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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 20, 2020 19:39:27 GMT
Not quite. The Nexus is by far the largest "vessel" sent to Andromeda, expected to be 15.47 km long and 5.3 km in diameter when completed. The Citadel is 44.7 km long, and 12.8 km in diameter when opened, with a population of 13.2M. So, yeah, the Nexus is massive yet only ~ 1/3 the size of the Citadel. Ark Hyperion is ~ 1.5 km long and was designed to transport 20K colonists in cryopods. Dreadnoughts are typically ~ 1 km long, so the Arks may be somewhat larger than a typical dreadnought. (The Destiny Ascension is said to be 4x the size of the largest human ships with a crew of 10K.)
It was a significant undertaking, to be sure - but then so was the Lazarus project (which supposedly exhausted Cerberus' budget, yet they continued to build facilities, fleets, and bring an endless supply of researchers and troops online). The plot demands, I guess.
Nothing I said was incorrect and trying to "um actually" me doesn't undermine or detract from anything I said. The Nexus is nearly Citadel size. It is larger then any other ship ever created in the Milky way by organic races in this cycle. The Arks are massive ships that are only smaller then the Destiny Ascension that was literally the largest and one of a kind with no others even close to it ship. Well there is the Geth Dreadnought which is 30% larger than an Alliance Dreadnought so about the size of an Ark. Then there are the Quarian live ships which are bigger than the the Arks and the Destiny Ascension
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 20, 2020 19:39:52 GMT
Nothing I said was incorrect and trying to "um actually" me doesn't undermine or detract from anything I said. The Nexus is nearly Citadel size. It is larger then any other ship ever created in the Milky way by organic races in this cycle. The Arks are massive ships that are only smaller then the Destiny Ascension that was literally the largest and one of a kind with no others even close to it ship.
And the people that have an issue with the Lazarus project isn't the budget. It is the fact they literally reversed death despite Shepard asphyxiating, reentering orbit, impacting the ground at terminal velocity in a snowy methane air filled planet and left out to the elements for weeks before recovery. Shepard was beyond any recovery ability of anything short of literal divine godly intervention.
It is not possible for the Nexus to be 1/3 the size of the Citadel and still be said to be "Citadel-sized." I would also argue that since we see another ship similar to the Destiny Ascension during the final battle for Earth in ME3 regardless of whether or not we allowed the Destiny Ascension to be destroyed in ME1, it was clearly not "one of a kind." If it was, then it only took the Asari a couple of years to replace it... possibly illustrating just how quickly ships can be built in the MEU. What you is is an Asari Crusier that sits at 0.6KM in lenght. Smaller then an Alliance Dreadnought.
Quite literally the Nexus is the largest ship/mobile space station created. Beaten only by the Heretics who had decades of constant construction to build. Due to their synthetic nature they could build 24/7. And Omega which is a massive asteroid that attracted dozens of large companies and hundreds of private individuals and thousands of pirates and other undesirables and has been build and expanded on for hundreds of years.
And the Asari ship you see is either a bug showing the DA or it is the Asari Cruiser that is measured at 0.6km in length and of similar design like all Asari ships are.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2020 20:21:22 GMT
It is not possible for the Nexus to be 1/3 the size of the Citadel and still be said to be "Citadel-sized." I would also argue that since we see another ship similar to the Destiny Ascension during the final battle for Earth in ME3 regardless of whether or not we allowed the Destiny Ascension to be destroyed in ME1, it was clearly not "one of a kind." If it was, then it only took the Asari a couple of years to replace it... possibly illustrating just how quickly ships can be built in the MEU. What you is is an Asari Crusier that sits at 0.6KM in lenght. Smaller then an Alliance Dreadnought.
Quite literally the Nexus is the largest ship/mobile space station created. Beaten only by the Heretics who had decades of constant construction to build. Due to their synthetic nature they could build 24/7. And Omega which is a massive asteroid that attracted dozens of large companies and hundreds of private individuals and thousands of pirates and other undesirables and has been build and expanded on for hundreds of years.
