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Post by Catilina on Aug 22, 2016 11:30:14 GMT
@ Catilina and dragontartare - I do not dwell on Dorian here - since he must have his own topic. [...] If I remember correctly, NOT I was, who mentioned Dorian, NOR dragontartare ... just for the sake of accuracy. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 22, 2016 11:39:54 GMT
@ Catilina and dragontartare - I do not dwell on Dorian here - since he must have his own topic. [...] If I remember correctly, NOT I was, who mentioned Dorian, NOR dragontartare ... just for the sake of accuracy. I have explained why you shouldn't be surprised that I wrote shortly about entire Dorian issue "Tevinter is anti-homo", and shouldn't be surprising here. I tried as hard to avoid speaking about Dorian here since it is not his thread. Mine understanding to Dorian is more than this, but to put shortly all what Dorian cared mainly was this one issue. That's why I had to later explained mine stand on Dorian since you and dragontartare made it clear for me that you exacly think that all I could see from Dorian is him being homo, and that's not accurate. So I had to go here explaining how I see Dorian and what is the issue. Anyway in general in DA series I see both tranquility and blood magic as tools. You may say "less evil" since I do see situation where those two have the right to be used. I am not anti-mage, I am more about trying to spare misery overall. Whether it's becoming abomination issue, homosexual struggle, sacrifaces like slaves by Hadriana, or this catastrophe which Solas is about to make. Eloise Hawke was all about sparing misery for all people - for slaves, apostates, Circle mages, templars, poor people, refugees. The matter with Feynriel was difficult, just like it was with Qunari. There is no easy answer for some matters. She was as justified as Christian thinking that MAYBE Tevinter will help Feynriel because if it don't then Christian will be held responsible for any massacre which will occur with Feynriel. Neither vision of seeing Feynriel with cutted hands (remember Leliana Song ? That was supposed fate for Sketch from hands of people too afraid of magic) or sewed eyes and mouth like any Sarebaas have. I generally tends to understand from all angles matters - it's just typical questions from RPG matter. More like Fallout question about what you think will be better for Junktown. Some people could easily say Gizmo is evil, but there is always reason of WHY Gizmo would be worth consider as option. This is the same thing with Feynriel. Or perhaps let me look at Origins - you had option to sacriface captured elves so you may boost yourself a little. That was the offer from mage of Tevinter back there. Some people would say it was unthinkable and no way evil to even consider this, but I know there were people who chosen this thinking that stronger Warden will be likely to save Ferelden and thanks to this more people will be spared from Blight. People are different and so are their views, that's why our argue about Feynriel or how I see Tevinter or Dorian priorities is as useless as any argue on line Anders-Fenris-Merrill. We both have the points of justify our decisions in this game, and we may never find an neutral ground to discussion in this matter. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 22, 2016 12:48:15 GMT
If I remember correctly, NOT I was, who mentioned Dorian, NOR dragontartare ... just for the sake of accuracy. I have explained why you shouldn't be surprised that I wrote shortly about entire Dorian issue "Tevinter is anti-homo", and shouldn't be surprising here. I tried as hard to avoid speaking about Dorian here since it is not his thread. Mine understanding to Dorian is more than this, but to put shortly all what Dorian cared mainly was this one issue. That's why I had to later explained mine stand on Dorian since you and dragontartare made it clear for me that you exacly think that all I could see from Dorian is him being homo, and that's not accurate. So I had to go here explaining how I see Dorian and what is the issue. Also not we was, who wrote Dorian backstory. But: regardless Dorian's sexuality, dragontartare was right. Dorian raised in this slave-holder society, he had completely different viewpoint, than you or me. THIS is the fact. Do not forget: Orana also accepted her position (she could not imagine anything), and until he had killed the fog-warriors, Fenris also not rebelled. Varania said: "Freedom was not boon", and she were though that seriously. The slavery issue not as simple from the viewpoints of the Tevinters. Not too many people capable of true compassion with another group, as I see. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 22, 2016 13:12:40 GMT
I have explained why you shouldn't be surprised that I wrote shortly about entire Dorian issue "Tevinter is anti-homo", and shouldn't be surprising here. I tried as hard to avoid speaking about Dorian here since it is not his thread. Mine understanding to Dorian is more than this, but to put shortly all what Dorian cared mainly was this one issue. That's why I had to later explained mine stand on Dorian since you and dragontartare made it clear for me that you exacly think that all I could see from Dorian is him being homo, and that's not accurate. So I had to go here explaining how I see Dorian and what is the issue. Also not we was, who wrote Dorian backstory. But: regardless Dorian's sexuality, dragontartare was right. Dorian raised in this slave-holder society, he had completely different viewpoint, than you or me. THIS is the fact. Do not forget: Orana also accepted her position (she could not imagine anything), and until he had killed the fog-warriors, Fenris also not rebelled. Varania said: "Freedom was not boon", and she were though that seriously. The slavery issue not as simple from the viewpoints of the Tevinters. Not too many people capable of true compassion with another group, as I see. I am aware of this. And yet since it was Dorian who was free to think and then he came to places where slavery did not exist he did not change too badly view. His view on alienage was just so off. Yes sure alienege is like slums, but in Tevinter according to Varania there are also slums with very big poverty. It equals. Alienage also may have reason to change as he may see where Inquisitor will put Briala in charge of Orlais or elect Leliana to change general view on elves. So overall his stand on how bad things are on South I see as very odd in favor to Tevinter. Yes you have good owners of slaves and then you have monsters like Denarius. Varania was bitter as Carver. Whatever she said must be rethought. Yes freedom was a boon, yet she should have been teached how to use it. She wasn't and Leto was already taken and turned into person who we know as Fenris - with almost no memory of being her brother Leto. She was not ready, she failed, Tevinter is build in way to use only slaves and she thought that being a slave was better. Now given how she was a mage and mages are powerfull in Tevinter she did NOT want to turn herself into slave. Dorian mentioned that poor folk MAY sell themselves as slaves at any point. That was what Varania obviously did NOT want. She wanted to be free, but she didn't want to be poor. So she found herself a way to get better position in society. She must have sell her brother to slaver. Now I may understand if she thought it would be better for once that she would be studeent to Denarius, and that she will either way watch over Fenris in his slavery so none abuse like Hadriana did would happen. But her overall show in DA II was just so ... cruel. So unspeakable bad. I just can't find a way to truly understand her besides her egoism. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 22, 2016 13:46:23 GMT
