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Post by Vortex13 on Jan 31, 2019 4:06:29 GMT
My reasoning for this is based on the fact that even when asking for consideration of a second chance, one very parallel to what the Krogan were looking for I might add, Wrex will scoff and argue for the Queen's destruction. He, and your average Krogan I'm guessing, don't see the Rachni as anything other than a target to be wiped out. Despite resenting the Salarians for their uplift, the Krogan sure took immense pleasure in their job of hunting down and killing every last Rachni they could see. I'm not arguing with you overall assessment, but you do realize Ash also thought the rachni queen should be killed, right? And the entire Council? Ash also was highly discriminatory towards aliens, especially Turians, but she eventually overcame her own personal bias over the course of the game. The Council would have argued against killing the queen if Shepard goes the other way, in fact they disagreed with any choice you took in ME 1. What's more, they continually disbelieved evidence to the contrary about the Reapers right up until they were being invaded by them. But, they eventually came around to accepting Shepard's warnings and heeding his/her advice. Wrex, on the other hand, doesn't ever change his stance on the Rachni. Even if he's there with Shepard on Noveria and can see and hear himself that the Rachni aren't mindless monsters. He can hear the queen's plea for a second chance; one that nearly mirrors how he feels about his own people in relation to the rest of the galaxy, and yet maintains his stance that the Rachni need to die. Flash forward to ME 3 with the Rachni mission and he still feels that the queen should have been killed, even when she goes to help with the Crucible. If he's in charge, and if his thoughts are similar to most other Krogan on the matter, co-existence would be very unlikely due to their pre-existing bias.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 31, 2019 5:39:29 GMT
If it’s the only way to stop the reapers sure, gamble that the Salarians will fix it again before the krogan kill them all. But I’d rather gamble on my lie. So I will shoot mordin in the back every time wrex is alive. Which is rare so I normally just convince him not to. I actually don’t even have a problem with the Salarians holding off support unless we do this. Why would they give a fuck about saving the galaxy if they will just get murdered a few years later by the krogan. It’s nice to be altruistic but it’s our actions that will murder every salarian, so I can see them telling us to fuck off. It's not just altruism. If Wrex and Mordin are both your friends, the outright murder of Mordin is unconscionable. The guy developed a conscience and you repay it by murder. Maybe that insanely intelligence salarian has thought of things that Shepard never did. Shep is a soldier but nothing suggests he's especially outstanding in the intellect department. As for Wrex, it's a betrayal. Wrex and Eve are both well aware of krogan history. Perhaps they have something in mind to solve the problem. If they have a super secret plan that will solve it, then they should speak up. Mordin pretty much admits his plan boils down he likes Eve and Wrex, so it will totally work this time. So, I'm stopping Mordin from killing off the entire galaxy in a fit of guilt. And Wrex, the dude is pretty much gleeful the Turians are dying in droves from the Reapers. He is completely unwilling to accept the Krogans role in what brought about the genophage, he has learned nothing outside maybe the Salarians might come up with something worse so it might not be good to go to war with them, and he is supposed to be the best of the Krogan. Fuck him.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 31, 2019 12:31:54 GMT
Wrex is just some pathetic krogan. He's the 2nd reason why I sabotage the genophage. Look at what he did on Virmire. He thinks pointing his shotgun at Shepard will get what he wants. Idiot. He's too stupid to realize that he would be killed, if he shoots Shepard, by the other squadmates and the salarians. Yeah. That's really helping your species there krogan. Dumba**.
