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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 0:29:22 GMT
dragontartare - I read those comics, good stuff however not very good on mine Eloise who romanced Fenris. How follow ? You need Inquisitor hand to open entrance to Fade where Hawke would stay. Not to mention this Terror area was opened by accident. He can't follow her/him. I can't believe in this kid from comic. Inquistion is like ... few months after DA II ? And they would already have kid with magical abilities ? I thought magical abilities shows up at 12. Not to mention it would be foolish if Hawke tried to stay in Fade while she/he would have kid already, also Stroud would use it in argue as excuse. Not to forget that Hawke was running and hiding from end of DA II. Not the best time for having kids. About future of Dragon Age we obvioulsy got mixed up since I was speaking about DA 4 since that one is which I am interested from BioWare only. Mass Effect is dead franchise to me. And I don't buy some comics or go on DeviantArt so I don't talk about it too often. [...] Do not take so seriously this comic ... just a cute thing. Well I don't take them serious. Cute vision but unfortunately untrue. BioWare will rather die then allow any hero of theirs have child after Kieran in case of Morrigan who is programmed to to look exacly like Morrigan. |
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 24, 2016 0:38:12 GMT
Catilina - I was going to say the same thing. Thank you  noname55rr - Weisshaupt is a fortress in the Anderfels. There is no reason Fenris wouldn't be able to go there. DA 2 ends in 9:37, while Inquisition begins in 9:41. But as Catilina said, it's just a cute little comic. You are taking it too seriously.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 1:05:47 GMT
Catilina and dragontartare - She was with Anders because she thought she understand him. Also it was he who first started to her.
You may say she should left him right there but this ... nope. She never knew he was going to blow up Chantry. Fighting for mages freedom ? Sure. She was agreeing with that idea truly - that's why she was ready at the end to kill Carver if she would be forced to.
That's how serious she was on belief in this idea. That was the point where they both were fighting side by side over this matter.
They were idealists in this case.
She never get to know Justice however. And it was Justice doings which blow up Chantry.
Hard to know Justice if all she had was just partially showing him up at various occassions.
If she was easy letting go then she would break up right at the end. She didn't because she went all full run away since all of them assumed they will be chased by templars and Chantry for what Anders did. That's why they all vanished after two so Cassandra was looking after them.
But after years like in case of Trespasser or any DA hero must stop thinking about some sort of short relation.
People change, they want stability. Not to mention we speak about Champion of Kirkwall. Just like Varric or Aveline also Hawke has now some duties. She must be in Kirkwall time to time. She is their polis treasure for sake.
Don't tell me that all what your Hawke's who romanced with Anders would never be tired of running away or hiding. Eventually it would grow on every single person. No matter how patient or stubborn they are.
Zevran attitude was changing due to romance in Origins, Allistair was changing due to loyalty mission, Isabella was changing over the years, Aveline was changing over the years, events of DA II changed Varric, Hawke was changed as well.
That was exacly what also mattered to Bethany - it was her who touched this topic and now I see why you both lack knowledge about this matter for mages since as I good remember you both prefered Carver. How tired someone may be of constant hiding and running.
She and Theresa was doing this thing entire life, now thanks to position of Champion Hawke knows how it's like to be sure about their future sure about their life. And what ? Go all way back again to running and hiding ? To constant fear of being discovered ?
Well I say it's stupid idea to constant hide.
Tevinter is the only option for them to live free ? So be it. After all Anders was agreeing with Imperial Chantry point on mages in DA II.
You were talking about Weisshaupt ? I thought you again speak about comic where Hawke was trapped in the Fade.
I don't know how long is taking for messages to be delivered from Skyhold to Kirkwall ... by that time Hawke will be hard to find on entire territory which is between Weisshaupt and Orlais. Morrigan ring would help only at this sort of navigation.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 1:12:09 GMT
[...] Catilina - That's the point, what I would expect Theresa to do would be normal official living with her boyfriend. But how would that look given what Anders did ? "Hey it's mine boyfriend Grey Warden Anders. You know him ... he blowed up local temple !"  Anders will do thing like living in Hawke Estate at Kirkwall with Hawke ? Chantry will wind that up and demand arrest, people will know him too, tamplars will remember, mages who didn't likes slaughter of Templar-Mage will know him, Varric and Aveline CANNOT stand blind to this. At best Varric will step down from position, Aveline too. Someone else will replace them and they will have NO regret with arresting Anders. Everybody wanted Anders after end of DA II. They must have describe how he looked, asked poor from Darktown too. They have probably describes - remember Varric in book even did image of Anders ! So at basic they know how he look, from people will know the eye color, nose all facial details. All this will land as memo from Kirkwall Guard to all Free Marches and far from it - Ferelden, Orlais, Antiva etc. Everywhere where Chantry is. Even Justinia wouldn't help and now Divine Victoria will have ZERO interest in turning blind eye on Anders. He was supposed to be in Inquisition as almost lunatic hermit. That's how serious is supposed to be chase after him. He can't show up officialy near Hawke - even Varric and Theresa knew this at Inquisition. The only normal life for them is in Tevinter. As for Anders happiness I think after DA II he stopped with too much about mage since he lead to drastic changes of Circles if not to disband of them. He will be happy to just be with romanced Hawke. For mechanics of DA II it was just specialization. Not to mention magic of this probably lead to turning Leandra into this zombie, also Grace used blood magic on hostage. Entire DA II could give plenty of reasons for Hawke to turn to hate blood magic even if they practicesed it in DA II. Also BioWare may tell you such stupidity like "Hawke throw away his blood magic practices after events in Kirkwall." It's not as important as fate of companion or romance to BioWare. Eloise wasn't an archer and Theresa wasn't healer at Inquisition. There was plenty of reasons for them to use those skills - Eloise on blanks at Grey Warden fortress, and Theresa could at various points heal anyone who is hurt but she don't. Only Christian was done good. If Theresa wanted a normal boyfriend, then she never wanted Anders truly. I never said, that Anders go back to Kirkwall with Hawke. They are will hiding, as long as they should. I dont think, Hawke drop his skill, because there are mages, who uses wrong. magic = knife, arrow, something. If you know that there are murderers who kill with a knife, you do not use the knife anymore? (sorry, I deleted this before. Now updated)Anders wants a quiet life, but will not be able to do it, as long as the Circles constitute a threat to mages. If no more templar prison guards, and kidnapping mage children, Anders can be happy. (Zevran dont have Justice.) |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 1:26:07 GMT