And the Asari ship you see is either a bug showing the DA or it is the Asari Cruiser that is measured at 0.6km in length and of similar design like all Asari ships are.
The same Asari ship is shown regardless of whether or not Shepard saves the DA or lets it be destroyed. It is not identified as being an Asari cruiser and is clearly put into the mix to show the player, if the saved the DA, that the DA is along for the battle. You're assuming it's a bug if another ship identical to it is there if the DA is destroyed... but it is possible that it is intentionally there and the devs message is that, although huge, it only took the Asari two years to replace it.
The Nexus is not as big as the Ctiadel. It's measurements make it 1/3 the size of the Citadel. I don't care that it is the largest ship made to to that point. It is still not "Citadel-size." It doesn't support your argument. The whole galactic economy is so large that TIM's investment in Shepard is small potatoes. There a trillions of people doing a trillion different economic activites using a whole galaxy worth of resources. It is totally conceivable that the private consortium could build a ship the size of the Nexus under those circumstances. Stop thinking so colloquially.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 20, 2020 21:03:08 GMT
What you is is an Asari Crusier that sits at 0.6KM in lenght. Smaller then an Alliance Dreadnought.
Quite literally the Nexus is the largest ship/mobile space station created. Beaten only by the Heretics who had decades of constant construction to build. Due to their synthetic nature they could build 24/7. And Omega which is a massive asteroid that attracted dozens of large companies and hundreds of private individuals and thousands of pirates and other undesirables and has been build and expanded on for hundreds of years.
And the Asari ship you see is either a bug showing the DA or it is the Asari Cruiser that is measured at 0.6km in length and of similar design like all Asari ships are.
The same Asari ship is shown regardless of whether or not Shepard saves the DA or lets it be destroyed. It is not identified as being an Asari cruiser and is clearly put into the mix to show the player, if the saved the DA, that the DA is along for the battle. You're assuming it's a bug if another ship identical to it is there if the DA is destroyed... but it is possible that it is intentionally there and the devs message is that, although huge, it only took the Asari two years to replace it.
The Nexus is not as big as the Ctiadel. It's measurements make it 1/3 the size of the Citadel. I don't care that it is the largest ship made to to that point. It is still not "Citadel-size." It doesn't support your argument. The whole galactic economy is so large that TIM's investment in Shepard is small potatoes. There a trillions of people doing a trillion different economic activites using a whole galaxy worth of resources. It is totally conceivable that the private consortium could build a ship the size of the Nexus under those circumstances. Stop thinking so colloquially.
Then it isn't the DA and is just a random Asari Cruiser or Dreadnought.
So with the size bit you are just being pedantic is that it? It is literally the largest space station build in a handful of years capable of traveling across the interstellar void. And because it isn't the exact same size you get caught up on this detail?
You are assuming that every economy was thrown into the mix. And you would have to assume at least half the galaxy or at least Council Aligned races and people in that area agreed to donate some money. But the game clearly states that the benefactor was the primary donor meaning they magicked up billions of credits. And your income argument is undermined by the argument in ME1 about the cost of building the SR-1 and how it could have instead build dozens of fighters in the place of one ship. This means even the Alliance getting billion or even trillions in taxes had to make hard financial decisions about building what.
And that isn't taking into account the tech cost. Quantum computers are going to be far far far more expensive then a more standard IV system. Stasis pods were almost unknown in game besides as something the Protheans created. Yet they created them to last for hundreds of years. Cutting edge just invented drive cores that operate on a fraction of fuel as other ships. And given there is no record of this happening in ME1 and this all has to have happened between the time Sovereign attacks the Citadel and Shepard is revived.
2176 CE The Andromeda Initiative, a privately-funded multi-species endeavor created to explore and colonize the Andromeda Galaxy, is founded.