Also not we was, who wrote Dorian backstory. But: regardless Dorian's sexuality, dragontartare was right. Dorian raised in this slave-holder society, he had completely different viewpoint, than you or me. THIS is the fact. Do not forget: Orana also accepted her position (she could not imagine anything), and until he had killed the fog-warriors, Fenris also not rebelled. Varania said: "Freedom was not boon", and she were though that seriously. The slavery issue not as simple from the viewpoints of the Tevinters. Not too many people capable of true compassion with another group, as I see. I am aware of this. And yet since it was Dorian who was free to think and then he came to places where slavery did not exist he did not change too badly view. His view on alienage was just so off. Yes sure alienege is like slums, but in Tevinter according to Varania there are also slums with very big poverty. It equals. Alienage also may have reason to change as he may see where Inquisitor will put Briala in charge of Orlais or elect Leliana to change general view on elves. So overall his stand on how bad things are on South I see as very odd in favor to Tevinter. Yes you have good owners of slaves and then you have monsters like Denarius. Varania was bitter as Carver. Whatever she said must be rethought. Yes freedom was a boon, yet she should have been teached how to use it. She wasn't and Leto was already taken and turned into person who we know as Fenris - with almost no memory of being her brother Leto. She was not ready, she failed, Tevinter is build in way to use only slaves and she thought that being a slave was better. Now given how she was a mage and mages are powerfull in Tevinter she did NOT want to turn herself into slave. Dorian mentioned that poor folk MAY sell themselves as slaves at any point. That was what Varania obviously did NOT want. She wanted to be free, but she didn't want to be poor. So she found herself a way to get better position in society. She must have sell her brother to slaver. Now I may understand if she thought it would be better for once that she would be studeent to Denarius, and that she will either way watch over Fenris in his slavery so none abuse like Hadriana did would happen. But her overall show in DA II was just so ... cruel. So unspeakable bad. I just can't find a way to truly understand her besides her egoism. Yes, Varania was failed. Never said different things. But Varania's quote is interesting: it makes clear the reality, as what Fenris said about the fog-warriors' killing. Fenris had done a terrible thing… and he know that. You don't need to understand Hadriana or Danarius. Yes, Tevinter are cruel place, and corrupt. And the DA2 was a dark game. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 22, 2016 15:56:35 GMT
At least I see some hope for Tevinter beyond it's own corruption.
I may hope that Fenris will come back to Dragon Age 4 if BioWare is really doing that game (and they are far too silent for this ... I don't like where this is heading). Or that Dorian will succeed with his mages to change Magisterium ruling.
I may understand Varania if I would be there and see things. But I am not sure what actually was the deal. There was no point where there was "Varania and my mother will not be a slave again". There was never anything like it - none deal from Denarius about this. it was just him who freed them from his ownership - none other magister.
Fenris and Fog Warriors were something what was .. problematic to say the least. It was literally the damaged mentality of a slave. Like Orana who was keep on telling herself that Hadriana had a reason to kill her father.
I think entire Dragon Age is dark - from same beggining like intro for City Elf where you had rape situation.
Just like Mass Effect was in it's core.
Oh that thing about shooting to own kids who were turned into your enemies ... horrible vision.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 22, 2016 16:20:48 GMT
At least I see some hope for Tevinter beyond it's own corruption. I may hope that Fenris will come back to Dragon Age 4 if BioWare is really doing that game (and they are far too silent for this ... I don't like where this is heading). Or that Dorian will succeed with his mages to change Magisterium ruling. I may understand Varania if I would be there and see things. But I am not sure what actually was the deal. There was no point where there was "Varania and my mother will not be a slave again". There was never anything like it - none deal from Denarius about this. it was just him who freed them from his ownership - none other magister. Fenris and Fog Warriors were something what was .. problematic to say the least. It was literally the damaged mentality of a slave. Like Orana who was keep on telling herself that Hadriana had a reason to kill her father. I think entire Dragon Age is dark - from same beggining like intro for City Elf where you had rape situation. Just like Mass Effect was in it's core. Oh that thing about shooting to own kids who were turned into your enemies ... horrible vision. I don't think, that Fenris will come back, because he may dead (okay, you can say: as Leliana... perhaps). And I afraid, he's cameo (as I said, I think, he couldn't get a bigger role) will be dissapointing, as was Zevran's in the DA2. Yes, a quite difficult to understand Varania, but I never let Fenris to kill her friendship or rivalry do not matter. |
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 22, 2016 22:46:10 GMT
noname55rr Since this discussion seems to be winding down, I just want to correct one thing: Dorian's primary focus for Tevinter is NOT correcting homophobia. His primary focus is the fight against blood magic. As Dorian tells the Inquisitor: he was raised to believe that blood magic is "the resort of the weak mind." This goes far beyond homophobia and long predates what Dorian's father tried to do to him. Back on the topic of Fenris, I found two more videos. I must have the sense of humor of a 12 year old, because I think they are hilarious. They aren't exclusively about Fenris, but they do feature some Hawke/Fenris moments: Warning for language: More warning for language:
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Post by Catilina on Aug 22, 2016 23:46:57 GMT
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 23, 2016 0:25:36 GMT
