bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 10, 2019 6:19:29 GMT
Spare me your selective application of an absurdly high standard for E3 trailers. Absurdly high standard? Well pardon me for actually expecting what was promised from a AAA video game company with decades of experience at an internationally broadcasted event showing upcoming games. Do you also get all worked up about Bungie, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Bethesda and a few others or it is just for Bioware?
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Post by Pounce de León on Mar 10, 2019 8:07:26 GMT
I mean almost every game does the same thing BioWare does. It doesn’t surprise me to see a graphical downgrade. ....
^^^The horror!!... ...lol... .....i think if folks had to deal with this level of gaming, they would commit suicide....lol....Ms. Pacman was slightly better, but man..those atari 2600 games were bad lol....and yes, yours truly purchased this monstrosity but i was soooo desperate for a pacman game.. WTF are you talking about? This is a shitty screengrab with dropped frames. It looked nothing like that in reality.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Mar 10, 2019 8:14:04 GMT
but Bioware is taking monumental efforts to get try and get this thing right Making monumental efforts after taking money from customers. Yeah, that sounds like a scam.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 10, 2019 9:57:51 GMT
lol I'm sorry, but true scams never try to make things better. They take the money and run, never to be seen again unless Law Enforcement tracks them down. That is literally what a scam is.
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Post by Garo on Mar 10, 2019 10:29:18 GMT
I'm surprised people are actually defending this. Every game that had a downgrade got hate for it. Even Witcher 3 had *some* backlash over it but the game itself was so good that people let that slide. With Anthem tho, this game has so many problems at launch that it is just sad that even graphics and detail in environments got downgraded by quite a lot.
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Post by General Mahad on Mar 10, 2019 10:45:54 GMT
Absurdly high standard? Well pardon me for actually expecting what was promised from a AAA video game company with decades of experience at an internationally broadcasted event showing upcoming games. Do you also get all worked up about Bungie, Ubisoft, Blizzard, Bethesda and a few others or it is just for Bioware? Do you defend substandard products from those companies or is it just BioWare?
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The Fat Controller
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Origin: OfficerDonNZ
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 10, 2019 10:50:31 GMT
For some reason all the whining about the graphics amuses me. Possibly because my eyesight isn't great so graphics are something I don't spend too much time worrying over.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 10, 2019 11:43:18 GMT
whining about graphics is the most hilarious thing about games I've ever seen in all my years as a gamer. It's also typically something only PC gamers care about. Because in the words of a coworker of mine, who was once a loyal member of the Cult of Alienware, "Why would you play console if you care at all about graphics?"
This is a guy who would spend HOURS fiddleing with Video settings for Shadow of Mordor because the cape had to look just right, and by the time he finally got it how he wanted it, he was tired of looking at the game and turned it off. He moved to Console because his obession with graphics was ruining his love of actually playing video games. Was always so perpetually disappointed and disgusted by graphics of video games that he was starting to lose all love and passion for video games as a whole. The night and day transformation of this mans attitude once he gave up being a PC gamer was unbelieveable. He started to actually love games again, he would instead start raving about how fun this was, or how great that was etc etc. He actually started to move into the scene of retro games, who all graphically look like crap compared to modern standards, stuff he never even considered before.
