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Post by pavellaning on Jun 22, 2018 21:28:20 GMT
How about anyone else? I have various rogue saves in various states of completion but I happen to like the Mage dynamic the most and I have grown to adore Carver.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2018 21:33:05 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered.
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Post by pavellaning on Jun 22, 2018 21:34:43 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered. Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 22, 2018 21:36:50 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered. Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. Yep.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 22, 2018 22:04:54 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered. Apostates exist absolutely imaginable. I love that mage Hawke's an outlaw, even if s/he's a noble. An apostate doesn't have a home. As a warrior/rogue, we can experience that, only if Hawke worries about Bethany in danger in the Circle, and wants to free her, no matter the cost, but if not – then Hawke just a noble, who helps people and shit happen around him. As a fantastic feeling to walk in the Hightown openly – knowing, that I can lose that in a moment, and become pariah again. As warrior/rogue this feeling again: just if Hawke wants to free Bethany or worries about Anders/Merrill, and able to leave everything that s/he earned, for them. The mage able to leave everything for his/her people. I love Bethany – I love she's a revolutionary at the end, but I don't like so much the martyr. She' s much better than that boring good girl at first sight, but many people love her only because she's not "problematic", she just loves Hawke, whatever Hawke do, even if kill her. So easy to betray her – she will accept that, without a word. People love if the others around them are obedient, or just don't show their opposite opinions. In fact much better if they do not show any opinions. But Carver is great. A true second son. His brotherly rivalry and/or a slowly formed friendship is great. ___ As a mage would be more interesting the opposite view too: I betray my people, I betray what I'm because I think, I'm able to cross my shadow.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 22, 2018 22:09:15 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered. Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. Hawke doesn't use spells in Kirkwall's public streets – until the qunari incident. At least doesn't leave eyewitnesses.
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pavellaning
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Post by pavellaning on Jun 22, 2018 22:10:06 GMT
Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. Hawke doesn't use spells in Kirkwall's public streets – until the qunari incident. at least doesn't leave eyewitnesses. True enough. That said my canon Hawke (Ionie) is a Mage and I can't see Hawke any other way.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 23, 2018 23:28:04 GMT
Same. It'd be nice to have Bethany for a change - I adore Carver, but I think Hawke's dynamic with Beth is interesting too - but I can't see Hawke as anything other than a mage.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 25, 2018 3:51:35 GMT
Mage makes for a much better story, but Rogue has always been my preferred class, and how I completed most playthroughs.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 19:59:47 GMT
Nah.
Rogue, mage, warrior, mage, rogue. I enjoy trying all them out, they're all fun in combat, and story, in their own ways.
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Post by Tittus on Jun 27, 2018 1:50:40 GMT
Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. Hawke doesn't use spells in Kirkwall's public streets – until the qunari incident. At least doesn't leave eyewitnesses. What are you talking about? "Last of His Line", "Loose Ends" in Meeran path, the prologue where you fight in front of the guards, and as far as I'm concerned all those houses are inhabited, especialy at night
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Post by Catilina on Jun 27, 2018 1:54:01 GMT
Hawke doesn't use spells in Kirkwall's public streets – until the qunari incident. At least doesn't leave eyewitnesses. What are you talking about? "Last of His Line", "Loose Ends" in Meeran path, the prologue where you fight in front of the guards, and as far as I'm concerned all those houses are inhabited, especialy at night
I don't think, Hawke conflagrate the whole Kirkwall when he arrived – I think Hawke fight with more common and less dramatic weapons: blade and fist. Everything else – just game mechanics.
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Post by obbie1984 on Jun 27, 2018 21:51:59 GMT
I've completed the game as all three classes a while ago (I haven't done sword and board and archer). To me, mage Hawke makes the least sense to me but mage is at least fun.