At least I see some hope for Tevinter beyond it's own corruption. I may hope that Fenris will come back to Dragon Age 4 if BioWare is really doing that game (and they are far too silent for this ... I don't like where this is heading). Or that Dorian will succeed with his mages to change Magisterium ruling. I may understand Varania if I would be there and see things. But I am not sure what actually was the deal. There was no point where there was "Varania and my mother will not be a slave again". There was never anything like it - none deal from Denarius about this. it was just him who freed them from his ownership - none other magister. Fenris and Fog Warriors were something what was .. problematic to say the least. It was literally the damaged mentality of a slave. Like Orana who was keep on telling herself that Hadriana had a reason to kill her father. I think entire Dragon Age is dark - from same beggining like intro for City Elf where you had rape situation. Just like Mass Effect was in it's core. Oh that thing about shooting to own kids who were turned into your enemies ... horrible vision. I don't think, that Fenris will come back, because he may dead (okay, you can say: as Leliana... perhaps). And I afraid, he's cameo (as I said, I think, he couldn't get a bigger role) will be dissapointing, as was Zevran's in the DA2. Yes, a quite difficult to understand Varania, but I never let Fenris to kill her friendship or rivalry do not matter. Maybe to you it was dissapointing. It was hillarious to see what Zevran again did. I just love this quest, never miss it. Zevran can just repair any bad quests. I absolutely love his cameo in DA II. Better than any cameo of Allistair or Leliana in MotA. Or this poor Sketch reappearance out of nowhere - now that one was lame. Fenris at the epilogue is told to chase after slavers. So he is still active anti-slavery warrior. It would be far reasonable for him to reappear in Tevinter with torch in his hand ready to set the craddle of evil on fire. To let it burn. It is EXACLY what I expect him to do since DA II. How many times will he chase and kill slavers if there will be wave after wave of those bastards just because the need for slaves in the craddle of evil is urgent so slavers are needed. It's logical that to end this never ending circle one must go to root of it and purge it. About "death" in this franchise. I can behead Oghren in Origins, yet he will be resurrected to Awekening. I can behead Leliana and she is alive again for no reason. So yeah about beheading ... not to mention mine brother did behead Justice yet this guy had the time to be friend with Anders and pass on him. When did that happen if his head just flew across the Mother nest entrance ? dragontartare - For me the main focus of Dorian seem to be the Tevinter pride itself. He was dedicated at the end to force Tevinter national pride itself to cut down. He was dedicated because this pride was leading Tevinter to nowhere. You cannot alone defeat Qunari. Yet Tevinter out of pride does not see it's mistakes. Not see that the alliance are needed, doesn't see any point of building economy not slave-based. It wasn't blood magic or homosexuality he dedicated himself to at the end. It was this what Inquisitor taught him to do - try to change the nation, the people. He saw how Inquisitor was changing Orlais, or helping Ferelden (I hope I will see in next game Allistair and Teagan on exile from Ferelden !!!  ), how they have dealt with politics so they will have to listen to her/him and change. Dorian during his life tended to be ... parias with pride in being one. He doesn't care about being Magister Pavus heir, after coming out it was even more clear to him that he despise politics or standards of Tevinter society. We may come from different angles because for me it was clear that at the end Dorian has dedicated himself and some youth to learn the lesson given by LR previous in gaming. He wanted to change country. "If war doesn't change, men must change and so must their symbols." Blood Magic, slavery, ancient dragons, pride, fighting alone long-lost battle, racism ... everything of this are symbols of modern Tevinter which is proud of Ancient one. They keep on it, protect it. And eventually just like the Ancient one this legacy - this behavior will drag modern Tevinter Imperium to the sad end. In this case you can also go like Arishok about Kirkwall in DA II. It is very similar situation. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 23, 2016 0:43:58 GMT
Perhaps you'r right, I like Fenris, and yes, his emergence in Tevinter would be interesting (DA2 Zevran was... weird), I just don't want a dissapointment. I don't know, for example how the Bioware will could handle Fenris' relationship with Hawke(s)... (I'm also interested in what happened with Feynriel.) |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 23, 2016 0:53:25 GMT
Perhaps you'r right, I like Fenris, and yes, his emergence in Tevinter would be interesting (DA2 Zevran was... weird), I just don't want a dissapointment. I don't know, for example how the Bioware will could handle Fenris' relationship with Hawke(s)... (I'm also interested in what happened with Feynriel.) The only thing which was poor in Zevran was his looks, but I blame EA for giving BioWare ONE YEAR to do this game. And they have changed model of elves in general so of course Zevran will be problematic. I still prefer his look than look of Allistair - who turned by look into some alcoholic. Yes it was ... weird that he had time to be there, especially on Enayra world state - but hey, she didn't had him in Awekening somehow. That was lame too. They could bring back Hawke (especially romanced one) with him along. Remember that in Trespasser it was clear that she/he have stopped hiding and running away. They are free to do whatever they want - they can easily be there to aid Fenris in anti-slavery movement. You already had Hawke in Inquisition. DA 4 already has clear signal that just like Hawke in DA I so will Inquisitor have to reappear in this one. So they will bring back mechanics for making Inquisitor. Now those mechanics can be easily also bring back to remade Hawke since they will have to BE in game already. I am not that interested in Feynriel since I already have on mind Morinth case from ME. I won't be surprised if they will do Morinth 2.0 there with Feynriel. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 23, 2016 1:29:44 GMT
