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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tatann on Jun 10, 2019 8:41:15 GMT
"Role-playing without NPCs" - pardon me but I dont think that works.
It kinda depends, I think, on what you're willing to accept for NPCs. As I understand it, FO76 does have synthetics that might qualify as NPCs. Also, I've seen some anecdotes about players encountering other players with whom they could role-play. It seems to me that you could meet up with a group of friends somewhere on the map and use that online 3D world in lieu of a tabletop RPG. In any case, I get the impression that Bethesda expected the presence of other players would fill the role(s) that NPCs typically fulfill in their other games. Didn't they announce at E3 they were adding NPCs ? I mean they obviously sold an incomplete and bugged product like you know who, but at least they listened to their community/critics Talking about E3, one thing I'm grateful for Bioware, is that right now I'd be preordering CP77, but since my 2nd (and last) preorder was MEA (this 1st one being ME3), I'll be waiting for reviews, like a reasonable consumer
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Post by Polka Dot on Jun 11, 2019 21:38:32 GMT
It kinda depends, I think, on what you're willing to accept for NPCs. As I understand it, FO76 does have synthetics that might qualify as NPCs. Also, I've seen some anecdotes about players encountering other players with whom they could role-play. It seems to me that you could meet up with a group of friends somewhere on the map and use that online 3D world in lieu of a tabletop RPG. In any case, I get the impression that Bethesda expected the presence of other players would fill the role(s) that NPCs typically fulfill in their other games. Didn't they announce at E3 they were adding NPCs ? I mean they obviously sold an incomplete and bugged product like you know who, but at least they listened to their community/critics I honestly don't know, as I've not paid much attention to anything that's been said of late. MEA was my only pre-order thus far, and I waited until the day before release to place the order. I'd decided I wanted to play it right away, so I figured I may as well get it downloaded. I'd been watching comments from early accessors, and was willing to give it a chance. Despite some issues and flaws, I don't regret the purchase, and feel like I got my moneys' worth. But generally speaking, I'm not in favor of pre-ordering anything. The only time I'd do it is if I'm planning to get something on release day, anyway.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by tatann on Jun 11, 2019 22:18:45 GMT
Didn't they announce at E3 they were adding NPCs ? I mean they obviously sold an incomplete and bugged product like you know who, but at least they listened to their community/critics I honestly don't know, as I've not paid much attention to anything that's been said of late. MEA was my only pre-order thus far, and I waited until the day before release to place the order. I'd decided I wanted to play it right away, so I figured I may as well get it downloaded. I'd been watching comments from early accessors, and was willing to give it a chance. Despite some issues and flaws, I don't regret the purchase, and feel like I got my moneys' worth. But generally speaking, I'm not in favor of pre-ordering anything. The only time I'd do it is if I'm planning to get something on release day, anyway. Well I preordered ME3 after having played the demo for a week and felt in love with the multiplayer (and the singleplayer demo was fine too obviously). That was my first "kinda preorder" and I loved ME3, that's why I went blindly for MEA preorder (the pet pyjak might have helped too...), but that's clearly my last mistake, and no Keanu Reeves can change that ^^ (Although I'll be buying in the few minutes following ACG's review for CP77... if the game is ok)
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Polka Dot
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 679 Likes: 1,207
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Post by Polka Dot on Jun 11, 2019 22:30:38 GMT
I honestly don't know, as I've not paid much attention to anything that's been said of late. MEA was my only pre-order thus far, and I waited until the day before release to place the order. I'd decided I wanted to play it right away, so I figured I may as well get it downloaded. I'd been watching comments from early accessors, and was willing to give it a chance. Despite some issues and flaws, I don't regret the purchase, and feel like I got my moneys' worth. But generally speaking, I'm not in favor of pre-ordering anything. The only time I'd do it is if I'm planning to get something on release day, anyway. Well I preordered ME3 after having played the demo for a week and felt in love with the multiplayer (and the singleplayer demo was fine too obviously). That was my first "kinda preorder" and I loved ME3, that's why I went blindly for MEA preorder (the pet pyjak might have helped too...), but that's clearly my last mistake, and no Keanu Reeves can change that ^^ (Although I'll be buying in the few minutes following ACG's review for CP77... if the game is ok) How very sane of you. So long as you're sure ACG's tastes are so congruous with your own, that is. People look for different things in games, and I prefer to look at a wider variety of reviews and reactions before I pull the trigger.
