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Post by shechinah on Jul 4, 2018 23:38:14 GMT
1. I don't think Dorian will be a companion either. I see him as I said being one of the adviser-tier characters, maybe less if Maevaris fills that role since then she is our connection to him. Meanwhile the Inquisitor was my favorite Bioware protagonist, and Trespasser really made it where if anybody else other than them is the protagonist then that would be a terrible idea and harm the story. And sure, have new characters but make sure each character's story is wrapped up first before moving on to the next one. They still have a lot that differentiates themselves from each other. We've had characters who have similar personalities and work for the same people before and yet they are still vastly different characters. 2. Calpernia did everything she did willingly. The fact she served Corypheus isn't an excuse, especially when unlike some others she wasn't completely controlled by him. As for freeing slaves, funny since her group used countless slaves for their missions so she is just being a hypocrite and is no better than the system she supposedly wants to change. And no, I don't think she deserves a second chance. She and her faction caused the death or suffering of thousands to tens of thousands of people, and she did so willingly. Those people are far beyond redemption and the only thing they deserve is a punishment fitting of those crimes. 3. The only thing they had in common in DA2 was the voice and a kind of similar appearance. A lot more of her character, what made her the person she is, came from the movie. 1. I think Dorian would be best served as an advisor since he's already had his shot as a companion. He's also a magister now so he falls into the same field of issues that I've mentioned in regards to the idea of Maevaris as a companion.
Interestingly, I was actually quite alright with the idea of the Inquisitor not appearing in Dragon Age 4... until Trespasser, that is. Prior to it, the Inquisitor and their associates had no knowledge of Solas' true identity nor his motives so although I would have liked to see their relationship come into play, I could see a plausible excuse for why they wouldn't be involved. Trespasser, however, not only made the Inquisitor aware of Solas' real agenda but also played up their relationship angle and set up a new dynamic to it. While I still prefer a new protagonist because it allows for the conflict and Tevinter to be viewed through a new pair of eyes, I do want the Inquisitor to feature in some playable capacity hence why I've been a big supporter of the dual protagonist idea. I admit that might not be financially feasible and so I'm also in favor of the Inquisitor appearing as a playable character for some part of the finale where they are able to have their moment with Solas and see it through to the idea. They might not necessarily be the one to ultimately decide his fate and (and I think it would interesting if they aren't) but the very least, they should have a conversational moment with him. Once again, I cannot stress the importance of the playable angle. If it's not possible for the Inquisitor to be playable then I don't want them to appear because it's liable to turn what could be an awesome and emotional moment into… something that is neither.
2. I'm relatively indifferent to Calpernia (although my feelings would be subject to change if she was implemented as a companion) but I do agree. I don't believe we saw any indication that she was not acting on her own volition or that she did have sufficient oversight over the Venatori to be aware of their doings. I'd say she's proven herself the hypocrite. It would be one thing if she targeted people who she felt had contributed or was in some other way, maintaining the status quo of slavery but the Venatori enslaves people out of convenience without really caring who they are and then there's the Red Lyrium experiments like on the poor townspeople in Emprise de Lion. Calpernia essentially made herself into someone who is just as horrible as the magisters of Tevinter in the way that she disregards the lives of others and uses them to further her own ends. I think this is a large part of why she ends up being a case of the Unintentional Unsympathetic trope to me. When you reached the point where you are enslaving people, shoving them into cages and force-feeding them a substance that inflicts horrific pains and mutations upon them, you've kind of reach the point where I go: "Oh, cry me a river." at any sob story you might present. The only exception is if your perception of reality has been warped to such an extent that you don't perceive what you are doing and your sob story explains but even then, you're still going to have to be stopped. And again, I don't recall seeing any indication that Calpernia is not aware of what she's doing.
3. I don't know. I feel DA2 did showcase some of her traits. For example, Varric points out that she seems to have a bit of a hero worship concerning Hawke, indicating the romantic in her. There's also her skepticism (or is it cynicism?) when she notes that Hawke dueling the Arishok in single combat sounds made up. It has been a while since I saw the movie though. To be honest, I don't think I could sit through it with a straight face. I haven't been able to think about it seriously ever since me and my friend riffed on it together. Now ever time I see the scene where Cassandra's brother is killed, I can't help but think back to the jokes we made about how Cassandra should be prejudiced against farming tools instead of mages because her brother was technically killed by a scythe. One wielded by a mage but still a scythe. There's also the infamous scene of the army of golems and ogres.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 4, 2018 23:40:17 GMT
Nice to see a new DA story. Tevinter is coming (sometime... ). I do love the style of covers that they use for these comics. They may be non-indicative of their contents but they feel distinctive and are quite pleasing to the eye both in style but also in color.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 4, 2018 23:42:23 GMT
Your character knows what Calpernia has done and is forced to work with her even though to many players, it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. And why would the character know? They could be some random schmuck that gets recruited and never have heard of Calpernia before. Not even all players are guaranteed to know. The majority play the game a single time and move on. Many of those who didn't get deeper into the fandom might not know anything about her at all if they took the In Hushed Whispers path.