I actually plan to replay this game as a female Hawke and make her a sword and board warrior so I don't have to take Aveline with me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 6:38:48 GMT
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 2, 2018 11:38:05 GMT
I've yet to finish the game as a warrior most of my Hawke's are mages...the female ones anyway my male Hawke's tend to be rogues don't ask me why, but I just like them that way the story doesn't make much sense as a mage, but you have to remember that it's Varric who's telling the story to Cassandra so hell no he'd tell her about every occasion where he had to cover for a mage Hawke because someone saw them casting spells plus, it's one of the reasons he invites them along on the Deep Roads expedition, either to protect Hawke...or Bethany Varric: look, I know the Templars have been asking questions, how bad would it be to get out of the city for a while? I mean, in (party) dialogue he says that he's protecting both Merrill and Anders by having the authorities and goons turn a blind eye Varric: Daisy, for my sake, please quit cutting through the alleys in Lowtown alone at night. Merrill: Nothing ever happens. I'm perfectly safe, Varric. Varric: Yes, I know. And that nothing is costing me a fortune. Varric to some random guy at the Hanged Man: let me know if you hear any more rumbling from the Coterie about protection, Blondie has enough trouble as it is and let's not forget the conversation you have with Tallis during her introduction in MotA Hawke: what makes you think I steal things because people ask me to? Varric: I ah...may have talked you up a bit...maybe more than once Hawke: *sighs* oh Varric Varric: what? You'd rather I tell everyone you were a mage? So yeah, the story doesn't make much sense as a mage, but it's enjoyable nevertheless though I can't for the life of me pick Blood Mage as a spec...
Plus I'm more partial to Carver, he's (in my opinion) at lot more enjoyable to have around then Bethany mostly because he actually disagrees with you and doesn't just nod and accept like Bethany does don't get me wrong, Bethany is very sweet...but sometimes you just need someone that says no, and imo that's Carver
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 13:42:26 GMT
i'm the special one as I usually play warrior.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 2, 2018 14:41:14 GMT
Meanwhile I can't finish the game as a mage. I enjoy the Rogue class more and like Bethany far more than Carver. Plus being a mage in DA2 really makes no sense all things considered. Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. I solve that by not letting Hawke fight whenever there are npcs nearby. The other companions do all the work. And I certainly do not choose the dialogue option where Hawke reveals to Vincento that he is a mage.
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Post by copper on Aug 3, 2018 2:09:27 GMT
Like being an apostate in a city full of Templars casting spells in public. I solve that by not letting Hawke fight whenever there are npcs nearby. The other companions do all the work. And I certainly do not choose the dialogue option where Hawke reveals to Vincento that he is a mage. I reload whenever I pick it, but that dialogue with the Qunari who are after Ketojan with a mage Hawke, Merrill, and Anders always cracks me up. They all talk so casually about being mages and the Qunari freak.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 5, 2018 2:16:07 GMT
That's funny, I have it the other way around. Finished once with a dagger rogue, once with a sword'n board warrior, and lost interest in the first half of chapter 1 half a dozen times with mages. And now I'm cruising through the game as a bow rogue, and having a blast.
Don't know what it is. A few of the spells are cooler-looking (Cone of Cold is all I want to do all day, though it should probably be renamed Spray of Cold), but most are just lazy and it really stretches my suspension of disbelief for Hawke to be a mage and not arrested within the first hour of the game. And frankly, I just can't stand Carver's attitude. If he was my brother, I'd have beaten the crap out if him to teach him a lesson long ago, just to see if it would stick when nothing else seemed to.
I don't see the point of the "Mage Hawke feels more central to the Mage/Templar storyline" argument. S/he isn't. At all. Anders carries that just fine all on his own. Hawke is just... there... when things tend to go down. In my head, Hawke works better as a classic working-class adventurer and glory hound, seeking his/her fortune and getting caught up in events way out of his/her league for mercenary reasons, and because s/he has a lot of unfortunate friends and family, and feels compelled to protect them. Warrior and Rogue both work better for those themes than Mage.
I also find the fortune-hunting angle a lot more relatable than fighting for freedom. Before television and movies suddenly convinced us that we all had happiness and glory waiting for us eventually, it was considered every man's responsibility to fight tooth and nail to improve himself, his lot in life and that of those who depended on him. Building and protecting your reputation, making connections and trying your damndest to move up in the world was what life used to be about everywhere. Hawke's story echoes that. In comparison, the "Freedom for Mages!" conflict is pretty hollow, and doesn't do the Templar's side of the debate justice at all. That works better as Anders' pet project/ill-considered crusade which blows up in everybody's face, rather than something Hawke is supposed to have an intrinsic stake in from the get-go beyond protecting his/her sister.