Perhaps you'r right, I like Fenris, and yes, his emergence in Tevinter would be interesting (DA2 Zevran was... weird), I just don't want a dissapointment. I don't know, for example how the Bioware will could handle Fenris' relationship with Hawke(s)... (I'm also interested in what happened with Feynriel.) The only thing which was poor in Zevran was his looks, but I blame EA for giving BioWare ONE YEAR to do this game. And they have changed model of elves in general so of course Zevran will be problematic. I still prefer his look than look of Allistair - who turned by look into some alcoholic. Yes it was ... weird that he had time to be there, especially on Enayra world state - but hey, she didn't had him in Awekening somehow. That was lame too. They could bring back Hawke (especially romanced one) with him along. Remember that in Trespasser it was clear that she/he have stopped hiding and running away. They are free to do whatever they want - they can easily be there to aid Fenris in anti-slavery movement. You already had Hawke in Inquisition. DA 4 already has clear signal that just like Hawke in DA I so will Inquisitor have to reappear in this one. So they will bring back mechanics for making Inquisitor. Now those mechanics can be easily also bring back to remade Hawke since they will have to BE in game already. I am not that interested in Feynriel since I already have on mind Morinth case from ME. I won't be surprised if they will do Morinth 2.0 there with Feynriel. Zevran should not have been offer himself to Hawke so joyfully, when he actually was in love with my warden... if this not disappointing, then what is it? I do not really think, that Hawke would appear again. If we will see Fenris, I'm afraid: he alone would ... Perhaps, he would say a few words about Hawke. |
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 23, 2016 1:30:03 GMT
I have found nothing else that good, unfortunately. Not that I intend to stop looking.  I actually liked Zevran showing up in DA2, even though he looked bizarre. I love that he randomly showed up to help Hawke against Meredith. My game glitched and failed to acknowledge his relationship with my warden, though. My preference would be to see Fenris and a romanced Hawke in DA4, in some capacity, but only if they don't screw up Fenris or force either of them to die. I imagine that anyone who loved Anders in Awakening must have been really pissed off about DA2 and the turn for the crazy that he took. I wouldn't want Fenris to pull an Anders and join in with Solas or something to that effect. I suppose I'm unusual in that I liked Hawke's involvement in DAI (even though I couldn't make mine look the same  ), so of course I'd want to see old characters again in future games  One of you mentioned that it's worrying how Bioware has said nothing about DA4 yet. When did they start talking about DAI? I mean, was it right after DA2 that they started talking about the next game in the series, or did they wait a few years? I only started playing these games less than a year ago. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 23, 2016 1:55:29 GMT
I have found nothing else that good, unfortunately. Not that I intend to stop looking. I actually liked Zevran showing up in DA2, even though he looked bizarre. I love that he randomly showed up to help Hawke against Meredith. My game glitched and failed to acknowledge his relationship with my warden, though. My preference would be to see Fenris and a romanced Hawke in DA4, in some capacity, but only if they don't screw up Fenris or force either of them to die. I imagine that anyone who loved Anders in Awakening must have been really pissed off about DA2 and the turn for the crazy that he took. I wouldn't want Fenris to pull an Anders and join in with Solas or something to that effect. I suppose I'm unusual in that I liked Hawke's involvement in DAI (even though I couldn't make mine look the same ), so of course I'd want to see old characters again in future games One of you mentioned that it's worrying how Bioware has said nothing about DA4 yet. When did they start talking about DAI? I mean, was it right after DA2 that they started talking about the next game in the series, or did they wait a few years? I only started playing these games less than a year ago. Bizarre? I like it! I'm a little bit worried about Fenris' (and Hawke's? I dont think so...) emergence. And when Bioware/EA will start to talk about DA4? Well, I'm also curious about this. I like Anders, but I think, In the DA2 he was more complex (literally...), and and less hopeless. In Awakening he just covered his anger with the sarcasm. So many times it seemed. In fact, his merge with Justice I considered a fantastic idea. |
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 23, 2016 3:52:27 GMT
A sweet and sad picture. I assume Fenris is holding the letter from Varric in DAI... I guess in a worldstate with a dead Hawke? (Nevermind, see below.) Because I think the Fenris we all know and love would pack up immediately to follow Hawke to Weisshaupt.  Here's the artist. There are two more episodes after the one above: Clicky! |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 23, 2016 11:34:01 GMT
The only thing which was poor in Zevran was his looks, but I blame EA for giving BioWare ONE YEAR to do this game. And they have changed model of elves in general so of course Zevran will be problematic. I still prefer his look than look of Allistair - who turned by look into some alcoholic. Yes it was ... weird that he had time to be there, especially on Enayra world state - but hey, she didn't had him in Awekening somehow. That was lame too. They could bring back Hawke (especially romanced one) with him along. Remember that in Trespasser it was clear that she/he have stopped hiding and running away. They are free to do whatever they want - they can easily be there to aid Fenris in anti-slavery movement. You already had Hawke in Inquisition. DA 4 already has clear signal that just like Hawke in DA I so will Inquisitor have to reappear in this one. So they will bring back mechanics for making Inquisitor. Now those mechanics can be easily also bring back to remade Hawke since they will have to BE in game already. I am not that interested in Feynriel since I already have on mind Morinth case from ME. I won't be surprised if they will do Morinth 2.0 there with Feynriel. Zevran should not have been offer himself to Hawke so joyfully, when he actually was in live with my warden... if this not disappointing, then what is it? I do not really think, that Hawke would appear again. If we will see Fenris, I'm afraid: he alone would ... Perhaps, he would say a few words about Hawke. Oh that one. I can explain this, since I know it from myself - Zevran back at DA II is at very basic BUGGED. He is by program NOT SUPPOSE to say this to you, but the game has bug with him. There was a patch who would reread world state correctly so Zevran will be turned into romancing one and not to try anything with Hawke. Dragon Age II was rushed, unfinished and full of bugs. Dissapointing to me was more Allistair back at Inquisition. To say the least. I HATE him in Inquisition. This was dissapointing. Teagan at Trespasser or Inquisition was dissapoininting. I'm not sure if Zevran wouldn't turn you down on the end either way, mine Hawke always little flirt with him but usually they have their own love interests side. Not to mention Bella on Christian (where she was romanced) was eager to go with Zevran little wild. dragontartare - Fenris would be where Hawke (romanced) is. But at Trespasser we already KNOW that Hawke is no longer in Weisshaupt. She/he left it already. Then at Trespasser we have clear signal - the main concern now is Tevinter situation which got destabilized and attacked again by