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Post by shechinah on Jul 4, 2018 23:56:05 GMT
Your character knows what Calpernia has done and is forced to work with her even though to many players, it wouldn't make sense for them to do so. And why would the character know? They could be some random schmuck that gets recruited and never have heard of Calpernia before. Not even all players are guaranteed to know. The majority play the game a single time and move on. Many of those who didn't get deeper into the fandom might not know anything about her at all if they took the In Hushed Whispers path. This example would apply in a scenario in which the player character is working for the Inquisition who are aware of Calpernia and would likely inform an asset expected to work with her of what she has done including to prevent her from being able to provide said asset with a selective account intended to entice sympathy and thereby make them more susceptible to manipulations by her.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 5, 2018 0:09:09 GMT
3. I think Maevaris would serve better in an advisor role because of her Magister status and power. She might occasionally step into the field but I feel Maevaris' presence as a companion would "break" too many scenarios unless it was limited where she could go. Example: Why would a bunch of thugs challenge a player character if they are accompanied by a magister? Even if the thugs don't know what's who she is, they know she must be someone of importance and power. Example: Maevaris would have to be low level which would not make sense for a magister. Solas being weak had an explanation in that it was apparently due to having been asleep for so many and so he had to gradually regain his power over time. No, I feel Maevaris would be best as an advisor which would also allow her character to shine without limiting her usage and power. Then when she appears, we would have a real show of a Tevinter magister with all the power and flair that title implies. This is actually a good point I hadn't thought of. Yeah unless all our companions are going to be the best of the best again like with Inquisition then Maevaris being that weak or unknown would go against her character. I could see her just being an advisor who maybe joins on a couple missions in combat, similar to Leliana or Cullen.
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Post by lynroy on Jul 6, 2018 13:57:08 GMT
So, will all those weapons actually fit inside that wig?
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Post by Walter Black on Jul 10, 2018 13:52:53 GMT
Calpernia is no Saint but Monster? Come on Corypheus used her. Her actual attitude is from a chaotic good person who was misleaded.
She wants to free the Slaves and reform Tevinter. Dorian also wants that. But he wasn´t fooled by Corypheus. Also don´t you think that Calpernia deserved a second chance? In the past, Hanako has shown a history of rejecting darker characters being able change for the better; Calpernia, Solas, Blackwall, Loghain, Jack, not even"grey" characters like Iron Bull or Sera are worth saving. People having layers, different context from tramatic pasts where they might not have had access to the same knowledge and/or choices? Phagh! You are either paragon of virtue, or a baby eating monster ! A is A, and cannot be B without ceasing to be A! I have asked the why of Hanako's issues with the concept of redemption several times before, and never got a straight answer.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 11, 2018 18:33:09 GMT
Personally I was hoping for Charter as a nonsexual LI, however I wonder where her loyalties lie in the end. Charter has been shown to be in a relationship with Tessa from the comics, started in Magekiller and shown still together in Knight Errant (by a different team!). I'd prefer they not destroy that just to give the players a romance option. I think it would actually be fun to have an NPC pairing that was an established couple; it allows the writers to explore some different dynamics, AND they can have a positive f/f NPC relationship (that is not dependent on player choice).
Is your question about loyalty just because she's an elf (relating to the whole Solas thing)? I don't think that's quite fair. She has never shown to be anything less than completely loyal to the Inquisition and was personally groomed by Leliana as her replacement.