The fact that Warriors and Rogues were at Ostagar with Carver appeals to me as well. It's a fairly strong common thread between him/her and the Warden, as well as Loghain if he's still alive and working with Hawke in Inquisition. A rogue Hawke completes the trifecta of Rogue/Warrior/Mage between all the siblings too. And it also helps sell the feeling of each child having a different role in the family. Carver is the hardworking but whiny brat, Bethany is the favored and sheltered - but also better educated - middle child, and Hawke is the more experienced and decisive older brother/sister who stepped up when daddy died because mom was kind of useless. Having Hawke be a mage steals a bit of Bethany's spotlight as their father's heir and special little girl.
Also, the kickass Hawke Sisters rule forevah!!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 9, 2019 13:24:47 GMT
Hawke doesn't use spells in Kirkwall's public streets – until the qunari incident. At least doesn't leave eyewitnesses. What are you talking about? "Last of His Line", "Loose Ends" in Meeran path, the prologue where you fight in front of the guards, and as far as I'm concerned all those houses are inhabited, especialy at night
Yeah there's also all those night time thugs to fight as well such as Guardsman pretenders, Followers of She, Sharp Highwaymen and all that. I'd find it hard to believe they've not been spotted at least once or twice using their powers fighting them. The fact tha tthey're fighting thugs and keeping Kirkwall safe is probably why at least for me to make it easier to headcannon why they just leave Hawke alone. Personally I enjoy playing as anything but Mage has always been my favourite way to play in all the DA's though currently playing DA2 as a warrior
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Post by Iddy on Feb 10, 2019 1:46:09 GMT
That's funny, I have it the other way around. Finished once with a dagger rogue, once with a sword'n board warrior, and lost interest in the first half of chapter 1 half a dozen times with mages. And now I'm cruising through the game as a bow rogue, and having a blast. Don't know what it is. A few of the spells are cooler-looking (Cone of Cold is all I want to do all day, though it should probably be renamed Spray of Cold), but most are just lazy and it really stretches my suspension of disbelief for Hawke to be a mage and not arrested within the first hour of the game. And frankly, I just can't stand Carver's attitude. If he was my brother, I'd have beaten the crap out if him to teach him a lesson long ago, just to see if it would stick when nothing else seemed to. I don't see the point of the "Mage Hawke feels more central to the Mage/Templar storyline". S/he isn't. At all. Anders carries that just fine all on his own. Hawke is just... there... when things tend to go down. In my head, Hawke works better as a classic working-class adventurer and glory hound, seeking his/her fortune and getting caught up in events way out of his/her league for mercenary reasons, and because s/he has a lot of unfortunate friends and family, and feels compelled to protect them. Warrior and Rogue both work better for those themes than Mage. I also find the fortune-hunting angle a lot more relatable than fighting for freedom. Before television and movies suddenly convinced us that we all had happiness and glory waiting for us eventually, it was considered every man's responsibility to fight tooth and nail to improve himself, his lot in life and that of those who depended on him. Building and protecting your reputation, making connections and trying your damndest to move up in the world was what life used to be about everywhere. Hawke's story echoes that. In comparison, the "Freedom for Mages!" conflict is pretty hollow, and doesn't do the Templar's side of the debate justice at all. That works better as Anders' pet project/ill-considered crusade which blows up in everybody's face, rather than something Hawke is supposed to have an intrinsic stake in from the get-go beyond protecting his/her sister. The fact that Warriors and Rogues were at Ostagar with Carver appeals to me as well. It's a fairly strong common thread between him/her and the Warden, as well as Loghain if he's still alive and working with Hawke in Inquisition. A rogue Hawke completes the trifecta of Rogue/Warrior/Mage between all the siblings too. And it also helps sell the feeling of each child having a different role in the family. Carver is the hardworking but whiny brat, Bethany is the favored and sheltered - but also better educated - middle child, and Hawke is the more experienced and decisive older brother/sister who stepped up when daddy died because mom was kind of useless. Having Hawke be a mage steals a bit of Bethany's spotlight as their father's heir and special little girl. Also, the kickass Hawke Sisters rule forevah!! Here is the thing, though. Mage Hawke struggles with everything you mentioned and can have the same desires as a mercenary. The only difference is that it is all that, plus the mage freedom issue. The connection with Ostagar is exclusive to rogue/warrior Hawke, though.
