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Post by SirSourpuss on May 26, 2019 14:09:13 GMT
Regardless of what may have happened to Bioware, it still holds that all the negative input from the fans hasn't improved anything Well, I mean, if I told my child "don't shoot yourself in the foot" and then my child goes on and does that regardless, obviously I am a bad parent for letting my child carry a gun in the first place, but it would have been nice if it had listened to me, instead of ignoring me. You are arguing that it's the fanbase's fault, that Bioware is doing whatever they want. None of the things they've done so far has anything to do with what the fanbase wants, or, let me rephrase, at least nothing that they've done so far is what the divisive part of the fanbase wants. BTW, I don't really like DAO either. Like TW3, it just doesn't float my boat... and that's why you don't see me on the DA forums here either. I don't think DA:O is bad, I liked it quite a bit, but it lost me with DA2 and on. I ... have a hard time getting back on a fantasy RPG setting, nowadays and the events DA4 is rumoured to explore are so closely tied to those of DA:I that I don't think I will be able to jump into it. I guess I'm just not meant to follow that franchise any longer and is why I am also not vocal about it. People working on it, however, seem to be more cheery and optimistic about it. Seeing how EA promised Joplin's reboot into Morrison a full production cycle extension, i.e. about four years more, it's definitely not coming for PS4/XBONEX and maybe the new Frostbyte engine that we got this tech demo for a few days ago will be more friendly to work with. I have no further input to give DA4, but giving Iron Bull a floss emote animation and renaming him into the Flossing Bull, as Salos, I think it was Salos, said a while back, would make my day. BTW, that Salos guy looks really familiar, but I just can't put my finger on it. Oh well, guess I'll never know.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2019 16:20:30 GMT
Regardless of what may have happened to Bioware, it still holds that all the negative input from the fans hasn't improved anything Well, I mean, if I told my child "don't shoot yourself in the foot" and then my child goes on and does that regardless, obviously I am a bad parent for letting my child carry a gun in the first place, but it would have been nice if it had listened to me, instead of ignoring me. You are arguing that it's the fanbase's fault, that Bioware is doing whatever they want. None of the things they've done so far has anything to do with what the fanbase wants, or, let me rephrase, at least nothing that they've done so far is what the divisive part of the fanbase wants. BTW, I don't really like DAO either. Like TW3, it just doesn't float my boat... and that's why you don't see me on the DA forums here either. I don't think DA:O is bad, I liked it quite a bit, but it lost me with DA2 and on. I ... have a hard time getting back on a fantasy RPG setting, nowadays and the events DA4 is rumoured to explore are so closely tied to those of DA:I that I don't think I will be able to jump into it. I guess I'm just not meant to follow that franchise any longer and is why I am also not vocal about it. People working on it, however, seem to be more cheery and optimistic about it. Seeing how EA promised Joplin's reboot into Morrison a full production cycle extension, i.e. about four years more, it's definitely not coming for PS4/XBONEX and maybe the new Frostbyte engine that we got this tech demo for a few days ago will be more friendly to work with. I have no further input to give DA4, but giving Iron Bull a floss emote animation and renaming him into the Flossing Bull, as Salos, I think it was Salos, said a while back, would make my day. BTW, that Salos guy looks really familiar, but I just can't put my finger on it. Oh well, guess I'll never know. I'm not arguing 'who's at fault" at all... that's useless. I'm saying that this is where we at, if we want things to improve maybe it's time we (as fans) tried something different (positive encouragement of the devs) rather than reverting to the same old bickering that hasn't done anything good in 7 years... regardless of who's fault you may think it is. Who's at fault doesn't matter at this point in the game. Do we want better games from Bioware or not and are we (as fans) willing to do something different to get them? That's the relavent question.