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Post by nougat on Feb 8, 2019 5:07:09 GMT
If Wrex and Mordin are both your friends, the outright murder of Mordin is unconscionable. The guy developed a conscience and you repay it by murder. To quote one of the greatest video game characters, "Conscience...? You dare speak to me of conscience? Only when you have felt the full gravity of choice should you dare to question my judgment!"Solus always had a conscience. Shepard has it too. Shepard repeatedly begs Solus to back down and expresses visible guilt later. It's Shepard's duty to try to secure both Krogan' and Salarian' aid. If Solus is somehow allowed to have a personal crisis that costs Salarian assets, then Shepard has every right to assassinate one dangerous person to secure double help. "You repay it by murder", oh please. Calling it some sort of retribution for Solus daring to have a conscience is cheap emotional manipulation. Shepard shots Solus (or Wiks) because a] it's requirement for Dalatrass deal and/or b] genophage cure is a galaxy-wide threat. That's it. There is no malice. Again, I think there would be more understanding and less resentment if paragon Shepard would have been put in renegade place just for once. But no, Bioware went out of their way to coddle paragons.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 8, 2019 14:58:04 GMT
Wrex is just some pathetic krogan. He's the 2nd reason why I sabotage the genophage. Look at what he did on Virmire. He thinks pointing his shotgun at Shepard will get what he wants. Idiot. He's too stupid to realize that he would be killed, if he shoots Shepard, by the other squadmates and the salarians. Yeah. That's really helping your species there krogan. Dumba**. Really both Wrex and Morda are rather clueless when it comes to "helping their species". Rather than work with the other races they want what's 'owed' to them and they want it now; present circumstances be damned. Forget the fact that those cured Krogan are pawns of Saren, wholly devoted to his cause, and that you specifically signed on to stop said Turian Wrex. No, it obviously far better to just pull a gun on your closest ally in this situation. And self righteous Morda, conveniently ignore the recent schism that just occurred, as well as the fact that you are calling up the promises of a liar and traitor, who's words will have no sway to those in charge. Clearly attacking the director of the Nexus for his failure to uphold the words of a criminal is the preferred outcome. The games love to keep saying how nobel and misunderstood the Krogan are, yet the moment things don't go their way they start acting like petulant 4 year olds throwing a temper tantrum.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 11, 2019 3:30:42 GMT
It's not just altruism. If Wrex and Mordin are both your friends, the outright murder of Mordin is unconscionable. The guy developed a conscience and you repay it by murder. Maybe that insanely intelligence salarian has thought of things that Shepard never did. Shep is a soldier but nothing suggests he's especially outstanding in the intellect department. As for Wrex, it's a betrayal. Wrex and Eve are both well aware of krogan history. Perhaps they have something in mind to solve the problem. If they have a super secret plan that will solve it, then they should speak up. Mordin pretty much admits his plan boils down he likes Eve and Wrex, so it will totally work this time. Hey, wait a minute. At the time Mordin is making that choice the krogan aren't a threat and can't be one for decades or even centuries. No fleet, and no industrial base to build one. If the krogan do go bad, that can be handled by later generations. It's only a problem if you assume that future Citadel leadership won't be politically able to handle resurgent krogan.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 11, 2019 4:21:20 GMT
If they have a super secret plan that will solve it, then they should speak up. Mordin pretty much admits his plan boils down he likes Eve and Wrex, so it will totally work this time. Hey, wait a minute. At the time Mordin is making that choice the krogan aren't a threat and can't be one for decades or even centuries. No fleet, and no industrial base to build one. If the krogan do go bad, that can be handled by later generations. It's only a problem if you assume that future Citadel leadership won't be politically able to handle resurgent krogan. Given how absurdly quick stuff is built in the ME universe I don't see that as much of a limitation. Yeah it will take some time due to people need to be born, and grow up but the birth rate is so far beyond what anyone can deal with its absurd. Thing is the council could be the greatest political leaders in existence. The numbers they have multiple time given is over 1000 kids which would literally overpopulate the galaxy in a handful of generations, there is no poltical way to deal with that, militarily, super science sure, politically nope. Now if his fix was same number of live births, they just don't have piles of stillborns I'd be all in or hell just reduce it to 10 kids.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2019 21:24:35 GMT