Getting worked up about graphics in video games, is just ridiculous. I make it a point in life, to never debate anyone about graphics because to me, that is not a debate worth having.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 10, 2019 12:47:34 GMT
whining about graphics is the most hilarious thing about games I've ever seen in all my years as a gamer. It's also typically something only PC gamers care about. Because in the words of a coworker of mine, who was once a loyal member of the Cult of Alienware, "Why would you play console if you care at all about graphics?" This is a guy who would spend HOURS fiddleing with Video settings for Shadow of Mordor because the cape had to look just right, and by the time he finally got it how he wanted it, he was tired of looking at the game and turned it off. He moved to Console because his obession with graphics was ruining his love of actually playing video games. Was always so perpetually disappointed and disgusted by graphics of video games that he was starting to lose all love and passion for video games as a whole. The night and day transformation of this mans attitude once he gave up being a PC gamer was unbelieveable. He started to actually love games again, he would instead start raving about how fun this was, or how great that was etc etc. He actually started to move into the scene of retro games, who all graphically look like crap compared to modern standards, stuff he never even considered before. Getting worked up about graphics in video games, is just ridiculous. I make it a point in life, to never debate anyone about graphics because to me, that is not a debate worth having. Yeah you never see Xbox and PlayStation fanboys fighting about graphical superiority. As to the topic on hand, I think gamers should call out E3 bullshot nonsense. And not every AAA dev does it, Bethesda comes to mind.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 10, 2019 13:00:48 GMT
I'm surprised people are actually defending this. Every game that had a downgrade got hate for it. Even Witcher 3 had *some* backlash over it but the game itself was so good that people let that slide. With Anthem tho, this game has so many problems at launch that it is just sad that even graphics and detail in environments got downgraded by quite a lot. It didn’t though, not by much Seriously, Anthem still looks stunning on high end PCs. People only care at all because they have other problems with Anthem and are looking for any way to give shit to the developers.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 10, 2019 13:01:15 GMT
whining about graphics is the most hilarious thing about games I've ever seen in all my years as a gamer. It's also typically something only PC gamers care about. Because in the words of a coworker of mine, who was once a loyal member of the Cult of Alienware, "Why would you play console if you care at all about graphics?" This is a guy who would spend HOURS fiddleing with Video settings for Shadow of Mordor because the cape had to look just right, and by the time he finally got it how he wanted it, he was tired of looking at the game and turned it off. He moved to Console because his obession with graphics was ruining his love of actually playing video games. Was always so perpetually disappointed and disgusted by graphics of video games that he was starting to lose all love and passion for video games as a whole. The night and day transformation of this mans attitude once he gave up being a PC gamer was unbelieveable. He started to actually love games again, he would instead start raving about how fun this was, or how great that was etc etc. He actually started to move into the scene of retro games, who all graphically look like crap compared to modern standards, stuff he never even considered before. Getting worked up about graphics in video games, is just ridiculous. I make it a point in life, to never debate anyone about graphics because to me, that is not a debate worth having. Yeah you never see Xbox and PlayStation fanboys fighting about graphical superiority. As to the topic on hand, I think gamers should call out E3 bullshot nonsense. And not every AAA dev does it, Bethesda comes to mind. E3 is the Video game version of this... To get upset about E3, is to be upset with the way any for-profit company promotes itself. You are of course allowed to be upset by how that works, but unless you are just frothing at the mouth, raging at every single TV ad, every McDonalds employee etc for "lying" to you, then this argument has no merit in my eyes. Because E3 is not for gamers, and it never really has been. E3 is for share holders, for corporate interests. E3 is a showcase for developers and publishers to promote themselves to potential future investors, to show them an example of their product in order to gain patronage. People have to remember that the consumer is not the customer, in the eyes of the publishers. It is the investors. E3 is a week long ad campaign for customers, akin to seeing a marathon of McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's etc commercials. So sure, get mad at the fakery that has always been E3. So long as you also hold that same position for every company ever, because they all use the same methods. If you do not, then in my opinion, you have no right to complain about it.
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mgsmsc
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Post by mgsmsc on Mar 10, 2019 13:09:39 GMT
When I was in school English class I was taught that to have a story you needed a plot and to have a story you had to have the narrative (written word) that explains or defines the plot hence you get a story. so to me narrative is that which tells a story. One of the current hot phrases is "narrative driven games", which always makes me giggle, because about a decade ago the term "narrative driven fiction" appeared to describe some novels and people were trying to figure out what the fuck it actually meant Some said it was plot driven, some said it was the opposite of plot driven, some said it had less action ... nobody knew. Check out this archived forum page where people tried to figure it out: absolutewrite.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-143214.htmlIt went nowhere, so they went to the forum where you could ask literary a literary agent some questions. Nobody there could figure it out either lol absolutewrite.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-143368.htmlI assume in games it's just used to separate games that have a heavy emphasis on story. Should be "story driven games" but whatever On narration etc. Narrative can be used as a noun or an adjective. As a noun it is often used as a synonym for a story. I prefer the adjective which infers the presence of narration and some kind of narrator eg Duncan, Varel and Varric when describing events at the prologue or epilogue in DA. "Narrative driven," doesn't make much sense as they are using it to describe but don't seem to be referring to having a narrator. I have read of "story driven" when differentiating from "character driven," so I assume that's what they are getting at. IMO Bioware at their best were able to give both these things and connect it to the gameplay aspect in a way that keeps both side quests relevant and the main story immersing.