@ Catilina - She wanted someone who understood the struggle, someone close to her. And if her only living relative is Carver who hates her and uncle Gamlen who would try to get coins from her to gamble then you have very pathological situation in male relatives already. Not to mention Bethany on Anders is saying that he reminds her of Malcolm Hawke. Yeah, Malcolm Hawke. Overall this situation brings back tons of topics related to Bethany struggle ... how she described living with such burden for everyone. Anders was always around, he was healer like her, knew the cause which she believed in. They were close in many areas of mind. The only problem was this - she knew Anders but NEVER EVER Justice. She loved him, so she agreed to run away with him or not to kill him for his deeds - even if everyone else except Merrill demanded his head. "Normality" is point of view. What you see as "normal" someone else will see as "not normal". At best at Kirkwall stable relation with hiding Anders was that he was at home thanks to key to Darktown. But now everybody know what he did so even Darktown is unavailable for him to hide ! He must stay away from Kirkwall. Guess who needs to show up in Kirkwall time to time ? Hawke. Right on Trespasser is a problem with any Anders romance for not only Theresa for every Hawke who romanced him. Just imagine female Hawke if she will expect child. What does this mean for those two ? Well children demands certain stability. Like home. Or finances, there is a lot of things which in case of pregnancy will be needed. In this case we start to have problem. Anders crime is too big for them to be missed everywhere else except Tevinter. Living in constant fear of being discovered was something what does not make anybody happy - not Leandra, not Malcolm Hawke, not Bethany, not Theresa, not Fenris, not Anders, Merrill, not Zevran or Isabella. They were all struggling of being discovered. Love is hardly enough to keep up with such struggle, you could see it from Leandra and Malcolm case. Leandra was almost never smiling according to Bethany, why ? Because she was unhappy. Why ? Becuase she lived in constant fear of templars discovering her family. Imagine live such life for Hawke after DA II and DA I. Day after day, month after month, year after year. I may imagine Anders being in Tevinter staying there while Theresa just visits Kirkwall. He is safe, Kirkwall is happy, Aveline is happy, Varric is happy everybody are happy. Just Anders lives in Tevinter with Hawke. That simple. Fenris is less problematic as L.I. I swear. Even Trespasser was generally repairing all three others romances - inclueding Isabella romance, and we know that she probably should be sailing 3/4 time of year. Anders is only one which doesn't have the right fix. Well they may feel trauma or disgust to this skill and avoid it. There was a lady who stopped driving a car thanks to her husband who constantly was yelling and critizing her when she was driving. She never drove car again, even when he lost his license. The same can happen to blood mage Hawke. What do you want from Zevran now ? I used him as example of slow change of view. Just like everyone else listed right after him. They all changed their views. You don't need Justice to change yourself a little. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 1:48:55 GMT
@ Catilina - She wanted someone who understood the struggle, someone close to her. And if her only living relative is Carver who hates her and uncle Gamlen who would try to get coins from her to gamble then you have very patological situation in male relatives already. Not to mention Bethany on Anders is saying that he reminds her of Malcolm Hawke. Yeah, Malcolm Hawke. Anders was always around, he was healer like her, knew the cause which she believed in. They were close in many areas of mind. The only problem was this - she knew Anders but NEVER EVER Justice. She loved him, so she agreed to run away with him or not to kill him for his deeds - even if everyone else except Merrill demanded his head. "Normality" is point of view. What you see as "normal" someone else will see as "not normal".At best at Kirkwall stable relation with hiding Anders was that he was at home thanks to key to Darktown. But now everybody know what he did so even Darktown is unavailable for him to hide ! He must stay away from Kirkwall. Guess who needs to show up in Kirkwall time to time ? Hawke. Right on Trespasser is a problem with any Anders romance for not only Theresa for every Hawke who romanced him. Just imagine female Hawke if she will expect child. What does this mean for those two ? Well children demands certain stability. Like home. Or finances, there is a lot of things which in case of pregnancy will be needed. In this case we start to have problem. Anders crime is too big for them to be missed everywhere else except Tevinter.I may imagine Anders being in Tevinter staying there while Theresa just visits Kirkwall. He is safe, Kirkwall is happy, Aveline is happy, Varric is happy everybody are happy. Just Anders lives in Tevinter with Hawke. That simple. Fenris is less problematic as L.I. I swear. Even Trespasser was generally repairing all three others romances - inclueding Isabella romance, and we know that she probably should be sailing 3/4 time of year. Anders is only one which doesn't have the right fix. Well they may feel trauma or disgust to this skill and avoid it. There was a lady who stopped driving a car thanks to her husband who constantly was yelling and critizing her when she was driving. She never drove car again, even when he lost his license. The same can happen to blood mage Hawke. What do you want from Zevran now ? I used him as example of slow change of view. Just like everyone else listed right after him. They all changed their views. You don't need Justice to change yourself a little. Anders are not normal, and probably never will be... (And one more point, why Anders romance better with male Hawke?) They are will hiding, as long as they should. Maybe never will get a chance for a "normal" life together. Anders have Justice, tainted, and moreover, he is still wanted for... he have so much problem. Yes, he want a "normal" life, as anyone else, but I do not know whether it is possible. Yes. Fenris much more easier. Those who deal with blood magic, mostly quite self-confident. This fact should not have been overlooked, I still think. (I'm sure, my Hawke don't dropped his skill just because another mages used for wrong – as also Merrill for example.) You're right. I don't need Justice for change myself. Rather: if I have Justice (a spirit, an another person in me), change myself much more complicated... |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 11:23:43 GMT
