JayKay
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Post by JayKay on May 31, 2018 4:49:06 GMT
Of Bethesda Softworks' published games, I only like the Dishonored series. I tried ESIV Oblivion and thought it a disappointment / joke when I finished it. Tried FC3 and didn't like it. So for Bethesda, I don't expect them to publish a game I would like and never paid any attention to the buzz. That's another thing in their favor -- even if their own games are buggy as shit, they publish some sleek, awesome content, from Dishonored to Doom to Wolfenstein.
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Post by SofaJockey on May 31, 2018 6:14:33 GMT
It doesn't work if you have to explain the joke but The original video I posted was more of a tongue in cheek jab at the "it just works" line that was a reference to a line said by Todd Howard that is usually brought up to make fun of the fact that things in Elder Scrolls/ Bethesda made fallout games don't work very well. However the second video was showcasing a very clear lie by Todd Howard and whoever recorded the gameplay footage for that video showcasing what is clearly scripted encounters being passed off as random behavior that is supposed to occur as part of the radiant AI system. Ah, fair enough. Even so, seems a little mean of the ES community to be so salty, Oblivion was awesome.
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Post by sgtreed24 on May 31, 2018 13:51:01 GMT
I have yet to play a disappointing bethesda game. Idk why people hate on them.
Everyone always brings up bugs, but I don't really experience that either lol.
I love them because they are usually highly customizable when it comes to my character. They usually have great settings and atmosphere and story. And they also often include choices that vary up my games enough to give them replay value.
So when I see a new Fallout (this is one of my fav franchises simply because of the setting) by bethesda, I'm going to get hype.
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Post by decafhigh on May 31, 2018 14:19:07 GMT
However the second video was showcasing a very clear lie by Todd Howard and whoever recorded the gameplay footage for that video showcasing what is clearly scripted encounters being passed off as random behavior that is supposed to occur as part of the radiant AI system. Meh, its pre-game hype. Everyone knows they cut back on the Radiant AI before Oblivion's release, they've admitted that. I don't really see that as "lying". Not in the same way as I would call "we won't have a traditional A, B, or C ending" an outright lie. 
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 31, 2018 21:30:07 GMT
The Elder Scrolls series is arguably what got me into rpgs. Skyrim was my first. But I went back and played Morrowind and Oblivion and got obsessed with them just as much. For me it was all about the creativity in creating your own character with their own story (I usually ignored the main quest in those games). That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. For as much as the word "freedom" is thrown out when describing Bethesda games there really isn't much freedom to do anything outside of what the rigidly linear questlines allow you to do, the only real freedom you have is to decide which questlines you want to do and in which order you do them in however nothing done in the questlines has any effect on anything outside of that questline and how your character is defined by the world around them depends entirely on whatever questline you happen to be doing at that moment, if you are doing the fighters guild you are a fighter, if you are doing the mages guild questline you are a mage, if you want to be contradictory you can do the knights of the nine questline and be a paladin while simultaneously being a sadistic murderer for the Dark Brotherhood and switch between questlines on a whim and once you are done your actions in both questlines will have no tangible effect on the larger world as a whole apart from maybe a throw away line from the guard where he tells you he knows that you work for the Dark Brotherhood (then later the exact same guard will praise your noble actions as the paladin). As for gameplay while you do get to select which skills to focus on the game always comes down to the same 2 options, stealth or combat and generally different questlines will force you into one option or the other depending on who the questline is for, there are no multiple ways to complete a quest and by the time you have done everything in the game the world state will be essentially the same as the other person who did everything in the game apart from maybe the choice of whether to side with the stormcloaks or the imperials. In the end the Elder Scrolls series gives you about as much freedom to define your characters as the GTA or more accurately the Saint's Row games give you which really isn't much beyond character appearance.