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tatann
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 765 Likes: 1,038
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Post by tatann on Jun 12, 2019 5:24:09 GMT
Well I preordered ME3 after having played the demo for a week and felt in love with the multiplayer (and the singleplayer demo was fine too obviously). That was my first "kinda preorder" and I loved ME3, that's why I went blindly for MEA preorder (the pet pyjak might have helped too...), but that's clearly my last mistake, and no Keanu Reeves can change that ^^ (Although I'll be buying in the few minutes following ACG's review for CP77... if the game is ok) How very sane of you. So long as you're sure ACG's tastes are so congruous with your own, that is. People look for different things in games, and I prefer to look at a wider variety of reviews and reactions before I pull the trigger. Well I'm already pretty convinced the game will be good (considered by the time of release we will have more gameplay reveal), I just need 1 somehow trusty reviewer to confirm it's not a bugfest
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Post by Iakus on Jun 12, 2019 14:15:57 GMT
It kinda depends, I think, on what you're willing to accept for NPCs. As I understand it, FO76 does have synthetics that might qualify as NPCs. Also, I've seen some anecdotes about players encountering other players with whom they could role-play. It seems to me that you could meet up with a group of friends somewhere on the map and use that online 3D world in lieu of a tabletop RPG. In any case, I get the impression that Bethesda expected the presence of other players would fill the role(s) that NPCs typically fulfill in their other games. Didn't they announce at E3 they were adding NPCs ? I mean they obviously sold an incomplete and bugged product like you know who, but at least they listened to their community/critics Yes: en.brinkwire.com/technology/e3-2019-human-npcs-finally-coming-to-fallout-76-in-new-wastelanders-dlc-expansion/E3 2019: Human NPCs Finally Coming To Fallout 76 In New Wastelanders DLC Expansion
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2019 16:33:24 GMT
But how can they be sure, given animations in Bethesda games, that they aren't robots, too?
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tatann
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 765 Likes: 1,038
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Post by tatann on Jun 12, 2019 17:18:38 GMT
But how can they be sure, given animations in Bethesda games, that they aren't robots, too? You're saying that only because they can't replicate Shepard's dance moves ;-)
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 12, 2019 18:00:24 GMT
But how can they be sure, given animations in Bethesda games, that they aren't robots, too? You're saying that only because they can't replicate Shepard's dance moves ;-) Pretty sure Casey Hudson mocaped those himself.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 12, 2019 21:12:48 GMT
"Role-playing without NPCs" - pardon me but I dont think that works. Sorry for the late reply... Well, depends on your understanding. The way Todd Howard seems to have imagined it is that people roleplay their characters in different ways. Some become raiders, others just scavengers or traders. Of course in reality few people do that. They just loot and grind. But in theory anyway people could stick to a role that an NPC would have filled. Problem was so far that even if people were up for that stuff, there was little opportunity in the game. Or rather, no tools. If I was in charge of the game I'd add all kinds of tools for players to actually roleplay. Factions for one let people fight each other in an immersive way. I would add the possibility to play creatures too for fun. Hunt people as ghouls or deathclaws, kill them. Add robots and ghouls as playable "races". Add caravan Brahmin for a travelling merchant scenario. Your buddies could play the caravan guards. More options for building real stores. Option to build a player operated hotel. Or a bar. Themed settlement items so that people can recreate stuff from the singleplayer games. Maybe have jobs in character creation. Like doctor who can actually patch up people for a fee. I would be all over having different savefiles of different roles/jobs I can switch on any given day based on my mood. I LOVED the idea of how the game was pitched but knew it was NEVER going to be that game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 765 Likes: 1,038
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Post by tatann on Jun 12, 2019 21:14:43 GMT
You're saying that only because they can't replicate Shepard's dance moves ;-) Pretty sure Casey Hudson mocaped those himself. I always thought it was Van Damme in Kickboxer
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 12, 2019 21:36:50 GMT
"Role-playing without NPCs" - pardon me but I dont think that works. Sorry for the late reply... Well, depends on your understanding. The way Todd Howard seems to have imagined it is that people roleplay their characters in different ways. Some become raiders, others just scavengers or traders. Of course in reality few people do that. They just loot and grind. But in theory anyway people could stick to a role that an NPC would have filled. Problem was so far that even if people were up for that stuff, there was little opportunity in the game. Or rather, no tools. If I was in charge of the game I'd add all kinds of tools for players to actually roleplay. Factions for one let people fight each other in an immersive way. I would add the possibility to play creatures too for fun. Hunt people as ghouls or deathclaws, kill them. Add robots and ghouls as playable "races". Add caravan Brahmin for a travelling merchant scenario. Your buddies could play the caravan guards. More options for building real stores. Option to build a player operated hotel. Or a bar. Themed settlement items so that people can recreate stuff from the singleplayer games. Maybe have jobs in character creation. Like doctor who can actually patch up people for a fee. I would be all over having different savefiles of different roles/jobs I can switch on any given day based on my mood. I LOVED the idea of how the game was pitched but knew it was NEVER going to be that game. There is no gamemaster. You can put up the nicest sandbox and invite ppl. But if noone supervises, ppl gonna piss and shit in it. They gonna "roleplay" being dicks - though in reality they are just really dicks. That's how it's gonna go down without somone observing the rules.
