Rebellions, Genophages & In-game Depictions - Krogan Whitewashing 101

'Tis cool. 😉

Yes. Their role in defending Council Space in the Krogan Rebellions is what granted the Turian’s a position on the Council.

What, the day it took for it to happen? If one day made the difference there was no hope anyway.

So...the turians got the concession of having a seat on the Council in order to oppose the krogan?  Would the galaxy have been overrun without their intervention?  Sounds a hell of a lot like Wrex demanding a cure before giving his aid.  He had absolutely no reason to believe in they would be cured afterward.  At least, I wouldn't trust that to be true if I were in his position.  (I'm just launching off of your post to make my point about other things people said.)

Actually, the sequence of events for the Genopahge arc would be more in the realm of a week at least; possibly even closer to half a month if the player does every single side quest as well.

And a week can easily be the deciding factor in a war. 

Well the whole "Take Back Earth" bit that the narrative constantly shoves in our faces is moronic to begin with considering how tactically worthless the human homeworld is in the grand scheme of the invasion (prior to the Citadel being moved into low orbit), and at how the allied forces would loose far more than they would gain in trying to reclaim it from Reaper forces. 

Now the actual reason for asking for Turian aid (i.e. the defense and deployment of the Crucible) is not something the Turian balked at in the slightest. Indeed, both the Turian councilor as well as Primarch Victus both mention how they would love to provide assistance for a weapon that could help win the war, but that they are physically incapable of providing such help as all of their forces were bogged down around Palaven. That seems an awful lot like a people that are more than willing to assist  in actions above and beyond their own species' needs than anything coming out of the Krogan or Slarians.

Who's more altruistic? The soldiers fighting and dying for the common defense (even if indirectly) but are still willing to help if they can be reinforced? Or the renowned warriors who could (and in some cases already promised to) help but choose not to?  

Actually, the Rachni, if spared in ME 1 will get in touch with Shepard in ME 2 to say that her promise of aid for the coming war is still ongoing, and that she will help him/her 'purge the galaxy of the Reapers'. On top of sending her "emissary" to find Shepard on Illium there are reported sightings of Rachni ships cropping up around the Terminus. Those kinds of assets take time to build, and it's evident by the sheer number of Rachni husks we fight in ME 3 that she was creating an army. Now you could assume that she had no intention of honoring her promise to Shepard, but if that's the case why specifically seek him/her out? If she was only content to saving her own skin, or worse was outright lying to Shepard on Novaria, then why bother bringing attention to herself like that? It would have been far easier to simply not say anything as Shepard wasn't actively looking for the queen. So yes, the Rachni does keep her word from the moment that Shepard lets her go in the first game.

The queen then goes above and beyond reasonable expectations in ME 3 when she immediately volunteers her aid in whatever way she can (in this case helping with the Crucible) the moment she is freed a second time. Alternatively, should Shepard choose to not free her a second time, the queen accepts the danger that she and her children could pose and agrees to the act of leaving her to die. Not even the Geth are that altruistic, that willing to sacrifice for the greater good. 





And delaying the inevitable or not, its still Turian blood that is (for the time being) keeping the Reapers occupied. Can you imagine what would have happened if it was a Reaper dreadnought or a squadron of destroyers instead of a lone bogey guarding the Shroud tower on Tuchunka? Even a hundred Kal'roses wouldn't have done anything there and the cure would have failed. Wrex's demand isn't impossible (I never said it was) but it was thrown in at the last possible second as a condition to something he had already promised Shepard in ME 2. At the very least the narrative should have allowed us to call Wrex out on that betrayal of trust, but no we just meekly go along with it until the cartoonishly racist Dalatrass gives us an out.

Now with Wreve in charge, such a demand would make slightly more sense, (as no such promises were given to begin with) but seeing as how sabotaging the cure for that particular play through is considered the 'optimal' outcome, even to Mordin, the handwaving and symbolic gestures are just a means to an end in order to get an otherwise antagonistic player to work for the common defense. Even so, Victus doesn't really care were he gets the help. All he needs is boots on the ground to help relieve his ground forces.