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Post by sgtreed24 on May 31, 2018 21:53:44 GMT
The Elder Scrolls series is arguably what got me into rpgs. Skyrim was my first. But I went back and played Morrowind and Oblivion and got obsessed with them just as much. For me it was all about the creativity in creating your own character with their own story (I usually ignored the main quest in those games). That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. Yeah, totally... besides ya know, you level and enhance the skills you want your character to be proficient in by actually using said skill and then branch that skill into the type of specialty you want your character to be known for. Not to mention your race background or the faction you wish to support in the war. Or if you want to join a warrior type guild or a stealth related one. Or if you want to murder everyone or be a law abiding citizen. Hell you don't even have to follow the dragonborn main quest. If you don't go to Whiterun, you'll never see a single dragon and can ignore that completely. Fuck with being the dragonborn. But nah, there's no freedom in the game besides your character's appearance. lol
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Post by Queen Skadi on May 31, 2018 22:38:01 GMT
That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. Yeah, totally... besides ya know, you level and enhance the skills you want your character to be proficient in by actually using said skill and then branch that skill into the type of specialty you want your character to be known for. Not to mention your race background or the faction you wish to support in the war. Or if you want to join a warrior type guild or a stealth related one. Or if you want to murder everyone or be a law abiding citizen. Hell you don't even have to follow the dragonborn main quest. If you don't go to Whiterun, you'll never see a single dragon and can ignore that completely. Fuck with being the dragonborn. But nah, there's no freedom in the game besides your character's appearance. lol I dunno man it is almost as if you completely ignored what I said in order to post some butthurt knee jerk reaction without truly understanding what was said. But ok why don't you tell me how the world reacts differently to your character if you choose a Khajiit instead of a Nord or how the gameplay changes if you choose to level one handed weapons over 2 handed weapons? Does joining the warrior type guild exclude you from joining the stealth related one and does the world and the gameplay forever change based on your decision, or is it merely a choice akin to deciding whether or not you want to bother with the tow truck missions in GTA 5? I am sure you can ignore the main quest if you want but you can also ignore the main missions in any GTA game and just run down pedestrians, but in the end the only effect this choice has on your gameplay experience is depriving yourself of content.
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Post by sgtreed24 on Jun 1, 2018 0:58:46 GMT
Yeah, totally... besides ya know, you level and enhance the skills you want your character to be proficient in by actually using said skill and then branch that skill into the type of specialty you want your character to be known for. Not to mention your race background or the faction you wish to support in the war. Or if you want to join a warrior type guild or a stealth related one. Or if you want to murder everyone or be a law abiding citizen. Hell you don't even have to follow the dragonborn main quest. If you don't go to Whiterun, you'll never see a single dragon and can ignore that completely. Fuck with being the dragonborn. But nah, there's no freedom in the game besides your character's appearance. lol I dunno man it is almost as if you completely ignored what I said in order to post some butthurt knee jerk reaction without truly understanding what was said. But ok why don't you tell me how the world reacts differently to your character if you choose a Khajiit instead of a Nord or how the gameplay changes if you choose to level one handed weapons over 2 handed weapons? Does joining the warrior type guild exclude you from joining the stealth related one and does the world and the gameplay forever change based on your decision, or is it merely a choice akin to deciding whether or not you want to bother with the tow truck missions in GTA 5? I am sure you can ignore the main quest if you want but you can also ignore the main missions in any GTA game and just run down pedestrians, but in the end the only effect this choice has on your gameplay experience is depriving yourself of content. It gives you the freedom of choice in how to play your character. If you want them to specialize, you can. If you want them to to do everything all in one playthrough as some god of all trades, you can do that too. Point is, how is that not freedom? It's not just herp derp you can only customize your character's looks. With the freedom they give you, you can customize your whole experience. Whether you choose to ruin that and make your character be a mage/2 handed/bow shooting person is up to you. If you use only magic with your character then that is vastly different gameplay than when you craft poisons, use stealth, and a bow. Or if you decide to being a battlemage with heavy armor, magic in one hand and a sword in the other than you use enchanting on, that's also different. I read your comment and to imply there's no freedom is ridiculous.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 1, 2018 1:09:04 GMT
They destroy time and consume lives. Bethesda is a drug pusher, and we are its manic users.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 1, 2018 2:51:39 GMT