Catilina - I said BioWare may use this as stupid excuse of why Hawke is so anti-blood magic for no reason in Inquistion. I know BioWare too well from ME (this horrible useless ending !!!  ) so for me this stupid explanation is that obvious. About Anders again and Fenris too - I highly doubt that they are not able to try to live normal life. Anders was like living in one home with you. Yeah, Anders who must hide just like Fenris. More than this I was always doubting that Grey Warden or Templars actually look after him. Templars in Kirkwall probably were looking for apostates like Evelina in Darktown. Since Anders was Grey Warden templars would leave his fate to Grey Wardens. Anders was Grey Warden so he was Grey Wardens buisnsess, more then this Grey Wardens are more volonteer group so if anyone doesn't really wants to be with them after Joining they don't really see the problem unless this person will speak about secret of Joining to others. But Anders never did that. Until Justice (because let's remember Justice not always did what Anders want - like it wanted force him to kill Ella) decided to blow up temple, nobody would really want look after Anders. Fenris dealed with his sister and Denarius, he is now totally free. He escaped at the end just like everyone else since they thought that templars and Chantry will chase them. He can now after Trespasser (and Inquisition reveal that Justinia told everybody at conclave speech to not blame Hawke and her companions - only Anders) try to live normal. If he want. If Anders wants try to live normal he must live in Tevinter. More then this do you have Jaws of Hakkon ? There was this situation with one Avvar girl who did not seperate with her teacher - a spirit living inside her. She was suppose to do old traditional offering so spirit would depart from her. She was litteraly an abomination, and yet Avvars know the way to depossess themselves. And yeah Avvars would possibly consider Anders per "normal person" Why not try this on Anders ? Justice was his friend, perhaps even Avvar would know how to redirect spirit like Justice to Fade itself. You may explain your question about Male Hawke and Anders because I didn't understood it. So Anders homo romance is better because it's literally the end of Hawke line ? Since we have scneario for Carver dead/templar (who usually avoid having families)/Grey Wardens (who die early and it's near to impossible for them to have children) and Bethany dead/Mage (who usually are feared by society still)/ bitter Gray Warden (female Wardens have even less chances for having kids than males). So on siblings we can count with this. Like I said before in Dorian part Thedas seem to not have any adoptions. All we had was this Sera final speech story about her and "Lady Emmald", which seem kinda like adoption.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 11:52:08 GMT
Catilina - I said BioWare may use this as stupid excuse of why Hawke is so anti-blood magic for no reason in Inquistion. I know BioWare too well from ME (this horrible useless ending !!! ) so for me this stupid explanation is that obvious. About Anders again and Fenris too - I highly doubt that they are not able to try to live normal life. Anders was like living in one home with you. Yeah, Anders who must hide just like Fenris. More than this I was always doubting that Grey Warden or Templars actually look after him. Templars in Kirkwall probably were looking for apostates like Evelina in Darktown. Since Anders was Grey Warden templars would leave his fate to Grey Wardens. Anders was Grey Warden so he was Grey Wardens buisnsess, more then this Grey Wardens are more volonteer group so if anyone doesn't really wants to be with them after Joining they don't really see the problem unless this person will speak about secret of Joining to others. But Anders never did that. Until Justice (because let's remember Justice not always did what Anders want - like it wanted force him to kill Ella) decided to blow up temple, nobody would really want look after Anders. Fenris dealed with his sister and Denarius, he is now totally free. He escaped at the end just like everyone else since they thought that templars and Chantry will chase them. He can now after Trespasser (and Inquisition reveal that Justinia told everybody at conclave speech to not blame Hawke and her companions - only Anders) try to live normal. If he want. If Anders wants try to live normal he must live in Tevinter. More then this do you have Jaws of Hakkon ? There was this situation with one Avvar girl who did not seperate with her teacher - a spirit living inside her. She was suppose to do old traditional offering so spirit would depart from her. She was litteraly an abomination, and yet Avvars know the way to depossess themselves. And yeah Avvars would possibly consider Anders per "normal person" Why not try this on Anders ? Justice was his friend, perhaps even Avvar would know how to redirect spirit like Justice to Fade itself. You may explain your question about Male Hawke and Anders because I didn't understood it. And I said: this is why I dont believe, that the Bioware able to handle Hawkes' diversified relationship with Fenris/Anders, if one of them (or both) will return. It's much more complicated than this simple blood mage problem. Yes, Fenris have chance for a normal life. However, his situation is similar to Anders' situation because probably he also did not rest until he should help to the slaves. Separate Justice and Anders maybe even possible, but definitely risky. The question is whether it would agree Anders or not. Anders do not speak about his relationship with Karl to female Hawke, just to male Hawke. I think, his relationship with Karl is important thing for understandig some reactions of Anders, when he speak about Karl (I see, he speak so sad – or I dont know, how to describe his reaction, but he seems he speak about more than a friend, when he said for example [question – why he came to Kirkwall]: "…and some reasons of my own” "…and the letters stop coming...",) and make his motivation (why he risk his own life for Karl in Kirkwall) more personal. I think, this is also stupid thing. And you mentioned, that female Hawke want a normal family with Anders. And I don't know female Hawke so mutch, but I saw some reactions, that Anders treat female Hawke otherwise, than male Hawke. (In the Anders' thread you can see more reviews about it.) |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 12:53:08 GMT
@ Catilina - I know Anders was homo back at Awekening. I just waited for him to bang in drunk session with Oghren. They were the same sort of people. And Karl I sensed anything even on Eloise. And it was Eloise who was by Anders somehow "chased" with romance option even if she never intended this one.
Karl was important he is ex-lover, Theresa sensed it just like Eloise and somehow he even told this one lately to Christian Hawke pfff.
