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Post by Reznore on Jun 30, 2018 2:17:57 GMT
I'd be happier if it was a recent change in-universe, as opposed to just retconning it or claiming that the locals have been calling it something different when they.... clearly haven't, given how often it's been referred to as Qarinus. It's a bit like someone overthought the whole thing, and created a problem when there was none. Oh well, the DA setting has to have its random quirks.
Now I'm waiting for the Npc in DA4 who will explain us "This town was never called Qarinus.It's an antiquated name no one ever used. Actually it was a term designating the town square but never the town itself ! and blablablabla" I think I may cry a bit.
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Post by lynroy on Jun 30, 2018 4:08:32 GMT
I'm just jazzed to be getting something new.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 30, 2018 4:54:14 GMT
A Ventus is a Ventus is a Qarinus
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Post by Fredward on Jun 30, 2018 6:09:49 GMT
Yeah the premise really has my attention and actress-turned-con-artist has me more interested in this comic protag than any of the previous ones.
Not to mention it seems to be fully set in Tevinter.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 30, 2018 9:18:01 GMT
I'd be happier if it was a recent change in-universe, as opposed to just retconning it or claiming that the locals have been calling it something different when they.... clearly haven't, given how often it's been referred to as Qarinus. Let's hope Patrick Weekes got it wrong and it hasn't been a decades old change. Even so, given Dorian's insistence about how much store his people place on their past and are dedicated to preserving it, changing the name that has been used since antiquity for a city that was capital of a tribe of people and a kingdom of the same name, seems like something that they wouldn't do simply to celebrate a victory in the Ventosus Straits. Why not change the name of the port city of Carastes which has less ancient connections? I'd love to know who exactly are all these people who were confused by the name? People who are interested in the lore who play the game don't seem to have had a problem with it up to now. People who aren't interested in the lore probably don't pay much attention to place names anyway.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 30, 2018 9:23:08 GMT
Also, I assume that Olivia is not claiming to be a native of Tevinter because Pryde is a very un-Tevene sounding name so is not something you would use if you were trying to assume the identity of a native. Or is it a stage name?
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 30, 2018 9:24:16 GMT
I'd be happier if it was a recent change in-universe, as opposed to just retconning it or claiming that the locals have been calling it something different when they.... clearly haven't, given how often it's been referred to as Qarinus. Let's hope Patrick Weekes got it wrong and it hasn't been a decades old change. Even so, given Dorian's insistence about how much store his people place on their past and are dedicated to preserving it, changing the name that has been used since antiquity for a city that was capital of a tribe of people and a kingdom of the same name, seems like something that they wouldn't do simply to celebrate a victory in the Ventosus Straits. Why not change the name of the port city of Carastes which has less ancient connections? I'd love to know who exactly are all these people who were confused by the name? People who are interested in the lore who play the game don't seem to have had a problem with it up to now. People who aren't interested in the lore probably don't pay much attention to place names anyway. It matters if it becomes a bigger part of the games - most people would have barely noticed Qarinus from the stuff we've had released, plus the change sounds like it came from feedback. If they pushed Qarinus to a larger part of say a new game and the issue kept coming back in feedback, then it's something they might have to change as it now doesn't just affect those who are really into lore but those playing the game including newbies (I'm willing to bet it was new people who'd never played before and both the terms Qunari and Qarinus were new). Devs have to design for everyine including those new to the series - DAI had alot of people new to the series going by the numbers, it might not be that surprising if DA4 did too.
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Post by MediocreOgre on Jun 30, 2018 15:14:20 GMT
I'd be happier if it was a recent change in-universe, as opposed to just retconning it or claiming that the locals have been calling it something different when they.... clearly haven't, given how often it's been referred to as Qarinus. It's a bit like someone overthought the whole thing, and created a problem when there was none. Oh well, the DA setting has to have its random quirks.
Now I'm waiting for the Npc in DA4 who will explain us "This town was never called Qarinus.It's an antiquated name no one ever used. Actually it was a term designating the town square but never the town itself ! and blablablabla" I think I may cry a bit.