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Garo
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Garo on Mar 10, 2019 13:31:27 GMT
You people are forgetting it is not just a slight graphical downgrade. The map looks different, facial animations look different, quests look different, these big walking things shown at E3 do not walk, environments are less detailed, the number of NPC's got reduced, lightning looks worse etc.
But yes, of course, E3 is not the most reliable source of information about games. But on top of these downgrades Anthem just barely works as a looter shooter game.
So yes, we were lied to. Because we were promised a lot and got very little.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 10, 2019 16:56:08 GMT
You people are forgetting it is not just a slight graphical downgrade. The map looks different, facial animations look different, quests look different, these big walking things shown at E3 do not walk, environments are less detailed, the number of NPC's got reduced, lightning looks worse etc. But yes, of course, E3 is not the most reliable source of information about games. But on top of these downgrades Anthem just barely works as a looter shooter game. So yes, we were lied to. Because we were promised a lot and got very little. No, you're wrong. Everything you just said is either exaggerated, made up, or just wrong. You're just looking for ways to **** on Bioware for various reasons. You're all wrong. /s
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 10, 2019 17:10:46 GMT
As to the topic on hand, I think gamers should call out E3 bullshot nonsense. And not every AAA dev does it, Bethesda comes to mind. Did you really just write Bethesda and "not ... does it" in the same sentence? The logical consequence of that will be a chilling effect on cool, exciting E3 trailers. If they aren't pixel-perfect actual gameplay of the final release build that will ship that day, why run the risk of accusations of false advertising? If that's what you want, go right ahead. But let me offer an alternative: Assume every E3 trailer won't look like the final game, even if it has an "actual gameplay" banner on it. Assume that it is meant to give you a rough idea of the look and feel of the game, but isn't intended as any kind of promise/contract/commitment, and the final release will look and feel differently, guaranteed. It's meant to get you excited about the game and put it on your interest radar, but separately, no one should be pre-ordering anything for any reason, that's just dumb. Games should be judged by their final release, and, ideally, a free public beta that comes late in the release cycle, but not by anything that comes before. What possible harm could come from that approach?
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 10, 2019 17:18:18 GMT
As to the topic on hand, I think gamers should call out E3 bullshot nonsense. And not every AAA dev does it, Bethesda comes to mind. Did you really just write Bethesda and "not ... does it" in the same sentence?The logical consequence of that will be a chilling effect on cool, exciting E3 trailers. If they aren't pixel-perfect actual gameplay of the final release build that will ship that day, why run the risk of accusations of false advertising? If that's what you want, go right ahead. But let me offer an alternative: Assume every E3 trailer won't look like the final game, even if it has an "actual gameplay" banner on it. Assume that it is meant to give you a rough idea of the look and feel of the game, but isn't intended as any kind of promise/contract/commitment, and the final release will look and feel differently, guaranteed. It's meant to get you excited about the game and put it on your interest radar, but separately, no one should be pre-ordering anything for any reason, that's just dumb. Games should be judged by their final release, and, ideally, a free public beta that comes late in the release cycle, but not by anything that comes before. What possible harm could come from that approach?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 10, 2019 17:19:11 GMT
"Narrative driven," doesn't make much sense as they are using it to describe but don't seem to be referring to having a narrator. I have read of "story driven" when differentiating from "character driven," so I assume that's what they are getting at. When I use "narrative driven", I mean how the game tells the story. Ideally, gameplay and story support each other. Bioshock is often used as an example of how gameplay and game visuals tell part of the story, thus "narrative driven" rather than "combat driven" or "achievement driven." It's much more typical for gameplay and story to be completely independent, sometimes to an absurd degree, thus " ludonarrative dissonance." For example, a story about a pacifist and a lover of animals where the gameplay is about hunting down every species of wild animal to extinction. If such a hypothetical game existed, the game wouldn't be narrative driven. When gameplay and story are in consonance, and when how the story is told is reflected in many, if not most, of the game design decisions, that's narrative driven. Using another hypothetical, a game about an animal lover where the gameplay is about rescuing animals and preventing, in non-violent ways, poachers from hunting them down to extinction, and making game design decisions where animals are rendered in extremely accurate detail, in both appearance and behavior, and you can spend hours tracking and observing these animals through really smooth and quality-of-life efficient gameplay mechanics, would be narrative driven.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 17:51:52 GMT
The game has lots of issues … some of which BioWare has resolved, others … not yet or perhaps never.