I am not into homosexuality in any RPG.
The only lesbian which I truly liked and treated like SISTER (never crush !) was Veronica Santangelo from New Vegas.
I do not think even Leandra should approve of this homosexual relation. She should be just as scared as Dorian father was.
Since Anders is bisexual then I can clearly see where two stands: heterosexual relationship and homosexual relationship will split.
Since by logic homosexual relationship is "fruitless" then they can go easily escaping, hiding, massacrating, fighting for so called "justice" - because you know it was this damn JUSTICE who was happy to sell Fenris back to Denarius and what sort of JUSTICE is that !? - and finally getting themsleves killed from people opposite to their view.
On the other hand heterosexual relation is far more ... connecting. It demands more. Like stability. It has other possibilities like having kids. I honestly believe that if there would be a kid in scenario of Theresa and Anders would want to hide and don't even consider to settle in Tevinter I think right over there main concern of Theresa would be this preganancy. Women tends to sacriface their partners and relationships when it comes to children. If Anders won't change mind about stability, Theresa will have to leave him. It wasn't the first time when he lied to her. Like with this potion, or that he never tells her ANYTHING more personal which she should know.
Like him having still mother, or even his real name ... that last one even Karl never knew.
Fenris was easier when it comes to anything with relation after DA II. Varric still spoke in Inquisition how he is happy that it won't be him who will tell Fenris personally (or be near him) when he learns about Hawke travel to the Fade. What means that mine favourite romance option still is much unpredictable from showing of feelings.
I don't expect any of them of giving up on their priority missions. Like Fenris wanting still to fight slavery. Or Anders with better life to mages ... I don't expect them to do this. I expect them to little calm down with those things. No more blowing up temples, no more ripping out hearts like in Hadriana case and then going mad and scream at Hawke for this.
I'm sorry but I don't see me to play in ANY game other than the Sims with homosexual character. And we all know that the Sims is simulator not RPG.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 13:24:51 GMT
(Leandra accept very well, that her son in love with Anders/Fenris.) I think Bioware did some stupid thing in the game, for more drama... Such is that Anders/Justice would return Fenris to Danarius, or that Fenris want to blackmail Thrask. For example this both things are not fit the characters ( Justice want to see a slave to back his former master?! I think, that's ridiculous idea...), as I see. More fit for example Fenris' character that moment, if Anders had killed Ella, Fenris told to Anders, that this is the time to realize his limitations, and that this not condemnation, just a suggestion. (~2:05) I just found that in YouTube. This moment better describes the nature of Fenris, than that the stupid Thrask-scene... I don't want to argue about your play style, nor whether you to accept the homosexuality in the RPGs or not. I just mentioned, that Anders romance better with male Hawke (seems Karl was the one person in his life, whit whom he was close romantic relation). |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 13:38:44 GMT
@ Catilina - romance BETTER with male Hawke is opinion. Opinion is personal. Just like it was you who said Bethany was plain and too boring.
I found her the only correctly portrayed family member of Hawke line. And the one with so much depth in her thanks to her struggle with being mage, blaming herself for family misfortunes, wondering if all wasn't better if she simply would not exist.
We don't match opinion and you already got the taste of struggles of too-goodie Theresa back at Carver topic.
Anders is just yet another part of her story and struggle, just as blaming herself for not stopping Bethany back at ogre scene or not finding Leandra on time.
I'm sorry I may get to this too personal since you stated that if she wanted this little change of behave in Anders she never wanted to be with him. I had plenty of time on Theresa to dump Anders and there was never role-playing reason good enough so she would do it. Not even at the end. She still believed in him. She still had hope.
It's just stupid to say this - it's literally what Justice would say. He made Anders in DA II that edgy, "or you agree with me or you are mine enemy, no other choice".
And yeah I don't get WHY Fenris wanted Thrask blackmailed. Never get him there anymore. I think it's just as Keran case where Fenris don't want possible abomination to walk amongs templars so he doesn't want templar who personally hides apostate to be in order as well. Especially now given how this apostate easily turned into abomination since she was lacking training.
About homosexuality is not about acceptance. I MAY accept that Sera or Dorian are homosexuals. But that does not mean I am already happy to go with character which I will PLAY MYSELF who will look at girl (while being girl) and tell "uuh you are attractive", to role play I must feel connection to character at very basics. That's why I do all of them hetero. No matter if I play male or female, they are hetero.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 14:18:21 GMT
noname55rr : All right, your choice. Much better if I don't say something here about it. ... Thrask hides not an apostate, he hides his doughter! I know, why Fenris don't likes Thrask. But the blackmail as tool simple not fit Fenris's nature. 1. I think, if Fenris don't have a very good reason, he would never use this tool for his goals. 2. Fenris have a logical mind, and to blackmail Thrask, because he had an apostate doughter not just cruel and disgusting, but even illogical. If he see a potential danger in Thrask, he must be see also that the blackmail don't will prevent this danger.