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 12, 2019 3:29:53 GMT
That's funny, I have it the other way around. Finished once with a dagger rogue, once with a sword'n board warrior, and lost interest in the first half of chapter 1 half a dozen times with mages. And now I'm cruising through the game as a bow rogue, and having a blast. ... Also, the kickass Hawke Sisters rule forevah!! Here is the thing, though. Mage Hawke struggles with everything you mentioned and can have the same desires as a mercenary. The only difference is that it is all that, plus the mage freedom issue. The connection with Ostagar is exclusive to rogue/warrior Hawke, though. That's debatable. For one thing, too many themes muddled together just feels like shoddy storytelling. And it's not quite obvious to me that trying to make a name for yourself in Kirkwall as an apostate isn't hugely counterproductive. Mage Hawke feels reckless, walking around picking fights with local powerhouses, refusing to let anyone forget she exists, constantly gambling that the wrong eyes won't see her cast spells. That Cullen and Meredith won't press their points too hard with what they know. That a particularly ruthless templar won't just take matters into his own hands and bust through the Amell door in the middle of the night, drag Leandra out into the street in her nightshift and demand Hawke turn herself and Anders in for brownie points with the Knight-Commander. Refusing to keep a low profile under those circumstances is pretty irresponsible, especially out of naked greed and lust for glory, and it makes it hard to realistically play Mage Hawke as a sensible adult who cares about her loved ones and wants the best for them. Because if that was the case then she would just leave for Ostwick instead or move the entire family there. A Rogue or Warrior, on the other hand, can calculate the risks. Leave mage companions - and sister - behind for jobs with too many prying eyes and market her talents without necessarily putting self or family at risk from religious police. And while the Mage Hawke may see her own freedom as at stake in the Mage/Templar conflict, she's kind of already caught up in it on the mages' side. A Warrior or Rogue can actually have an opinion and choose to stand by her free mage friends or support the Circles as necessary institutions, and engage in the debate from the perspective of a productive Thedasian citizen who wants society to remain stable AND people to be reasonably happy and free, and who will have to help figure out how to actually keep that balance, ideally without terrorism or genocide. In a sense, that's a more relevant, complicated and consequential approach to the dilemma than simply being a member of the oppressed and personally deciding whether to fight, flee or endure. And frankly, as a mage who grew up in the country under expert tutoring, totally free and relatively unimpacted by the Templars, powerful and privileged enough never to be forced to consider consorting with demons for survival, and THEN raised to a position of affluence and legal protection, Mage Hawke just isn't a very good representative of what it generally means to be a mage or even an apostate in Thedas.
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Post by Catilina on Feb 12, 2019 3:47:48 GMT
NoxluxeOne question: who wants to be "normal" in Kirkwall? Embrace the madness, and everything gains sense! By the way: right after a bloody mage rebellion, when "everyone fears the mages", a mage can take the Sunburst Throne... who speaks about the logic?