I think there will be a large number of elves that aren't going to blindly follow Solas, and with good reason. We know that Solas is using the modern day elves for his own devious reasons and they have no function in the new/old world he hopes to create/recreate. They are as dead to him as humans are, once he gets what he is working for.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 11, 2018 20:45:27 GMT
I think there will be a large number of elves that aren't going to blindly follow Solas, and with good reason. We know that Solas is using the modern day elves for his own devious reasons and they have no function in the new/old world he hopes to create/recreate. They are as dead to him as humans are, once he gets what he is working for. The thing is how much will the ordinary alienage elf know about his real plans? According to the epilogue in Trespasser only those people who believed the Inquisitor's story are even questioning what he is up to. There were after all no witnesses to the confrontation. It would seem that many people prefer not to believe the story or at the most think he is just some crazy apostate. He seems to do a lot of his work through agents. So I can see it working a bit like a modern day cult with him being presented as a sort of messiah figure to the downtrodden city elves and that is why they will get sucked in. Naturally they are not going to be told that at the end of it they are all going to die. Look how it was with Felassan and the elves he associated with. He used the Dalish clan and then abandoned them to their fate. He was just using Briala and then at some point he began to admire her and so went against orders, paying the price with Solas. I wonder if even he truly knew what Solas was planning with the orb? From what Solas says his task was to gain control of the eluvian network but may be even Felassan had no idea why. It strikes me that Solas is someone who shares very little even with his allies and friends, probably because he has trust issues.
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Post by MarilynRobert on Jul 11, 2018 21:53:16 GMT
I think there will be a large number of elves that aren't going to blindly follow Solas, and with good reason. We know that Solas is using the modern day elves for his own devious reasons and they have no function in the new/old world he hopes to create/recreate. They are as dead to him as humans are, once he gets what he is working for. The thing is how much will the ordinary alienage elf know about his real plans? According to the epilogue in Trespasser only those people who believed the Inquisitor's story are even questioning what he is up to. There were after all no witnesses to the confrontation. It would seem that many people prefer not to believe the story or at the most think he is just some crazy apostate. He seems to do a lot of his work through agents. So I can see it working a bit like a modern day cult with him being presented as a sort of messiah figure to the downtrodden city elves and that is why they will get sucked in. Naturally they are not going to be told that at the end of it they are all going to die. Look how it was with Felassan and the elves he associated with. He used the Dalish clan and then abandoned them to their fate. He was just using Briala and then at some point he began to admire her and so went against orders, paying the price with Solas. I wonder if even he truly knew what Solas was planning with the orb? From what Solas says his task was to gain control of the eluvian network but may be even Felassan had no idea why. It strikes me that Solas is someone who shares very little even with his allies and friends, probably because he has trust issues. I agree with the things that you say especially because so many of the elves have been persecuted for generations and have nothing or very little hope of bettering their lives so it'd be easy to grasp on to the words or rumors of this person who offers so much. Still, I'm hoping that there will be elves who have enough distrust any anyone, because of the persecuted lives they have led, that they will question what Solas says (or whatever they know of this new revolution) and not be willing to join. What's coming makes me so sad for the elves and if things go the way Solas wants them to go, he's a really cruel being. He has already hurt so many and he's willing to hurt and wipe out more.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 11, 2018 23:12:04 GMT
I agree with the things that you say especially because so many of the elves have been persecuted for generations and have nothing or very little hope of bettering their lives so it'd be easy to grasp on to the words or rumors of this person who offers so much. Still, I'm hoping that there will be elves who have enough distrust any anyone, because of the persecuted lives they have led, that they will question that Solas (or whatever they know of this new revolution) and not be willing to join. What's coming makes me so sad for the elves and if things go the way Solas wants them to go, he's a really cruel being. He has already hurt so many and he's willing to hurt and wipe out more. That assumes a lot about Solas's plans or intentions towards elves that we can't really know yet. In fact, we can't even be sure whether Southern elves have set out to join him or if there's anything that he specifically offered them.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 11, 2018 23:23:00 GMT