To me the “it sound like Qunari” is such a pessimistic reason, to assume your fan base is easily confused. If so we should change Cumberland because cousland is similar. That said i’m Excited for anything DA in this drought of content.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 30, 2018 16:39:34 GMT
Also, I assume that Olivia is not claiming to be a native of Tevinter because Pryde is a very un-Tevene sounding name so is not something you would use if you were trying to assume the identity of a native. Or is it a stage name? My first thought was that it was a stage name. Mostly it just makes me think of Kitty Pryde. Which is not a bad association at all.
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Post by Reznore on Jun 30, 2018 18:11:20 GMT
City name drama aside, it's nice to have a comic taking place in Tevinter. The Knight comic was alright, way better than Broody and Snarky adventures. Not sure how I feel about the cover, the pompadour wig ( not sure it's the correct term) doesn't evoke Tevinter. Probably some actor stuff like the name, but I'm still not over the Archon dressed like a cosplayer gone wrong in past comics. Orlesians looking goofy is ok. But Tevinter looking goofy hurts mah feelings.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 30, 2018 18:30:42 GMT
According to WoT2, the Pavus estate is also located right outside Qarinus (now Ventus) so maybe Dorian and his political faction will play a role? Well, Dorian was already in one comic book (where we see him interact and somewhat mend bridges with another Tevene, also featured in the most recent comic book). Given all that, plus everything they've been setting up in DA and Trespasser that suggests Dorian's deep involvement with future events I'd say I'm going to be quite surprised if we WON'T be seeing Dorian... or at the very least have him mentioned somewhere.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 30, 2018 18:33:09 GMT
City name drama aside, it's nice to have a comic taking place in Tevinter. The Knight comic was alright, way better than Broody and Snarky adventures. Not sure how I feel about the cover, the pompadour wig ( not sure it's the correct term) doesn't evoke Tevinter. Probably some actor stuff like the name, but I'm still not over the Archon dressed like a cosplayer gone wrong in past comics. Orlesians looking goofy is ok. But Tevinter looking goofy hurts mah feelings. But... the preferred type of garment among Tevinter nobility appears to be goth goofy.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 30, 2018 18:38:19 GMT
Orlesians looking goofy is ok We don't know the origins of the character on the cover but if it is Olivia it is possible it is simply a stage costume, may be she was doing a parody of Orlais; I imagine that would go down well in Tevinter. But... the preferred type of garment among Tevinter nobility appears to be goth goofy. You mean: I have to admit I was intensely disappointed when I discovered the preferred colour scheme among the Altus was black. Then along came Alexius, Felix, and Servis in their court jester get up that wasn't much better. However, Dorian gives hope that at least some of the people we shall meet will be both colourful and stylish.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 30, 2018 18:43:20 GMT
But... the preferred type of garment among Tevinter nobility appears to be goth goofy. You mean: I have to admit I was intensely disappointed when I discovered the preferred colour scheme among the Altus was black. Then along came Alexius, Felix, and Servis in their court jester get up that wasn't much better. However, Dorian gives hope that at least some of the people we shall meet will be both colourful and stylish. From WOT2: "Magic rules in the Imperium, and their clothing reflects this. Dark robes, hoods and light armor are commonplace in Tevinter. Some of it is practical, allowing the movement necessary to cast spells while protecting from an odd blade edge. Still, Tevinter nobles are not above impractical, sharing some of the Orlesian love for fabric volume, if not color."
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Post by Gilli on Jun 30, 2018 18:54:37 GMT
My opinion about the name change. First I was "Qarinus and Qunari don't sound alike at all", but thinking about it, I can see how it could be confusing for people. Let me give you an example. Where I live there are two cities with a nearly identical name, Dietikon and Dietlikon. It's only one letter difference and many many people confuse their names. Hell, even I have always to check "Do you mean Diet ikon, or Diet likon?", so it's not like it only happens to people who are not familiar with both cities. <-- even Google got confused when I was looking for the Diet ikon sign and gave me first the Diet likon sign. If it makes the DA universe more accessible to more people (who then won't be confused by a horned race/religion and a city) then I have no problems with the name change. That said I'm very hyped for the new comic and can't wait for them to announce the Trade. Yeah, but there's one letter between DIETLIKON and DIETLI LKON, Gilli. Of course that confuses people. "Qunari" and "Qarinus" don't even the same phonetically. Sound it out: KAR-RIN-US. KOO-NARR-EEE. And they replaced it with the incredibly lazy "Ventus." BLECH, I say. BLECH! "Of course that confuses people" I've seen people misspell Qunari as "Quanari" before. Just as I've seen people misspell Vivienne as "Vivianne" or "Vivian" and Leliana as "Liliana" or "Lilliana" <-- even from people who romanced Leliana. Quiet, Quit and Quite don't sound the same either and I still keep getting confused how to spell them right. --- I just tested my parents how they would read/pronounce Qarinus. They have no idea about Dragon Age, which is exactly why I went to them.Me: How would you read this? *shows a piece of paper with Qarinus written on it* Mom: Karinus. But it's missing an U. Me: Why? Mom: Because after Q comes always an U.