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 14:37:54 GMT
noname55rr : All right, your choice. Much better if I don't say something here about it. ... Thrask hides not an apostate, he hides his doughter! I know, why Fenris don't likes Thrask. But the blackmail as tool simple not fit Fenris's nature. 1. I think, if Fenris don't have a very good reason, he would never use this tool for his goals. 2. Fenris have a logical mind, and to blackmail Thrask, because he had an apostate doughter not just cruel and disgusting, but even illogical. If he see a potential danger in Thrask, he must be see also that the blackmail don't will prevent this danger. Yes he hides his illegitimate daughter. Who IS an apostate. Who IS untrained mage. Fenris may don't LIKE Thrask himself for betraying the idea of being templar - it was his duty to send Olivia to Circle. Also put in mind how Circle works, they usually send far away recruited to Circle. Like Amell's from Kirkwall in Ferelden Circle, or Anders from Anderfels in Ferelden Circle, or Vivienne from Free Marches sended to Orlais circle. Circles usually send their mages away from homeland. Things like Connor are usually not very often. Fenris may not exacly wanting to blackmail him but just to tell templars that he was hiding an apostate so they should throw him out of order - so he won't do this again. Remember it was Thrask who gave Grace later chance to kiddnap someone. It was Thrask who didn't mind Grace using blood magic. It was templars like Thrask who instead go and help Emeric find missing women like Mherena and prevent future murder of Leandra they just go and conspiracy with bunch of BLOOD MAGES, like this cow and all of Starkvahen Circle remnants (like damn Quentin was !) to do more and more harm. Just because Tharsk was crazy over idea of Meredith ruling. Meredith started to loose herself after Bartrand sold her statue. But even then it took years for statue to actually do big damage to psyche of Meredith. Fenris approved of kicking out Kerran. He approved of sending Feynriel to Circle and then at the end making him tranquil so he won't harm anybody else anymore. Fenris demanded to kill son of judge who was insane serial killer - to do justice for murdered countless elven children whose killer had thick blanket of protection from his father. Fenris is all about avoiding all things of corruption. Wheter you speak about magic, racism towards elves, criminals or just betrayal in Orders like Templars or Chantry - he did not liked Petrice movement after all. Fenris cared mostly about justice to common people. Anders cared only about mages, thanks to Justice. Even Isabella pointed that one out. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 15:02:44 GMT
And if you to blackmail Thrask, that fact will prevent him to do that things? No. Thrask know, that you know his secret, you don't need to blacmail to demonstrate it. And Fenris know that. So I still think: to blacmail Thrask do not fit Fenris' nature. Meredith was paranoid, before she would to buy the red lyrium from Bartrand. She did not need red lyrium to go mad (She kicked Samson from the Order, and tranquilized Maddox for a love letter, she tranquilized Karl for an attempt to escape... this is not "normal"). The red lyrium just icing on the cake, and prepares that the Templars become abomination at the time of the Inquisition. Yes, Fenris is a good person (but not because he approved to kick Keran – Anders tested him – and to send Feynriel to this terrible Circle, and finally to tranquil him...). This is the one of the reasons, why I think: Fenris don't want to blackmail Thrask. This is simple not his tool for the justice. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 15:28:04 GMT
Catilina - I tell you what Fenris would like to do. I still think it's stupid that you may BLACKMAIL him instead of just getting him kicked out of order like Karan was. I don't see any reason for blackmail. Fenris possibly agreed on blackmail as some sort of punishment for Thrask for his deeds. Becuase by program there is no other punishment for Olivia fate in case of Thrask. Even if there should be. I found that choice dumb and this may explain approval from Fenris in this matter. You either blackmail him or you let him go as nothing never happened. No real repercussion for Olivia death. Meredith was sane before Red Lyrium Idol. She was sane, not paranoid. She knew dangers of magic from her sister case. She was aware of this, and unlike some of her templars she was sane and seem no pleasure from doing her job. I actually admired Meredith as antagonist during game, just like Orisino she was two sided. Ending was just little weird and out of character in case of Orisino but fine. Inquisition should be left here now alone since it was STUPID for BioWare to tell me that Red Lyrium influenced almost everyone in Order. I really liked Sir Barris, mission of Templars was fine, and I do not regret supporting templars in Inquisition on Verissa Lavellan. I really get out the cry of mages from DA II as well as I started to see how bad things are on line Templars-Chantry. Just look at Petrice treating of her Sir Varnell who she influenced herself to become more and more radical on qunari. The only reason why mine mage Evelyn Travelyan didn't go on Templar side was that Vivienne gain more approval as Divine if you force Mages to be in Inquistion. Also I wanted to try out this forcing option.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 15:51:23 GMT
Thrask received his punishment, I think. The blackmail as option not bad, because Hawke need money for the expedition and for life, and you can play as a greedy Hawke. Fenris' reaction was stupid, as I see. Meredith was not sane , because of her sister, and her sister one of the best proof to this fact: the Chantry's Circle-system is totally wrong. Meredith was good antagonist, I think too. Orsino's fate also proove, that the Circle-system totally wrong, and most the apostates in Kirkwall prooves this fact. Evelina was a good person, Huon had a nice wife, and a hope for good family, before he kidnapped by templars, and they needed to die from the despair. Stupid or not stupid: this was the story of the Inquisition. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 17:11:58 GMT
@ Catilina - We are in disagreement here. To be insane Meredith should be all over the game like she was in Act III.
But we can clearly see her slow change into more and more unstable, untill she is insane from her anti-mage view.
Stupid choices and BioWare like to go together.
If you would say Chantry is wrong I would agree.
Circle as I see it at very basic has reasons to be - but as institution to train mages only. Not some prisons. Remember that there were good points of Circle. Even Bethany was stating this. It was better for her to be in Circle since she come out from shadow of being mage and was finally able to practice magic. She even got friends in Circle - yes Bethany was teaching Ella and she liked her.
But Circles just like Templars must have been changed.
Huon was man who was hiding as apostate. First mistake in Huon case was that his parent kept him and raised him as apostate.
Finally he was noticed and taken out. Another mistake to Huon was that Chantry does not acknowledge somehow divorces.
Huon should be divorced at once with his wife when he was taken by templars.
In this case innocent Nyssa wouldn't suffer her fate of being alone.
Fenris does see Circle good sides, he asks Bethany if it wouldn't been for her better if she was in Circle. And to see it from DA II it was better. Bethany liked somehow the Circle. She was in some way happy there.
Sure just like Vivienne stated, she wrote that there are normal templars and then there are anti-mage templars who she tries to avoid.
Case of Inqiusition is how to deal with mess created by Anders.
And Inquisition puts that clear, it wasn't just mages who suffered at hands of Chantry. Samson in DA II was proof of templars suffer. Bah, this possessed templar in Origins was proof of how inhumane are treated templars by the Chantry.
