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Fortifying everything.
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doomlolz
Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Aug 7, 2020 20:43:43 GMT
I’d be more concerned about the top secret info that the ship would contain that would be scattered all over the planet. Even if the Alliance can’t just send a bunch of ships into the Terminus to do retrieval, they could do something like the Corsairs, commissioned to retrieve what they can. Kinda funny that Shepard isn’t tasked with that. Just collect shiny dog tags. Man I hate doing that. I always forget where the last one is. That too. But the fact is the Alliance made no effort to find the remains of the SR1. They didn't care.
If/when a remake happens, I would have Shepard survive the beginning, then after being treated for his/her injuries, heads to the location where the SR1 was destroyed. Shepard, A/K and whoever else search the area to find the dogtags.
After spending about 2 years trying to find clues to stopping the reapers, without any success, Shepard meets up with Lawson on the Citadel. She talks about colonists being abducted. Shepard joins her on Freedoms Progress to get evidence. Later Shepard confronts Anderson who says nothing is being done causing Shepard to flip him the bird. She/he works with Cerberus to get answers. The Alliance aren't fans of that, but know something has to be done.
👆 This 100%.
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Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
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Post by Ascend on Aug 19, 2020 1:44:38 GMT
I’d be more concerned about the top secret info that the ship would contain that would be scattered all over the planet. Even if the Alliance can’t just send a bunch of ships into the Terminus to do retrieval, they could do something like the Corsairs, commissioned to retrieve what they can. Kinda funny that Shepard isn’t tasked with that. Just collect shiny dog tags. Man I hate doing that. I always forget where the last one is. That too. But the fact is the Alliance made no effort to find the remains of the SR1. They didn't care.
If/when a remake happens, I would have Shepard survive the beginning, then after being treated for his/her injuries, heads to the location where the SR1 was destroyed. Shepard, A/K and whoever else search the area to find the dogtags.
After spending about 2 years trying to find clues to stopping the reapers, without any success, Shepard meets up with Lawson on the Citadel. She talks about colonists being abducted. Shepard joins her on Freedoms Progress to get evidence. Later Shepard confronts Anderson who says nothing is being done causing Shepard to flip him the bird. She/he works with Cerberus to get answers. The Alliance aren't fans of that, but know something has to be done.
Sounds reasonable. I think it would be better if they flip the stories a bit. Start with ME2, then ME1, then ME3. Obviously a few things would need to change, but I think the story would work out more logical this way. You start like ME1, but rather than having the Geth and Saren, you find Eden Prime empty for example. There, after taking off trying to go back to the Citadel to report, you are attacked and the Normandy is destroyed, but you manage to escape (no revival nonsense). After the distress call, no one comes for you and your surviving crew. You later find out that the council and Alliance deemed it to risky to send anyone to disappear. Cerberus shows up, saves you all, and then practically everything can go on like ME2. The reapers should still remain a myth at the end of this game. Then you get ME1, with Saren going rogue and working with the Geth. Sovereign arriving etc. This is where you should get the cypher and the first information regarding the reapers. Near the end of the previous game, the Terminator was still a huge unknown to everyone. And preparations against the reapers should start here, rather than the last game. And then ME3, which can remain largely the same.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 19, 2020 1:49:54 GMT
Near the end of the previous game, the Terminator was still a huge unknown to everyone. What I would change is not fighting 3-eyes. It remains motionless while Shepard would fight the collector general.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,300 Likes: 50,679
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Aug 19, 2020 13:18:36 GMT
That too. But the fact is the Alliance made no effort to find the remains of the SR1. They didn't care.
If/when a remake happens, I would have Shepard survive the beginning, then after being treated for his/her injuries, heads to the location where the SR1 was destroyed. Shepard, A/K and whoever else search the area to find the dogtags.
After spending about 2 years trying to find clues to stopping the reapers, without any success, Shepard meets up with Lawson on the Citadel. She talks about colonists being abducted. Shepard joins her on Freedoms Progress to get evidence. Later Shepard confronts Anderson who says nothing is being done causing Shepard to flip him the bird. She/he works with Cerberus to get answers. The Alliance aren't fans of that, but know something has to be done.