Me: How would you read this? *shows a piece of paper with Qarinus written on it* Dad: Quarinus. Me: Why? Dad: Because it's a Q. I really don't want to drag this argument any further, all I wanted was to state my opinion.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 30, 2018 19:07:20 GMT
I kind of hope Mae appears in this comic, especially since it seems to take place in Qarinus Ventus. We haven't seen her in a comic since Those Who Sleep.
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Post by Fredward on Jun 30, 2018 19:48:14 GMT
Kindly take your sanctimonious gatekeeping (if you were a REAL DA fan you'd hurl your cereal everywhere because THEY CHANGED THE NAME OF A CITY) and put it back where you found it [further location redacted] There's no need to be so offensive. I am a real DA fan and I've paid good money for an awful lot of products that have been produced to supplement the games. I am not the only person who gets a little fed up when it seems that the information in those products can be changed in this way So it doesn't matter to you. Fine, but don't insult other people simply because it does and they have wished to express that view. Yeah, sorry I was hangry when I wrote that. It's a name change to a city that's been largely irrelevant lorewise with no knock on consequences that I can see. ~shrug~ Largely irrelevant? It’s not some backwater in the Free Marches. Outside of Minrathous, it’s the second-most prominent name in Tevinter, being one of the three founding kingdoms. Dorian is from Qarinus, as is Maevaris Tilani. The first issue of Those Who Speak is set there and the name has come up in DAI as part of a war table operation. Yeah, and? It still is that city, it still has that history. They changed a name, not the content and context the name refers to. If we’re changing names to accommodate people who confuse certain terms, why don’t we drop Rogue as one of the three classes and rename it Rouge? That's an entirely incoherent example. Rouge and rogue both mean something, very different thing. The terms have content and swapping them confuses the contents. That's not the case here since nothing but the name changes, they're not replacing Qarinus with Denerim.
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Post by melbella on Jun 30, 2018 20:08:13 GMT
Yeah, but there's one letter between DIETLIKON and DIETLI LKON, Gilli. Of course that confuses people. "Qunari" and "Qarinus" don't even the same phonetically. Sound it out: KAR-RIN-US. KOO-NARR-EEE. And they replaced it with the incredibly lazy "Ventus." BLECH, I say. BLECH! "Of course that confuses people" I've seen people misspell Qunari as "Quanari" before. Just as I've seen people misspell Vivienne as "Vivianne" or "Vivian" and Leliana as "Liliana" or "Lilliana" <-- even from people who romanced Leliana. Quiet, Quit and Quite don't sound the same either and I still keep getting confused how to spell them right. --- I just tested my parents how they would read/pronounce Qarinus. They have no idea about Dragon Age, which is exactly why I went to them.Me: How would you read this? *shows a piece of paper with Qarinus written on it* Mom: Karinus. But it's missing an U. Me: Why? Mom: Because after Q comes always an U.
Me: How would you read this? *shows a piece of paper with Qarinus written on it* Dad: Quarinus. Me: Why? Dad: Because it's a Q. I really don't want to drag this argument any further, all I wanted was to state my opinion.
But, knowing how to pronounce something and knowing what it is aren't the same thing. Hell, sometimes you may know what something is by looking at it, but have no idea what it's even called.
If you had told your parents that Qarinus is a city, then presented them with the word, "Qunari," would they have thought it was the same thing? I doubt it.