I'm not saying DAO is bad... I'm saying I didn't like it. IMO, for the most part, games are not inherently "good' or "bad" because liking them is, more often than not, a matter of personal taste. Some are more popular with certain groups of people than others. As a result of not liking DAO, I haven't even broken the plastic on my DA2 and DAI discs.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 26, 2019 18:11:49 GMT
Do we want better games from Bioware or not and are we (as fans) willing to do something different to get them? That's the relavent question. My answer to that is "Yes" and "I'm trying". IMO, for the most part, games are not inherently "good' or "bad" because liking them is, more often than not, a matter of personal taste Games are inherently good or bad, though. If you make a fighting game and lock it to 30fps, for example, that is a bad choice, making it a bad game. There is a number of issues that a game can face that would relegate it to a bad game. The fact that, say, a game's writing is subpar, is subject to general writing standards and necessary sacrifices that need to be made in regards to the medium, but we know what good writing is. Bugs, glitches, infinite loading screens, overly long loading screens, connectivity issues, matchmaking and graphical issues are also things that subtract from a game, in a purely technical standpoint. Whether it doesn't bother you, or how minor you think it all is, that's subjective. |
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Post by alanc9 on May 27, 2019 14:23:50 GMT
Honestly, I have trouble perceiving the difference between 30 and more FPS -- I can do it, but I have to be intentionally looking for it.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 14:27:54 GMT
Do we want better games from Bioware or not and are we (as fans) willing to do something different to get them? That's the relavent question. My answer to that is "Yes" and "I'm trying". IMO, for the most part, games are not inherently "good' or "bad" because liking them is, more often than not, a matter of personal taste Games are inherently good or bad, though. If you make a fighting game and lock it to 30fps, for example, that is a bad choice, making it a bad game. There is a number of issues that a game can face that would relegate it to a bad game. The fact that, say, a game's writing is subpar, is subject to general writing standards and necessary sacrifices that need to be made in regards to the medium, but we know what good writing is. Bugs, glitches, infinite loading screens, overly long loading screens, connectivity issues, matchmaking and graphical issues are also things that subtract from a game, in a purely technical standpoint. Whether it doesn't bother you, or how minor you think it all is, that's subjective. By flogging a mostly dead horse, it seems... rather than backing off and waiting to see if it can still stand up. There is a point (and we reached it long ago) where just stopping the whipping IS the right thing to do regardless of "fault" or "bad child" ideas. IF Bioware (and the industry) is going to creatively impress us again, it's got to come from inside their own hearts and minds... and to do that they have to find their desire and love for what they do again.
Bugs and glitches are quantifiable. The reality is that the "writing" is not and is, for the most part, a matter of taste. What passes for a great line in one game gets derided as a ridiculous one in another. ME1 has its share of ridiculous lines and ME:A has its share of good ones. ME1 also has a long list of "things that don't make sense" and some notable inconsistencies in the plot. TW3 contains some objectively bad writing - For example, "gimme" is not a word but it's used extensively in the written dialogue. The writing of TW3 is not in my taste, it doesn't mean that I or anyone can say it's inherently bad or good based on liking or not liking the story. The same holds true for both ME1 and Andromeda's stories.
As for FPS issues, I was watching a Youtuber just the other day commenting on such issues still persistent in ME1; even when now running it on a more powerful system than it was originally designed for (i.e. Xbox One vs. Xbox 360). In fact, numerous Youtubers I've watched playing ME1 recently have complained about it regardless of the system they are playing it on. ME1 never ran very smoothly... even on my Xbox 360... and it has always had its share of glitches (e.g. NPC's getting stuck in walls all over the place, particularly when biotics are used.)... yet, even I would say ME1 was a "good game." DA:O on the other hand is simply a game I don't like... it's not to my taste.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 15:31:11 GMT
By flogging a mostly dead horse, it seems. There is a point (and we reached it long ago) where just stopping the whipping IS the right thing to do regardless of "fault" or "bad child" ideas. If by "flogging a dead horse" you mean me saying "let's not do that again" when the aforementioned "that" proved a failure the first time and the second time, then yes, I will flog that horse as many times as I have to and I will argue the people that push against it. Trying it a third time is madness. IF Bioware (and the industry) is going to creatively impress us again, it's got to come from inside their own hearts and minds... and to do that they have to find their desire and love for what they do again. No, first they need to find some peace of mind from the crunch to be able to deliver. They need to make something that will afford them some peace of mind and will allow them to grow. They need to get people back on board. You can argue that anything they decide to make next, can be sold with a good trailer and yes, they did do that with Anthem, which was a completely fabricated trailer and that burnt them a lot of trust and good will. And by all means, be creative, but be creative when you can afford to be. The next time people will hear about "Bioware's next ambitious project" they're going to think "great, another game that will be mismanaged, stuck in pre-production for far too long, won't deliver on what's promised but the very bare minimum, will be priced way too high and will be abandoned by the dev/community, before it gets fixed". And that is a worry that's very real and won't afford you any peace of mind. And, once again I'm not going to give an absolute "don't do it", by all means, do it, but NOT NOW. Climb out of the grave you've pretty much dug yourself into and from there, do whatever the fuck you want. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 15:40:34 GMT
