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Post by sassafrassa on Feb 21, 2020 17:35:24 GMT
I think we already had a very creative and compelling story to tell. Remember the one I tossed with the secluded clusters and local power struggles, while the leviathans scheme in the background to reestablish themselves as galactic rulers? [...] The post destroy ending Milky Way is a far more challenging, interesting and compelling setting than what Andromeda could possibly come up with. Yeah, agreed. However if you want your protagonist to visit a large portion of the galaxy then you need to set this far enough in the future that at least some of the Mass Relays have been restored. Logically, that would take decades or centuries to do. So that means Shepard probably can't be the protagonist. So invent a new one. But do you believe that people have faith in Bioware, after the damage of Andromeda and Anthem to introduce good new protagonists and supporting characters? This is not a relevant question to this thread topic. The root here is "do you want Shepard back for one final game? Not, "Will Shepard be back for one final game?" Post destroy Milky Way as a reboot? That would be a sequel, not a reboot.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 21, 2020 18:03:46 GMT
They could. But you'd need a strong IP to compete with all the others. Most mobile gachas tend to reach an abrupt end. For every CoD mobile, there are 100 forgotten IPs. So for a Mass Effect one to work, you'd need Mass Effect to be popular again. And people just aren't that into it, right now. Eventually they might, but even so, that won't stop them from making console and PC Mass Effect games. Besides, we've already had a couple of mobile Mass Effect games. They didn't catch on that well, so far. I don't know of any particular reason why they'd need to try to make mobile games from their existing IPs. Small scale mobile games could be fertile ground to put their backlog of unused concepts and prototypes to use. It'd give their creatives the opportunity see some of their favorite ideas come to fruition, even if it wasn't in a major AAA title, and they could slap different branding on them. Whether it results in a small but steady revenue stream or some new hit IPs, the investment would be much smaller than the kind of AAA titles they usually make. And that revenue could provide enough funding to put the creative people - instead of the bean counters - in charge of their major IPs again. Could be worth a try. There are quite a few BioWare games on mobile including ports of their older games. There is a Flash game that was released ages ago with Dragon Age: Origins, with the release of Dragon Age II there was a Facebook game that pretty much a generic social media game with a Dragon Age skin it was also moved to be a standalone game a year or so later, and with Inquisition there was another standard by the numbers mobile game released called Heroes of Dragon Age. Mass Effect has had two mobile games released, but I think they weren't updated much after their initial releases so are at least with Google incompatible with newer hardware. After that there are mobile releases of Baldur's Gate, Knights of the Old Republic, and Jade Empire.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 21, 2020 18:37:22 GMT
So you can prove the sales was because of ME3? Not because the game was launched with a lot of bugs and other issues that would detract from people wanting to buy it? Not the fact that it was a mediocre game at best who has a story that isn't nearly as interesting previous titles? Trying to point to sales as your smoking gun to say that it was because of ME3 is just fucking asinine given the multitude of factors that effect game sales. A lot of games start low in sales and pick up later, due to quality, critical reception and word of mouth. Dragon Age: Origins, for example, did exactly that. But it makes sense for Origins to have a slow start, mainly because of its genre and the fact that it was a brand new IP. Dragon Age 2 had a strong start, but sales fell of a cliff, starting week 2. Dragon Age: Inquisition enjoyed its best launch, for any Bioware game ever due to a multitude of factors, such as being the first big name RPG in the current console gen cycle, launched with literally no competition and no standard to be compared to. Even so, sales for Inquisition weren't that impressive going forward, because it wasn't a good game. Andromeda, however, enjoyed neither a good launch, which means bad reception pre-release and equal bad reception post release. Obviously, pre-release, the game wasn't even out, so no verdict on its quality could be made. Therefore, something else must have damaged Andromeda's launch, before it released. I can tell you that it most definitely was due to brand damage, but you will disagree, just because nobody came out and said "we damaged our brand". Which is something nobody in their right mind does. At best, you get a statement like " we can't believe we are the bad guys". MEA's sales were less because it just isn't a good game. And this isn't early 2000's anymore. A mediocre game with shitty bugs will have it's reputation spread quickly though social media. Which will turn people off the game. The game company almost literally abandoning it after launch also affects player's trust in the game. Particularly given that Mass Effect has always had at least 1 or 2 DLC that added to the game world and plot. And they set up said DLC in the game with the Quarian Ark contact and then did nothing with it but write a book. Yeah. I never said this isn't also true. The rise of skywalker made so much less money because it was a shit movie But you didn't know that, before it opened. I mean, you kinda did, if you believed or had heard of the leaks, but I can't see that many people being in the know. So, at least, 1st weekend box office should be equally high to TLJ, at the very least, higher overall, as the conclusion of the "Skywalker Saga". From there, it would have tanked, because it was a shit movie, as TLJ did, but it would have made about a hundred million dollars more. Andromeda suffered from being a medicore game that launched with bugs that didn't make it worth money and was very publically abandoned by the game developer shortly after release. Rise of Skywalker was a shitty movie that shows the issue of having two directors with two different ideas and no clearly cut story set out. Hence the whole undoing Vader's redemption and rendering Snoke even more fucking pointless and the M Night level stupid twist on Rey's parentage was just fucking stupid. I am not refuting any of that. I'm just saying, the previous entries, added more damage to that, in a financial aspect, by damaging the brand.