I think there will be a large number of elves that aren't going to blindly follow Solas, and with good reason. We know that Solas is using the modern day elves for his own devious reasons and they have no function in the new/old world he hopes to create/recreate. They are as dead to him as humans are, once he gets what he is working for. The thing is how much will the ordinary alienage elf know about his real plans? According to the epilogue in Trespasser only those people who believed the Inquisitor's story are even questioning what he is up to. There were after all no witnesses to the confrontation. It would seem that many people prefer not to believe the story or at the most think he is just some crazy apostate. He seems to do a lot of his work through agents. So I can see it working a bit like a modern day cult with him being presented as a sort of messiah figure to the downtrodden city elves and that is why they will get sucked in. Naturally they are not going to be told that at the end of it they are all going to die. Look how it was with Felassan and the elves he associated with. He used the Dalish clan and then abandoned them to their fate. He was just using Briala and then at some point he began to admire her and so went against orders, paying the price with Solas. I wonder if even he truly knew what Solas was planning with the orb? From what Solas says his task was to gain control of the eluvian network but may be even Felassan had no idea why. It strikes me that Solas is someone who shares very little even with his allies and friends, probably because he has trust issues. Oh, I bet the trust issues are basically the biggest elephant in the room here. He couldn't make himself share his secrets even with someone he cares about and makes enough comments about learning not to trust even closest allies/friends to suggest that he must've experienced some pretty severe backstabbing at some point. So... better safe than sorry, I guess? Still... the guy either has some sort of plan that includes Inquisition going after him or just can't help himself to not tell someone because... well... this is basically what happened in Trespasser. He even informs of his plans the person who explicitly stated that they have no interest with hearing him talk... ever
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 12, 2018 7:47:37 GMT
Still... the guy either has some sort of plan that includes Inquisition going after him or just can't help himself to not tell someone because... well... this is basically what happened in Trespasser. He even informs of his plans the person who explicitly stated that they have no interest with hearing him talk... ever This was something of a puzzle I'll admit. It sort of feeds into the idea that really he wants someone to stop him, so implying that maybe he is under some sort of geas which means he has to keep going no matter what. However, in contradiction of that idea is him saying to a friendly Inquisitor that he doesn't want to give them too much information. Although I suppose even that could tie in with a geas. I suppose that is why Solas is such an interesting antagonist because he is something of an enigma even though we spent an entire game with him as a companion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 12, 2018 7:58:19 GMT
That assumes a lot about Solas's plans or intentions towards elves that we can't really know yet. In fact, we can't even be sure whether Southern elves have set out to join him or if there's anything that he specifically offered them. Well the end of Trespasser has elves across the south leaving their posts and the picture shows them trekking into the woods, presumably to some gathering point. If these were just his agents then his network of spies must have been bigger than we thought. Were they all ancient elves, like Felassan? I imagine he is going to have agents working in Tevinter as well, if nothing else to identify and counter the agents of the Qun, who are likely working among the slaves and liberati to undermine the Tevinter war effort. However, I think the epilogue implied it was not just Solas' agents but elves generally flocking to join him. There are also the words of Maryden's song, Mercy for the Elves. "When the slightest unite then a giant will rise." Which is also an interesting thought. Is that a metaphorical giant as in the united army of elves, or a literal giant in the form of a Titan?
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 12, 2018 10:13:22 GMT
This was something of a puzzle I'll admit. It sort of feeds into the idea that really he wants someone to stop him, so implying that maybe he is under some sort of geas which means he has to keep going no matter what. However, in contradiction of that idea is him saying to a friendly Inquisitor that he doesn't want to give them too much information. Although I suppose even that could tie in with a geas. I suppose that is why Solas is such an interesting antagonist because he is something of an enigma even though we spent an entire game with him as a companion. Personally, I'm not much into the geas theory - Solas appears to be compelled to act due to circumstances he's found himself in and his own sense of guilt (and whatever he knows that we don't... yet), while him blabbing about his plan to Inquisitor seems indicative of his deep internal conflict. Not saying everything there is to his plan, IMO, is him being cautious enough - he wants to have enough of wiggle room in case everything he still has the faintest faith in fails. True - but we don't yet know whether it's not a red herring (something we know Bioware does from time to time). We do know that after ToM (yet before Solas snatches Mythal's power) the elf in Val Royeaux dreams about someone calling herself Mythal. We do know there are strange elves with red vallaslins and resembling Sentinels that are living deep in Tirashan forest, and we can have reasonable suspicion that Solas ain't' the only ancient elvhen being that may be scheming towards an unknown end (Geldauran's Claim).