Sounds reasonable. I think it would be better if they flip the stories a bit. Start with ME2, then ME1, then ME3. Obviously a few things would need to change, but I think the story would work out more logical this way. You start like ME1, but rather than having the Geth and Saren, you find Eden Prime empty for example. There, after taking off trying to go back to the Citadel to report, you are attacked and the Normandy is destroyed, but you manage to escape (no revival nonsense). After the distress call, no one comes for you and your surviving crew. You later find out that the council and Alliance deemed it to risky to send anyone to disappear. Cerberus shows up, saves you all, and then practically everything can go on like ME2. The reapers should still remain a myth at the end of this game. Then you get ME1, with Saren going rogue and working with the Geth. Sovereign arriving etc. This is where you should get the cypher and the first information regarding the reapers. Near the end of the previous game, the Terminator was still a huge unknown to everyone. And preparations against the reapers should start here, rather than the last game. And then ME3, which can remain largely the same. That's actually not bad...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 19, 2020 14:43:04 GMT
And then ME3, which can remain largely the same How does that fix ME3, though?
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 21, 2020 18:45:42 GMT
And then ME3, which can remain largely the same How does that fix ME3, though? Beyond the point of the final decision, ME3 isn’t really in dire need of major fixes. Any quibbles over treatment of certain NPC’s isn’t as much a concern over the primary issue that ultimately affects the franchise going forward.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 21, 2020 21:01:50 GMT
No.
Simple and direct.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,178
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is wanting to have some fun!
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cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 21, 2020 22:03:46 GMT
The endings toMass Effect 3 are what they are and no amount or remastering/remaking is going to change that.
People really to get over it.
Learn from the past. Respect the past. Honor the past Revisit the past. BUT DON'T STAY IN THE PAST, BECAUSE THAT LEADS TO STAGNATION AND DEATH!
MEA2 is the future and the best path forward and I would rather see ME go forward into the future than run backwards, stagnate, and die because people are butthurt over because a game didn't give them the endings that they wanted.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 21, 2020 22:15:20 GMT
The endings to Mass Effect 3 are what they are and no amount or remastering/remaking is going to change that. People really to get over it. Learn from the past. Respect the past. Honor the past Revisit the past. BUT DON'T STAY IN THE PAST, BECAUSE THAT LEADS TO STAGNATION AND DEATH! MEA2 is the future and the best path forward and I would rather see ME go forward into the future than run backwards, stagnate, and die because people are butthurt over because a game didn't give them the endings that they wanted. MeA2 is not the future for the Mass Effect, it never was. In order for Mass Effect to surive is to go to the past. Backwards prevents it becoming stale and die.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,300 Likes: 50,679
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Post by Iakus on Aug 21, 2020 22:46:59 GMT
The endings to Mass Effect 3 are what they are and no amount or remastering/remaking is going to change that. People really to get over it. Learn from the past. Respect the past. Honor the past Revisit the past. BUT DON'T STAY IN THE PAST, BECAUSE THAT LEADS TO STAGNATION AND DEATH! MEA2 is the future and the best path forward and I would rather see ME go forward into the future than run backwards, stagnate, and die because people are butthurt over because a game didn't give them the endings that they wanted. Given how they threw MEA under the bus, I'm not sure even Bioware believes that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 21, 2020 23:24:42 GMT
Beyond the point of the final decision, ME3 isn’t really in dire need of major fixes. Any quibbles over treatment of certain NPC’s isn’t as much a concern over the primary issue that ultimately affects the franchise going forward. I consider that a major problem. Because it prevents me from investing in NPCs going forward. Which prevents me from investing in Bioware games in general. Let's not full ourselves into saying that the crew had no pull over the audience, or that a large part of the fanbase wasn't attached to ME because of them.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 22, 2020 1:13:42 GMT
Beyond the point of the final decision, ME3 isn’t really in dire need of major fixes. Any quibbles over treatment of certain NPC’s isn’t as much a concern over the primary issue that ultimately affects the franchise going forward. I consider that a major problem. Because it prevents me from investing in NPCs going forward. Which prevents me from investing in Bioware games in general. Let's not full ourselves into saying that the crew had no pull over the audience, or that a large part of the fanbase wasn't attached to ME because of them. I never said that it didn’t. Heck, if it wasn’t for the companion content, the various failings of the plot throughout the entire trilogy would have lost me, especially ME2. And I’m sure other people consider the character content we got to be a major problem as well. The question is whether or not enough fans are largely satisfied with the roster that it actually isn’t as major a problem as you might think. Any ideas of having every companion in the official roster get an equal amount of content at this point, like, say, Jack becoming a shipmate in ME3, is just a pipe dream that’ll never come true. There’s just too many of them, and it’d be more likely that some simply get cut to put more focus on the more substantial character content. I’d say it’s better to fix the most egregious issues, then from there tweak other things if development allows. If we were going over things to really fix, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that there are bigger fish to fry than some deficiencies in the content for certain characters.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 22, 2020 1:27:16 GMT