By flogging a mostly dead horse, it seems. There is a point (and we reached it long ago) where just stopping the whipping IS the right thing to do regardless of "fault" or "bad child" ideas. If by "flogging a dead horse" you mean me saying "let's not do that again" when the aforementioned "that" proved a failure the first time and the second time, then yes, I will flog that horse as many times as I have to and I will argue the people that push against it. Trying it a third time is madness. IF Bioware (and the industry) is going to creatively impress us again, it's got to come from inside their own hearts and minds... and to do that they have to find their desire and love for what they do again. No, first they need to find some peace of mind from the crunch to be able to deliver. They need to make something that will afford them some peace of mind and will allow them to grow. They need to get people back on board. You can argue that anything they decide to make next, can be sold with a good trailer and yes, they did do that with Anthem, which was a completely fabricated trailer and that burnt them a lot of trust and good will. And by all means, be creative, but be creative when you can afford to be. The next time people will hear about "Bioware's next ambitious project" they're going to think "great, another game that will be mismanaged, stuck in pre-production for far too long, won't deliver on what's promised but the very bare minimum, will be priced way too high and will be abandoned by the dev/community, before it gets fixed". And that is a worry that's very real and won't afford you any peace of mind. And, once again I'm not going to give an absolute "don't do it", by all means, do it, but NOT NOW. Climb out of the grave you've pretty much dug yourself into and from there, do whatever the fuck you want. I said "flogging a MOSTLY dead horse." You have more to gain by backing off before it actually becomes "flogging a dead horse" because a "mostly dead horse" has a shot at actually proving to you that it has heeded your message. Flogging a dead horse is truly pointless... but continue if you wish. It just proves how you're more concerned about satisfying your need to flog as opposed to allowing Bioware to create a better game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 17:07:32 GMT
I said "flogging a MOSTLY dead horse." I just want to point out that it's not a good analogy. At that point, you put the horse down, because horses have terrible self-healing properties and you would be basically condemning the horse to a lifetime of misery. You have more to gain by backing off before it actually becomes "flogging a dead horse" because a "mostly dead horse" has a shot at actually proving to you that it has heeded your message. Flogging a dead horse is truly pointless... but continue if you wish. It just proves how you're more concerned about satisfying your need to flog as opposed to allowing Bioware to create a better game. You seem to think that the "dead horse" I am referring to is Anthem, or Andromeda themselves. Those games are already out and have done their respective damage to the Bioware name. For those games, Bioware can do whatever they want. Support them, drop them, relaunch them, it's all up to them. No, what I am talking about is what do they do, moving forward. And "another trend chasing, overly ambitious project that will leave the staff gasping for breath, while everyone in the mainstream gaming media is roasting them" is what I want to avoid. Do you think I am in the wrong for wanting to avoid this? |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 17:33:23 GMT
I said "flogging a MOSTLY dead horse." I just want to point out that it's not a good analogy. At that point, you put the horse down, because horses have terrible self-healing properties and you would be basically condemning the horse to a lifetime of misery. You have more to gain by backing off before it actually becomes "flogging a dead horse" because a "mostly dead horse" has a shot at actually proving to you that it has heeded your message. Flogging a dead horse is truly pointless... but continue if you wish. It just proves how you're more concerned about satisfying your need to flog as opposed to allowing Bioware to create a better game. You seem to think that the "dead horse" I am referring to is Anthem, or Andromeda themselves. Those games are already out and have done their respective damage to the Bioware name. For those games, Bioware can do whatever they want. Support them, drop them, relaunch them, it's all up to them. No, what I am talking about is what do they do, moving forward. And "another trend chasing, overly ambitious project that will leave the staff gasping for breath, while everyone in the mainstream gaming media is roasting them" is what I want to avoid. Do you think I am in the wrong for wanting to avoid this? NO, I'm clearly not talking about Andromeda or Anthem themselves. I'm talking about Bioware itself and its staff morale. They don't need your negative direction moving forward... they need rediscover their own inspiration. Your slip is a freudian one since you're clearly not interested in even checking if the subject of your flogging still has a pulse... or the will to stand up and try yet again. Just like the flogging of both Andromeda and Anthem began BEFORE the games released, you're already started flogging their next endeavor being "overly ambitious" etc. Rather than waiting to see what they respond with (or even whether or not they can respond with anything), you're back to flogging... makiing sure you kill them outright?
On the other thread, others point out that it's easier to convince people to reinstall a game they've already purchased if appropriate improvements to it are made (and the biggest complaint I've heard about Anthem now is a lack of new content that was promised), you respond with a singular example about your particularly slow internet... not to mention that the least ambitious thing Bioware could do right is simply add content to Anthem... which is not a completely dead horse yet.
The least ambitious thing they could do right now with Mass Effect is to release a simple (read SIMPLE) remaster of the OT packaged with an improved Andromeda and an Andromeda DLC/expansion pack (since that uses assets already in Frostbite)... with the DLC/expansion also available separately for those who don't want to purchase the entire package... but you're flogging away for them to completely abandon Andromeda and start a rewrite of the OT (with a risky selection of a canon ending that could easily backfire if not "done right").