It's not the number of births that the biggest issue (but it is an issue). It's also the life span of the krogan. It's not an issue with the asari since they don't seem to have out of control reproduction. It still comes down to the salarians uplifting the krogan. It stands to reason that, over time, krogan reproduction might even out. We also know the krogan had a civilization prior to be uplifted. Given that they lived on only a single world, there must have been some way around 1000 births per mother. Maybe it would be worth investigating how that was possible.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 11, 2019 21:35:39 GMT
It's not the number of births that the biggest issue (but it is an issue). It's also the life span of the krogan. It's not an issue with the asari since they don't seem to have out of control reproduction. It still comes down to the salarians uplifting the krogan. It stands to reason that, over time, krogan reproduction might even out. We also know the krogan had a civilization prior to be uplifted. Given that they lived on only a single world, there must have been some way around 1000 births per mother. Maybe it would be worth investigating how that was possible. Prior to their uplift, the Krogan had nearly wiped themselves out via nuclear holocaust so their numbers were massively reduced. Before that, the native flora and fauna were so aggressive and predatory that pre-industrialized society was kept in check despite the thousands of births per female. They might have eventually evened out their natural birthrate but that was before they threw their natural evolution out of whack with nuclear fire. Add to that situation the subsequent uplifting by the Salarians and you now have a biologically immortal, R-Rated, apex predator species with interstellar capabilities. Genetic engineering is really the only way to fix that kind of logistical nightmare at this point.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2019 21:39:38 GMT
Genetic engineering is really the only way to fix that kind of logistical nightmare at this point. I won't argue that, but the solution should be more along the lines of laying fewer eggs (maybe even just one) rather than have 99.9% of eggs not be viable. Still a race that lives for millennia but perhaps they'd be more in line with the asari.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 11, 2019 22:19:50 GMT
Genetic engineering is really the only way to fix that kind of logistical nightmare at this point. I won't argue that, but the solution should be more along the lines of laying fewer eggs (maybe even just one) rather than have 99.9% of eggs not be viable. Still a race that lives for millennia but perhaps they'd be more in line with the asari. That's just what the Genophage did, at least until BioWare decided it was better for a more balanced slanted narrative to instead have it as a horrific plague causing untold numbers of stillborn births. It wasn't until ME 2 that the whole notion of "Genophage = Evil" mantra was pushed to the front of the Krogan arc, in the first game it wasn't made out to be anywhere near that level of torture porn.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 11, 2019 22:49:06 GMT
I won't argue that, but the solution should be more along the lines of laying fewer eggs (maybe even just one) rather than have 99.9% of eggs not be viable. Still a race that lives for millennia but perhaps they'd be more in line with the asari. That's just what the Genophage did, at least until BioWare decided it was better for a more balanced slanted narrative to instead have it as a horrific plague causing untold numbers of stillborn births. It wasn't until ME 2 that the whole notion of "Genophage = Evil" mantra was pushed to the front of the Krogan arc, in the first game it wasn't made out to be anywhere near that level of torture porn. Where did we hear that about the krogan? I honestly don't remember what you say being covered in ME1. Of course, that change would be in line with the changes in Cerberus.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 12, 2019 0:59:51 GMT
That's just what the Genophage did, at least until BioWare decided it was better for a more balanced slanted narrative to instead have it as a horrific plague causing untold numbers of stillborn births. It wasn't until ME 2 that the whole notion of "Genophage = Evil" mantra was pushed to the front of the Krogan arc, in the first game it wasn't made out to be anywhere near that level of torture porn. Where did we hear that about the krogan? I honestly don't remember what you say being covered in ME1. Of course, that change would be in line with the changes in Cerberus. ME 1 said that the Genophage was, first and most important of all, NOT a sterility plague, that the decline of the Krogan as a species was more to do with their own fatalism than anything else. It said that the Genopahge lowered the viable birthrate of the Krogan, but nowhere was it mentioned that it caused stillborns in 999 out of 1000 pregnancies. ME 2 comes along and the Genophage is suddenly revealed to be a form of third term trimester abortion plague, with the Krogan actively dying out because of a lack of viable females. So yes, very much in line with how Cerberus suddenly became the Sith Empire with more money than and economy power than entire interstellar civilizations. Namely the two elements becoming the flagships for unsubtle writer's agendas/pets.