Qunari. Fenris can be in Tevinter trying to save slaves from attacks, he knows qunlat, he knows how to fight or speak with slaves over there. Romanced Hawke just like Fenris probably would join his forces to save slaves. Since both of them at Kirkwall know this problem by heart. I don't think BioWare will be using excuse like "Hawke has a child with LI" they seem to not like that - just look at Kieran. He always looked the same, no matter if warden was dwarf or dalish elf, Allistair or Loghain. Wiesshaupt whatever is doing is put as sub-plot for another installment. Trespasser didn't left any doubt - DA 4 main concern and action is in Tevinter, Anderfels is far away from it. It would be funny to find Anders and Theresa in Tevinter. This is the only place where they could live free after what Anders did. I can picture every scenerio which would put Hawke presence in Tevinter in justice. Merrill is always where Hawke is she has nobody else, Fenris would be fighting to free slaves and Hawke would gladly join him in this, Anders could live free with Hawke there, and Isabella could just sail her ship with Hawke at harbors of Tevinter since pirates do some buissnesses in Tevinter. I think we shouldn't worry about Solas. His entire plot along with the demand that it will be requiring Inquisitor seems like ... you know more hidden plot. It's more like tracking down Solas actions with Inquisitor. Whatever Fenris would do will have to be far more open and far more tolerable than what Solas do. Fenris would set free slaves - elves, humans, perhaps qunari, dwarves ... everybody. Solas main concern are the elves only, sure he may tell some his secret agents to help Fenris to free slaves especially given how ... Solas is regretting what he has to do. Inquisitor made him to feel so, it would be reasonable for Solas to sent agents who would "spare the misery" by setting free slaves. Solas hated the idea of not being free - slavery is damn hot topic in this. I guess DA 4 will have few pillars of storyline. Just like DA 2 had acts and Inquisition at Orlais side had two parts of storyline - "Track down Wardens" and "Assassination of Celene". PS: That's one beautiful change in DA II. This Anders change. I hated him in Awekening, he was pissing me off. That cheap copy of Oghren ... ugh. I hated Oghren, and now I had human one ! The only positive thing about Justice was turning Anders into something more complicated than "Oghren 2.0". dragontartare - It was me who was worrying. About Mass Effect 2 they were start talking after Mass Effect 1 sales hit the top. About ME 3 I was knowing after ME 2 since success followed success and they were eager to announce that trilogy will happen. About Dragon Age II you knew after success of Origins, now given how Dragon Age II is unfair consider "bad one" it's sure taking them much more time to say anything about Inquisition. Now Inquisiton was success - so what about DA 4 ? Ymmmm ..... yyyyyy nothing. They said NOTHING, litterally huge one NOTHING. I know NOTHING about Andromeda to Mass Effect, there is NOTHING about Dragon Age 4 besides sketches of it from Trespasser itself. They say or show NOTHING about this title, just like they say NOTHING about Mass Effect Andromeda. We are left with NOTHING on our lips as gamers. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 23, 2016 13:30:11 GMT
Zevran should not have been offer himself to Hawke so joyfully, when he actually was in live with my warden... if this not disappointing, then what is it? I do not really think, that Hawke would appear again. If we will see Fenris, I'm afraid: he alone would ... Perhaps, he would say a few words about Hawke. Oh that one. I can explain this, since I know it from myself - Zevran back at DA II is at very basic BUGGED. He is by program NOT SUPPOSE to say this to you, but the game has bug with him. There was a patch who would reread world state correctly so Zevran will be turned into romancing one and not to try anything with Hawke. Dragon Age II was rushed, unfinished and full of bugs. Dissapointing to me was more Allistair back at Inquisition. To say the least. I HATE him in Inquisition. This was dissapointing. Teagan at Trespasser or Inquisition was dissapoininting.I'm not sure if Zevran wouldn't turn you down on the end either way, mine Hawke always little flirt with him but usually they have their own love interests side. Not to mention Bella on Christian (where she was romanced) was eager to go with Zevran little wild. dragontartare - Fenris would be where Hawke (romanced) is. But at Trespasser we already KNOW that Hawke is no longer in Weisshaupt. She/he left it already. Then at Trespasser we have clear signal - the main concern now is Tevinter situation which got destabilized and attacked again by Qunari. Fenris can be in Tevinter trying to save slaves from attacks, he knows qunlat, he knows how to fight or speak with slaves over there. Romanced Hawke just like Fenris probably would join his forces to save slaves. Since both of them at Kirkwall know this problem by heart. I don't think BioWare will be using excuse like "Hawke has a child with LI" they seem to not like that - just look at Kieran. He always looked the same, no matter if warden was dwarf or dalish elf, Allistair or Loghain. Wiesshaupt whatever is doing is put as sub-plot for another installment. Trespasser didn't left any doubt - DA 4 main concern and action is in Tevinter, Anderfels is far away from it. It would be funny to find Anders and Theresa in Tevinter. This is the only place where they could live free after what Anders did.I can picture every scenerio which would put Hawke presence in Tevinter in justice. Merrill is always where Hawke is she has nobody else, Fenris would be fighting to free slaves and Hawke would gladly join him in this, Anders could live free with Hawke there, and Isabella could just sail her ship with Hawke at harbors of Tevinter since pirates do some buissnesses in Tevinter. I think we shouldn't worry about Solas. His entire plot along with the demand that it will be requiring Inquisitor seems like ... you know more hidden plot. It's more like tracking down Solas actions with Inquisitor. Whatever Fenris would do will have to be far more open and far more tolerable than what Solas do. Fenris would set free slaves - elves, humans, perhaps qunari, dwarves ... everybody. Solas main concern are the elves only, sure he may tell some his secret agents to help Fenris to free slaves especially given how ... Solas is regretting what he has to do. Inquisitor made him to feel so, it would be reasonable for Solas to sent agents who would "spare the misery" by setting free slaves. Solas hated the idea of not being free - slavery is damn hot topic in this. I guess DA 4 will have few pillars of storyline. Just like DA 2 had acts and Inquisition at Orlais side had two parts of storyline - "Track down Wardens" and "Assassination of Celene". PS: That's one beautiful change in DA II. This Anders change. I hated him in Awekening, he was pissing me off. That cheap copy of Oghren ... ugh. I hated Oghren, and now I had human one ! The only positive thing about Justice was turning Anders into something more complicated than "Oghren 2.0". dragontartare - It was me who was worrying. About Mass Effect 2 they were start talking after Mass Effect 1 sales hit the top. About ME 3 I was knowing after ME 2 since success followed success and they were eager to announce that trilogy will happen. About Dragon Age II you knew after success of Origins, now given how Dragon Age II is unfair consider "bad one" it's sure taking them much more time to say anything about Inquisition. Now Inquisiton was success - so what about DA 4 ? Ymmmm ..... yyyyyy nothing. They said NOTHING, litterally huge one NOTHING. I know NOTHING about Andromeda to Mass Effect, there is NOTHING about Dragon Age 4 besides sketches of it from Trespasser itself. They say or show NOTHING about this title, just like they say NOTHING about Mass Effect Andromeda. We are left with NOTHING on our lips as gamers. 