If ANYTHING Inquisiton was showing it was the CHANTRY FAIL. It was the Chantry who made Circles a damn prisons, it was the Chantry and Orlais who did harm to Dalish Elves, it was Chantry who teached the racism and hate towards elves - so no wonder about rape situation at beggining of Origins for City Elf, it was the Chantry who misused and abused templars by making them suffering addicts to lyrium, it was the Chantry who was first to make scape-goats - Inquisition or Dalish Elves, it was the Chantry who loved to cause Qunari uprising in Kirkwall.
And it is the Chantry which must change as priority.
Templars were victims as much as Mages were. The only thing which was different it was that Templars suffered in silence. While Mages were screaming by their action of their abuse. I did not support Leliana as Divine to disband Templars - I see they are needed, just like Fenris did in DA II - I supported her because what she wants to do basically means the destruction of Chantry itself.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 17:50:36 GMT
Bethany "likes" the Circle just because she dont want to runaway all her life, and first times in her life she meet with her fellow mages, and see that big library. Carver could see the much bigger part of the truth as Templar: He wrote in the family letter, that he are glad, because of Bethany never knew the Circle. "Dear ...,
How are you? I hope you and Mother are doing well. Things are good here. I've found my place among the templars. It's nice to have purpose, to be part of something bigger than myself... and you! All right, all right, I'll stop being a pain in the ass.
It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.
Unfortunately, there are extreme elements within the Order. Some argue for a permanent solution and have ideas I hope never take root. Makes me glad Bethany never had to live in a place like this.
I'll wrap this up. Duty calls. Send my love to Mother.
Your brother, Carver"Yes, and WHAT? Templars and mages was different just only thing that: Templars suffered SILENCE, and mages where SCREAMING? ... Templars are victims too, but never as much as mages. Don't forget: the templars takes their own decision, when they are joined to the Chantry, the mages born as mages, mostly even as child kidnapped, and they have only two decisions: they will lives in the Circle as prisoner, or escapes, and lives as apostate fugitive in their whole life. (Vivienne is wrong. And so much annoying person with her bad manners.) Fenris are wrong in this issue. I like to belive, that Fenris accept this kind of the slavery, just because of the Tevinter magokracy and slavery. Nobody deserved punishment just because of his/her born. |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 24, 2016 22:33:57 GMT
Bethany "likes" the Circle just because she dont want to runaway all her life, and first times in her life she meet with her fellow mages, and see that big library. Carver could see the much bigger part of the truth as Templar: He wrote in the family letter, that he are glad, because of Bethany never knew the Circle. "Dear ...,
How are you? I hope you and Mother are doing well. Things are good here. I've found my place among the templars. It's nice to have purpose, to be part of something bigger than myself... and you! All right, all right, I'll stop being a pain in the ass.
It's not a perfect job, though. I don't really like what we do to mages, but do we have a choice? It keeps everyone safe, and it's better than the alternative. Many mages understand that we're trying to help, even if our methods could use improvement.
Unfortunately, there are extreme elements within the Order. Some argue for a permanent solution and have ideas I hope never take root. Makes me glad Bethany never had to live in a place like this.
I'll wrap this up. Duty calls. Send my love to Mother.
Your brother, Carver"Yes, and WHAT? Templars and mages was different just only thing that: Templars suffered SILENCE, and mages where SCREAMING? ... Templars are victims too, but never as much as mages. Don't forget: the templars takes their own decision, when they are joined to the Chantry, the mages born as mages, mostly even as child kidnapped, and they have only two decisions: they will lives in the Circle as prisoner, or escapes, and lives as apostate fugitive in their whole life. (Vivienne is wrong. And so much annoying person with her bad manners.) Fenris are wrong in this issue. I like to belive, that Fenris accept this kind of the slavery, just because of the Tevinter magokracy and slavery. Nobody deserved punishment just because of his/her born. In silence. They do not scream like mages do - you can't miss in DA II especially the misery of mages. They want you to see it. That's exacly what Cassandra even was mentioning when she was speaking with Inquistor back at Haven. She mentioned this issue of how blind entire Chantry or Seekers were about what's going on with templars. What they are expected to do, what they endure during service - like lyrium addiction which is deadly to not only start but to put out too. Yes you need templars after all. But even Seekers didn't know entire truth about their Order. Hell even Wardens had their secrets. I don't know what you want to do here ... like really I don't understand now. Circles should stay but change, it was Chantry who demanded to turn them into prisons instead of academies. It is Chantry that such Anders father was disgusted with him of being mage and called for templars to take him away from his eyes. Remember misfortune of Amells ? How Revka kids were mages and everything went down ? Just becuase society was teached by CHANTRY to HATE the mages ! Kiddnapped ? Mostly they are taken from parents who agree that this is EMBARRASING and they don't even want to REMEMBER that they had such child ! If Eamon would know about Connor he would sent him to Circle by himself, Anders was given by his father, Evelina turned to Circle by herself, for Wynne was those farmers in fear. Vivienne had right at few points. Circle as organization was needed. It needs change from within, but it needs to be. Just like templars who for sake are the only trained forces who can fight easily with magical dangers like demons or maleficars. Fenris know that Circle keep mages withing from dangers of themselves and dangers of outside. Yeah Bethany liked being around mages where she finally can no longer hide, no longer being ashamed of her magic, can finally stop worrying of her family being discovered and punished ? Yes Bethany could live in Circle for same study of magic and friendship there. And for Bethany the biggest burden was to hide and run entire life and put herself to blaming that it was HER who caused entire family to live such life ! That's what Wynne was mentioning about beauties of Circles - friends and study, safety. Just like Vivienne was also mentioning this as good sides. Fenris see Circles as reasonable option to keep mages save and everyone else save from mages too. Nobody wants another Quentin, Gascard, Grace, Jowan etc. You had plenty of examples where mages are just dangerous to others. Connor unintentionally was so dangerous that he bring disaster to