The question is whether or not enough fans are largely satisfied with the roster that it actually isn’t as major a problem as you might think. I think it was a problem. Not ME3's only problem, but a large problem. I am going to say it again, had most of ME3 nailed what it needed to, throughout, the ending backlash wouldn't have been as bad. Any ideas of having every companion in the official roster get an equal amount of content at this point, like, say, Jack becoming a shipmate in ME3, is just a pipe dream that’ll never come true. There’s just too many of them, and it’d be more likely that some simply get cut to put more focus on the more substantial character content. That's Bioware's problem, though. Because unless you make that pipe dream real, I simply don't care for Bioware, nor do I trust Bioware. Especially since none of Bioware's characters since have stuck. If Cora or Peebee were a "hit" with the Andromeda crowd, Jack is more memorable and influential to the fanbase than both of them combined. Effectively, nobody cares about Cora or Peebee. They were utterly forgettable and their only influence was putting more people off, rather than on. I’d say it’s better to fix the most egregious issues, then from there tweak other things if development allows. If we were going over things to really fix, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that there are bigger fish to fry than some deficiencies in the content for certain characters. But Bioware won't fix any of these issues. Who trusts them to actually fix anything, at this point? Everyone expects a trash fire on release, with a possible, but not probable, fix down the line, in 2-3 years, at the cost of another $60-120. So give me some fun time with the characters, at least, which is all that carried the franchise, at the end of the day. Edit: BTW, they seemed to be able to do it just fine for the Citadel DLC, by bringing everyone back and giving them more content than the base game ever did, while also being a substantial expansion to the game. Jack, for example, got 5 times her base game content, in comparison. So I don't believe the "can't be done" excuse. Not enough budget? Not enough time? Andromeda got 2.5 times the budget and 3 times the dev period. So I don't believe that either. It's doable, they just didn't want to do it, or EA forced them. One or the other.
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Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,940 Likes: 3,178
inherit
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0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,178
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,940
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Cyberstrike on Aug 22, 2020 22:30:36 GMT
The endings to Mass Effect 3 are what they are and no amount or remastering/remaking is going to change that. People really to get over it. Learn from the past. Respect the past. Honor the past Revisit the past. BUT DON'T STAY IN THE PAST, BECAUSE THAT LEADS TO STAGNATION AND DEATH! MEA2 is the future and the best path forward and I would rather see ME go forward into the future than run backwards, stagnate, and die because people are butthurt over because a game didn't give them the endings that they wanted. MeA2 is not the future for the Mass Effect, it never was. In order for Mass Effect to surive is to go to the past. Backwards prevents it becoming stale and die.
What are you smoking and where I can get some?
Because that is some grade "A" 100% bullshit you're spouting there.
Going backwards is 100% death, and every time a major franchise tries to go backwards it never works, it makes a bigger mess that only loses more fans and gains very few, if any, new longtime fans. MEA2 is the best way forward, which also is by taking chances, doing new things, and telling new stories and that is how you keep from becoming stale and dying. Going backwards is just waste of money, talent, resources, and time to please a few fans and do nothing other than make Mass Effect just another cult classic sci-fi nostalgia franchise.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 22, 2020 22:38:47 GMT
What are you smoking and where I can get some?
Because that is some grade "A" 100% bullshit you're spouting there. New =/= good The notion of passing the torch doesn't exist? How about passing the torch to someone that is worth receiving it? Ryder wasn't it. There's no guarantee that whoever comes up next will either. Quite the contrary. If you can't introduce something new that is good, what do you have left? If you can't, then perhaps you should retire the franchise? But unfortunately, we're not getting that. So what's do we do next?
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Post by Phantom on Aug 22, 2020 22:51:19 GMT
MeA2 is not the future for the Mass Effect, it never was. In order for Mass Effect to surive is to go to the past. Backwards prevents it becoming stale and die.