2184 CE The Eden Prime War comes to a close. Although most geth forces in Citadel space were destroyed in the Battle of the Citadel, holdouts yet remain. The Alliance Navy reduces its patrols, relying instead on civilian ships to report any geth activity. Raids are carried out against identified geth outposts, but the conflict is essentially over. July 25: The Andromeda Initiative orientation briefing is shown to prospective candidates.
2185 CE The Andromeda Initiative begins its journey to the Andromeda galaxy, with the first wave, made up of the Nexus, Ark Hyperion, Ark Leusinia, Ark Natanus, and Ark Paarchero, launching into dark space. A second wave comprised of Ark Keelah Si'yah is expected to launch not long after.
Literally within a year was all the new tech created, bought, copied or stolen and the Arks and Nexus and all supporting vehicles like the Tempest were build and shipped off to Andromeda.
Considering all of the literal game changing tech that Andromeda has it would all have to be extremely recent tech developments which would compress the build time even more.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 20, 2020 23:15:04 GMT
This I dislike intensely. You throw out the biggest, baddest threat POSSIBLE, something that has been routinely destroying nearly all life for a billion years and then say, nope, there's something bigger? That's just trying to top the Reapers and that's pointless. I think MEA happened not because of RGB (well, not entirely) but because they wanted to move away from having to create an even bigger threat. If we go back to the MW, then it has to be different. Maybe rebuilding civilization or learning what was on the other side of those sealed relays. That allows access to new races and maybe new threats. Not greater threats just different. Wasn't that the implied ending of Men in Black though? There is always the possibility of something bigger. I guess but that's what's happening in comics these days. Incredibly boring. If you always think there's something bigger around the corner can you really take it serious?
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 20, 2020 23:17:45 GMT
Not anymore, most likely. If all Reaper tech is destroyed, which means killing the Geth and EDI, the Keepers, which were even more Reaper tech, they'd be fucked. It definitely does not exist, as per the explanations Bioware gives to its own endings. Who said the Keepers were in any way Reaper tech? They're bio-engineered, but I doubt moreso than the Collectors. They're still living beings. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because I don't find your thoughts on the subject compelling.
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Post by Polka Dot on Feb 21, 2020 0:45:33 GMT
So with the size bit you are just being pedantic is that it? It is literally the largest space station build in a handful of years capable of traveling across the interstellar void. And because it isn't the exact same size you get caught up on this detail? 'Twas I who originally raised this: But even beyond that just the concept of the galaxy building massive near Citadel size ships to be sent to another galaxy in the middle of ME2. All raised by private individuals representing more credits and resources spent then most race's entire military would spend in a year. partly because of your attempt at an apples/oranges comparison, but mostly because you made it plural. What you said above is kind of like comparing a golf cart and half a dozen matchbox cars to some number of boxcars. Or saying that a Chihuahua is German Shepard sized. I don't mean to be pedantic, but it's hard to take your arguments seriously when you try to support them with faulty info. Here's another example: There is a bit in ME1 where Rear Admiral Mikhailovich complains about the SR1's over-engineering and claims that for its cost, they could have had a heavy cruiser (instead of a frigate). I don't recall anyone mentioning the cost of acquiring dozens of fighters, but if I'm missing something, kindly point it out. Unless we're switching calendars/time scales here, that looks like 9 years to me.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 1:27:36 GMT
Wasn't that the implied ending of Men in Black though? There is always the possibility of something bigger. I guess but that's what's happening in comics these days. Incredibly boring. If you always think there's something bigger around the corner can you really take it serious? Why would recognizing how insignificant we are within the vastness of our universe prevent me from taking things seriously? I would be greatly saddened if it turns out that there is nothing greater than us out there. I thought the MIB ending put an interesting twist in presenting that eternal philosophical question.