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Post by griffith82 on Feb 12, 2019 1:04:55 GMT
That's just what the Genophage did, at least until BioWare decided it was better for a more balanced slanted narrative to instead have it as a horrific plague causing untold numbers of stillborn births. It wasn't until ME 2 that the whole notion of "Genophage = Evil" mantra was pushed to the front of the Krogan arc, in the first game it wasn't made out to be anywhere near that level of torture porn. Where did we hear that about the krogan? I honestly don't remember what you say being covered in ME1. Of course, that change would be in line with the changes in Cerberus. Wrex just covers basic genophage data. That's it. They expand on it in ME2 and 3.I always cure it as a paragon.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 13, 2019 0:10:50 GMT
Hey, wait a minute. At the time Mordin is making that choice the krogan aren't a threat and can't be one for decades or even centuries. No fleet, and no industrial base to build one. If the krogan do go bad, that can be handled by later generations. It's only a problem if you assume that future Citadel leadership won't be politically able to handle resurgent krogan. Given how absurdly quick stuff is built in the ME universe I don't see that as much of a limitation. Yeah it will take some time due to people need to be born, and grow up but the birth rate is so far beyond what anyone can deal with its absurd. Thing is the council could be the greatest political leaders in existence. The numbers they have multiple time given is over 1000 kids which would literally overpopulate the galaxy in a handful of generations, there is no poltical way to deal with that, militarily, super science sure, politically nope. Now if his fix was same number of live births, they just don't have piles of stillborns I'd be all in or hell just reduce it to 10 kids. Um.. yeah... the question would be whether they'd have the political will to use military force in order to contain krogan expansion. The krogan can't get any more planets than the Citadel lets them have, no matter what their birthrate is. "Give us more planets or we'll breed ourselves into ecological collapse" isn't much of a threat. On a related topic, the genophage doesn't make much sense. You stop krogan breeding and this hurts their military effort.... how? Yeah, they'll be weaker in a few decades, but until then?
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 14, 2019 17:47:14 GMT
Given how absurdly quick stuff is built in the ME universe I don't see that as much of a limitation. Yeah it will take some time due to people need to be born, and grow up but the birth rate is so far beyond what anyone can deal with its absurd. Thing is the council could be the greatest political leaders in existence. The numbers they have multiple time given is over 1000 kids which would literally overpopulate the galaxy in a handful of generations, there is no poltical way to deal with that, militarily, super science sure, politically nope. Now if his fix was same number of live births, they just don't have piles of stillborns I'd be all in or hell just reduce it to 10 kids. Um.. yeah... the question would be whether they'd have the political will to use military force in order to contain krogan expansion. The krogan can't get any more planets than the Citadel lets them have, no matter what their birthrate is. "Give us more planets or we'll breed ourselves into ecological collapse" isn't much of a threat. On a related topic, the genophage doesn't make much sense. You stop krogan breeding and this hurts their military effort.... how? Yeah, they'll be weaker in a few decades, but until then? Well Wrex does expect to receive several garden worlds as 'payment' for the Krogan participation in the war; he mentions it during the battle for Earth. Given the resources of those worlds coupled with the Krogan's insane birthrate there is no way that Council authorities will be able to stop them developing their own industry and military base again. Unless the Council is going to just park a fleet of warships over every single one of the those aforementioned planets there is no real way to stop them from developing interstellar capabilities again. And at that point what's really going to stop the Krogan from spreading out across the galaxy literally outbreeding every other species if they feel like it? Yeah, the outcome of the Genophage doesn't seem like it would be immediately apparent to the Krogan war machine. I guess the shock of suddenly being unable to pop out thousands of babies per pregnancy might have stopped the Krogan leadership enough to finally allow for peace talks? The lore does say that the Salarians were planning on using the Genophage as a threat to get the Krogan to talk peace so maybe that's what happened once the Turians deployed it? Granted its a flimsy explanation, but then again this is the same setting that has humanity economically outpacing the Volus, militarily confounding the Turians, while also scientifically surpassing the Salarians because of…. genetic diversity.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 14, 2019 18:36:23 GMT
Even with just their homeworld the game consistently displays magic levels of creation. It would take a week tops to build multiple ship foundries and maybe another week to produce a fleet of ships. Or they take some pirate colony, travel with one production ship to a uncharted part of the galaxy or area not patrolled etc.
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Post by burningcherry on Nov 9, 2019 19:43:54 GMT
4:13: Walters debunks a large chunk of his own agenda
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Post by sassafrassa on Nov 16, 2019 20:35:54 GMT
Hey, wait a minute. At the time Mordin is making that choice the krogan aren't a threat and can't be one for decades or even centuries. Who cares about long term consequences? By the way, pointing out their lack of a fleet or industrial capacity undermines the concept of them having any political leverage in the first place. So why are Shepard, the turians, and the salarians bothering with them? They should be irrelevant in ME3.
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