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 17:50:26 GMT
They don't need your negative direction moving forward... they need rediscover their own inspiration. So you are clearly not reading what I am writing, which is cool. You can go back and re-read it if you want, or not. Your slip is a freudian one since you're clearly not interested in even checking if the subject of your flogging still has a pulse That is not what a freudian slip is, since there is no "mostly" dead horse saying. If anything this is a Schroedinger's horse, in this case, type of situation. And even so, mostly dead or flat out dead, is not the kind of situation I would like to find myself in, in the first place. And what's flogging a "mostly" dead horse about the roasting Andromeda? or Anthem? It's been done to death at this point. There is no mostly. It is as painful to see it, for me, as it is probably painful for the Bioware devs to hear it. That is not what I want for them to experience again, going forward. Just like the flogging of both Andromeda and Anthem began BEFORE the games released, you're already started flogging their next endeavor being "overly ambitious" etc So Andromeda trying to do No Man's Sky, but even better than No Man's Sky, by adding the Bioware twist in an already unprecedented premise was not overly ambitious? Or Bioware taking on the Looter Shooter genre, which they had never done before, but with Bioware's branching narrative design to the story was not ambitious either? Rather than waiting to see what they respond with (or even whether or not they can respond with anything), you're back to flogging... makiing sure you kill them outright? And this is the part where I redirect you to my previous comment, again. Let me quote myself here: "another trend chasing, overly ambitious project that will leave the staff gasping for breath, while everyone in the mainstream gaming media is roasting them" is what I want to avoid Please, tell me, in your own words what I am saying here. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 17:55:21 GMT
They don't need your negative direction moving forward... they need rediscover their own inspiration. So you are clearly not reading what I am writing, which is cool. You can go back and re-read it if you want, or not. Your slip is a freudian one since you're clearly not interested in even checking if the subject of your flogging still has a pulse That is not what a freudian slip is, since there is no "mostly" dead horse saying. If anything this is a Schroedinger's horse, in this case, type of situation. And even so, mostly dead or flat out dead, is not the kind of situation I would like to find myself in, in the first place. And what's flogging a "mostly" dead horse about the roasting Andromeda? or Anthem? It's been done to death at this point. There is no mostly. It is as painful to see it, for me, as it is probably painful for the Bioware devs to hear it. That is not what I want for them to experience again, going forward. Just like the flogging of both Andromeda and Anthem began BEFORE the games released, you're already started flogging their next endeavor being "overly ambitious" etc So Andromeda trying to do No Man's Sky, but even better than No Man's Sky, by adding the Bioware twist in an already unprecedented premise was not overly ambitious? Or Bioware taking on the Looter Shooter genre, which they had never done before, but with Bioware's branching narrative design to the story was not ambitious either? Rather than waiting to see what they respond with (or even whether or not they can respond with anything), you're back to flogging... makiing sure you kill them outright? And this is the part where I redirect you to my previous comment, again. Let me quote myself here: "another trend chasing, overly ambitious project that will leave the staff gasping for breath, while everyone in the mainstream gaming media is roasting them" is what I want to avoid Please, tell me, in your own words what I am saying here. Read my addendum since it clearly explains why adding content to Anthem is not "overly ambitious" for Bioware at this point in time and why continuing on with an Andromeda sequel would not be the 'overly ambitious" choice at this time vs. going back to the same point we were at 7 years ago and starting again to try to proceed with another "different" OT sequel (abandoning Andromeda altogether).