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Post by Iddy on Feb 12, 2019 4:22:39 GMT
Here is the thing, though. Mage Hawke struggles with everything you mentioned and can have the same desires as a mercenary. The only difference is that it is all that, plus the mage freedom issue. The connection with Ostagar is exclusive to rogue/warrior Hawke, though. That's debatable. For one thing, too many themes muddled together just feels like shoddy storytelling. And it's not quite obvious to me that trying to make a name for yourself in Kirkwall as an apostate isn't hugely counterproductive. Mage Hawke feels reckless, walking around picking fights with local powerhouses, refusing to let anyone forget she exists, constantly gambling that the wrong eyes won't see her cast spells. That Cullen and Meredith won't press their points too hard with what they know. That a particularly ruthless templar won't just take matters into his own hands and bust through the Amell door in the middle of the night, drag Leandra out into the street in her nightshift and demand Hawke turn herself and Anders in for brownie points with the Knight-Commander. Refusing to keep a low profile under those circumstances is pretty irresponsible, especially out of naked greed and lust for glory, and it makes it hard to realistically play Mage Hawke as a sensible adult who cares about her loved ones and wants the best for them. Because if that was the case then she would just leave for Ostwick instead or move the entire family there. A Rogue or Warrior, on the other hand, can calculate the risks. Leave mage companions - and sister - behind for jobs with too many prying eyes and market her talents without necessarily putting self or family at risk from religious police. And while the Mage Hawke may see her own freedom as at stake in the Mage/Templar conflict, she's kind of already caught up in it on the mages' side. A Warrior or Rogue can actually have an opinion and choose to stand by her free mage friends or support the Circles as necessary institutions, and engage in the debate from the perspective of a productive Thedasian citizen who wants society to remain stable AND people to be reasonably happy and free, and who will have to help figure out how to actually keep that balance, ideally without terrorism or genocide. In a sense, that's a more relevant, complicated and consequential approach to the dilemma than simply being a member of the oppressed and personally deciding whether to fight, flee or endure. And frankly, as a mage who grew up in the country under expert tutoring, totally free and relatively unimpacted by the Templars, powerful and privileged enough never to be forced to consider consorting with demons for survival, and THEN raised to a position of affluence and legal protection, Mage Hawke just isn't a very good representative of what it generally means to be a mage or even an apostate in Thedas. Those are really good points and I do remember considering some of them in the past. However, one might argue that seeking power doesn't mean loss of protection for mage Hawke. It's just trading one method for another. You can keep a low profile to stay hidden... or become so powerful that nobody can touch you. Tell me, is it usually easier to send a wealthy man to jail or a poor one? And technically, the templars only learn about Hawke being a mage at the end of act 2, when Meredith sees him/her using magic. This is further supported by the fact that only in act 3 do characters start telling Hawke that the templars want him/her in the Circle (Not that they can do anything). I do agree that non-mage Hawke makes for a stronger story, though. Being pro mage freedom is a bigger statement when it isn't really your problem. As for Hawke being too sheltered, I don't think that is entirely fair. Sure, it was nice to be taught by a mage father, but they had to worry about being discovered just like any apostate.
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Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 2,027 Likes: 3,567
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Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
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Noxluxe
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Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 12, 2019 10:59:01 GMT
Those are really good points and I do remember considering some of them in the past. However, one might argue that seeking power doesn't mean loss of protection for mage Hawke. It's just trading one method for another. You can keep a low profile to stay hidden... or become so powerful that nobody can touch you. Tell me, is it usually easier to send a wealthy man to jail or a poor one? And technically, the templars only learn about Hawke being a mage at the end of act 2, when Meredith sees him/her using magic. This is further supported by the fact that only in act 3 do characters start telling Hawke that the templars want him/her in the Circle (Not that they can do anything). I do agree that non-mage Hawke makes for a stronger story, though. Being pro mage freedom is a bigger statement when it isn't really your problem. Afluence being a powerful protection from the law is unquestionable. I'm not so sure it applies to this though. Meredith's Chantry-granted powers technically supersede Hawke's civil rights, so she can haul him/her in anytime she wants to if she decides that that's what needs to be done. And she did kill the previous ruler of the city to enforce her politics, laws, rights or public relations be damned. I wouldn't count on a title to protect me from that kind of zeal, and I sure wouldn't make a point of keeping my name in the headlines every other day. I also wouldn't say that mage freedom isn't the average Thedasian's problem. If your neighbor could spontaneously decide to turn into a reality-warping demon on a really bad day, or your only child had been hauled into a prison patrolled by sex-starved armed men in face-concealing helmets never again to see the sun, or you'd lost an arm to gangrene from a wound that your healer cousin could have fixed in a moment if he wasn't locked away, I'd bet a pretty penny that you would have a stance on the issue as well.
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