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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 11:02:55 GMT
Incorrect. The earth is observably flat and stationary, concrete noun, therefore it's the default position. The positive claim is on the globe side, therefore burden of proof is on them. Incorrect, the curvature of the Earth, it's rotational and orbital periods are are all easily observable phenomena that conform to scientific models that all work in concert with one another, therefore the Globe theory is the default position according to science.
The burden of proof is on those trying to demonstrate how the Earth is flat. So far, none of the FE proposed models work in concert, nor do they explain all of the data in a satisfactory manner that would firmly demonstrate that the Earth is a flat disc standing perfectly still.
That's why the Globe Earth theory supplanted the Flat Earth. It wasn't because of any conspiracy, but because all the scientific data that was gathered supported the globe model, while disproving the flat model entirely.
Can you show me this science?
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Post by Sifr on Mar 19, 2020 16:10:07 GMT
Can you show me this science? Depends, do you want to start with Erastothenes already debunking the Flat Earth in the 3rd Century BC by calculating the diameter of the Earth... or would you rather start at the modern day and work backwards over the past two millennia?
I know that most Globe science might sound like Greek to Flat Earthers, but that's because at the start, it was.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 17:20:49 GMT
Can you show me this science? Depends, do you want to start with Erastothenes already debunking the Flat Earth in the 3rd Century BC by calculating the diameter of the Earth... or would you rather start at the modern day and work backwards over the past two millennia?
I know that most Globe science might sound like Greek to Flat Earthers, but that's because at the start, it was. First, Eratosthenes sticks and shadows or wells and shadows (even the story is not consistent), is not science. Second, anything not adhering to the scientific method by definition is pseudoscience. Third, Eratosthenes, if he was even a real person to begin with, made bunch of assumption. Like assuming the sun is very large and far away as to produce parallel sun rays. Otherwise you could get the same result with a close and smaller sun on a flat earth.
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Post by skekSil on Mar 19, 2020 19:23:34 GMT
So just explaining a definition without providing the word being defined? The reason we provide the word and definition is so that eventually when folks get caught up with what the words mean, we can save on time by calling it for what it is without having to explain the meaning of a word. You dont have to define anything. If you spot a mistake in someone's argument you should explain it that person/audience so it becomes obvious. I still dont understand what your argument is. On top of it if you mess up at calling out a logical fallacy you just shoot yourself in a foot. You claim first its equivocation then say no its bait and switch - are you sure there is a logical fallacy called 'bait and switch'? As I've said, its just a friendly advice - dont use it, its not worth a hussle. Again. Equivocation fallacy. Double meaning of a word. The word is looming refraction effect. The double meaning for this word is both for looming and Fata Morgana mirage (though people aren't aware they're also wrongfully using it to describe a Fata Morgana). I still dont undestand what are you trying to say. My position is that when it comes to globe earth evidence, it always starts with begging the question; assuming that the globe earth theory is 100% correct first, then work backwards with ad hoc hypothesis to compensate for anomalies not anticipated by the theory (ie. we don't see the geometric horizon? Well it's got to be there somewhere because I believe the earth is 100% globe. We see too far? Well has to be refraction because I believe the earth is 100% globe). Never the other way around, where one works logically forward. How is it different for flat earth? You see a ship that gets behind a horizon - how do you explain that? Refraction? Aint that an ad hoc theory to your assumption that earth is flat? For example, someone talking about Newtonian gravity (outdated gravity) and all of a sudden they slip in it's the bending of space time (current gravity). Two different definitions (Newtonian & Einstein), one word (gravity). Its a bad example. First gravity is a naturally occuring phenomenon, Newton and Einstein did not define it they proposed explanations of what it is and how it works. Second, u nder certain conditions Newtonian theory is mathematically very close to Einstein's and so using them interchangibly can sometimes be valid. An example of equivocation for refraction would be Andrew Thomas Young (subject matter expert) talking about refraction on a plane, then tying it together to a globe. I've never heard of Andrew Thomas Young or what he did wrong. Why did you assume I would understand this example? The earth is observably flat and stationary, concrete noun, therefore it's the default position. People who walk in straight lines in forrests and/or deserts end up walking in circles. And people who feel themselves stationary in a train can observe trees and houses passing by. So it seems that simple observation of world can be deceiving and you need to do some careful mesurement and hard math to figure these things out. Erastothenes already debunking the Flat Earth in the 3rd Century BC Erastothenes did not debunk flat earth he calculated earth circumference. First mentions of globe where made, if I am not mistaken, by Pythagoras and first proof is atributed to Aristotle. First, Eratosthenes sticks and shadows or wells and shadows (even the story is not consistent), is not science. Wow, what is it? Second, anything not adhering to the scientific method by definition is pseudoscience. Thats not what the definition you linked to claims. Third, Eratosthenes, if he was even a real person to begin with, made bunch of assumption. Like assuming the sun is very large and far away as to produce parallel sun rays. Otherwise you could get the same result with a close and smaller sun on a flat ear As I've said he was merely calculating earth circumference not trying to debunk flat earth (it was done before him).