... and I believe I used "Freudian slip' correctly - Definition "an unintentional error regarded as revealing subconscious feelings." I intentionally changed the saying to reflect the fact that Bioware is not dead yet but does have a significant problem with its staffing. Your response allegedly quoted me... but it misquoted me.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 18:23:57 GMT
adding content to Anthem is not "overly ambitious" But that is not what I am referring to when I say "the next overly ambitious project". Anthem was an overly ambitious project, which is why it launched in the state that it did and why it got roasted on release and why that leaves a stigma behind for Bioware, one that the mainstream gaming media will be quick to remind their audience with fresh clickbaity videos and articles in regular intervals. Trying to fix Anthem, while a good way to make up for that, I don't think will win them any favours and it's not a guarantee that Anthem won't be a repeat for their next title, i.e. the "next overly ambitious project" that I am referring to and not Anthem, it's current state, or the task of further supporting it. why continuing on with an Andromeda sequel would not be the 'overly ambitious" choice at this time That depends on whether they try to remake the Andromeda vision again and it still doesn't get every clickbait youtuber and the article writer of the mainstream gaming media off your back. vs. going back to the same point we were at 7 years ago and starting again to try to proceed with another "different" OT sequel (abandoning Andromeda altogether). I am not asking to abandon Andromeda altogether. I'm saying that going back to it RIGHT NOW is not going to earn them any favours. The way I see it, you got two options: do what everyone expects you to, i.e. Andromeda 2 and get shat on royally by everyone, or do the thing nobody expects you to, i.e. address people's problems of ME3 and earn a wow moment. That shuts everyone up and then you can go on with your vision of Andromeda 2 unhindered, while also giving you time to develop in-house tools so you can make Andromeda 2 the best you want it to be. I don't think I am proposing something that unreasonable.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2019 21:37:47 GMT
vs. going back to the same point we were at 7 years ago and starting again to try to proceed with another "different" OT sequel (abandoning Andromeda altogether). I am not asking to abandon Andromeda altogether. I'm saying that going back to it RIGHT NOW is not going to earn them any favours. The way I see it, you got two options: do what everyone expects you to, i.e. Andromeda 2 and get shat on royally by everyone, or do the thing nobody expects you to, i.e. address people's problems of ME3 and earn a wow moment. That shuts everyone up and then you can go on with your vision of Andromeda 2 unhindered, while also giving you time to develop in-house tools so you can make Andromeda 2 the best you want it to be. I don't think I am proposing something that unreasonable. So your suggestion is to screw over fans like me twice? First by not making another MEA game for the foreseeable future, and second by ruining our Shepard Trilogy? Thanks but no thanks, I'll take option one and just have the next game be the MEA sequel.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 22:16:06 GMT
So your suggestion is to screw over fans like me twice? First by not making another MEA game for the foreseeable future, and second by ruining our Shepard Trilogy? Thanks but no thanks, I'll take option one and just have the next game be the MEA sequel. Just take the option that possibly burns Bioware down. No biggie. You refuse to see the big picture and try to paint yourself as the victim, when potentially hundreds of people might lose their jobs and also rob people and yourself as well, of further Bioware games. You're too short sighted. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2019 22:21:50 GMT
So your suggestion is to screw over fans like me twice? First by not making another MEA game for the foreseeable future, and second by ruining our Shepard Trilogy? Thanks but no thanks, I'll take option one and just have the next game be the MEA sequel. Just take the option that possibly burns Bioware down. No biggie. You refuse to see the big picture and try to paint yourself as the victim, when potentially hundreds of people might lose their jobs and also rob people and yourself as well, of further Bioware games. You're too short sighted.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 22:24:06 GMT
Just take the option that possibly burns Bioware down. No biggie. You refuse to see the big picture and try to paint yourself as the victim, when potentially hundreds of people might lose their jobs and also rob people and yourself as well, of further Bioware games. You're too short sighted. Not wanting to listen to reason and resorting to memes. No arguments, mind you, just memes.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2019 22:26:18 GMT
Not wanting to listen to reason and resorting to memes. No arguments, mind you, just memes. The moment you start posting reason I’ll listen to it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 22:29:35 GMT
adding content to Anthem is not "overly ambitious" But that is not what I am referring to when I say "the next overly ambitious project". Anthem was an overly ambitious project, which is why it launched in the state that it did and why it got roasted on release and why that leaves a stigma behind for Bioware, one that the mainstream gaming media will be quick to remind their audience with fresh clickbaity videos and articles in regular intervals. Trying to fix Anthem, while a good way to make up for that, I don't think will win them any favours and it's not a guarantee that Anthem won't be a repeat for their next title, i.e. the "next overly ambitious project" that I am referring to and not Anthem, it's current state, or the task of further supporting it. why continuing on with an Andromeda sequel would not be the 'overly ambitious" choice at this time That depends on whether they try to remake the Andromeda vision again and it still doesn't get every clickbait youtuber and the article writer of the mainstream gaming media off your back. vs. going back to the same point we were at 7 years ago and starting again to try to proceed with another "different" OT sequel (abandoning Andromeda altogether). I am not asking to abandon Andromeda altogether. I'm saying that going back to it RIGHT NOW is not going to earn them any favours. The way I see it, you got two options: do what everyone expects you to, i.e. Andromeda 2 and get shat on royally by everyone, or do the thing nobody expects you to, i.e. address people's problems of ME3 and earn a wow moment. That shuts everyone up and then you can go on with your vision of Andromeda 2 unhindered, while also giving you time to develop in-house tools so you can make Andromeda 2 the best you want it to be. I don't think I am proposing something that unreasonable. Trying to address people's problems with the Trilogy is not a "less ambitious" project than just proceeding with the already envisioned Andromeda sequel (since they obvious expected to go to a sequel game or else the hints for the future would not have been injected into the Andromeda ending nor would there have been so many loose ends left open). Revisiting the OT problems takes us right back to square one of 7 years ago... a do over. If Andromeda was overly ambitious, any "new' OT sequel is equally overly ambitious. It not only involves redoing Game 1 (replacing ME:A with a different idea) but also re-envisioning a sequel for that game. It's also highly unlikely that they can give people what they want... because the fan base, even when it comes to what sort of OT sequel should happen, are seriously divided... locked onto their personal visions of what that sequel should be. It goes deeper than the endings. Who did your Shepard romance and how do you carry all the possibilities forward into a forth when another person's vision of Shepard could be the polar opposite of yours - both gender-wise and personality-wise... or anything in between... even to the extent of killing of your chosen LI? Going with an OT sequel is highly unlikely to "shut people up." Then, if they "abandon" the new OT sequel to continue Andromeda... it almost certainly still won't be "unhindered" but met with vehement opposition... that is, we'd just change sides you and I... so you can cease with that little bit of sugar-coated wool over the eyes of Andromeda fans.