As I mentioned elsewhere, maybe by "everyone," Patrick Weekes meant "everyone at Bioware"?
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 30, 2018 20:23:54 GMT
There's no need to be so offensive. I am a real DA fan and I've paid good money for an awful lot of products that have been produced to supplement the games. I am not the only person who gets a little fed up when it seems that the information in those products can be changed in this way So it doesn't matter to you. Fine, but don't insult other people simply because it does and they have wished to express that view. Yeah, sorry I was hangry when I wrote that. Largely irrelevant? It’s not some backwater in the Free Marches. Outside of Minrathous, it’s the second-most prominent name in Tevinter, being one of the three founding kingdoms. Dorian is from Qarinus, as is Maevaris Tilani. The first issue of Those Who Speak is set there and the name has come up in DAI as part of a war table operation. Yeah, and? It still is that city, it still has that history. They changed a name, not the content and context the name refers to. If we’re changing names to accommodate people who confuse certain terms, why don’t we drop Rogue as one of the three classes and rename it Rouge? That's an entirely incoherent example. Rouge and rogue both mean something, very different thing. The terms have content and swapping them confuses the contents. That's not the case here since nothing but the name changes, they're not replacing Qarinus with Denerim. Yea, I'm not sure why some people seem to be reacting to the change as if: a.) they retconned it in a way that suggests that Quarinus was never a name for the place (they didn't; seems to be a relatively recent thing and it's just realistic for old name to still be in use or displayed in older documents, especially those outside of Imperium. It's not like updates were easy to do on a level of technology present in Thedas) b.) didn't seem to give lore reason to do so (they did)
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 30, 2018 20:49:19 GMT
Yea, I'm not sure why some people seem to be reacting to the change as if: a.) they retconned it in a way that suggests that Quarinus was never a name for the place (they didn't; seems to be a relatively recent thing and it's just realistic for old name to still be in use or displayed in older documents, especially those outside of Imperium. It's not like updates were easy to do on a level of technology present in Thedas) b.) didn't seem to give lore reason to do so (they did) Except you're ignoring the fact that their actual reason for the change is because they think people will be confused. That is completely meta and has nothing whatsoever to do with lore. Because they wanted to make this lame change, they then devised a lame lore excuse to make it work and accommodate the change. And yes, I'm sympathetic to new players... to a degree. At some point, they have to be left to fend for themselves in service of the greater story or product (the game itself). Too much coddling makes for a lesser product. We're not talking about some tutorials or levels of combat difficulty, but a change in the lore. Do we need to spend each game explaining about mages and templars and abominations and the Chant of Light and Andraste and casteless and Dalish and alienages and on and ON? No. We don't expect the devs to accommodate new players in that way, nor should they. I jumped right into Skyrim, despite having never played an ES game before and knowing nothing about the lore; I muddled through just fine. I played MEA despite never having played any of the other ME games and knowing nothing about that lore -- the races, the genophage, etc -- and still managed to follow along. At this point, judging by responses, there is nothing the two factions -- those who don't care about the change vs those that do -- can say that will end in agreement or acceptance. I will still think of it as Qarinus and think this whole thing is stupid. Nothing will change my opinion.