Yes the thing that damaged MEA's launch is less and less people falling for preorder bullshit due to abuse from many games. An abuse that would be fully legitimized by the buggy state that MEA launched in. And particularly the bugs with the chat animations which are a major part of the game. Issues like this are major and spread quickly. thus why players even to this day will ask if Andromeda is still buggy and worth it when buying it for 8 dollars. The same with AC Unity were people will still ask if it is as buggy as they remember it being talked about even though Ubi did fix it. And at least with Unity Ubi turned around and gave the story DLC to players for free as compensation. Granted it was obviously a PR stunt to make themselves look good by pretending to be generous. But at least they did something.
What did BioWare due to compensate?
ME3 had nothing to do with this. The premise of the game was spotty from the first announcement. And I'm someone who enjoyed ME3's ending and I was hesitant to get it on launch because the entire premise of the game sounded stupid. Then at launch I saw all the issues people were complaining about so I didn't buy it and the story wasn't very good. Then I saw how BioWare abandoned the title only a few months after launch and then that branch of BioWare was dissolved by EA. The result being I only finally got the game about 3 months ago or so because it was on sale for like 5 dollars in the PSN store. And $10 is about all that game is worth to me due to the poor pacing, boring story, massive plot conveniences that rival the OT combined and they destroyed the fun of the multiplayer game that ME3 introduced. While still retaining the loot box system.
The fact that the game was released under EA doesn't help given that EA is literally the single most evil video game company. Being directly responsible for the buying and eventual killing off of dozens of game companies after they stick their nose into the game development. Just look at the Sims 4. Literally all DLC costs almost much as the game it self.
Andromeda effected Andromeda nothing more nothing less.
Rise of Skywalkers very specifically showed that Palpatine lived. Which was a red flag for any Star Wars fan. And again this is the age of the internet and social media and nearly everyone has a phone that can connect to it. The shitty writing of it spread quickly. Much in the same way Avatar the Last Air Bender and Dragonball Evolution bombed in theaters because fans saw it and spread the word about how shitty and unfaithful the adaption was. This isn't the 1990's were most people only had word of mouth at best and only a few houses had internet and cared to join the few chat rooms to talk about the movie.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2020 18:38:10 GMT
Not anymore, most likely. If all Reaper tech is destroyed, which means killing the Geth and EDI, the Keepers, which were even more Reaper tech, they'd be fucked. It definitely does not exist, as per the explanations Bioware gives to its own endings. Who said the Keepers were in any way Reaper tech? They're bio-engineered, but I doubt moreso than the Collectors. They're still living beings. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because I don't find your thoughts on the subject compelling. I think the keepers' importance to the overall maintenance of something like the Citadel is a bit overstated. First and foremost, their primary purpose is to cultivate a complacent society that concerns itself very little with the inner workings of the thing they live on. After all, if the station was simply left unattended, people would dig too deeply and figure out what the station really was very quickly. If every single keeper, including beloved Keeper 20, up and keeled over and died, people would just pick up the slack and learn to maintain it themselves. Much of what stymies progress is the Citadel government's insistence on leaving these things alone to do whatever it is they do, and never attempt to study any of it further. Having the keepers die would create a newfound incentive to actually get these things to work themselves. The notion that this would simply not be possible is entirely laughable. If there's technology to be found, you can be sure we'd eventually figure out how it worked. We wouldn't stop until the heat death of the universe.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 21, 2020 18:41:21 GMT
So with the size bit you are just being pedantic is that it? It is literally the largest space station build in a handful of years capable of traveling across the interstellar void. And because it isn't the exact same size you get caught up on this detail? 'Twas I who originally raised this: But even beyond that just the concept of the galaxy building massive near Citadel size ships to be sent to another galaxy in the middle of ME2. All raised by private individuals representing more credits and resources spent then most race's entire military would spend in a year. partly because of your attempt at an apples/oranges comparison, but mostly because you made it plural. What you said above is kind of like comparing a golf cart and half a dozen matchbox cars to some number of boxcars. Or saying that a Chihuahua is German Shepard sized. I don't mean to be pedantic, but it's hard to take your arguments seriously when you try to support them with faulty info. Here's another example: There is a bit in ME1 where Rear Admiral Mikhailovich complains about the SR1's over-engineering and claims that for its cost, they could have had a heavy cruiser (instead of a frigate). I don't recall anyone mentioning the cost of acquiring dozens of fighters, but if I'm missing something, kindly point it out. Unless we're switching calendars/time scales here, that looks like 9 years to me. When all other ships are the size of an ant yes a chihuahua is nearly the size of a shepherd by comparison. But fine it isn't Citadel size. It is still 3x larger then the largest ships ever created. Packed with so much cutting technology that even the Salarians would be jealous of it.