But as far as facial animations are concerned … they are quite extraordinary. In part of the story, I faced a bug that until I figured out how to get around it, resulted in me replaying a story segment over and over. Rather than get up and go out of the room while that part played out, I studied it. The facial animations were really quite impressive.
I'd paid attention to the NPCs up to that point, but after that, I paid more attention to their facial expressions. After the final boss battle for the story … the story continues … at first for some "wrap up loose ends" missions, then some side stories that don't involve missions … but perhaps foreshadow future missions. There are conversations with NPCs that are really quite the thing. Yes, I'm on PC and running everything on either high or ultimate, regardless … there is a galaxy of difference in the facial animations of characters in Anthem as compared to the final patched version of Andromeda.
If you think facial animations in Anthem are poor … perhaps it's different on console, perhaps you're on PC playing on low settings … or perhaps you haven't actually played the game. Anthem may have 99 problems, but facial animations ain' one of them.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 10, 2019 17:52:46 GMT
As to the topic on hand, I think gamers should call out E3 bullshot nonsense. And not every AAA dev does it, Bethesda comes to mind. Did you really just write Bethesda and "not ... does it" in the same sentence? The logical consequence of that will be a chilling effect on cool, exciting E3 trailers. If they aren't pixel-perfect actual gameplay of the final release build that will ship that day, why run the risk of accusations of false advertising? If that's what you want, go right ahead. But let me offer an alternative: Assume every E3 trailer won't look like the final game, even if it has an "actual gameplay" banner on it. Assume that it is meant to give you a rough idea of the look and feel of the game, but isn't intended as any kind of promise/contract/commitment, and the final release will look and feel differently, guaranteed. It's meant to get you excited about the game and put it on your interest radar, but separately, no one should be pre-ordering anything for any reason, that's just dumb. Games should be judged by their final release, and, ideally, a free public beta that comes late in the release cycle, but not by anything that comes before. What possible harm could come from that approach? They'd still be advertising a game that doesn't exist, so no, I'm not down with that at all. Do a CGI trailer if you want to generate hype. From a visuals standpoint, Bethesda really doesn't do bullshots and they never have. And since only some companies do it, how is that fair? On the contrary, they'd build more good will by being honest with their customers. That's what gamers want. And there would be no chilling effect. Every Beth game has shown real gameplay footage and outside of 76, the hype was off the charts. I don't buy this nonsense that E3 is just for investors either. It's obviously geared toward the market as well, ie; the fans.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 10, 2019 18:47:16 GMT
I'm surprised people are actually defending this. Every game that had a downgrade got hate for it. Even Witcher 3 had *some* backlash over it but the game itself was so good that people let that slide. With Anthem tho, this game has so many problems at launch that it is just sad that even graphics and detail in environments got downgraded by quite a lot. It didn’t though, not by much Seriously, Anthem still looks stunning on high end PCs. People only care at all because they have other problems with Anthem and are looking for any way to give shit to the developers. Yeah, and even the main dialogue cutscenes are well animated like the original footage, minus some finer details. We don’t have that Praxley scene, but in the hub that sort of encounter doesn’t work anyway unless the entire encounter is scripted. This whole graphics bit is hugely overblown.