I dunno man it is almost as if you completely ignored what I said in order to post some butthurt knee jerk reaction without truly understanding what was said. But ok why don't you tell me how the world reacts differently to your character if you choose a Khajiit instead of a Nord or how the gameplay changes if you choose to level one handed weapons over 2 handed weapons? Does joining the warrior type guild exclude you from joining the stealth related one and does the world and the gameplay forever change based on your decision, or is it merely a choice akin to deciding whether or not you want to bother with the tow truck missions in GTA 5? I am sure you can ignore the main quest if you want but you can also ignore the main missions in any GTA game and just run down pedestrians, but in the end the only effect this choice has on your gameplay experience is depriving yourself of content. It gives you the freedom of choice in how to play your character. If you want them to specialize, you can. If you want them to to do everything all in one playthrough as some god of all trades, you can do that too. Point is, how is that not freedom? It's not just herp derp you can only customize your character's looks. With the freedom they give you, you can customize your whole experience. Whether you choose to ruin that and make your character be a mage/2 handed/bow shooting person is up to you. If you use only magic with your character then that is vastly different gameplay than when you craft poisons, use stealth, and a bow. Or if you decide to being a battlemage with heavy armor, magic in one hand and a sword in the other than you use enchanting on, that's also different. I read your comment and to imply there's no freedom is ridiculous. If you read my comment as me saying there is no freedom in elder scrolls games then you need to read again, there is an element of freedom in nearly every game out there, whether it be the choice to use the pistol over the shotgun or whether to travel down a hidden path in search of hidden content or whether not to, you do get to decide how you want to play the game within the limits of the game, however marketing the elder scrolls games as somehow unique games that emphasize player freedom in defining who their character is and who they become is a lie, you have little more freedom to define your character in context of how the world sees your character than you do in a GTA or Saint's Row game, sure you can run over nameless civilians and cause a ruckus if you feel like it however when it comes to missions you can't really do much more than follow the rigidly linear defined path the game sets out for you and generally there is very little you can do to effect the outcome of that mission with most quests ending more or less the same and having no effect on anything outside of that questline, you can't kill plot important NPCs or even NPCs that have minor roles in obscure questlines and even if you try to kill them they just get back up and react to you like nothing happened never referencing the attempt on their life and acting as if your character is whatever the questline needs your character to be.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2018 14:21:48 GMT
That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. If you can't find a way to make your character your own in a TES game, you just aren't going to be happy with anything other than table top games. TES and FO both obviously have to have some restrictions due to the medium of being a computer game, but as far as computer games go they are pretty wide open.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jun 1, 2018 14:34:54 GMT
That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. If you can't find a way to make your character your own in a TES game, you just aren't going to be happy with anything other than table top games. TES and FO both obviously have to have some restrictions due to the medium of being a computer game, but as far as computer games go they are pretty wide open. I don't know. I aways felt it was a rather mixed bag. While I felt I had a considerable range of choices to decide my character's intentions in Skyrim, for stance. I felt I was streamlined into a lot of events. I have no choice but to do Molag Bal's bidding, I have no choice but to agree into becoming Nocturnal's slave, I have no choice but to slay my own companion for Boethiah, I have no choice but to join the thieves guild... There were certain points were Skyrim was drastically lacking in the roleplaying department.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2018 15:03:07 GMT
If you can't find a way to make your character your own in a TES game, you just aren't going to be happy with anything other than table top games. TES and FO both obviously have to have some restrictions due to the medium of being a computer game, but as far as computer games go they are pretty wide open. I don't know. I aways felt it was a rather mixed bag. While I felt I had a considerable range of choices to decide my character's intentions in Skyrim, for stance. I felt I was streamlined into a lot of events. I have no choice but to do Molag Bal's bidding, I have no choice but to agree into becoming Nocturnal's slave, I have no choice but to slay my own companion for Boethiah, I have no choice but to join the thieves guild... There were certain points were Skyrim was drastically lacking in the roleplaying department. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.  I had characters in Skyrim that did none of those things, others did all of them, characters that did some and not other parts of that. I'm not sure where you are going with this.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jun 1, 2018 15:07:00 GMT
I don't know. I aways felt it was a rather mixed bag. While I felt I had a considerable range of choices to decide my character's intentions in Skyrim, for stance. I felt I was streamlined into a lot of events. I have no choice but to do Molag Bal's bidding, I have no choice but to agree into becoming Nocturnal's slave, I have no choice but to slay my own companion for Boethiah, I have no choice but to join the thieves guild... There were certain points were Skyrim was drastically lacking in the roleplaying department. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.  I had characters in Skyrim that did none of those things, others did all of them, characters that did some and not other parts of that. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Then clearly, you're not a completionist like me. One doesn't simply leave the quest log unfinished.