Sure the Krogan fit that bill, but then so do the Rachni, and if the game hadn't wiped them out off camera I'll bet that the Turians wouldn't have batted an eye if it was legions of Rachni brood warriors arriving to the aid of Palaven. In fact, considering how the queen wasn't going back on her word at the last minute and didn't delay sending reinforcements for about a week, I'm sure the Turians and the rest of the galaxy would be much more appreciative of the immediate response.


EDIT: And Victus literally couldn't send forces to help Shepard, in any capacity that would have mattered, because of the stalemate over Palaven. I suppose he could have sent the scant few troops and personal that he sent to Tuchunka, but that was about the only means of assistance he had at his disposal at that time. Wrex and the Krogan however, are under no such dire straits, even with Reaper forces making landfall, they just choose to not help. Which is doubly stupid considering that not only are they pettily dooming the rest of the galaxy to die, but that they don't even have a navy to protect them from Reaper orbital bombardment and so can't even "protect their boarders" to begin with.

In my perception:

Mordin never seriously considered making a cure until asked. As in, I believe he wanted to by that point, but lacked opportunity.

In ME2 he was already feeling doubts about working on the Genophage, and guilt, but opted for projecting that away from himself.
In later ME2 (+Loyalty) he has a push to consider beyond that, and to face the individual details of what the genophage does. This is his 'mad doctor' part that he tried to justify.
Regardless, the experience on the Normandy taught him that he has to care for individuals. He was already subconsciously going there with that rush away to do his Omega clinic, but I can easily imagine that learning of how the Collectors exist, and Reapers seem to think, jarred him. Thus that conversion of being so disturbed at the shells that it seems Reaper creatures are/become.
The concept of Mordin is the pragmatist logical face that is a sensitive 'humanist' at heart. One who cares for art, friendship, spirituality, all things that IRL we may collectively decide makes us 'human' and particularly important but also responsible. He'll care for these things even as his aptitude may always be elsewhere.

So we don't need to do the Loyalty mission to understand that by the end of ME2, Mordin has moved from a more coldly collectivist to an emerging
guilty/responsible individualist perspective. This fits many of the character themes in the trilogy.
So he tries to do his part, for a better collective good. He joins the STG with their work on the female krogan. This is an opportunity to save one, some, many of them as they're dying from the experience (volunteering or not). He has to do something. He must do something, now. So he leaks the info.
He wasn't trying to save just Eve/Bakara. Bakara just ended up being the only one left.

But he was really just trying to help any of them. He didn't like Maelon's activities, he wasn't dwelling on his data, and there was no scheme for making a cure happen. That'd be some epic level scheming to make that happen. He only leaked data to Bakara's clan leader (who happened to be leader of the Krogan) so that something can be done. He can't sneak them out, he's dealing with STG even if STGish himself. But he can set off some political firestorm and pressure release the remaining female krogan if only to get others off the Salarians' backs.

As in, I think he wanted an upset Wrex, but not an ambitious 'you don't get my help unless you cure the krogan'.

So when the idea comes up, he goes for it. Again, why? Eve: "I think seeing my sisters and I changed something in him."

He went from collective justification, to individual guilt in ME2 (subtle or not). And seeing the female krogan further, moved him from individual guilt to active redemption. But its only when finally tasked with a cure that he embraces his new, kind of sudden role as savior. That's what ME3 plays with a lot, for better or worse - the option of using a disaster as opportunity for the greatest salvation. Where war criminals may become heroes, where genocidal scientists may become healers, where assassins may become protectors, where dire galactic rivals may have understanding of each other. Conflict being the catalyst of various unexpected results.




In summary: Yes, he cares about an entire people. Always did. But his calibrations were off. He thought that just tweaking the genophage was enough, was all he needed to do, and his hands were clean. But it was individual encounters and priorities that convinced him to change the moral calibration. It was seeing the krogan generally, that pushed him into the clinic. It was seeing the sick in the clinic, that pushed him into accepting Shepard's recruitment. It was seeing the victims of the Collectors and Reapers (+ optionally the victims of an attempt to treat the genophage), that pushed him to see what he could to learn and acquire what's necessary to do better next time (cure or less), by this point all he needed was to be asked. If asked in ME2 at any point, but especially the start, he would have easily rejected the proposition. By the time Wrex demanded, Mordin was on the case. And like for so many things, if the Reapers were not bearing down on the galaxy, Mordin would still have thought it through longer and more deeply. But this is everyone's collective near-death experience. May as well make our dreams come true.