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Post by mgsmsc on Mar 10, 2019 20:28:57 GMT
"Narrative driven," doesn't make much sense as they are using it to describe but don't seem to be referring to having a narrator. I have read of "story driven" when differentiating from "character driven," so I assume that's what they are getting at. When I use "narrative driven", I mean how the game tells the story. Ideally, gameplay and story support each other. Bioshock is often used as an example of how gameplay and game visuals tell part of the story, thus "narrative driven" rather than "combat driven" or "achievement driven." It's much more typical for gameplay and story to be completely independent, sometimes to an absurd degree, thus " ludonarrative dissonance." For example, a story about a pacifist and a lover of animals where the gameplay is about hunting down every species of wild animal to extinction. If such a hypothetical game existed, the game wouldn't be narrative driven. When gameplay and story are in consonance, and when how the story is told is reflected in many, if not most, of the game design decisions, that's narrative driven. Using another hypothetical, a game about an animal lover where the gameplay is about rescuing animals and preventing, in non-violent ways, poachers from hunting them down to extinction, and making game design decisions where animals are rendered in extremely accurate detail, in both appearance and behavior, and you can spend hours tracking and observing these animals through really smooth and quality-of-life efficient gameplay mechanics, would be narrative driven. I see why they would use that phrase in the context of a game - thanks for that. I hadn't really considered the gameplay as a sort of narrative in itself but I often consider the coherence of both that and conventional storytelling as behind my enjoying Dragon Age and Mass Effect. Ludonarrative dissonance - you learn something new every day! Thanks for the link, perhaps this might be a much simpler way of describing why I enjoyed Inquisition and struggled with Andromeda. There are other factors of course but its an interesting avenue.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 10, 2019 20:42:06 GMT
The game has lots of issues … some of which BioWare has resolved, others … not yet or perhaps never.
But as far as facial animations are concerned … they are quite extraordinary. In part of the story, I faced a bug that until I figured out how to get around it, resulted in me replaying a story segment over and over. Rather than get up and go out of the room while that part played out, I studied it. The facial animations were really quite impressive.
I'd paid attention to the NPCs up to that point, but after that, I paid more attention to their facial expressions. After the final boss battle for the story … the story continues … at first for some "wrap up loose ends" missions, then some side stories that don't involve missions … but perhaps foreshadow future missions. There are conversations with NPCs that are really quite the thing. Yes, I'm on PC and running everything on either high or ultimate, regardless … there is a galaxy of difference in the facial animations of characters in Anthem as compared to the final patched version of Andromeda.
If you think facial animations in Anthem are poor … perhaps it's different on console, perhaps you're on PC playing on low settings … or perhaps you haven't actually played the game. Anthem may have 99 problems, but facial animations ain' one of them. You took the words from my mouth. Minus the bugged part.
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2550
0
1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 10, 2019 22:38:30 GMT
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inherit
N7
289
0
8,011
Terminator Force
4,312
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 10, 2019 22:56:17 GMT
I'm surprised people are actually defending this. Every game that had a downgrade got hate for it. Even Witcher 3 had *some* backlash over it but the game itself was so good that people let that slide. With Anthem tho, this game has so many problems at launch that it is just sad that even graphics and detail in environments got downgraded by quite a lot. Matter of perspective. ie. Am not a fan of Witcher III gameplay, among other things. But to others they just need a good story for a 10/10. Anthem? Not a fan of story, but because I enjoy the gameplay and atmosphere, could see myself maybe giving it a 10/10. And you all realize those graphics aren't possible on PS4/X-Bone, right? Therefore a graphical downgrade is not possible, more like they were upgraded exclusively for the E3 trailer.
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inherit
N7
289
0
8,011
Terminator Force
4,312
August 2016
terminatorforce
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
TerminatorForce2
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 10, 2019 23:00:17 GMT
You people are forgetting it is not just a slight graphical downgrade. The map looks different, facial animations look different, quests look different, these big walking things shown at E3 do not walk, environments are less detailed, the number of NPC's got reduced, lightning looks worse etc.But yes, of course, E3 is not the most reliable source of information about games. But on top of these downgrades Anthem just barely works as a looter shooter game. So yes, we were lied to. Because we were promised a lot and got very little. ^ Mass Effect, one year prior to release.
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