As for the time line. They make it clear in game that Garson was out of money before they could finish the initiative. All of the tech developed for the Initiative are literally game changing travel tech. You also ignore the fact they only had a year between showing people orientations about the Initiative to launching.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 21, 2020 19:12:55 GMT
Do you have proof that ME3 negatively effected MEA? You mean in development or sales? Because in sales, yeah. It sold less than ME3, by a lot, putting it at ME2 levels of sales; a game that was released in the middle of a recession, with less consoles out and saw a limited first release, because it didn't come to PS3 until a long time later. So something definitely crippled initial product sales, before the critical reception. If you're asking how do I correlate that, it's how it's always correlated to product market penetration. You don't have a team of people going around asking "why didn't you buy Mass Effect: Andromeda" on social media, on the streets, at stores, on the phone, etc. Usually, when a brand doesn't do that well, you see the aftermath with the next product, not so much with the current one. For example, TLJ hurt Star Wars, but it made 1.6 billion dollars. TRoS barely made a billion. Surely, brand damage exists, there can be no doubt of that. That's a correlation, but not necessarily a causation. The prequel trilogy was arguably a big black mark on the franchise as well, yet The Force Awakens still pulled in big at the box office. Sure, the gap between the films is a good number of years, but just the same, those films are still memes even today, known for their inherent schlockiness throughout. I had already given up by Attack of the Clones. I could just as well argue that The Rise of Skywalker being a sloppily written trash fire assembled by a team that was helmed by an overrated hack would be a bigger contributing factor to its lower returns than whatever harm the previous movie did. I feel like there's some cases where certain brands can withstand a few stinkers before it starts to see any real losses, Star Wars being among them. If the film was genuinely good and cleverly written, it probably would have gained enough traction to come out on top, despite TLJ's massive writing botches. While Mass Effect is not nearly on the level of Star Wars, I believe it too could withstand the effects of ME3 when handled properly. That its critical and audience reception was either frigid to tepid at best doesn't really speak to the effect the previous game has so much as the latest effort. It had the parts to be a much better game, but troubled production and a clear lack of vision that led to such a narrow window for the team to work with made that less likely.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2020 19:13:39 GMT
Any ending you come up with would only be fan fiction, never canon. What if it gets inside a game? What do you mean? Was Mass Effect supposed to end like a war story, or like ROTJ? I mean that the way ME3 ended was obviously a mistake. Even Mac admitted it. If you actually told Bioware what to do, then they would have rewritten the ending. Well, they kinda did, but keeping the original ones in faith. They took my suggestion as to the how. To the T. Yes, but that's just an opinion. Just an opinion? TFA BOX OFFICE Worldwide $2,068,223,624 TLJ BOX OFFICE Worldwide $1,332,539,889 TROS BOX OFFICE Worldwide $1,069,433,999 How about facts? People didn't return for TLJ and had checked out by TRoS. Fact. If the ending of the "Skywalker Saga" is only worth $1 billion US, when Endgame made $2.8 billion dollars, that is a failure. Fact. If the people complaining knew anything about how software purchases work. Once you open the box or install the game digitally after agreeing to the EULA, all bets are off. Now if there was a broken disc, or you tried to start the game and it wouldn't run, that's another issue. They would honor that. EULA does not supersede national or international law. There are many cases, Warcraft 3 Reforged had its EULA violating Australian law, most recently, with its refund policy. EULA means absolutely nothing and is only there to cover the publisher's/developer's back on some of the most basic shit around. For anything that is covered by legislation, devs and publishers are fucked. As evident by Belgium's stance on lootboxes, a publisher's interpretation of law means less than nothing on such issues. I had a look at a top selling games list, and there was only about 35 games out of the thousands of games ever made that sold over 20 million copies. I've seen many Nintendo games on that list. So it sounds like those who sell over 20 million are the 1 percent And you don't understand how that is a problem for Bioware, that it isn't in that list, or even close to being in that list? Hell, name me one Bioware game that broke 10 million copies sold. 1. Not likely. When Bioware or any developer makes games, they didn't poll the audience on what kind of ending they wanted, and write it accordingly. They didn't do this for ME 1, 2 or 3. Or even Andromeda. Since there are millions of people buying the game everyone is going to have a different opinion on what should have happened. Even if you did have an idea they own the legal rights to the story, characters and universe. So you need their approval first before proposing such an ending. Which, you have never told me in any detail what that might be. Other than you think you can come up with a better ending than what they came up with. Side note, there was a guy who tried to make a Duke Nukem 3D game on the Unreal Engine 3, and Gearbox shut it down, because the guy didn't have their approval first.
2. I heard that they were proud of their team and stood by their work. Could you link where Mac said the ending wasn't very good?
3. I heard earlier in this thread by you or someone else, some people didn't want clarification or closure. They wanted a different ending entirely. Essentially redo everything from the beam run (or after Shepard gets up from being knocked out to the credits. Bioware's response to that was the refusal ending which basically kills everyone and the next cycle finishes off the Reapers with the Crucible. I don't think they took what those people with complaints said seriously. The Starchild is still there; same 3 choices with expanded outcomes; you can't argue with the Starchild about the Geth/Quarian peace and get him to change his mind (which, you really can't because the Crucible decided which options are available and their effects. He's just telling you what will happen when you push each button); some are even against control or synthesis in how it changes everyone's DNA into Reaper tech. Plus many other things like Shepard having a pistol with infinite ammo and when the Starchild talks he sounds like fem/male Shepard in the side channels. Or when you shoot Anderson there's no blood seen on him, but it's gushing out of you. And the Illusive Man doesn't seem to bleed when he got shot. Joker is the first one out of the Normandy even though in ME2, when the Normandy crashed he exclaimed "I think I broke a rib. Or all of them". And on and on and on.
4. Okay, but Mass Effect 3 is a mass produced game. Not a made to order game. Even if there was a problem, they wouldn't completely alter the game in order to pander to the whims of people on the internet. Now if there was a problem that prevented people from completing the game, that's different. However, people don't like the choices offered, they want different ones, because of "MY Shepard would never do that". Umm, your Shepard is Bioware's Shepard. Just like my Orc Shaman for WoW Classic is really Blizzard's character who they pre-determined what they'd look like or what spells they use, etc. I can mould him however I like, but the choices I have to do that are still pre-determined by Blizzard. Anyway, they think the game breaks the lore, but that's why they have editors. They don't just write and publish. There's a very specific iterative process and they talked about going back and making changes until they love that, it makes sense and fits with what they're doing. It was in one of ME3's pre-release videos.