The less ambitious option is to continue on with Andromeda, but focus on making it a better game than Andromeda was. To me, it's obvious the Andromeda story was designed to start out with a "noob" who grows up into being a "Shepard" with the story having room to become more epic over a second and third game. The ground work is already done. There is nothing that can be written into the OT that is not, at this point, anti-climatic and nothing about exploring the "fake" MW that can't be designed into Andromeda exploration.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 22:31:25 GMT
The moment you start posting reason I’ll listen to it. I've explained my reason a thousand times and you still refuse to see it, let alone provide a fitting argument against it. Do you want me to make the same argument for the umpteenth time? I fail to see the point, when you repeatedly refuse to listen. Go over my last several posts in this thread. I am not being unreasonable, I am trying to find a viable middle ground and you refuse to even consider the possibility of it all. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2019 22:36:38 GMT
The moment you start posting reason I’ll listen to it. I've explained my reason a thousand times and you still refuse to see it, let alone provide a fitting argument against it. Do you want me to make the same argument for the umpteenth time? I fail to see the point, when you repeatedly refuse to listen. Go over my last several posts in this thread. I am not being unreasonable, I am trying to find a viable middle ground and you refuse to even consider the possibility of it all. You’re one to talk since you just wave anyone who disagrees with you as not seeing the big picture and stuff like that. Your idea is not a viable middle ground and is in fact a far more extreme idea that has all the risks you’re trying to stop increased exponentially. |
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 23:11:35 GMT
Trying to address people's problems with the Trilogy is not a "less ambitious" project than just proceeding with the already envisioned Andromeda sequel People have a lot lower expectations than you think. even when it comes to what sort of OT sequel should happen are seriously divided... locked onto their personal visions of what that sequel should be That is also untrue as I've exhibited in other arguments, because people differentiate their personal tastes and preferences from that of other people and realize that not everything works for everyone, but if you get enough stuff right, you can please them all. It's like saying people had no expectations of Avengers: Endgame or that in the year since Avengers: Infinity War, they had no personal preference in what they wanted to see. Why aren't people up in arms about that? Because they got enough stuff right. That's all it takes. And considering Bioware's recent track record, expectations will be low. It doesn't even have to be a sequel, I'm sure Bioware can figure it out. The final result may not be as good as some ideas out there, but it will be a whole lot better than most ideas out there and in the end, it will be better than not knowing. Then, if they "abandon" the new OT sequel to continue Andromeda... it almost certainly still won't be "unhindered" but met with vehement opposition Not if you conclude it nicely. I really do believe this is a make or break point for Bioware and Mass Effect. Either you deal with the ghosts of the past and either they leave you alone, or you let them haunt you still and possibly kill you. To me, it's obvious the Andromeda story was designed to start out with a "noob" who grows up into being a "Shepard" with the story having room to become more epic over a second and third game I think people right now will be averse to a return to Ryder, they will be apprehensive towards Andromeda and mistrustful of Bioware. And however wrong I may be on that assumption, the gaming media will make sure that I do prove myself right, shortly down the line. There is nothing that can be written into the OT that is not, at this point, anti-climatic and nothing about exploring the "fake" MW that can't be designed into Andromeda exploration. Andromeda was designed to become the MW, from the ground up and I hold no doubt that for the future of ME and Bioware it should continue. Just that now is not the right time. Right now the developer is under fire, the publisher is shat on regularly and the gaming community is either laughing its ass off or asking fervently for much needed explanations. You’re one to talk since you just wave anyone who disagrees with you as not seeing the big picture and stuff like that You have not presented a realistic scenario in which the course of action that I describe does not happen, because it will happen, because we've seen it happen and it has happened twice now. You are arguing that the third time will be the charm. Unless you try something different, the third time will be a tombstone. Your idea is not a viable middle ground and is in fact a far more extreme idea that has all the risks you’re trying to stop increased exponentially. It is not an extreme idea. You never go on to describe the risks, the only thing you describe is how it hurts your feelings and what you assume the vast majority of the gaming public has, when it has been exhibited not true by the reception and performance of at the very least the last two Bioware games by the wider gaming community. Your assumption is proven factually fallacious. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2019 23:30:47 GMT