[edit] And you know what would help new players the most? Not introducing characters and events in ancillary materials (comics, novels) that new players will have no knowledge of when playing the next game. But I guess they don't care about that sort of confusion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 30, 2018 21:24:52 GMT
I'm looking forward to this comic. I've enjoyed the previous two, especially Knight Errant, so I'm sure this will at least be enjoyable. I'm curious if any of the previous comic characters will show up. Mae is from Tevinter, Vaea and Aaron are heading towards Tevinter, and Marius and Tessa have experience in Tevinter. It'll be interesting to see if and how it ties between Inquisition, the comics, and DA4. As for Olivia, I wonder if she will be a mage since Tevinter uses magic in their performances. Also it would be interesting to see a rogue-like character be a class other than a rogue, especially if she will be a companion as well. In all the games so far we haven't had non-rogues be like rogues, just some rogues be like non-rogues. As for the name controversy,
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 30, 2018 21:57:34 GMT
Yea, I'm not sure why some people seem to be reacting to the change as if: a.) they retconned it in a way that suggests that Quarinus was never a name for the place (they didn't; seems to be a relatively recent thing and it's just realistic for old name to still be in use or displayed in older documents, especially those outside of Imperium. It's not like updates were easy to do on a level of technology present in Thedas) b.) didn't seem to give lore reason to do so (they did) Except you're ignoring the fact that their actual reason for the change is because they think people will be confused. That is completely meta and has nothing whatsoever to do with lore. Because they wanted to make this lame change, they then devised a lame lore excuse to make it work and accommodate the change. I was talking about how it was done rather than why. And changes in lore or narratives, especially in large, continuous series are made all the time - from 'lame' to less' lame' reasons. Okay,... how is a name change of a city resulting in a lesser product? It's definitely a way less impactful change than retconning Leliana's optional death, and somehow I don't think people think that the result is 'coddling'. From what I've seen people enjoyed Leliana's presence in the game quite a bit and I bet most people will be entirely alright with a change of the city name, especially if lore reason is given and found plausible (which it is). All they really need to do is give us a lorebook/codex - "Ventus, previously known as Qarinus, with the change made to commemorate a significant victory nearby". And nothing in the lore is ruined, for either hardcore or new players. At best it can be questioned how is it that in the narrative the name Ventus ain't used, but considering that the change is relatively recent and most of the story is told from the perspective of Southerners (or those who interact with Southerners like Dorian) it's not really that unbelievable to think they'd use old name instead. Like I said - they didn't make a sudden lore change where the previous name is somehow invalid. It WAS Qarinus up until fairly recent. Um, what does it matter whether characters or events are introduced in comics and novels or previous games? From new player's perspective, all of those are things that happened outside of the game they're playing. I mean... I began my adventure with DA3 and I wasn't really that confused about stuff, they gave enough of an explanation in-game. It's when I wanted to bite into details or gain deeper understanding when I had to grab stuff released prior to DAI, which is a different thing from not differentiating between Qunari and Qarinus. Also - how do you know that players will have no knowledge of characters or events when playing the next game? Do you have access to DA4 we don't know about that you know how linked or not linked current ancillary material will be to the game?
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Post by MediocreOgre on Jun 30, 2018 22:46:00 GMT
If we grant that Qarinus is confused for Qunari..... why not change it to Karinus or Cuarinos or whatever instead of Ventus after Ventosus? It all sounds convoluted. But whatever.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 30, 2018 22:46:45 GMT
And nothing in the lore is ruined Don't put words in my mouth. Also - how do you know that players will have no knowledge of characters or events when playing the next game? Do you have access to DA4 we don't know about that you know how linked or not linked current ancillary material will be to the game? This is disingenuous on your part and you know it. Both Asunder and The Masked Empire had content that was used in DAI. While I don't agree (as I'm fine basing my RP choice on in-game material), some players feel it is essential to have read TME before playing the game. While it's true that we can't say for certain, most people that follow the series agree that the path these comics have been taking is related to the next game and that it's likely we'll be seeing one or more of these new characters. Don't act like that's not the common view in the fandom, which has been borne out by the actual history of the franchise.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 30, 2018 22:57:11 GMT
And nothing in the lore is ruined Don't put words in my mouth. Also - how do you know that players will have no knowledge of characters or events when playing the next game? Do you have access to DA4 we don't know about that you know how linked or not linked current ancillary material will be to the game? This is disingenuous on your part and you know it. Both Asunder and The Masked Empire had content that was used in DAI. While I don't agree (as I'm fine basing my RP choice on in-game material), some players feel it is essential to have read TME before playing the game. While it's true that we can't say for certain, most people that follow the series agree that the path these comics have been taking is related to the next game and that it's likely we'll be seeing one or more of these new characters. Don't act like that's not the common view in the fandom, which has been borne out by the actual history of the franchise. Why would introducing new characters in ancillary material be a problem for new players - everything is new to them, it's old fans that don't read the ancillary material that get annoyed. They are two different issues, I'm not sure why you brought it up? Edit: I would also question how they would know the extra material exists in the first place given they are new to the series and wouldn't even know the previous games...
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