5. None that I know of. That doesn't make them bad games.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Feb 22, 2020 2:37:14 GMT
Wow I haven't been here in months and this thread is still going. Score for me
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 3:09:27 GMT
If it's a ME3 ending thread, it's popular. I saw one on the BSN go on for 150 pages before Bioware closed the forums.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Feb 22, 2020 3:18:46 GMT
If it's a ME3 ending thread, it's popular. I saw one on the BSN go on for 150 pages before Bioware closed the forums. Is it an ME3 ending thread though? Still I haven't been here in a relatively long time and seeing it still at the front feels good for some reason....probably says more about me that I feel good about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 19:59:16 GMT
If it's a ME3 ending thread, it's popular. I saw one on the BSN go on for 150 pages before Bioware closed the forums. Is it an ME3 ending thread though? Still I haven't been here in a relatively long time and seeing it still at the front feels good for some reason....probably says more about me that I feel good about it. Any thread that talks about the future of Mass Effect, usually has some conversation about the ending in it.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 22, 2020 22:07:03 GMT
Yes the thing that damaged MEA's launch is less and less people falling for preorder bullshit due to abuse from many games. An abuse that would be fully legitimized by the buggy state that MEA launched in. And particularly the bugs with the chat animations which are a major part of the game. Issues like this are major and spread quickly. thus why players even to this day will ask if Andromeda is still buggy and worth it when buying it for 8 dollars. The same with AC Unity were people will still ask if it is as buggy as they remember it being talked about even though Ubi did fix it. And at least with Unity Ubi turned around and gave the story DLC to players for free as compensation. Granted it was obviously a PR stunt to make themselves look good by pretending to be generous. But at least they did something.
What did BioWare due to compensate?
ME3 had nothing to do with this. The premise of the game was spotty from the first announcement. And I'm someone who enjoyed ME3's ending and I was hesitant to get it on launch because the entire premise of the game sounded stupid. Then at launch I saw all the issues people were complaining about so I didn't buy it and the story wasn't very good. Then I saw how BioWare abandoned the title only a few months after launch and then that branch of BioWare was dissolved by EA. The result being I only finally got the game about 3 months ago or so because it was on sale for like 5 dollars in the PSN store. And $10 is about all that game is worth to me due to the poor pacing, boring story, massive plot conveniences that rival the OT combined and they destroyed the fun of the multiplayer game that ME3 introduced. While still retaining the loot box system.
The fact that the game was released under EA doesn't help given that EA is literally the single most evil video game company. Being directly responsible for the buying and eventual killing off of dozens of game companies after they stick their nose into the game development. Just look at the Sims 4. Literally all DLC costs almost much as the game it self.
Andromeda effected Andromeda nothing more nothing less.
Rise of Skywalkers very specifically showed that Palpatine lived. Which was a red flag for any Star Wars fan. And again this is the age of the internet and social media and nearly everyone has a phone that can connect to it. The shitty writing of it spread quickly. Much in the same way Avatar the Last Air Bender and Dragonball Evolution bombed in theaters because fans saw it and spread the word about how shitty and unfaithful the adaption was. This isn't the 1990's were most people only had word of mouth at best and only a few houses had internet and cared to join the few chat rooms to talk about the movie.
EA is not the single most evil publisher out there they all are for profit companies and care nothing about anything except making a profit. Activision Blizzard laid off over 800 employees because Blizzard wasn't forecasted to be profitable enough because of delays to future releases or Blizzard's actions dealing with Hong Kong protests. At least EA tries to relocate and move employees to other studios from the reports out there the majority if not all the people from BioWare Montreal was just moved to Motive Studios and it sounds like they also had a relocation program for Visceral employees well. If just closure of studios makes a game studio evil you should really look at the closure rate of a lot of the major publishers out there a lot of them have a pretty hefty body count EA might have a slightly larger one, but the key demographic for me would be layoffs and at least with the recent closures EA tried to keep their employees employed. I will agree that Andromeda did badly because of Andromeda, but there are no numbers out there to prove your assumptions about pre-orders. Andromeda was held to a much higher standard then most games about its bugs, I felt even Unity with all its problems didn't get the same amount of backlash. Yes Ubisoft gave a free DLC that with Mass Effect would have been considered cut content from the game. You did leave out that anyone that bought the Season Pass were forced to pick an old Ubisoft game instead of a refund and I am pretty sure in some countries that is illegal because that isn't what they were expecting at purchase. The difference between what happened with Ubisoft giving a free DLC and BioWare not giving one, is that after they finished developing Andromeda they started to move people to Motive so there wasn't anyone left to make new content if what Kotaku was saying was accurate. As far as people asking to if they should play Unity or Andromeda that is something I hear about a lot of games that were "okay" unless its a major blockbuster of a game. One thing I have heard more people express disappointment they listened to the online discussions about Andromeda for it wasn't as bad as they felt they were led to believe where I rarely here that about Unity. That could be due to the places I visit as well.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 22, 2020 22:18:25 GMT
Yes the thing that damaged MEA's launch is less and less people falling for preorder bullshit due to abuse from many games. An abuse that would be fully legitimized by the buggy state that MEA launched in. And particularly the bugs with the chat animations which are a major part of the game. Issues like this are major and spread quickly. thus why players even to this day will ask if Andromeda is still buggy and worth it when buying it for 8 dollars. The same with AC Unity were people will still ask if it is as buggy as they remember it being talked about even though Ubi did fix it. And at least with Unity Ubi turned around and gave the story DLC to players for free as compensation. Granted it was obviously a PR stunt to make themselves look good by pretending to be generous. But at least they did something.