Trying to address people's problems with the Trilogy is not a "less ambitious" project than just proceeding with the already envisioned Andromeda sequel People have a lot lower expectations than you think. even when it comes to what sort of OT sequel should happen are seriously divided... locked onto their personal visions of what that sequel should be That is also untrue as I've exhibited in other arguments, because people differentiate their personal tastes and preferences from that of other people and realize that not everything works for everyone, but if you get enough stuff right, you can please them all. It's like saying people had no expectations of Avengers: Endgame or that in the year since Avengers: Infinity War, they had no personal preference in what they wanted to see. Why aren't people up in arms about that? Because they got enough stuff right. That's all it takes. And considering Bioware's recent track record, expectations will be low. It doesn't even have to be a sequel, I'm sure Bioware can figure it out. The final result may not be as good as some ideas out there, but it will be a whole lot better than most ideas out there and in the end, it will be better than not knowing. Then, if they "abandon" the new OT sequel to continue Andromeda... it almost certainly still won't be "unhindered" but met with vehement opposition Not if you conclude it nicely. I really do believe this is a make or break point for Bioware and Mass Effect. Either you deal with the ghosts of the past and either they leave you alone, or you let them haunt you still and possibly kill you. To me, it's obvious the Andromeda story was designed to start out with a "noob" who grows up into being a "Shepard" with the story having room to become more epic over a second and third game I think people right now will be averse to a return to Ryder, they will be apprehensive towards Andromeda and mistrustful of Bioware. And however wrong I may be on that assumption, the gaming media will make sure that I do prove myself right, shortly down the line. There is nothing that can be written into the OT that is not, at this point, anti-climatic and nothing about exploring the "fake" MW that can't be designed into Andromeda exploration. Andromeda was designed to become the MW, from the ground up and I hold no doubt that for the future of ME and Bioware it should continue. Just that now is not the right time. Right now the developer is under fire, the publisher is shat on regularly and the gaming community is either laughing its ass off or asking fervently for much needed explanations. You’re one to talk since you just wave anyone who disagrees with you as not seeing the big picture and stuff like that You have not presented a realistic scenario in which the course of action that I describe does not happen, because it will happen, because we've seen it happen and it has happened twice now. You are arguing that the third time will be the charm. Unless you try something different, the third time will be a tombstone. Your idea is not a viable middle ground and is in fact a far more extreme idea that has all the risks you’re trying to stop increased exponentially. It is not an extreme idea. You never go on to describe the risks, the only thing you describe is how it hurts your feelings and what you assume the vast majority of the gaming public has, when it has been exhibited not true by the reception and performance of at the very least the last two Bioware games by the wider gaming community. Your assumption is proven factually fallacious. People have lower expectations about who Ryder might become than they do about their concept of who Shepard was for them. In Avengers Endgame, Cap didn't all of a sudden become female. The personalities of each Avenger was set by Marvel.... not an individual player.
You're glossing it over because it suits you and you fully expect that you're not the one who is going to have to make the most compromises. Let's start with a Bioware's fave then - a Synthesis ending and a Liara romance... will it please you? What if, in your opinion, they select all the decisions you don't ever make to build a sequel... would it please you? From all the arguing I've seen here over the last 7 years, I sincerely doubt it. If people are so willing to differentiate personal tastes, why can't the be accepting about Ryder growing up to become more Shepard-like? Why can't they accept that Andromeda works for some people and allow Bioware to go on from there? I think there's more evidence here to suggest they aren't as differential about personal tastes than you're now suggesting. Your whole argument is based on others giving in when you just simply won't - continue flogging, etc. On one hand, according to you, doing an Andromeda sequel will result in a huge backlash that you "fear"; but changing every aspect of your Shepard (and the personalities of innumerable other Shepards) into someone you would have never designed yourself would not only be met with meek acceptance, but also be giving everyone what they want? Sounds a little contradictory to me.