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Post by sassafrassa on Feb 21, 2020 2:43:28 GMT
The point is what you said. Bioware handled the situation terribly and then said "Andromeda was unfairly criticized". If they'd, instead, done something that the fans wanted, given them something good, The developers shouldn't care what the fans want specifically. Fans aren't always thinking about this stuff very seriously and often they don't even know what they want. If George had asked the fans for A Son of Ice and Fire if they wanted the Red Wedding to happen I bet the fans would have said no. Yet the story is better for it. So, in the sense that we should cater to the fans by giving them quality content... that I totally agree with. We should always tell good stories and express them through good games. I agree that Walters, Hudson, and probably EA, screwed this up for ME3. Andromeda failed less-so from a the studio or developer not caring, and more from the team creating it having too much to do and not enough experience. I would say that ME3 is more of a betrayal rooted in incompetence where as Andromeda is more of a tragedy rooted in naivety. Mass Effect is as prevalent, technologically, after an ending that destroys Reaper Tech, i.e. Mass Effect tech, as air in space. No, it isn't. Material things have been destroyed. The ideas are still there. The physical principles are still there. Was my "Arch" example too complex for you? Tell me, in your own words, what is technology? Would it be hard to rebuild mass relays? Yes it would. I imagine it would take centuries, longer even, to come anywhere close to the state the galaxy was in before the Reapers invaded. If it can be done, someone will do it. There is lots of incentive. Even if all knowledge of Mass Relays was lost, someone would, at some point, rediscover the technology. Reaper Tech is not magic and magic did not suddenly vanish from the Mass Effect universe. It's not even really fair to call it "Reaper tech" any more than an Atomic bomb is "American Tech". The Reapers discovered it first, they exploited it first, but it was a possibility that was always waiting there to be stumbled upon by inquisitive minds.
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Post by sassafrassa on Feb 21, 2020 3:02:15 GMT
It is very creatively compelling. If you are going to say that then you need to explain why. What is creatively compelling about it? Profits is not creative inspiration. It might be a motive, but it is not the creativity itself. When I said that it was NOT creatively compelling I explained why I thought that way by explaining how Shepard's story has been concluded. I did mention one possibility that could be explored, but cautioned that the best opportunity to do so had come and gone. Tell me why you think another Shepard story is a good creative idea. Don't mention money. That's the issue being discussed here. Which is automatically invalidated by the fact that your games need to net profit in the tenths... I said that profit was a practical necessity. You are really exasperating my patience here. Andromeda did not fail because it lacked Shepard. ME3 had Shepard, and it was arguably even more controversial. Shepard is not some magic panacea that makes a game good. Now unimaginative board executives might decide that because Shepard wasn't in Andromeda and Andromeda was a failure that this means Shepard must be the next game to avoid a failure. This is superstitious thinking. Andromeda failed because it was buggy, it didn't tell a good story, and it didn't have strong enough characters. If you want to argue that bringing Shepard back would be the safest option, then that's fine. Say so. If you want to argue that bringing Shepard back is what the people in charge are most likely to do, then fine, say so. However if you are going to argue that bringing Shepard back is the most creative direction to go... then explain why. If you just want Shepard back because you like Shepard then that's fine too, but don't argue with me about it since you aren't actually arguing anything substantive beyond what personally appeals to you. As do all new IPs. And ME1 sold less than a million copies on release. We built it up to the success it was, by word of mouth and our investment into the franchise. ME2 sold ~3.5 times that, because of us. And ME3 beat that by another million on release. ...and your point is what? Do you know why Mass Effect 1 was successful despite being a new IP that nobody had heard of? It told a good story. It had good characters. People got hooked because they got attached to the story and characters, so they came back for ME2 and so did lots of NEW people. Then even more NEW people came in for ME3. As far as NEW people are concerned