What did BioWare due to compensate?
ME3 had nothing to do with this. The premise of the game was spotty from the first announcement. And I'm someone who enjoyed ME3's ending and I was hesitant to get it on launch because the entire premise of the game sounded stupid. Then at launch I saw all the issues people were complaining about so I didn't buy it and the story wasn't very good. Then I saw how BioWare abandoned the title only a few months after launch and then that branch of BioWare was dissolved by EA. The result being I only finally got the game about 3 months ago or so because it was on sale for like 5 dollars in the PSN store. And $10 is about all that game is worth to me due to the poor pacing, boring story, massive plot conveniences that rival the OT combined and they destroyed the fun of the multiplayer game that ME3 introduced. While still retaining the loot box system.
The fact that the game was released under EA doesn't help given that EA is literally the single most evil video game company. Being directly responsible for the buying and eventual killing off of dozens of game companies after they stick their nose into the game development. Just look at the Sims 4. Literally all DLC costs almost much as the game it self.
Andromeda effected Andromeda nothing more nothing less.
Rise of Skywalkers very specifically showed that Palpatine lived. Which was a red flag for any Star Wars fan. And again this is the age of the internet and social media and nearly everyone has a phone that can connect to it. The shitty writing of it spread quickly. Much in the same way Avatar the Last Air Bender and Dragonball Evolution bombed in theaters because fans saw it and spread the word about how shitty and unfaithful the adaption was. This isn't the 1990's were most people only had word of mouth at best and only a few houses had internet and cared to join the few chat rooms to talk about the movie.
EA is not the single most evil publisher out there they all are for profit companies and care nothing about anything except making a profit. Activision Blizzard laid off over 800 employees because Blizzard wasn't forecasted to be profitable enough because of delays to future releases or Blizzard's actions dealing with Hong Kong protests. At least EA tries to relocate and move employees to other studios from the reports out there the majority if not all the people from BioWare Montreal was just moved to Motive Studios and it sounds like they also had a relocation program for Visceral employees well. If just closure of studios makes a game studio evil you should really look at the closure rate of a lot of the major publishers out there a lot of them have a pretty hefty body count EA might have a slightly larger one, but the key demographic for me would be layoffs and at least with the recent closures EA tried to keep their employees employed.I will agree that Andromeda did badly because of Andromeda, but there are no numbers out there to prove your assumptions about pre-orders. Andromeda was held to a much higher standard then most games about its bugs, I felt even Unity with all its problems didn't get the same amount of backlash. Yes Ubisoft gave a free DLC that with Mass Effect would have been considered cut content from the game. You did leave out that anyone that bought the Season Pass were forced to pick an old Ubisoft game instead of a refund and I am pretty sure in some countries that is illegal because that isn't what they were expecting at purchase. The difference between what happened with Ubisoft giving a free DLC and BioWare not giving one, is that after they finished developing Andromeda they started to move people to Motive so there wasn't anyone left to make new content if what Kotaku was saying was accurate. As far as people asking to if they should play Unity or Andromeda that is something I hear about a lot of games that were "okay" unless its a major blockbuster of a game. One thing I have heard more people express disappointment they listened to the online discussions about Andromeda for it wasn't as bad as they felt they were led to believe where I rarely here that about Unity. That could be due to the places I visit as well. Yeah and it sounds like they're going to be doing that with the NFS gyus as well because whilst Criterion is taking ove rfrom Ghost on the Need for Speed franchise rumour has it they plan to transfer a lot of Ghost's people over to Criterion. Not all of them but enough t ohelp keep the NFS games rolling as Ghost is being downgraded into a support studio.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2020 0:42:56 GMT
Yes the thing that damaged MEA's launch is less and less people falling for preorder bullshit due to abuse from many games. An abuse that would be fully legitimized by the buggy state that MEA launched in. And particularly the bugs with the chat animations which are a major part of the game. Issues like this are major and spread quickly. thus why players even to this day will ask if Andromeda is still buggy and worth it when buying it for 8 dollars. The same with AC Unity were people will still ask if it is as buggy as they remember it being talked about even though Ubi did fix it. And at least with Unity Ubi turned around and gave the story DLC to players for free as compensation. Granted it was obviously a PR stunt to make themselves look good by pretending to be generous. But at least they did something.
What did BioWare due to compensate?
ME3 had nothing to do with this. The premise of the game was spotty from the first announcement. And I'm someone who enjoyed ME3's ending and I was hesitant to get it on launch because the entire premise of the game sounded stupid. Then at launch I saw all the issues people were complaining about so I didn't buy it and the story wasn't very good. Then I saw how BioWare abandoned the title only a few months after launch and then that branch of BioWare was dissolved by EA. The result being I only finally got the game about 3 months ago or so because it was on sale for like 5 dollars in the PSN store. And $10 is about all that game is worth to me due to the poor pacing, boring story, massive plot conveniences that rival the OT combined and they destroyed the fun of the multiplayer game that ME3 introduced. While still retaining the loot box system.
The fact that the game was released under EA doesn't help given that EA is literally the single most evil video game company. Being directly responsible for the buying and eventual killing off of dozens of game companies after they stick their nose into the game development. Just look at the Sims 4. Literally all DLC costs almost much as the game it self.