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Post by decafhigh on Jun 1, 2018 15:13:56 GMT
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.  I had characters in Skyrim that did none of those things, others did all of them, characters that did some and not other parts of that. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Then clearly, you're not a completionist like me. One doesn't simply leave the quest log unfinished. Well, that is fine and all, but it doesn't really have anything to do with making the character your own or unique or role playing in anyway. I found it pretty easy to rp those moments in Skyrim. Fallout tends to railroad your character a lot more, especially FO4 was terrible about that but I was still able to find ways to make my character my own there too. Some people won't be able to, and that is fine, just means computer games are too restrictive for them. Table top games are still there for those that enjoy them. You are not however going to get a computer game that can match that level of freedom.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jun 1, 2018 20:07:15 GMT
I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not.  I had characters in Skyrim that did none of those things, others did all of them, characters that did some and not other parts of that. I'm not sure where you are going with this. Then clearly, you're not a completionist like me. One doesn't simply leave the quest log unfinished. It depends on the game for me. If it's like New Vegas I'll finish like 80-100% of the quests in the game. But after playing half of Dragon Age Inquisition, I was extremely bored and rushed to kill the main villain. I rate DA:O a 7/10. but a boring 7/10 (most of the score belongs to the castle and its related mechanism that I enjoyed the most, plus some awesome areas/missions), ... I might not touch it anytime soon.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 1, 2018 20:55:16 GMT
That is probably one of my biggest gripes with the Elder Scrolls games, for all the talk about creating your own character and doing what you want and being who you want it is all a lie, and a poorly concealed one at that, apart from being able to choose how your character looks there really isn't much in the game that allows you to define who your character is or what their story may be. If you can't find a way to make your character your own in a TES game, you just aren't going to be happy with anything other than table top games. TES and FO both obviously have to have some restrictions due to the medium of being a computer game, but as far as computer games go they are pretty wide open. You are kind of missing the point, I mean yeah the Elder Scrolls games allow you to pick your race and gender and customize your character's appearance and leave the backstory of your character intentionally blank for you to fill with your own headcanon but in the end this is not something unique to Bethesda games but applies to any game with a character creator, whats more in the context of how the world reacts to your character and how your character is perceived by the world around them all that stuff is completely and entirely irrelevant. Your character's race has no effect on the opportunities open to your character nor does it really effect how other character's perceive your character even if the character is supposed to be a huge racist, hell most of the time your race isn't even referenced in dialogue outside a few rare instances, same goes for your characters sex and don't expect anyone to give a rats ass about whatever your character's headcanon backstory may be. Heck even the skills you choose to specialize in don't really matter in the long run, you are entirely capable of getting to the top of any guild without specializing in any of the skills those guilds are known for, you are entirely capable of becoming grandmaster of the college of Winterhold without training any of your magic stats and you can get through most of the missions without casting a single spell, and in the end it really does not matter what skills you have as different skills don't open up unique options for completing quests, most of the time you only have 2 options which are combat and stealth and generally different missions will force you down one path or the other. Sure the Elder Scrolls games allow you to ignore the story the game provides and headcanon your own, but so do almost every game in existence, however as far as getting the game to acknowledge your character's personal story and unique characteristics it is a complete failure and defeats the purpose of playing a unique character, you might as well be swinging a cardboard tube at invisible monsters in your backyard for all it matters.
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Post by Queen Skadi on Jun 1, 2018 21:02:19 GMT
Then clearly, you're not a completionist like me. One doesn't simply leave the quest log unfinished. Well, that is fine and all, but it doesn't really have anything to do with making the character your own or unique or role playing in anyway. I found it pretty easy to rp those moments in Skyrim. Is that really roleplaying though? You aren't really deciding what your character would do in that particular instance but rather trying to find a way to justify the action the game tells you your character has to do in order to progress. For instance in Mario you have to complete the levels and rescue Princess Peach but maybe I am roleplaying a Mario that does not want to get his dick wet so how do I justify having to rescue princess peach yet still make it make sense in the context of what MY version of Mario would do? Perhaps I could "roleplay" my Mario as a cake fiend that is doing it for the promise of cake! Maybe Mario's hat is secretly a fedora and he is doing it because he is a White Knight and no reward is neccessary! But in the end am I really deciding what actions my Mario would take in this situation or just trying to find a justification for what the game tells me I have to do to progress?
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Post by phoray on Jun 1, 2018 21:35:26 GMT
I thought the love of Bethesda was directly related to their modding community. having prettier games means they'd have to get a prettier engine. But then people wouldn't be able to mod, and nobody would play the games.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Jun 1, 2018 22:06:18 GMT
I thought the love of Bethesda was directly related to their modding community. having prettier games means they'd have to get a prettier engine. But then people wouldn't be able to mod, and nobody would play the games.I wouldn't go quite that far, but there's no question the modding community is a huge part of their enduring success. Just look at the number of mods for Skyrim vs any other game. Also, the degree of freedom in their games is almost unparalleled imo.