Shepard is a NEW character in that first game they are playing. Point is, a new protagonist is always an option. Especially after nearly a decade since the appearance of the old one. A new Mass Effect game will want to bring in more new fans than ever before. Those fans will relate best to a NEW character since they'll have more in common with that protagonist. So now you have a materialistic and profit-driven reason not to bring Shepard back. No, I pitched an idea for you. I also, as I state above, pointed out that the time to tell this story has come and gone. So if you are going to tell it now, some ten years later, you are already at a disadvantage. Maybe it will work. Fine, I'm willing to imagine this possible future too, I'm willing and able to imagine lots of things, but it is not and probably never will be my preferred one. Make it AU or a continuation of a branching timeline, No, that's terrible. If you are going to go that route you are better off just doing a total reboot. The point is that the ending limit is arbitrary. No, it isn't. They wanted to tell a specific story and they told that story. That is not arbitrariness.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 21, 2020 3:29:25 GMT
I guess but that's what's happening in comics these days. Incredibly boring. If you always think there's something bigger around the corner can you really take it serious? Why would recognizing how insignificant we are within the vastness of our universe prevent me from taking things seriously? I would be greatly saddened if it turns out that there is nothing greater than us out there. I thought the MIB ending put an interesting twist in presenting that eternal philosophical question. I mean from our perspective. It'll just be another: "Well, my char beat the next 'biggest threat ever'. What's next?" Boring.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 3:43:02 GMT
He must think that Shepard's story is like The Simpsons or Coronation Street, which have been going on for 30-60 yeats. One game per season in Mass Effect's case. I think if it went on for that long, you'd eventually get bored of it or Bioware would run out of material. I mean, you put an end to the Reapers, the main antagonist, what more is there to tell? What happens to the galaxy afterwards? The EC has that covered. It essentially serves as an epilogue. What happens after they rebuild and 1000s of years pass? Who knows. That is left unsaid, because they can't tell the story until the universe ends. At some point, the fans will have to use their imagination to decide what happens once the story ends.
Like anything, everything has an end, and even if you managed to have Shepard on for 30 games, eventually Jennifer Hale or Mark Meer aren't going to be around anymore. They're probably going to be retired in another 10-15 years, and they won't be able or williing to do this indefinitely, because some people are just that attached to a fictional character. Almost obsessively even.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2020 3:46:46 GMT
I guess but that's what's happening in comics these days. Incredibly boring. If you always think there's something bigger around the corner can you really take it serious? Why would recognizing how insignificant we are within the vastness of our universe prevent me from taking things seriously? I would be greatly saddened if it turns out that there is nothing greater than us out there. I thought the MIB ending put an interesting twist in presenting that eternal philosophical question. Love that scene.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 13:32:24 GMT
Any ending you come up with would only be fan fiction, never canon. What if it gets inside a game? What do you mean? Was Mass Effect supposed to end like a war story, or like ROTJ? I mean that the way ME3 ended was obviously a mistake. Even Mac admitted it. If you actually told Bioware what to do, then they would have rewritten the ending. Well, they kinda did, but keeping the original ones in faith. They took my suggestion as to the how. To the T. Yes, but that's just an opinion. Just an opinion? TFA BOX OFFICE Worldwide $2,068,223,624 TLJ BOX OFFICE Worldwide $1,332,539,889 TROS BOX OFFICE Worldwide $1,069,433,999 How about facts? People didn't return for TLJ and had checked out by TRoS. Fact. If the ending of the "Skywalker Saga" is only worth $1 billion US, when Endgame made $2.8 billion dollars, that is a failure. Fact. If the people complaining knew anything about how software purchases work. Once you open the box or install the game digitally after agreeing to the EULA, all bets are off. Now if there was a broken disc, or you tried to start the game and it wouldn't run, that's another issue. They would honor that. EULA