1. So we agree that a character's return can be disappointment. 2. I think: not necessarily. Anders have a main goal: the mage freedom. If your Hawke support him, they working on this together. Also in Inquisition Hawke speak about this: I think, this prove that they don't moved in Tevinter from Kirkwall. In Tevinter the Circles are free. There is not anyone who needs help in this Issue. Back to Fenris: As I said, Fenris' return could be problematic for many. It would be interesting, but the solution pretty hard to be good for everyone. Some Hawkes died in the Fade, some Hawkes sided with the Templars, some with the Mages (supported or not supported Anders), and alive. And as dragontartare said: "My preference would be to see Fenris and a romanced Hawke in DA4, in some capacity, but only if they don't screw up Fenris or force either of them to die.", to many people would be dissapoint, if Fenris (or Hawke) would die. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 23, 2016 20:09:48 GMT
Catilina - Yy yeah I didn't said - or didn't meant it - that there are not "bad returns" I just disagree on Zevran one since I loved that one. About Anders I thought about it ... but let's be honest Anders CANNOT stay in Kirkwall and be officialy there. He killed Elthina and everyone in this temple ! He killed them, he surrounded. Every templar saw it, Merrill, Isabella, Varric - who is now ruling - saw it, Avelina who is GUARD CAPTAIN saw it, Fenris and Hawke ! Everybody ! Carver (Templar) or Bethany (Circle Mage) saw it ! If Anders shows up in Kirkwall or possibly ANYWHERE where is Chantry other than Imperial, he will land in prison for this massacre. He is terrorist. A murderer, and not to mention ... an abomination. During Inquisition he is hiding always near to Hawke - that's what Theresa said. And knowing Theresa she don't like idea of having boyfriend still hiding, all Hawke's should have enough of hiding. Mine Theresa would like to have normal relationship or family. With Anders in Kirkwall or anywhere of South Chantry ... she can't have it. Not to mention to get married you need priestess .... and those are from very same Chantry which temple Anders blow up. Only Tevinter is place which gives ZERO interest to any law from other countries, where him being abomination would just ... fade in crowd of blood mages etc there. Hawke during Inquisition - main game - was 2 years EARLIER (right after DA II like maybe in months) than Trespasser is. Hawke as easy can buy home in Tevinter and live there officialy with Anders ... as marriage ? While she/he can't do it in any other counrty of Thedas since Anders is criminal now. I think Theresa should drag Anders to Avvars so they may tell him about this offering to spirit so Justice may listen to him and just leave Anders body. From fun note: Theresa relationship was mine joke on this World State which had very weird compilation of relationships with love interests who always do something terrible. I had Thosen Mahariel whose girlfriend Morrigan run off stealing the soul of archdemon and later getting Mythal to her head in Inquisition, there was Theresa Hawke whose boyfriend not only was abomination but also blow up temple of Andraste in Kirkwall and was also running away from Grey Wardens - namely Anders and finally I had Verissa Lavellan who now track down her ancient boyfriend Solas because he wants to tear down the Veil. So I may imagine a meeting like for anonymous addicts where all three sit down and talk about relationship disasters which they have and are possibly addicted to. Back to Fenris - yes you have scenarios, like I said I would like to see Hawke WITH Fenris, not apart. As friends, rivals or just lovers. BioWare is supposed to write lines to every situation. So Fenris mourning Hawke who died in Inquisition ? Possible to do, since they did Varric. Fenris being with Hawke ? Well they show possibility of remading Hawke back at Inquisition at one point. Not to mention all background will be read from Keep choices again. Sided with templars or mages does not matter anymore in DA 4. Why would it ? Hawke and Fenris would be helping slaves only - not mages or templars. That one theme ended on Inquisition completly. There is no reason for them to drag this topic. Now you would have only pair of lovers/friends/rivals who just help people in Tevinter to be free. I was dissapointed about death of Hawke (which I never picked since I had Stroud who means for me less than nothing - somehow on Thosen Mahariel Anora tossed down crown and Allistair just took over)possibility in Inquisition. I think now they should just stop down since we should have already possibility of killing or saving Solas. And every death of such major character like Fenris or Solas are is just problematic for BioWare so they should have limit it as possible. I think Fenris shouldn't have even option to be kill, and Hawke ? Again ? Really ?? BioWare give me a break, one was enough.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 23, 2016 21:22:02 GMT
Catilina - Yy yeah I didn't said - or didn't meant it - that there are not "bad returns" I just disagree on Zevran one since I loved that one. About Anders I thought about it ... but let's be honest Anders CANNOT stay in Kirkwall and be officialy there. He killed Elthina and everyone in this temple ! He killed them, he surrounded. Every templar saw it, Merrill, Isabella, Varric - who is now ruling - saw it, Avelina who is GUARD CAPTAIN saw it, Fenris and Hawke ! Everybody ! Carver (Templar) or Bethany (Circle Mage) saw it ! If Anders shows up in Kirkwall or possibly ANYWHERE where is Chantry other than Imperial, he will land in prison for this massacre. He is terrorist. A murderer, and not to mention ... an abomination. Only Tevinter is place which gives ZERO interest to any law from other countries, where him being abomination would just ... fade in crowd of blood mages etc there. Hawke during Inquisition - main game - was 2 years EARLIER (right after DA II like maybe in months) than Trespasser is. Hawke as easy can buy home in Tevinter and live there officialy with Anders ... as marriage ? While she/he can't do it in any other counrty of Thedas since