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Post by phoray on Jun 1, 2018 22:12:57 GMT
Queen Skadi You dislike SKyrim the same reason I dislike Skyrim. The choices we make are only token reflected in the world around you. When I look back on my month with Skyrim these are my complaints: 1. I married an ex-werewolf, then became a vampire. Becoming a Vampire had two huge problems with it. - 1A. The quest I did to become a vampire involved me mind controlling an NPC. I thought WOW! this is awesome! It's like an Instant persuasion check! Who DOESN'T become a Vampire?! they're crazy, this opens up so many interesting ways to finish quests and- SLAM- nope. The most you can do is make people a little fuzzy headed to bite them. Also people start treating you like crap on occasion. And weakness during daylight. whatever.
- 1B. I couldn't tell my ex werewolf husband I was a vampire. I couldn't tell him anything. The closest to trying to tell him I was a vampire was to bite him. And in that case, he would rise up and try to murder me.
2. After hanging out with Imperials and Stormcloaks, I decided they were both asshole groups I had no interest in helping. So I left. But every now and then, as I built entire homes, adopted children, saved the world from dragons, I'd wander by only to see that they were having the exact same conversation as when I saw them last and the time before that. The Civil War was frozen without my involvement to resolve it, even though it should have carried on in the background.
3. I became the head of the Thieve's Guild and nothing changes other than like, 3 NPCs calling me the master of the Thieve's Guild. The quests I could pick up never got more complex than the stealth parlor tricks I'd done to get into the guild in the first place. I Ordered No one Anywhere to Steal the Thing. In what way was I the master exactly? which killed any urge to become the master of any other guild.
I need Alistair saying, "Are you insane?" for choosing to kill someone. When I choose to work for Athenril in the prologue of Dragon Age 2, she comes back in Act 1 with total memory of who I am and offering me more work. If I aided Thrask when it came to his illegal mage daughter, and then forget who he is later-and ask him who he is, he remembers I aided him with his daughter. And depending on how I resolved his quest, it's either a gentle reminder or "Forgot the man you blackmailed already?" I want more than one way to resolve a conversation: (Intimidate, Persuasion, Bribe, lie, combat) and I want the fact that I chose one of those options to be remembered later. have an effect beyond the immediate quest line.
I don't want to RP my character in a vacuum with a spouted dialogue line from random guardsmen 200 to announce that, ya, I did that one quest one time. I don't care what the guardsmen thinks of me. I care what the spider web of memorable NPCs thinks of me. And for all it's day/night cycle and people sleeping and a Clock, then that means the Civil War should have resolved without my input if the world were really that dedicated to being "alive"
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 14, 2018 2:57:12 GMT
Yet when they actually get released they are usually such disappointments? Sure there are a lot of Bethesda fanboys who don't know any better and who's only barometer for judging the quality of a game is the amount of hours of content the game has but while Bethesda games usually have a lot of content it is usually the most shallow and dull content you can imagine, little more than a list of tasks and items to collect for 100% completion as you strive to be leader of every guild and group in the land despite their often times conflicting natures and goals. Now we got Fallout 76 coming despite knowing little about it other than speculation all it takes to get the internet roused into a frenzy is a live stream featuring nothing but a bobblehead and a television showing the emergency standby signal, why? Also I take it we wont be seeing Starbound this year as all rumours before hand suggested (just like last year and the year before suggested as well)? BioWare's time has come. Accept it.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 14, 2018 2:58:45 GMT
It doesn't work if you have to explain the joke but The original video I posted was more of a tongue in cheek jab at the "it just works" line that was a reference to a line said by Todd Howard that is usually brought up to make fun of the fact that things in Elder Scrolls/ Bethesda made fallout games don't work very well. However the second video was showcasing a very clear lie by Todd Howard and whoever recorded the gameplay footage for that video showcasing what is clearly scripted encounters being passed off as random behavior that is supposed to occur as part of the radiant AI system. Ah, fair enough. Even so, seems a little mean of the ES community to be so salty, Oblivion was awesome. Oblivion > DA: Origins.
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LogicGunn
N3
 
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Jun 14, 2018 9:24:03 GMT
I guess it comes down to what you want in a game. I have yet to be disappointed by a Bethesda game, so I'm always excited when they reveal something because I can be sure that I'll enjoy it. Perhaps their offerings aren't to your taste?
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 14, 2018 9:29:02 GMT
I thought the love of Bethesda was directly related to their modding community. having prettier games means they'd have to get a prettier engine. But then people wouldn't be able to mod, and nobody would play the games. Absolutes never really fit. Bethesda is great at building worlds and settings.
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