Andromeda effected Andromeda nothing more nothing less.
Rise of Skywalkers very specifically showed that Palpatine lived. Which was a red flag for any Star Wars fan. And again this is the age of the internet and social media and nearly everyone has a phone that can connect to it. The shitty writing of it spread quickly. Much in the same way Avatar the Last Air Bender and Dragonball Evolution bombed in theaters because fans saw it and spread the word about how shitty and unfaithful the adaption was. This isn't the 1990's were most people only had word of mouth at best and only a few houses had internet and cared to join the few chat rooms to talk about the movie.
EA is not the single most evil publisher out there they all are for profit companies and care nothing about anything except making a profit. Activision Blizzard laid off over 800 employees because Blizzard wasn't forecasted to be profitable enough because of delays to future releases or Blizzard's actions dealing with Hong Kong protests. At least EA tries to relocate and move employees to other studios from the reports out there the majority if not all the people from BioWare Montreal was just moved to Motive Studios and it sounds like they also had a relocation program for Visceral employees well. If just closure of studios makes a game studio evil you should really look at the closure rate of a lot of the major publishers out there a lot of them have a pretty hefty body count EA might have a slightly larger one, but the key demographic for me would be layoffs and at least with the recent closures EA tried to keep their employees employed. I will agree that Andromeda did badly because of Andromeda, but there are no numbers out there to prove your assumptions about pre-orders. Andromeda was held to a much higher standard then most games about its bugs, I felt even Unity with all its problems didn't get the same amount of backlash. Yes Ubisoft gave a free DLC that with Mass Effect would have been considered cut content from the game. You did leave out that anyone that bought the Season Pass were forced to pick an old Ubisoft game instead of a refund and I am pretty sure in some countries that is illegal because that isn't what they were expecting at purchase. The difference between what happened with Ubisoft giving a free DLC and BioWare not giving one, is that after they finished developing Andromeda they started to move people to Motive so there wasn't anyone left to make new content if what Kotaku was saying was accurate. As far as people asking to if they should play Unity or Andromeda that is something I hear about a lot of games that were "okay" unless its a major blockbuster of a game. One thing I have heard more people express disappointment they listened to the online discussions about Andromeda for it wasn't as bad as they felt they were led to believe where I rarely here that about Unity. That could be due to the places I visit as well. Activision Blizzard laid off a bunch of low skill workers. Sad but nothing new when companies audit themselves and cut off extra baggage. This happens to every company sooner or later and is an unfortunate reality of the capitalistic world. Hong Kong protests you still have a valid point but that one evil doesn't alter nor exceed everything EA has done. EA has literally killed more companies then any other major company. 11 game companies in total. All got popular making a game and then EA bought them out and altered the games. So people didn't buy them and then they shut them down. A lot of people don't preorder games. This literally got so popular that South Park made a joke about pre orders and how shitty they are.
Unity's launch was such a cluster fuck that Ubisoft literally gave away the story DLC FOR FREE to try an placate players and earn PR points. A game has to royally fuck up to get the developer to give away free STORY DLC in a desperate attempt to placate the masses and earn some brownie points. Because the story DLC would be the one DLC that everyone would buy. Meaning they gave up the biggest cash cow of all the DLC just to placate the pissed off fans. That is a massive cluster fuck.
And DLC is planned from the start of the game. Not only do you have to budget DLC into development time but you also have to make sure it fits into the over all story and narrative. Developers do not finish a game and then start on DLC. By the time the game is in a final build and the Q&A time are working on it they have already started building the DLC for the game. Their choice not to have any DLC was one they made from the start.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 23, 2020 0:46:49 GMT
EA is hardly the most evil company especially compared to the horror at Blizzard and Activision with the China mess up and mass layoffs.
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Post by Sanunes on Feb 23, 2020 5:16:07 GMT
Activision Blizzard laid off a bunch of low skill workers. Sad but nothing new when companies audit themselves and cut off extra baggage. This happens to every company sooner or later and is an unfortunate reality of the capitalistic world. Hong Kong protests you still have a valid point but that one evil doesn't alter nor exceed everything EA has done. EA has literally killed more companies then any other major company. 11 game companies in total. All got popular making a game and then EA bought them out and altered the games. So people didn't buy them and then they shut them down. A lot of people don't preorder games. This literally got so popular that South Park made a joke about pre orders and how shitty they are.
Unity's launch was such a cluster fuck that Ubisoft literally gave away the story DLC FOR FREE to try an placate players and earn PR points. A game has to royally fuck up to get the developer to give away free STORY DLC in a desperate attempt to placate the masses and earn some brownie points. Because the story DLC would be the one DLC that everyone would buy. Meaning they gave up the biggest cash cow of all the DLC just to placate the pissed off fans. That is a massive cluster fuck. And DLC is planned from the start of the game. Not only do you have to budget DLC into development time but you also have to make sure it fits into the over all story and narrative. Developers do not finish a game and then start on DLC. By the time the game is in a final build and the Q&A time are working on it they have already started building the DLC for the game. Their choice not to have any DLC was one they made from the start.