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Post by clips7 on Jun 13, 2019 2:38:18 GMT
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Post by Kappa Neko on Jun 13, 2019 7:32:37 GMT
There is no gamemaster. You can put up the nicest sandbox and invite ppl. But if noone supervises, ppl gonna piss and shit in it. They gonna "roleplay" being dicks - though in reality they are just really dicks. That's how it's gonna go down without somone observing the rules. I know. That's why I said it doesn't work the way Bethesda imagines it. In theory however it sounds nice enough. Makes me wonder if they were actually that naive or if it really was designed as a quick cash grab from start to finish. I can't tell.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,830 Likes: 5,270
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 13, 2019 14:14:01 GMT
"Role-playing without NPCs" - pardon me but I dont think that works. Sorry for the late reply... Well, depends on your understanding. The way Todd Howard seems to have imagined it is that people roleplay their characters in different ways. Some become raiders, others just scavengers or traders. Of course in reality few people do that. They just loot and grind. But in theory anyway people could stick to a role that an NPC would have filled. Problem was so far that even if people were up for that stuff, there was little opportunity in the game. Or rather, no tools. If I was in charge of the game I'd add all kinds of tools for players to actually roleplay. Factions for one let people fight each other in an immersive way. I would add the possibility to play creatures too for fun. Hunt people as ghouls or deathclaws, kill them. Add robots and ghouls as playable "races". Add caravan Brahmin for a travelling merchant scenario. Your buddies could play the caravan guards. More options for building real stores. Option to build a player operated hotel. Or a bar. Themed settlement items so that people can recreate stuff from the singleplayer games. Maybe have jobs in character creation. Like doctor who can actually patch up people for a fee. I would be all over having different savefiles of different roles/jobs I can switch on any given day based on my mood. I LOVED the idea of how the game was pitched but knew it was NEVER going to be that game. You really have no clue about the amount of roleplaying that goes on in FO76.
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Post by river82 on Jun 13, 2019 15:11:12 GMT
Sorry for the late reply... Well, depends on your understanding. The way Todd Howard seems to have imagined it is that people roleplay their characters in different ways. Some become raiders, others just scavengers or traders. Of course in reality few people do that. They just loot and grind. But in theory anyway people could stick to a role that an NPC would have filled. Problem was so far that even if people were up for that stuff, there was little opportunity in the game. Or rather, no tools. If I was in charge of the game I'd add all kinds of tools for players to actually roleplay. Factions for one let people fight each other in an immersive way. I would add the possibility to play creatures too for fun. Hunt people as ghouls or deathclaws, kill them. Add robots and ghouls as playable "races". Add caravan Brahmin for a travelling merchant scenario. Your buddies could play the caravan guards. More options for building real stores. Option to build a player operated hotel. Or a bar. Themed settlement items so that people can recreate stuff from the singleplayer games. Maybe have jobs in character creation. Like doctor who can actually patch up people for a fee. I would be all over having different savefiles of different roles/jobs I can switch on any given day based on my mood. I LOVED the idea of how the game was pitched but knew it was NEVER going to be that game. You really have no clue about the amount of roleplaying that goes on in FO76. It's a sandboxy type game, and those sorts of games always sound really good on paper but in practice it sort of takes a lot of effort from the playerbase to generate fun. And some of those people who were enraptured by the be anything do anything possibilities kinda get disillusioned by the work involved xD Just my 2c (do I really need to start adding this disclaimer everywhere...)
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Quickpaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Jun 14, 2019 1:03:21 GMT
A sandbox is only as good as the tools in it. The only thing you can do with a tooless one (like FO76, or Sea of Thieves/No Man's Sky on launch) is kick sand in each others' faces. Which is only fun for the first few minutes.
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Post by river82 on Jun 14, 2019 1:16:20 GMT
A sandbox is only as good as the tools in it. The only thing you can do with a tooless one (like FO76, or Sea of Thieves/No Man's Sky on launch) is kick sand in each others' faces. Which is only fun for the first few minutes.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,830 Likes: 5,270
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 15, 2019 10:28:20 GMT
A sandbox is only as good as the tools in it. The only thing you can do with a tooless one (like FO76, or Sea of Thieves/No Man's Sky on launch) is kick sand in each others' faces. Which is only fun for the first few minutes. That is merely scratching the surface. It is true though that going all in faction RP:ing takes you putting in time and showing up to meet-ups and all like any other raiding guild.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jun 26, 2019 21:44:57 GMT
They should have just stuck with Unreal.... I do wonder if EA would have given up the ghost (Frostbite) had BioWare had not signed on to use it. 5% isn't chunk change when you consider how game profits are divided up, but I'd argue the drop in quality in EA's games over the last few years (save for a few notable titles) has likely cost them more than that 5% would have ever amounted to. I have a feeling that it would've meant budget cuts if EA had to license it.