Anders is criminal now. I think Theresa should drag Anders to Avvars so they may tell him about this offering to spirit so Justice may listen to him and just leave Anders body. Back to Fenris - yes you have scenarios, like I said I would like to see Hawke WITH Fenris, not apart. As friends, rivals or just lovers. BioWare is supposed to write lines to every situation. So Fenris mourning Hawke who died in Inquisition ? Possible to do, since they did Varric. Fenris being with Hawke ? Well they show possibility of remading Hawke back at Inquisition at one point. Not to mention all background will be read from Keep choices again. Sided with templars or mages does not matter anymore in DA 4. Why would it ? Hawke and Fenris would be helping slaves only - not mages or templars. That one theme ended on Inquisition completly. There is no reason for them to drag this topic. Now you would have only pair of lovers/friends/rivals who just help people in Tevinter to be free. I was dissapointed about death of Hawke (which I never picked since I had Stroud who means for me less than nothing - somehow on Thosen Mahariel Anora tossed down crown and Allistair just took over)possibility in Inquisition. I think now they should just stop down since we should have already possibility of killing or saving Solas. And every death of such major character like Fenris or Solas are is just problematic for BioWare so they should have limit it as possible. I think Fenris shouldn't have even option to be kill, and Hawke ? Again ? Really ?? BioWare give me a break, one was enough. Anders and Hawke do not stay in Kirkwall, not because Aveline, or Fenris or Carver would betray them*, or just because was so many templars in Kirkwall (Cullen could catch Anders and Hawke easily, remember: Kirkwall was still full of Templars, Cullen just let them go away), because Anders definitely wanted to go away from Kirkwall, but not to Tevinter. "Kirkwall can't change alone, love. Even if we win here, it will take years of open warfare throughout Thedas before mages can be safe, If you want to stay with me, you must join me that fight” ~0:25______ *They never would do that (okay, maybe Aveline, if Hawke was not in friendship/rivalry with her, but I think this thing a bit hard, my Hawkes always was in friendship with her, i'ts easy way, than the neutrality), as I see. Carver is Hawke's brother, and whatever he said and done before, he still a good brother, not his brother's/sister's traitor... and I yet do not mentioned, that in Inquisition Hawke said to the Inquisitor, that when the wardens began to behave strangely, Aveline take Carver away from Free Marches ... they still care about each others. And Fenris? If Fenris was able to fight for mages, for Hawke, then he never will be traitor of Hawke nor Anders. You remember this banter? Fenris knew that Anders dangerous, but he did not get to report him. Sebastian: It's our duty to tell the templars. Fenris: Then why haven't you done it? Sebastian: I guess I was hoping they'd come to it on their own. Fenris: And then you wouldn't have to betray Hawke's friends, right? Sebastian: That's not reason enough to allow a maleficar to walk free. Which of us should do it? Shall we draw lots? Fenris: Uh-uh. You want to turn them in, you work it out with Hawke. Bethany... I dont have Circle Mage Bethany, but I don't think, she would ever become a traitor. But you know her. UPDATE!Maybe if your Hawke sided with te Templars, or Mages, but was in rivalry with Anders, and don't want to help him, they can move to Tevinter, yes. I dont know, I never tryed, because I think, Anders in this way will lose the control over Justice (over himself) and really become abomination, and/or die. UI: I dont think, Bioware able to handle Fenris' and Hawkes's complicate, and diversified relationship, because they failed on this simple question than the Blood Mage Hawke... |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 23, 2016 23:18:42 GMT
Catilina - They didn't cared about Blood Mage Hawke because that's just specialization. About romance they have Keep with questions about it. You don't have any question to DA II specialization. That's why Eloise for no reason had daggers instead of bow (she was archer). But romance is right over there in Keep, also question about state of Fenris in game. And I never had Sebastian so I didn't had this banter. It's not about betrayal. It's about justice. Justice for murdered. Even if Aveline don't want to do harm to Hawke she is Guard Captain. It's her duty to arrest Anders. She even tells him that once it's end the fight she will arrest him. Merrill or Fenris can turn blind eye and don't point on Anders for Hawke. Bethany or Carver can be silent - but Aveline or Varric have duties. One as guard captain and second as viscount. I'm talking about longer time about post-Trespasser times. Anders is wanted by Chantry. Anders is wanted by Kirkwall. He did not hide with what he did. Even if Hawke companions or Cullen will be silent there was bunch of templars ! Some of them may be living, and what ? They will point out at Anders at once and tell "That's him ! He is the apostate who blowed up Kirkwall Temple of Andraste ! He murdered Grand Cleric Elthina !" Whether Hawke likes it or not what Anders did was a crime which will not be forgotten by majority of people. I may hope Anders could with Theresa live free as marriage and family (since Carver or Gamlen are laughable relatives for her) but I don't think that's possible since Anders did this at the end of DA II
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 23, 2016 23:50:40 GMT
Catilina said " to many people would be dissapoint, if Fenris (or Hawke) would die." Yes, I know. That's what I said  I wouldn't want either one to die. I can't see circle mage Bethany ever becoming a traitor. She and Hawke had a decent relationship by the end of the game, I think, and she's too family-oriented to turn on her brother/sister anyway. noname55rr said "Fenris would be where Hawke (romanced) is. But at Trespasser we already KNOW that Hawke is no longer in Weisshaupt. She/he left it already." Maybe there is some confusion...I was not talking about Trespasser or DA4. I was talking about the artwork above, which shows Fenris reading Varric's letter. In this case, Hawke just left for Weisshaupt, so I'm certain Fenris would follow rather than sit there and mope as the picture shows him doing. It's still a beautiful drawing, though.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 0:02:51 GMT