As far as evil I think our definations are too far apart, for I see a company at least trying to keep their employees employed at another one of their studios while closing a building less evil then firing almost 800 people. A building is a thing and regardless of what kind of position they had they are still being shown the door because a studio that made 100's of millions of dollars in profit wasn't enough. I said we don't know if people are pre-ordering less not that it hasn't changed, EA now states that 49% of their console sales are digital. I know since I went digital for my games I pre-order more a week or so in advanced for a game I know I am going to buy so I can pre-load it so all I have is the 80gig patch on release instead of a 80gig game download and then a 80gig patch. Great that South Park made an episode about it, but it doesn't mean they have real numbers on what people are doing. We can like it or dislike it all we want, I am just saying we don't know what the average gamer is doing with their games. I never said that Unity didn't get backlash, I said I think it got less then Andromeda. For there were a lot more articles about Andromeda from the places I visit daily about the game and not nearly as many about Unity. The comments and posts were there, just not in the same numbers.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Feb 23, 2020 16:59:20 GMT
Activision Blizzard laid off a bunch of low skill workers. Sad but nothing new when companies audit themselves and cut off extra baggage. This happens to every company sooner or later and is an unfortunate reality of the capitalistic world. Hong Kong protests you still have a valid point but that one evil doesn't alter nor exceed everything EA has done. EA has literally killed more companies then any other major company. 11 game companies in total. All got popular making a game and then EA bought them out and altered the games. So people didn't buy them and then they shut them down. A lot of people don't preorder games. This literally got so popular that South Park made a joke about pre orders and how shitty they are.
Unity's launch was such a cluster fuck that Ubisoft literally gave away the story DLC FOR FREE to try an placate players and earn PR points. A game has to royally fuck up to get the developer to give away free STORY DLC in a desperate attempt to placate the masses and earn some brownie points. Because the story DLC would be the one DLC that everyone would buy. Meaning they gave up the biggest cash cow of all the DLC just to placate the pissed off fans. That is a massive cluster fuck. And DLC is planned from the start of the game. Not only do you have to budget DLC into development time but you also have to make sure it fits into the over all story and narrative. Developers do not finish a game and then start on DLC. By the time the game is in a final build and the Q&A time are working on it they have already started building the DLC for the game. Their choice not to have any DLC was one they made from the start.
As far as evil I think our definations are too far apart, for I see a company at least trying to keep their employees employed at another one of their studios while closing a building less evil then firing almost 800 people. A building is a thing and regardless of what kind of position they had they are still being shown the door because a studio that made 100's of millions of dollars in profit wasn't enough. I said we don't know if people are pre-ordering less not that it hasn't changed, EA now states that 49% of their console sales are digital. I know since I went digital for my games I pre-order more a week or so in advanced for a game I know I am going to buy so I can pre-load it so all I have is the 80gig patch on release instead of a 80gig game download and then a 80gig patch. Great that South Park made an episode about it, but it doesn't mean they have real numbers on what people are doing. We can like it or dislike it all we want, I am just saying we don't know what the average gamer is doing with their games. I never said that Unity didn't get backlash, I said I think it got less then Andromeda. For there were a lot more articles about Andromeda from the places I visit daily about the game and not nearly as many about Unity. The comments and posts were there, just not in the same numbers. And yet you only mention the BioWare studio that was created to help with DLC for the main BioWare stuido. And yet you don't seem to mention about moving people from other companies www.thegamer.com/ea-game-developer-shut-down/ Westwood Studios,NuFx, Bullfrog Productions, PlayFish, Origin Systems, Phenomic Game Development, Black Box Games, Victory Games, Mythic Entertainment, DreamWorks Interactive, EA Salt Lake, Maxis Software, Visceral Games, and Pandemic Studios. Pandemic stuidos alone laid off 200 people when they were shut down. Collectively the lay offs because they didn't tap to EA's music is far more then Activision Blizzard.
The nearly 800 employees will come from nondevelopment and administrative-related parts of the business. That means that EA fucks over everyone while your complaint was mainly targeting excess fat of non important people being let go. Which again is a thing literally every company will do at some point. If you only need 3 janitors to clean an office and you have 6 then the reality is eventually 3 of them will be fired regardless of how good or how bad a company is doing.
Quite literally every were I go with every person I talk to no one is preordering anything anymore. Entire gaming subreddits full of thousands of people refuse to pre order any game anymore. Anyone, even casual gamers would have seen the hundreds of examples of games being shit on release and the backlash of it. That has lead to the no pre order stance that is so wide spread actually finding someone pro pre odering is a rarity for me. Because the entire argument against pre ordering is not wanting to give money to a company until they have shown that they are not releasing a buggy unfinished game.
And the best example that undermines your entire logic here is Fallout 76. The game Fallout 4 was one of the best selling Fallout games ever and widely received by everyone. Yet 76 barely had pre orders and so far has barely sold enough copies to equal what Fallout 3 sold. By your own logic 76 should have sold enough pre orders to match FO3's sales due to how popular FO4 was. Yet it did not and even though 4 was critically acclaimed 76 never reached even half of their total game sales.
And yet I saw a shit load of unity posts in every place I visited. With plenty of memes about it and people using it to confirm how greedy and fucked up Ubisoft is. While Andromeda got made fun of because the bugs should have been caught, the entire facial animation was more like someone in a rubber mask. And BioWare's admitted statement about just rushing stuff out and it working because of BioWare magic.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Feb 23, 2020 21:44:05 GMT
Is it an ME3 ending thread though? Still I haven't been here in a relatively long time and seeing it still at the front feels good for some reason....probably says more about me that I feel good about it. Any thread that talks about the future of Mass Effect, usually has some conversation about the ending in it. That's true. I didn't think about that.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Feb 23, 2020 21:50:05 GMT
EA is hardly the most evil company especially compared to the horror at Blizzard and Activision with the China mess up and mass layoffs. I am not an expert on blizzard and sctivision. When I think blizzard I think RTS like the old warcraft games and starcraft games. I am not an expert in EA layoffs. What I have a problem with and ALL the big companies do this is mergers of small studios or small business. So my opinion is all the big studios are bad from a morale stand point.