The disconnect with Wrex specifically is because he makes a complete 180 concerning his promise of support to Shepard from ME 2.

If Primarch Victus or the Dalatras had approached Shepard with promises of Turian and Salarian aid, full stop, in the second game and then turned around and reneged on their promise until an ultimatum was reached in ME 3 then I would be crying foul for their actions as well.  

What makes this even more insulting is that Wrex doesn't even acknowledge his flat out betrayal of Shepard; indeed he automatically assumes that Shepard will back him 100%; becuase Shepard is his friend, but only if he/she does what he wants. The game won't even let players call Wrex out on that total reversal of his promise.  That is where the majority of the contention comes from. 

The Rachni queen, even after being captured and enslaved by the Reapers as a literal baby factory for six+ months and then freed a second time, immeditly moves to make good on her promise of support. Wrex and the Krogan, who aren't anywhere near that same level of endangerment, can't even be bothered to send a token force of warriors in honor of his public promise he made. 

Mordin isn't trying to cure the Krogan on Sur'Kesh.

He's trying to help the females and find a solution to Genophage issue. This doesn't mean a cure. I think he'd also support whatever lore twisting made MEA Krogan happen, if it could instead happen in his remaining lifetime.

He's offered a drastic solution during the Reaper War and goes for it.


Anyway yes, part of the setting is that while Krogan are the big (barely) civilized organic baddies of the galaxy, basically everything they have done, are doing, may do, is what either some other entities have done, or the collective galactic community essentially does, or is what some others plan to do.
The Krogan are rude, crude, and aggressive about it so they're assumed to be the one big bad in the room, even when, technically since ME1, we have at least the small hints of hope of them being something else that is something more.

Why is the asari ignored there? Even by Shepard? I think no matter what our RP-allowed-choices are, Shepard has their own bias that that includes Asari being generally superior and their choices generally accepted as being informed decisions, at least compared to Krogan.
Shepard is actually exceptional, not just for a human but for people in that galactic community, for giving Krogan a chance beyond being mercs, for giving Geth any respect of possible sapience, etc. But even Shep has passive bias or can learn to basically read the room. Shepard is just trying to find a solution to achieve their mighty goal, not grandstand on the hypocrisy of Asari. Like they'll do the latter, but only if he thinks it'll achieve their goal (the figure that isn't afraid to cajole, threaten, insult, etc - as noted in the game script).

Wrex does not need a genophage cure at that particular point more than any other. He WANTS a cure at that point more than any other, because he sees the opportunity. From ME1 canon-living-Wrex outcome, he's learned to take that opportunity. He's just come from leading the Krogan, no small feat even though the narrative somewhat shrugs it, and he's acting more like a Krogan leader towards other Krogan, when he shouldn't.
The mix of demanding something not strictly necessary plus demanding it almost as aggressively as possible (except he's no Wreav), is what startles the other leaders.
But it doesn't really surprise Shepard, and Victus is willing to play. The Dalatrass is who really loses it and frankly is who is actually mostly villainized in the scene (unless it is Wreav instead of Wrex), and the Asari are a mix of dismissed and understood.

It is understandable that a long-term-viewing society would see a short term meeting to make a level of peace between Krogan and Turians as folly. They'd require at least decades of communication, false starts, negotiations. Frankly they likely saw Shepard as very stupid. Shepard is a little stupid. They need some stupid decisions based on hope and anger though, because they don't have centuries to face the Reapers.


I think its reasonable for Wrex to demand things, but he demanded something immaterial to the Reaper invasion (no cure will help things for now) and he did so in a familiar-ish way to Krogan-expansionism. Victus is up for it. The Salarians sent a particular jerk. Asari might go for it but they just don't believe in the particular process. Its not that everyone is against Wrex, its that most don't have faith in him and he has to measure up to his demands. Thankfully he does, but he needed Shepard and he recognizes that.




You know, I wish the narrative did more overtly recognize the '180s' you mention Vortex. I'm not even against the 180s. I just wanted the words to reflect on it. I think ME3 was very themed on the presence of imminent death and how it changes people, their priorities, and actions, but I would have liked more exploration there with Wrex, Legion, and many others. Maybe the writers thought it would waste word budget or be too philosophical.