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Post by IllustriousT on Jul 12, 2018 13:37:03 GMT
I will say that while I'm excited for new material as always, most of the recent comics have been "Meh" with good bits. I tend to feel I need to keep up with all this new material if I am going to truly understand all the nuances in DA4. So, I appreciate that I'm being fed some DA material, but I feel I have to pay to get my taste buds conditioned for the meal to come, because otherwise I miss out on the true chef's genius.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 12, 2018 21:43:03 GMT
Can you all take the Solas conversation to another thread? This is supposed to be about the upcoming comic. I know some of you can just talk for pages on end, but this isn't the place. I will say that while I'm excited for new material as always, most of the recent comics have been "Meh" with good bits. I will forever remember vertigomez pointing out that Knight Errant's Vaea has goat pupils. But yeah, same for me. I'm really looking forward to more Tevinter bits. It will be especially nice if they can show casual magic use for everyday things. Yeah, in Magekiller we got to see a magic laser show, but magic is everywhere in Tevinter. They'd better have magic-frosted ice cream parlors and gelato shops, and all sorts of things.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 12, 2018 23:29:24 GMT
Can you all take the Solas conversation to another thread? This is supposed to be about the upcoming comic. I know some of you can just talk for pages on end, but this isn't the place. Liking or disliking character aside, Solas is so pivotal to the plot of the story and the universe that you can comfortably play '6 degrees of Solas' about basically every topic pertaining future or past of Thedas and still find a connection. That includes future comic books too. The whole of Knight Errant happened only because Inquisition was still active and needed a new agent and we know why it's still active and needs new agents. So it's not a stretch to imagine that it's possible that we might get some pointers about him or his plans or people working for him or maybe even whether Tevinter elves began disappearing or whatevs, just like on the South. Whatever the connection, the protagonist being called Olivia Pryde and the very name of the comic clearly referring to some form of trickery does suggest at least for some parallels to occur.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jul 12, 2018 23:58:10 GMT
midnight tea Regardless, engaging in seemingly endless Solas fan speculation doesn't have much to do with what we know about the comic. I could go on about Dorian as well, considering it takes place in his home city, but realize that it's not as yet pertinent.
And y'know, it's not like there isn't an entire Solas thread to do that in. Yes, Solas will be relevant to the story going forward, but it's not Solas Age, and there is other stuff going on and there are other people to care about. For all we know, the overarching plot could have more to do with the Qunari, who are especially relevant considering Qarinus's proximity to Seheron and the history of it having been attacked. Considering what the Qunari's goals are, and have been for literal ages, that may have little to nothing at all to do with Solas.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 13, 2018 0:50:33 GMT
midnight tea Regardless, engaging in seemingly endless Solas fan speculation doesn't have much to do with what we know about the comic. I could go on about Dorian as well, considering it takes place in his home city, but realize that it's not as yet pertinent.
And y'know, it's not like there isn't an entire Solas thread to do that in. Yes, Solas will be relevant to the story going forward, but it's not Solas Age, and there is other stuff going on and there are other people to care about. For all we know, the overarching plot could have more to do with the Qunari, who are especially relevant considering Qarinus's proximity to Seheron and the history of it having been attacked. Considering what the Qunari's goals are, and have been for literal ages, that may have little to nothing at all to do with Solas.
We were predominantly talking about Solas in context of loyalty of modern elves, what we know about it now, what happened to those who left the South and what potentially we could see in Tevinter or in case of Charter, potentially, who has a large presence in all comics so far and whose ultimate loyalty seems unknown/shady to some people. And if you find ways to speculate about Dorian's role in relation to the comic - by all means do. In fact I'm fairly sure some of it happened in the thread already, with me participating in that sub-topic as well. I mean... it's not like we have much to talk about on this thread ATM, given all we have is a short description, a cover and a release date.
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Post by ellehaym on Jul 15, 2018 19:35:59 GMT
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ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
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Post by phoray on Jul 16, 2018 6:45:23 GMT
snort laughhe was a great character to interact with in the games, so we had a real thrill giving him a few scenes. ooooooo.... I hope Cole :3
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 16, 2018 6:53:40 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if it was sort of information we wouldn't necessarily detect as new info and it may tie to the future plot in the weirdest of ways Also - considering that the authors mention that they've been able to build 'their own central characters' may mean that we won't be seeing main comic book protagonists much in the game. I may be wrong though.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 16, 2018 8:30:54 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if it was sort of information we wouldn't necessarily detect as new info and it may tie to the future plot in the weirdest of ways Also - considering that the authors mention that they've been able to build 'their own central characters' may mean that we won't be seeing main comic book protagonists much in the game. I may be wrong though. I don't see why that would mean that. After all Cole was developed as a central character in Asunder and he ended up being a companion in DAI.
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 16, 2018 9:15:13 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if it was sort of information we wouldn't necessarily detect as new info and it may tie to the future plot in the weirdest of ways Also - considering that the authors mention that they've been able to build 'their own central characters' may mean that we won't be seeing main comic book protagonists much in the game. I may be wrong though. I don't see why that would mean that. After all Cole was developed as a central character in Asunder and he ended up being a companion in DAI. He was written by Dragon Age's Lead Writer at the time. Major difference here. For all we know, at a time Gaider wrote Asunder, they already knew that Cole is likely going to be part of the major cast in DAI. I also think that it's been a while since they figured out who is going to be a companion in DA4 - which means that they if they were companions they likely wouldn't be concocted by people who write ancillary material and not the main game. That doesn't mean that they won't show up in DA; ATM what they said simply lessens the chance that they're going to be major characters/companions in the story.
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