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Post by smilesja on Feb 23, 2020 22:29:11 GMT
EA is hardly the most evil company especially compared to the horror at Blizzard and Activision with the China mess up and mass layoffs. I am not an expert on blizzard and sctivision. When I think blizzard I think RTS like the old warcraft games and starcraft games. I am not an expert in EA layoffs. What I have a problem with and ALL the big companies do this is mergers of small studios or small business. So my opinion is all the big studios are bad from a morale stand point. Depends on the company. Bioware has some leeway on what they want to do though EA will tell them to add things such as: Multiplayer, microtransactions, etc.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Feb 24, 2020 0:39:05 GMT
I am not an expert on blizzard and sctivision. When I think blizzard I think RTS like the old warcraft games and starcraft games. I am not an expert in EA layoffs. What I have a problem with and ALL the big companies do this is mergers of small studios or small business. So my opinion is all the big studios are bad from a morale stand point. Depends on the company. Bioware has some leeway on what they want to do though EA will tell them to add things such as: Multiplayer, microtransactions, etc. I meant how they treat their employess and business practices. My opinion on optional MP (like in ME3 post extended cut) and optional microtransactions are optional and while I don't like them I understand them trying to make extra money as long as it isn't something you have to have in order to finish the game.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 24, 2020 15:42:02 GMT
They're bio-engineered, but I doubt moreso than the Collectors The collectors would also have to be dead. Which is the point. Collectors died because we blew up their home. If the Citadel was destroyed the keepers would be dead.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 24, 2020 15:47:54 GMT
Any less boring than "My character, who already beat the biggest threat ever" is now going on to beat a smaller threat. Maybe we should have Shepard retire to a garbage truck... clearing away the rubble left in London by the Reaper War. That would make for a great sci-fi exploration game (sarcasm). Which was part of the point of MEA. We can't beat a Reaper threat so we have to change the conditions. Consider, even in the MW, a beaten down galaxy. Threats that might not have been a challenge before are suddenly very dangerous. We don't have to top the last threat. Imagine broken relays (it'll take time to get them up and running again) and the inability to get reinforcements. Not even just that, but decimated forces everywhere. Say some more powerful species - not more than the Reapers - shows up and attacks. Maybe they were already en route using tech to travel we didn't have. They show up, attack, and suddenly we have a major threat on our hands. Topping the last threat is a way to failure. DC and Marvel both do that and I can tell you DC Comics is on the verge of collapse as a print medium.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2020 16:55:30 GMT
Any less boring than "My character, who already beat the biggest threat ever" is now going on to beat a smaller threat. Maybe we should have Shepard retire to a garbage truck... clearing away the rubble left in London by the Reaper War. That would make for a great sci-fi exploration game (sarcasm). Which was part of the point of MEA. We can't beat a Reaper threat so we have to change the conditions. Consider, even in the MW, a beaten down galaxy. Threats that might not have been a challenge before are suddenly very dangerous. We don't have to top the last threat. Imagine broken relays (it'll take time to get them up and running again) and the inability to get reinforcements. Not even just that, but decimated forces everywhere. Say some more powerful species - not more than the Reapers - shows up and attacks. Maybe they were already en route using tech to travel we didn't have. They show up, attack, and suddenly we have a major threat on our hands. Topping the last threat is a way to failure. DC and Marvel both do that and I can tell you DC Comics is on the verge of collapse as a print medium. Marvel, however, has been enjoying great success in the last several years. Print media are generally in decline and have been for many years. I also know of a lot of great newspapers that have gone under in the last 20 years. Some are just hanging on longer than others, but the media as a whole has been replaced by different tech. The same will eventually hold true for video games, I suspect. I'm old, I have seen a lot of such changes over my lifetime.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 24, 2020 19:23:30 GMT
Any less boring than "My character, who already beat the biggest threat ever" is now going on to beat a smaller threat. Maybe we should have Shepard retire to a garbage truck... clearing away the rubble left in London by the Reaper War. That would make for a great sci-fi exploration game (sarcasm). Which was part of the point of MEA. We can't beat a Reaper threat so we have to change the conditions. Consider, even in the MW, a beaten down galaxy. Threats that might not have been a challenge before are suddenly very dangerous. We don't have to top the last threat. Imagine broken relays (it'll take time to get them up and running again) and the inability to get reinforcements. Not even just that, but decimated forces everywhere. Say some more powerful species - not more than the Reapers - shows up and attacks. Maybe they were already en route using tech to travel we didn't have. They show up, attack, and suddenly we have a major threat on our hands. Topping the last threat is a way to failure. DC and Marvel both do that and I can tell you DC Comics is on the verge of collapse as a print medium. In terms of cinema, this worked for Marvel because it was a slow burn over the course of a decade. Where it goes now that Endgame is over is anyone's guess, but a decade+ of mostly solid efforts and a massively successful resolution is not too shabby. DC's numerous failures can't simply be boiled down to their inability to keep one-upping enemies. Their ineptitude goes a great deal deeper than that, both in comics and in cinema. If it's any consolation, Batman and co. won't just go extinct, but I think a change of ownership is kind of necessary.
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