I heard a story from an ex-BioWare dev who was laid off along 200 other BioWare austin employees when SWTOR launched. They had to reach a certain number of subs at launch which they estimated wouldn't be possible given the time to polish the game and whatnot, so they asked for a delay in order to reach the promise. EA said "Fine, but then the number has to increase". So it was a deadlock situation.
That just goes to show you how EA is completely cynical when it comes to how they provide resources to the studios.
The trickster and trojan horse of "EA killed BioWare" is exactly that; EA never interfered with BioWare's process, but they do tinker with them on a studio-basis and sales expectations and it's those things that more and more had a ripple effect on the whole company and why they sometimes make disillusioned decisions these days. Everything has to be suitable to EA or BioWare knows something they would own gets cut, and inadvertently that is how their creative process have become worse, and in no small part due to troves of staff departures.
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Post by Superhik on Jun 27, 2019 1:13:33 GMT
Sorry for the late reply... Well, depends on your understanding. The way Todd Howard seems to have imagined it is that people roleplay their characters in different ways. Some become raiders, others just scavengers or traders. Of course in reality few people do that. They just loot and grind. But in theory anyway people could stick to a role that an NPC would have filled. Problem was so far that even if people were up for that stuff, there was little opportunity in the game. Or rather, no tools. If I was in charge of the game I'd add all kinds of tools for players to actually roleplay. Factions for one let people fight each other in an immersive way. I would add the possibility to play creatures too for fun. Hunt people as ghouls or deathclaws, kill them. Add robots and ghouls as playable "races". Add caravan Brahmin for a travelling merchant scenario. Your buddies could play the caravan guards. More options for building real stores. Option to build a player operated hotel. Or a bar. Themed settlement items so that people can recreate stuff from the singleplayer games. Maybe have jobs in character creation. Like doctor who can actually patch up people for a fee. I would be all over having different savefiles of different roles/jobs I can switch on any given day based on my mood. I LOVED the idea of how the game was pitched but knew it was NEVER going to be that game. You really have no clue about the amount of roleplaying that goes on in FO76. You really have no clue what roleplaying actually is. If that is "roleplaying" then Conan Exiles, Ark, Dead State or any game with freeroam, char customization/creator and some building/crafting mechanic is "rpg". Roleplaying is about making choices and reactivity to it: what your character's background is, your character build and how it affects story, npc interaction and quests, narrative choices, etc.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,830 Likes: 5,270
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,830
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 28, 2019 2:51:29 GMT
You really have no clue about the amount of roleplaying that goes on in FO76. You really have no clue what roleplaying actually is. If that is "roleplaying" then Conan Exiles, Ark, Dead State or any game with freeroam, char customization/creator and some building/crafting mechanic is "rpg". Roleplaying is about making choices and reactivity to it: what your character's background is, your character build and how it affects story, npc interaction and quests, narrative choices, etc.
Blaha, blaha. Spoken like true clueless.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 28, 2019 19:17:41 GMT
You really have no clue what roleplaying actually is. If that is "roleplaying" then Conan Exiles, Ark, Dead State or any game with freeroam, char customization/creator and some building/crafting mechanic is "rpg". Roleplaying is about making choices and reactivity to it: what your character's background is, your character build and how it affects story, npc interaction and quests, narrative choices, etc.
Blaha, blaha. Spoken like true clueless. Considering that the term RPG has been broadened of the years, RPGs is more than what’s discussed.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
Posts: 2,830 Likes: 5,270
inherit
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
2,830
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correctamundo
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correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 28, 2019 21:37:12 GMT
Blaha, blaha. Spoken like true clueless. Considering that the term RPG has been broadened of the years, RPGs is more than what’s discussed. It has alwyas been rather broad, especially since it's roots is Chainmail which was basically i fighting game. Anyway the "no true scotsman" fallacy is as always blaha, blaha. Some like their rpgs one way, others like theirs in another way. I'm off roleplaying in Tamriel.
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Hier0phant
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hier0phant
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Post by Hier0phant on Jun 30, 2019 1:55:50 GMT
You really have no clue about the amount of roleplaying that goes on in FO76. You really have no clue what roleplaying actually is. If that is "roleplaying" then Conan Exiles, Ark, Dead State or any game with freeroam, char customization/creator and some building/crafting mechanic is "rpg". Roleplaying is about making choices and reactivity to it: what your character's background is, your character build and how it affects story, npc interaction and quests, narrative choices, etc.
We live in a time when God of War is considered an RPG, and sports games like FIFA or that Kim Kardashian phone game offers more customisation options than a AAA release from BioWare or Bethesda. Ever since the table top golden age the term has been applied to so many games in different genres that it's been rendered near meaningless. Like the quality of Anthem and Fallout76 upon release, the bar has been set low.
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