entire village ! Or Meredith sister ! Mages ARE dangerous, that's the fact. Untrained ones are even more dangerous. And what Circle mostly does is training mages ! You dislike Vivienne but that's doesn't mean she is wrong. What Leliana wants to do will cause chaos. I can't imagine on Adaar world state how much of chaos she will cause. Ha Templars are even worse victims, since nobody does CARE about them. Once kicked out they will die from this lyrium addiction or be like Samson begging for another fix. Not to mention Red Lyrium corruption from normal lyrium. It's easy to get them poisoned. Try to understand mages and ends up like Thrask killed by Grace the Cow because he is "not ally since it's templar", you had Tarohne, this poor templar who wanted to have family in Origins, in one of endings Cullen does open some sort of House for ex-Templars where they mostly come just to DIE out of their addiction to lyrium. People call for templars when people need their swords, but when Templars have problem ? "Nope you are on your own" by both people and the Chantry. They are used as TOOLS by Chantry, not some people who serve but like a TOOLS which can be easily dropped and forgotten. You had some psychos there, but mostly in Kirkwall Order since Kirkwall is by nature ... sinister. People join Templars to help people. Or are PROMISED to this Order by families. You know the very same families which are very happy with giving their mage children to Chantry to send them to Chantry Circles of Magi ! Bethany relived Circle herself, unlike Carver. Carver just throws something what he thinks Bethany would feel. He has not the best knowing of Bethany at this as well. He didn't know her struggles and how important was to her to stop be burden for family. Carver throws barely his view as some bitter templar. It's no wonder since he is like always did conscript out of hate to Hawke. |
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Post by Catilina on Aug 24, 2016 23:34:10 GMT
The Circles are necessary as schools and libraries (yes, as in Tevinter). The Circles have control themselves, without lyrium addict Templars (yes, they are also victims), without the Cantry. As I see: Bethany always wanted a normal life. Family. Yes, she dont want runaway in all her life, and dont want to be burden on her family and yes, she want friends, but if would no templars exist, Bethany would have friends husband, whatever she want. You can not convince me,, that Bethany want to live in a prison, if she would can to live in freely. But she can't, because of prison-Circles. Yes, she probably "likes" the Circles. But you are very funny! You blame/hate the Chantry, but you honestly belive the Chantry propaganda... You want to save Templars from lyrium addiction, but you belive, that the Templars abilities are useful things, then you want to force they to use lyrium... I really like it. Leliana's "chaos" is must better option than the weak, but power hungry Vivienne, who fear from her own magic. (and call everyone "my dear, my darling" brrr!) I happily helped Jowan to escape, and wanted to destroy Jowan's and my Surana's phylactery. At also first glance, I found the (Ferelden!) Circle unjust and cruel. And what the Templars had done, when Uldred became idiot? No, they don't tryed to save innocent mages and children. Then what they had done? YES! Closed the doors. Fascinating! Templars are very useful. Really. |
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Post by dragontartare on Aug 25, 2016 0:22:27 GMT
In silence. They do not scream like mages do - you can't miss in DA II especially the misery of mages. They want you to see it. That's exacly what Cassandra even was mentioning when she was speaking with Inquistor back at Haven. She mentioned this issue of how blind entire Chantry or Seekers were about what's going on with templars. What they are expected to do, what they endure during service - like lyrium addiction which is deadly to not only start but to put out too. Yes you need templars after all. But even Seekers didn't know entire truth about their Order. Hell even Wardens had their secrets. I don't know what you want to do here ... like really I don't understand now. Circles should stay but change, it was Chantry who demanded to turn them into prisons instead of academies. It is Chantry that such Anders father was disgusted with him of being mage and called for templars to take him away from his eyes. Remember misfortune of Amells ? How Revka kids were mages and everything went down ? Just becuase society was teached by CHANTRY to HATE the mages ! Kiddnapped ? Mostly they are taken from parents who agree that this is EMBARRASING and they don't even want to REMEMBER that they had such child ! If Eamon would know about Connor he would sent him to Circle by himself, Anders was given by his father, Evelina turned to Circle by herself, for Wynne was those farmers in fear. Vivienne had right at few points. Circle as organization was needed. It needs change from within, but it needs to be. Just like templars who for sake are the only trained forces who can fight easily with magical dangers like demons or maleficars. Fenris know that Circle keep mages withing from dangers of themselves and dangers of outside. Yeah Bethany liked being around mages where she finally can no longer hide, no longer being ashamed of her magic, can finally stop worrying of her family being discovered and punished ? Yes Bethany could live in Circle for same study of magic and friendship there. And for Bethany the biggest burden was to hide and run entire life and put herself to blaming that it was HER who caused entire family to live such life ! That's what Wynne was mentioning about beauties of Circles - friends and study, safety. Just like Vivienne was also mentioning this as good sides. Fenris see Circles as reasonable option to keep mages save and everyone else save from mages too. Nobody wants another Quentin, Gascard, Grace, Jowan etc. You had plenty of examples where mages are just dangerous to others. Connor unintentionally was so dangerous that he bring disaster to entire village ! Or Meredith sister ! Mages ARE dangerous, that's the fact. Untrained ones are even more dangerous. And what Circle mostly does is training mages ! You dislike Vivienne but that's doesn't mean she is wrong. What Leliana wants to do will cause chaos. I can't imagine on Adaar world state how much of chaos she will cause. Ha Templars are even worse victims, since nobody does CARE about them. Once kicked out they will die from this lyrium addiction or be like Samson begging for another fix. Not to mention Red Lyrium corruption from normal lyrium. It's easy to get them poisoned. Try to understand mages and ends up like Thrask killed by Grace the Cow because he is "not ally since it's templar", you had Tarohne, this poor templar who wanted to have family in Origins, in one of endings Cullen does open some sort of House for ex-Templars where they mostly come just to DIE out of their addiction to lyrium. People call for templars when people need their swords, but when Templars have problem ? "Nope you are on your own" by both people and the Chantry. They are used as TOOLS by Chantry, not