13:07:25 GMT
I think what is undeniedable is the fact that public's perception of BioWare is far from when it was back 2010. A stream of games of debatable quality of the past 8 years and an employees like Heir and Crooks managed to put them into a very low rank. Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? Ever since Chris Pistly left, it seems like nobody at bioware is working with the community. I know that there is someone putting stuff for official twitter and other facebook, but they completely silent when it comes to answering all the question community is asking. It kinda makes it ironic - they closed BSN with the argument that they have a more efficient things like reddit and twitter, yet they barely ever show their noses there. Those rare times when bioware actually say something it's the actual developers and not the Community Managers. BioWare "declining public's perception" is just people who can't accept that a game company can make various type of games and that they aren't tied to a bunch of vocal fans demands, compounded by the EA haters bandwagons, social media stalking and a bit of circle jerking. Outside of MEA, all their games in the last 8 years were critically acclaimed regardless of how you personally think ME2, ME3, DA2 and DAI are shit...and I personally think MEA is extremely underrated. As for community managers, their job is to run the official twitter, gather feedbacks, prepare conventions and post news, they aren't necessarily privy to all the game development decisions. Also, questions are usually not answered because the developers can't answer them ( read this for reasons why). SWTOR have Eric Musco. Anthem have AJ (announced himself a few days ago). Fernando Melo seems to handle ME(?) DA had Conal Pierce(?).
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 1, 2018 14:22:02 GMT
Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? ... I was chatting with the 'Global Community Lead' for Anthem, AJ Johnson twitter.com/UNTDrew, yesterday. Seemed very pleasant. I invited him to pop his head in here, though I imagine that won't be until after #EAPlay. Also It was lovely in the run-up to MEA when Ian Frasier used to pop his head in publically here. (and I see other devs lurking even this week )
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 1, 2018 15:07:47 GMT
Btw, where is BioWare's Community Managers? ... I was chatting with the 'Global Community Lead' for Anthem, AJ Johnson twitter.com/UNTDrew, yesterday. Seemed very pleasant. I invited him to pop his head in here, though I imagine that won't be until after #EAPlay. Also It was lovely in the run-up to MEA when Ian Frasier used to pop his head in publically here. (and I see other devs lurking even this week )
Well, I;m always glad to have them pop in.
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