Then, you suggest that those same people would be so satisfied they would suddenly allow an Andromeda sequel to go ahead "unhindered?" (facepalm).
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 27, 2019 23:48:23 GMT
People have lower expectations about who Ryder might become than they do about their concept of who Shepard was for them. In Avengers Endgame, Cap didn't all of a sudden become female. The personalities of each Avenger was set by Marvel.... not an individual player. That is wholly irrelevant. That's like arguing that Garrus or Wrex are different characters, when, in fact, you can only influence a few dialogues of theirs in the entire trilogy, at best and even so it's either "you got that line or it is omitted". It is hardly player defined. Let's start with a Bioware's fave then - a Synthesis ending and a Liara romance... will it please you? That is exactly why I said Not if you conclude it nicely. So yes, you can even start with that. If people are so willing to differentiate personal tastes, why can't the be accepting about Ryder growing up to become more Shepard-like? I don't see a problem with that, I don't think anyone sees a problem with that, but a lot of people disliked Ryder as he/she was portrayed in Andromeda. And that's not just me saying that, critics said that as well. Why can't they accept that Andromeda works for some people and allow Bioware to go on from there? Which is also why I said Andromeda was designed to become the MW, from the ground up and I hold no doubt that for the future of ME and Bioware it should continue. So again, you find me in agreement. I think there's more evidence here to suggest they aren't as differential about personal tastes than you're now suggesting. Your whole argument is based on others giving in when you just simply won't - continue flogging, etc. To the contrary, I think I've proven the opposite and not only that, you and I seem to be in agreement in a lot of things. So I fail to see the problem. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 0:01:17 GMT
People have lower expectations about who Ryder might become than they do about their concept of who Shepard was for them. In Avengers Endgame, Cap didn't all of a sudden become female. The personalities of each Avenger was set by Marvel.... not an individual player. That is wholly irrelevant. That's like arguing that Garrus or Wrex are different characters, when, in fact, you can only influence a few dialogues of theirs in the entire trilogy, at best and even so it's either "you got that line or it is omitted". It is hardly player defined. Let's start with a Bioware's fave then - a Synthesis ending and a Liara romance... will it please you? That is exactly why I said Not if you conclude it nicely. So yes, you can even start with that. If people are so willing to differentiate personal tastes, why can't the be accepting about Ryder growing up to become more Shepard-like? I don't see a problem with that, I don't think anyone sees a problem with that, but a lot of people disliked Ryder as he/she was portrayed in Andromeda. And that's not just me saying that, critics said that as well. Why can't they accept that Andromeda works for some people and allow Bioware to go on from there? Which is also why I said Andromeda was designed to become the MW, from the ground up and I hold no doubt that for the future of ME and Bioware it should continue. So again, you find me in agreement. I think there's more evidence here to suggest they aren't as differential about personal tastes than you're now suggesting. Your whole argument is based on others giving in when you just simply won't - continue flogging, etc. To the contrary, I think I've proven the opposite and not only that, you and I seem to be in agreement in a lot of things. So I fail to see the problem. So, an Andromeda sequel should be just fine with you... and it is the more expedient option for Bioware. If anything, people are less personally invested in Ryder than Shepard, so Bioware can change their personalities to be anything without an expectation of any resistance from any quarter. The players can participate in "redesigning Ryder as Shepard-like if they so wish (provided Bioware returns to the P/R style of dialogue that permeated the OT). The story can twist and turn in a hundred different ways to become epic and exploration of an imagined Andromeda galaxy can be designed to be essentially the same as exploration of a imagined Milky Way. In short, Bioware has far more flexibility to get more right with an Andromeda sequel than with an OT one.
Synthesis ending... Shepard is vaporized and his essence added to the Crucible. Cured green-eyed Krogan are now running the galaxy but everyone is universally happy because... utopia... Is it still pleasing you?
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 28, 2019 0:11:43 GMT
So, an Andromeda sequel should be just fine with you As I've stated many times before, yes, by all means do. But I really, really, really do believe that people won't be immediately on board with an Andromeda 2 and more Ryder. You need to do something else, in order to - reinvigorate the franchise - deal with divide in the Bioware fanbase - silence clickbaiters And all I can say is that I can think of no scenario where an Andromeda 2 right now does away with all, if any, of these. In another thread, I had talked about how I was and still am a big fan of the X-Men. I don't believe you need anyone to tell you what they thought of X3: Last Stand. I don't even need to tell you how choked up I was, at the end of Days of Future Past or how teary eyed I was with the ending of Logan. I'm saying it can be done and Bioware can heal this divide, if they want to, if they try. It is not impossible. |
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