some people who serve but like a TOOLS which can be easily dropped and forgotten. You had some psychos there, but mostly in Kirkwall Order since Kirkwall is by nature ... sinister. People join Templars to help people. Or are PROMISED to this Order by families. You know the very same families which are very happy with giving their mage children to Chantry to send them to Chantry Circles of Magi ! Bethany relived Circle herself, unlike Carver. Carver just throws something what he thinks Bethany would feel. He has not the best knowing of Bethany at this as well. He didn't know her struggles and how important was to her to stop be burden for family. Carver throws barely his view as some bitter templar. It's no wonder since he is like always did conscript out of hate to Hawke. ...and? Suffering in silence is pointless. If the templars were being mistreated, then they should have started "screaming" at the chantry too. Nothing ever changes until someone starts making noise about it. Bethany only "liked" the circle (the prison) because she knew that, inevitably, she would one day be caught, and it was a relief to get it over with. Imagine a world where mages could live as freely as anyone else, no need to run and no need to hide: do you seriously think Bethany would not have preferred that? The lyrium addiction thing is a tragedy, and the templars are victims of the chantry too; we can agree there. However, you keep ignoring the fact that, by and large, templars choose to join the order. Mages have no choice. From birth, they are either fugitives or prisoners, through no fault of their own. Keep a form of the circles. Require that young mages go to the circle until fully trained, but allow them to maintain family ties, visit home, etc. Like a boarding school. Even keep phylacteries, I guess, if the chantry is ok with the hypocrisy of using blood magic themselves. Then, once fully trained, don't keep them prisoner. You think mages are dangerous? Then don't piss them off. Honestly, the chantry was absolutely idiotic and arrogant for thinking it would be a good idea to imprison and abuse so many powerful beings. Because, as we saw with Anders, the chantry eventually lost control, and the results were catastrophic. I've only seen the Carver stuff on YouTube, but really? He isn't that bad. He's whiny, angry...has an inferiority complex...but he loves Hawke underneath it all. If you want to headcanon that he hates his sibling, then that's fine. But that isn't Bioware's Carver, ok? |
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Post by noname55rr on Aug 25, 2016 16:32:28 GMT
@ dragontartare - It IS BioWare Carver. If they thought that's the GREATEST portrayal of "loving grumpy brother" they seriously needs to stop. Like really, you seen video and that's it ? Try to play as patient sibling who tries to help him. Now you will see "real" loving brother ... oh wait. Only not. On this case Carver always ends up as someone who seem to only hate you for no reason. So it IS BioWare Carver since there is none else Carver. In silence suffering let me see ... ever heard about depression ? Yup. Mostly SILENT suffering, trauma again mostly in silence, any suffering from males ? usually quiet since they are SUPPOSE to be NOT SOFT - just like in Thedas Templars are expected to be ! Mages scream and that's good because they need to voice out their injustice served by none other than populations of Thedas and Chantry. But Templars ? Templar will start to complain and you already have someone ready to silence them. Like those scared recruits back at DA II. They are silenced either by common people, by their own Order members or by (yup) Chantry. Of course they choose or ... are PROMISED since birth. Look it up on Travelyan history of how nobility behaves to their children if they think they may have them too much. They are PROMISED to Templar Order. It's not their choice. I am usually not sure about choices for most of Templars. Some wanted, some were promised. I really dare you tell "suffering in silence" is pointless to anybody who has depression or trauma. You did this, the depressed person will start to think about how useless they are since they start to bother you with their SILENCE. As for Anders he is triggered to be BLIND to any other injustice than this one to mages, just look at his foolish approval of selling Fenris to Denarius. He HATES anybody who does not approve very blindly his idea of "justice'. He hates Fenris, Aveline, Meredith ... just anybody who think that only freeing mages does not solve too many problems. And we already saw where this solution of Anders and Chantry leads from Inquisition. Catilina - You are very funny, you honestly started this topic of love to Fenris and yet you are blind to see any of his points in game regarding magic in general. I tried very hard to explain things to you from mine point and all you did was useless attacks and ridicule. I tried very hard to not throw something insulting but just explain things - like this about blackmail of Thrask. And all you do is this. Fine, so be it. It's not Chantry propaganda which I believe in. It's reality. Reality of series, I cannot like Anders be PICKY of what I consider "justice". I hate the Chantry. I do not believe in any of their things. I hate Chantry with passion from Origins. Yet Circles should be - as academies not damn prisons. And yes mages DO REQUIRE special training thanks to their abilities. If they don't have they end up like Connor or Olivia. You need only clear thinking and neutral point of view to see that overall Dragon Age mages are DANGEROUS to everyone inclueding themselves. So they need training in their abilities. And yes since we have magic there should be special force in society which can FIGHT against magical things - namely the Templars. I guess you argued a lot with Cassandra in Inquisition. Since basically it also her view as what Templars and Circles should be. Not to mention I did NOT mentioned that you need Templars IN Circles guarding them. All I stated was that Thedas NEEDS Templars as anti-magical forces. Stationating at some points forces to fight magical dangers. They should not be tied to Chantry either. Jowan ? I always want to set this fool free. I never kill him. I don't have much on Jowan since he must be tied to Amell/Surana origin. I tried to help such Niall or those trapped in Fade during Circle quest but they are beyond my help. I see mages as people, dangerous and more powerfull than others but people. Circle as academy is sad neccessity. Circle as prison (and from what I know not all Circles treats mages like prisoners) is useless abusage which should be taken down. No wonder you had rivalmance if you can think only that way. That's the easiest way to be rivals with Fenris. This block-head of Justice view. I'm done speaking to you since all you want to do is insulting without understanding of mine point. I love Fenris and I generally see his point of view in DA series. In case of DA II it's important to find balance in view between Anders and Fenris. I found one, you clearly don't. |
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) so for me this stupid explanation is that obvious.