does not supersede national or international law. There are many cases, Warcraft 3 Reforged had its EULA violating Australian law, most recently, with its refund policy. EULA means absolutely nothing and is only there to cover the publisher's/developer's back on some of the most basic shit around. For anything that is covered by legislation, devs and publishers are fucked. As evident by Belgium's stance on lootboxes, a publisher's interpretation of law means less than nothing on such issues. I had a look at a top selling games list, and there was only about 35 games out of the thousands of games ever made that sold over 20 million copies. I've seen many Nintendo games on that list. So it sounds like those who sell over 20 million are the 1 percent And you don't understand how that is a problem for Bioware, that it isn't in that list, or even close to being in that list? Hell, name me one Bioware game that broke 10 million copies sold.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 13:34:24 GMT
Enlighten me, what is it that I don't get? EA doesn't really care about how they make money. They will fire, shut down and swindle every penny they can. The point is to sounds as EA as possible. Because that's what we're dealing with.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:05:00 GMT
So you can prove the sales was because of ME3? Not because the game was launched with a lot of bugs and other issues that would detract from people wanting to buy it? Not the fact that it was a mediocre game at best who has a story that isn't nearly as interesting previous titles? Trying to point to sales as your smoking gun to say that it was because of ME3 is just fucking asinine given the multitude of factors that effect game sales. A lot of games start low in sales and pick up later, due to quality, critical reception and word of mouth. Dragon Age: Origins, for example, did exactly that. But it makes sense for Origins to have a slow start, mainly because of its genre and the fact that it was a brand new IP. Dragon Age 2 had a strong start, but sales fell of a cliff, starting week 2. Dragon Age: Inquisition enjoyed its best launch, for any Bioware game ever due to a multitude of factors, such as being the first big name RPG in the current console gen cycle, launched with literally no competition and no standard to be compared to. Even so, sales for Inquisition weren't that impressive going forward, because it wasn't a good game. Andromeda, however, enjoyed neither a good launch, which means bad reception pre-release and equal bad reception post release. Obviously, pre-release, the game wasn't even out, so no verdict on its quality could be made. Therefore, something else must have damaged Andromeda's launch, before it released. I can tell you that it most definitely was due to brand damage, but you will disagree, just because nobody came out and said "we damaged our brand". Which is something nobody in their right mind does. At best, you get a statement like " we can't believe we are the bad guys". MEA's sales were less because it just isn't a good game. And this isn't early 2000's anymore. A mediocre game with shitty bugs will have it's reputation spread quickly though social media. Which will turn people off the game. The game company almost literally abandoning it after launch also affects player's trust in the game. Particularly given that Mass Effect has always had at least 1 or 2 DLC that added to the game world and plot. And they set up said DLC in the game with the Quarian Ark contact and then did nothing with it but write a book. Yeah. I never said this isn't also true. The rise of skywalker made so much less money because it was a shit movie But you didn't know that, before it opened. I mean, you kinda did, if you believed or had heard of the leaks, but I can't see that many people being in the know. So, at least, 1st weekend box office should be equally high to TLJ, at the very least, higher overall, as the conclusion of the "Skywalker Saga". From there, it would have tanked, because it was a shit movie, as TLJ did, but it would have made about a hundred million dollars more. Andromeda suffered from being a medicore game that launched with bugs that didn't make it worth money and was very publically abandoned by the game developer shortly after release. Rise of Skywalker was a shitty movie that shows the issue of having two directors with two different ideas and no clearly cut story set out. Hence the whole undoing Vader's redemption and rendering Snoke even more fucking pointless and the M Night level stupid twist on Rey's parentage was just fucking stupid. I am not refuting any of that. I'm just saying, the previous entries, added more damage to that, in a financial aspect, by damaging the brand.