Catilina - They didn't cared about Blood Mage Hawke because that's just specialization. About romance they have Keep with questions about it. You don't have any question to DA II specialization. That's why Eloise for no reason had daggers instead of bow (she was archer). But romance is right over there in Keep, also question about state of Fenris in game. And I never had Sebastian so I didn't had this banter. It's not about betrayal. It's about justice. Justice for murdered. Even if Aveline don't want to do harm to Hawke she is Guard Captain. It's her duty to arrest Anders. She even tells him that once it's end the fight she will arrest him. Merrill or Fenris can turn blind eye and don't point on Anders for Hawke. Bethany or Carver can be silent - but Aveline or Varric have duties. One as guard captain and second as viscount. I'm talking about longer time about post-Trespasser times. Anders is wanted by Chantry. Anders is wanted by Kirkwall. He did not hide with what he did. Even if Hawke companions or Cullen will be silent there was bunch of templars ! Some of them may be living, and what ? They will point out at Anders at once and tell "That's him ! He is the apostate who blowed up Kirkwall Temple of Andraste ! He murdered Grand Cleric Elthina !" Whether Hawke likes it or not what Anders did was a crime which will not be forgotten by majority of people. I may hope Anders could with Theresa live free as marriage and family (since Carver or Gamlen are laughable relatives for her) but I don't think that's possible since Anders did this at the end of DA II The Blood Magic not "only a specialization", this is important issue in the Inquisition, and the blood mage Hawke's reaction of blood magic is tragicomic... You know Varric never betrayed Hawke, even to Cassandra... He knew how he can connect him/her, and he also knew that probably Anders is with him/her. Aveline also, otherwise how she could was able to informed Hawke, that she took away Carver from Free Marches? I think, our modern media don't exist in Thedas, no satelites, no television, mobilphone, Facebook, they don't have one photograpy... Only thing, that can lead the Templars (and which Templars? the crazy red ones?...) would be Anders' phylactery – if don't destroyed anytime. Do not forget: there is chaos, war and punctured the sky. Not so easy to find two people. Later? I don't know, maybe they can move in Tevinter, if the circles are no longer constitute a threat to Mages. Anders only could live free and happy, if he can work for mages. If not, he will lose the control over himself, as i see, and as I said. Justice can not ignored... unless they find a way to separate them (but they are merged). |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 0:06:16 GMT
dragontartare - I read those comics, good stuff however not very good on mine Eloise who romanced Fenris. How follow ? You need Inquisitor hand to open entrance to Fade where Hawke would stay. Not to mention this Terror area was opened by accident. He can't follow her/him. I can't believe in this kid from comic. Inquistion is like ... few months after DA II ? And they would already have kid with magical abilities ? I thought magical abilities shows up at 12. Not to mention it would be foolish if Hawke tried to stay in Fade while she/he would have kid already, also Stroud would use it in argue as excuse. Not to forget that Hawke was running and hiding from end of DA II. Not the best time for having kids. About future of Dragon Age we obvioulsy got mixed up since I was speaking about DA 4 since that one is which I am interested from BioWare only. Mass Effect is dead franchise to me. And I don't buy some comics or go on DeviantArt so I don't talk about it too often. Catilina - That's the point, what I would expect Theresa to do would be normal official living with her boyfriend. But how would that look given what Anders did ? "Hey it's mine boyfriend Grey Warden Anders. You know him ... he blowed up local temple !" Anders will do thing like living in Hawke Estate at Kirkwall with Hawke ? Chantry will wind that up and demand arrest, people will know him too, tamplars will remember, mages who didn't likes slaughter of Templar-Mage will know him, Varric and Aveline CANNOT stand blind to this. At best Varric will step down from position, Aveline too. Someone else will replace them and they will have NO regret with arresting Anders. Everybody wanted Anders after end of DA II. They must have describe how he looked, asked poor from Darktown too. They have probably describes - remember Varric in book even did image of Anders ! So at basic they know how he look, from people will know the eye color, nose all facial details. All this will land as memo from Kirkwall Guard to all Free Marches and far from it - Ferelden, Orlais, Antiva etc. Everywhere where Chantry is. Even Justinia wouldn't help and now Divine Victoria will have ZERO interest in turning blind eye on Anders. He was supposed to be in Inquisition as almost lunatic hermit. That's how serious is supposed to be chase after him. He can't show up officialy near Hawke - even Varric and Theresa knew this at Inquisition. The only normal life for them is in Tevinter. As for Anders happiness I think after DA II he stopped with too much about mage since he lead to drastic changes of Circles if not to disband of them. He will be happy to just be with romanced Hawke. For mechanics of DA II it was just specialization. Not to mention magic of this probably lead to turning Leandra into this zombie, also Grace used blood magic on hostage. Entire DA II could give plenty of reasons for Hawke to turn to hate blood magic even if they practicesed it in DA II. Also BioWare may tell you such stupidity like "Hawke throw away his blood magic practices after events in Kirkwall." It's not as important as fate of companion or romance to BioWare. Eloise wasn't an archer and Theresa wasn't healer at Inquisition. There was plenty of reasons for them to use those skills - Eloise on blanks at Grey Warden fortress, and Theresa could at various points heal anyone who is hurt but she don't. Only Christian was done good.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 0:22:07 GMT
dragontartare - I read those comics, good stuff however not very good on mine Eloise who romanced Fenris. How follow ? You need Inquisitor hand to open entrance to Fade where Hawke would stay. Not to mention this Terror area was opened by accident. He can't follow her/him. I can't believe in this kid from comic. Inquistion is like ... few months after DA II ? And they would already have kid with magical abilities ? I thought magical abilities shows up at 12. Not to mention it would be foolish if Hawke tried to stay in Fade while she/he would have kid already, also Stroud would use it in argue as excuse. Not to forget that Hawke was running and hiding from end of DA II. Not the best time for having kids. About future of Dragon Age we obvioulsy got mixed up since I was speaking about DA 4 since that one is which I am interested from BioWare only. Mass Effect is dead franchise to me. And I don't buy some comics or go on DeviantArt so I don't talk about it too often. [...] Do not take so seriously this comic ... just a cute thing. |
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), how they have dealt with politics so they will have to listen to her/him and change. Dorian during his life tended to be ... parias with pride in being one. He doesn't care about being Magister Pavus heir, after coming out it was even more clear to him that he despise politics or standards of Tevinter society. 
), so of course I'd want to see old characters again in future games 
I wouldn't want either one to die.