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 20:17:51 GMT
skekSil I'd rather stick to one subject for better focus. You're choice for subject.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 19, 2020 20:21:08 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles?
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Post by skekSil on Mar 19, 2020 20:33:52 GMT
skekSil I'd rather stick to one subject for better focus. You're choice for subject. Initially you posted an image, implying that it disproves globe earth. I replied that it is just a refraction effect. Upon your request I explained my position in more detail. I believe I did my part good enough so now I want to know two things: Do you understand my explanation? Do you agree with my explanation and if not what is it exactly that you think is wrong with it?
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Post by skekSil on Mar 19, 2020 20:35:18 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles? Isnt that the question one asks himself when he sees any flat earther?
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 20:40:36 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles? One of the most popular subjects since around 2015. So popular and gaining momentum, that YouTube algorithms had to be changed to slow movement down.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 20:46:18 GMT
skekSil I'd rather stick to one subject for better focus. You're choice for subject. Initially you posted an image, implying that it disproves globe earth. I replied that it is just a refraction effect. Upon your request I explained my position in more detail. I believe I did my part good enough so now I want to know two things: Do you understand my explanation? Do you agree with my explanation and if not what is it exactly that you think is wrong with it? How does one validate the explanation for looming refraction being cause of that natural phenomena?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 19, 2020 20:57:39 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles? One of the most popular subjects since around 2015. So popular and gaining momentum, that YouTube algorithms had to be changed to slow movement down. That doesn't answer my question.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 21:05:27 GMT
One of the most popular subjects since around 2015. So popular and gaining momentum, that YouTube algorithms had to be changed to slow movement down. That doesn't answer my question. In 2011 or 2012, acquired information that the moon landing was faked. 2018, acquired information that the earth is indeed flat.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 19, 2020 21:29:19 GMT
That doesn't answer my question. In 2011 or 2012, acquired information that the moon landing was faked. 2018, acquired information that the earth is indeed flat. It's a yes or no question, man: Do you genuinely believe the Earth is flat?
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 21:33:06 GMT
In 2011 or 2012, acquired information that the moon landing was faked. 2018, acquired information that the earth is indeed flat. It's a yes or no question, man: Do you genuinely believe the Earth is flat? Affirmative.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 19, 2020 21:34:08 GMT
It's a yes or no question, man: Do you genuinely believe the Earth is flat? Affirmative. Then I have two requests: 1. Don't breed 2. Never be in a position of influence over others
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 22:28:29 GMT
Then I have two requests: 1. Don't breed 2. Never be in a position of influence over others You sound pretty convinced it's a globe, mind if I ask why?
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Post by skekSil on Mar 19, 2020 22:30:40 GMT
Initially you posted an image, implying that it disproves globe earth. I replied that it is just a refraction effect. Upon your request I explained my position in more detail. I believe I did my part good enough so now I want to know two things: Do you understand my explanation? Do you agree with my explanation and if not what is it exactly that you think is wrong with it? How does one validate the explanation for looming refraction being cause of that natural phenomena? Can you reply in normal language?
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 22:51:40 GMT
How does one validate the explanation for looming refraction being cause of that natural phenomena? Can you reply in normal language? When we see further then the globe earth model allows, the counterargument out there is that it's due to looming refraction. Can you support this claim?
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Post by skekSil on Mar 19, 2020 23:05:42 GMT
Can you reply in normal language? When we see further then the globe earth model allows, the counterargument out there is that it's due to looming refraction. Can you support this claim? Did you read my posts at all?
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 19, 2020 23:20:39 GMT
When we see further then the globe earth model allows, the counterargument out there is that it's due to looming refraction. Can you support this claim? Did you read my posts at all? You just explained what you believe. Am now looking for support to this claim. Can start with a valid citation.
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Post by mybudgee on Mar 19, 2020 23:33:05 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles? I truly doubt he's THAT stupid Just a very clever troll
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 20, 2020 7:56:34 GMT
Wait, so is Terminator genuinely a Flat Earther or is this just a troll thread for kicks and giggles? One of the most popular subjects since around 2015. So popular and gaining momentum, that YouTube algorithms had to be changed to slow movement down. It's gone quite stale now.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 23, 2020 5:49:16 GMT
Erastothenes did not debunk flat earth he calculated earth circumference. First mentions of globe where made, if I am not mistaken, by Pythagoras and first proof is atributed to Aristotle. He might not have been the first to suggest the globe, but his experiment to calculate the circumference relied upon (and demonstrated) that the curvature of the Earth was real and could be measured, thereby helping disprove the FE hypothesis.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Mar 23, 2020 10:53:09 GMT
The word clever does not belong in this sentence.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 24, 2020 6:07:53 GMT
The word clever does not belong in this sentence. Nor troll, who would be offended because Trolls do believe the Earth is round.
Admittedly, that is because a key part of the religion is that the Earth is being juggled by an invisible celestial giant, which is responsible for the tides and earthquakes (when he nearly fails to catch it), but that's neither here nor there.
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