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:07:49 GMT
I vaguely recall seeing some DA (?) something or other on facebook years ago Are you talking about the one that was released alongside DA:O? I remember that, I use to play it, but now we also have Heroes of Dragon Age
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:22:00 GMT
They're bio-engineered, but I doubt moreso than the Collectors The collectors would also have to be dead.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 14:39:28 GMT
Tell me, in your own words, what is technology? That is irrelevant. The point is Mac Walter's interpretation of the endings and Biowre's insistence to adhere to that. If the galaxy is supposed to be free of the Reaper evolutionary path, which is Mac's vision, which is why we had the Citadel and the Relays destroyed, going back and remaking them is an automatic invalidation of Bioware's "artistic integrity". You can't go back to them, you have to develop new tech, that isn't Reaper related. I do understand that arches, just as fire, are equally considered "technology", as is the wheel. Some technologies are perfect and can't be perfected further. Maybe one day we won't have use for them, but for most of them, it is currently unlikely and have persisted for thousands of years. But Bioware can't, thematically and realistically, go back to Reaper tech, without inadvertently invalidating their own argument. At which point they expose themselves as hypocrites and liars, while also in no way addressing the lingering problem of ME3's endings. So it all boils down to Bioware wanting to be dicks to their own community, since the start of it all. That's a nice shitstorm in the brewing, if they go down that route.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 14:41:03 GMT
Why would recognizing how insignificant we are within the vastness of our universe prevent me from taking things seriously? I would be greatly saddened if it turns out that there is nothing greater than us out there. I thought the MIB ending put an interesting twist in presenting that eternal philosophical question. I mean from our perspective. It'll just be another: "Well, my char beat the next 'biggest threat ever'. What's next?" Boring. Any less boring than "My character, who already beat the biggest threat ever" is now going on to beat a smaller threat. Maybe we should have Shepard retire to a garbage truck... clearing away the rubble left in London by the Reaper War. That would make for a great sci-fi exploration game (sarcasm).
I'd rather move out into the universe as a whole and discover that Shepard's story was connected to something more. The lure of Leviathan is that it could be part of that interconnected "something more" in the Milky Way. I'm just connecting another galaxy into that mix Tying the two stories together. Are the species known as the Jaardan in Andromeda the same species as Leviathan? I'm more curious to find that out than to resurrect Shepard out of the rubble just to see if he/she can shoot more Cerberus mooks on Omega.
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Post by burningcherry on Feb 21, 2020 14:54:38 GMT
Some technologies are perfect Define.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 15:52:20 GMT
If you are going to say that then you need to explain why. What is creatively compelling about it? Profits is not creative inspiration. It might be a motive, but it is not the creativity itself. When I said that it was NOT creatively compelling I explained why I thought that way by explaining how Shepard's story has been concluded. I did mention one possibility that could be explored, but cautioned that the best opportunity to do so had come and gone. Tell me why you think another Shepard story is a good creative idea. Don't mention money. That's the issue being discussed here. I think we already had a very creative and compelling story to tell. Remember the one I tossed with the secluded clusters and local power struggles, while the leviathans scheme in the background to reestablish themselves as galactic rulers? And I'm, apparently, just some random guy on the internet who gave you that scenario in a moments notice. Imagine how more creative I could get, if I was part of the Bioware writing team, or the how more creative the Bioware writing team would be, presented with such a scenario to work with. Also, the "colonization" aspect of Andromeda was botched, on the mere fact that we are in [CURRENT YEAR] and having our "heroes" committing colonial acts, or Inquisitorial acts, as per Dragon Age: Inquisition, is entirely out of the question, meaning that creative endeavor is guaranteed to be stunted. And the only other idea I had that was acceptable by this forum's Andromeda loving community, was fighting the Kett ...only this time, again. It could get really creative in trying to make that scenario work, with no twists and no tension, just like the original Andromeda, but all I can see it as is a failed endeavor. The post destroy ending Milky Way is a far more challenging, interesting and compelling setting than what Andromeda could possibly come up with. Not without soft rebooting it a second time. And we also have Mac Walters on record saying Andromeda was always meant to be a "standalone" thing, so no sequels. And while that could change, as anything can change, like Mass Effect getting thawed out of it ice, Andromeda was bad. While you could try being "creative" to fix it, it is no more "creative" than dodging the unemployment line; it's an equal act of desperation. Which is the entire point of "thawing" Mass Effect. It's an act of desperation and hoping to capitalize on nostalgia to keep them afloat. If it was really about creativity, they'd make a new IP, but I doubt EA would fund that, after Anthem and since Anthem 2.0 is in the works, it is doubtful they'd announce an Anthem II before that was released and they needed a game after Dragon Age: Dread Wolf Rises. Every other idea is more creatively bankrupt. Andromeda did not fail because it lacked Shepard. ME3 had Shepard, and it was arguably even more controversial False equivalence. It wasn't Shepard's existence that made ME3 controversial, no more than his absence made Andromeda bad. The point is damage and how can you reel people back, at this point. If you disagree with the notion of brand damage and its effects, take that up with Todd Howard, first. On a similar note, to brand damage, the Terminator franchise suffered from it. Terminator: Genisys damaged the brand, similar to ME3 and Dark Fate put it on ice, similar to Andromeda. Also, Star Wars: The Last Jedi damaged the brand and The Rise of Skywalker put the franchise on hiatus. Andromeda failed because it was buggy, it didn't tell a good story, and it didn't have strong enough characters. And you know what has a good story potential with established strong characters, that will reel people in a heartbeat? Post destroy Milk Way. Point is, a new protagonist is always an option. Yes, that is true. But do you believe that people have faith in Bioware, after the damage of Andromeda and Anthem to introduce good new protagonists and supporting characters? I can't seem to find any. And if people here want a new protagonist, then why do they ask for Ryder? The next Mass Effect is so far away, that returning to Ryder is about as far away as Shepard. It's been 3 years already and the most optimistic estimate would not put it before late 2024. Seven years to return to a protagonist that was majorly rejected. Or we can reboot further, alienate more fans, shrink more and since we've established by now that new players won't engage Bioware games, at least not enough to compensate for rising budgets and EA's expectation, we doom the studio as well. No, I pitched an idea for you. I also, as I state above, pointed out that the time to tell this story has come and gone. So if you are going to tell it now, some ten years later, you are already at a disadvantage No, you're not at a disadvantage. Because media will talk about the return of Shepard, the franchise's iconic hero and old disgruntled fans will talk about it and do a 180, becoming positive again, headlines will be made about "bioware listened to fans" and certain media will paint the "Bioware bends the knee to entitled, toxic gamers" which will be good press and that will ensure large pre-order sales. And it is good because that is free PR and generates good will from consumers. Look at how many people feel ripped off by Bioware with Anthem and have sworn them off, how they would not be willing to give Bioware another dime, even for a fixed Anthem. You need that good will and positive media exposure. No, that's terrible. If you are going to go that route you are better off just doing a total reboot. Post destroy Milky Way as a reboot? No, it isn't. They wanted to tell a specific story and they told that story. That is not arbitrariness. But everything that happens, in random planets they visit in the meantime, with no effect on the overall plot of Q's trial and the movies later disprove that. You could skip all the inbetweens and just have the trial. You don't even need the trial, just do the inbeteween episodes of trekking and you're still good. The trial is a neat concept, but as a limit, it is self-imposed. There is no rule stating TNG should end with the trial. As a writer, you are free to do whatever you want with it. The end of the trial could be the death of the final living human being and its ascension to the status of Q, at which point Q would declare the trial over. It can be anything and happen at any time. It's the showrunners of the show at that time, which ended it as such and at no point was the use of the TNG cast and crew limited to that show. Making the trial as an "ending" entirely arbitrary.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 15:53:21 GMT
Some technologies are perfect Define. Wheel.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2020 15:57:41 GMT
Humans can’t create a perfect circle therefore there is no such thing as a perfect wheel.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Feb 21, 2020 15:58:51 GMT
Humans can’t create a perfect circle therefore there is no such thing as a perfect wheel.
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