What are you smoking and where I can get some?
Because that is some grade "A" 100% bullshit you're spouting there.
Going backwards is 100% death, and every time a major franchise tries to go backwards it never works, it makes a bigger mess that only loses more fans and gains very few, if any, new longtime fans. MEA2 is the best way forward, which also is by taking chances, doing new things, and telling new stories and that is how you keep from becoming stale and dying. Going backwards is just waste of money, talent, resources, and time to please a few fans and do nothing other than make Mass Effect just another cult classic sci-fi nostalgia franchise.
Well Unforturely what i talk about is not Bullshit due to the lack of ME:A support thru lack of news and Quarian DLC becoming a Novel. Some might say No News is good news yet their silence is deafening where ME:A is concern. It is the norm to have DLC news within a year within the gaming companies and having a sequel news within 2 to 4 years is also the norm. Their silences on ME:A 2 is fueling the remaster rumors. Going backwards is always a good thing with the fans.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 22, 2020 22:58:52 GMT
Hehe, hate me if you want but yes there should be at least a game that finishes Shepard's trilogy to quell the Bs of the ending and move on to the new game but hey that's just me least that way it will kill the whining just saying
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 22, 2020 23:01:41 GMT
Hehe, hate me if you want but yes there should be at least a game that finishes Shepard's trilogy to quell the Bs of the ending and move on to the new game but hey that's just me least that way it will kill the whining just saying We already had that. It’s called Mass Effect 3.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 22, 2020 23:02:24 GMT
Hehe, hate me if you want but yes there should be at least a game that finishes Shepard's trilogy to quell the Bs of the ending and move on to the new game but hey that's just me least that way it will kill the whining just saying Oh how long have you been online? that it is a massive pastime of the internet. If it is good then what shall we bitch about? Internet loves bitching. Complaining is a major part of Internet culture; where would we be without it?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by NotN7 on Aug 22, 2020 23:07:14 GMT
LOL! ya got me there (wait??? I'm Sure I had my pants up)
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Post by Phantom on Aug 22, 2020 23:08:55 GMT
LOL! ya got me there (wait??? I'm Sure I had my pants up) I am a Cerberus Phantom and that is what we do. Don't worry, my Lady Cerberus Phantoms are beautiful as they are dangerous.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 24, 2020 10:47:18 GMT
The question is whether or not enough fans are largely satisfied with the roster that it actually isn’t as major a problem as you might think. I think it was a problem. Not ME3's only problem, but a large problem. I am going to say it again, had most of ME3 nailed what it needed to, throughout, the ending backlash wouldn't have been as bad. Any ideas of having every companion in the official roster get an equal amount of content at this point, like, say, Jack becoming a shipmate in ME3, is just a pipe dream that’ll never come true. There’s just too many of them, and it’d be more likely that some simply get cut to put more focus on the more substantial character content. That's Bioware's problem, though. Because unless you make that pipe dream real, I simply don't care for Bioware, nor do I trust Bioware. Especially since none of Bioware's characters since have stuck. If Cora or Peebee were a "hit" with the Andromeda crowd, Jack is more memorable and influential to the fanbase than both of them combined. Effectively, nobody cares about Cora or Peebee. They were utterly forgettable and their only influence was putting more people off, rather than on. I’d say it’s better to fix the most egregious issues, then from there tweak other things if development allows. If we were going over things to really fix, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that there are bigger fish to fry than some deficiencies in the content for certain characters. But Bioware won't fix any of these issues. Who trusts them to actually fix anything, at this point? Everyone expects a trash fire on release, with a possible, but not probable, fix down the line, in 2-3 years, at the cost of another $60-120. So give me some fun time with the characters, at least, which is all that carried the franchise, at the end of the day. Edit: BTW, they seemed to be able to do it just fine for the Citadel DLC, by bringing everyone back and giving them more content than the base game ever did, while also being a substantial expansion to the game. Jack, for example, got 5 times her base game content, in comparison. So I don't believe the "can't be done" excuse. Not enough budget? Not enough time? Andromeda got 2.5 times the budget and 3 times the dev period. So I don't believe that either. It's doable, they just didn't want to do it, or EA forced them. One or the other.
You have that backwards. The ending was singularly the driving force behind the fan backlash toward the game, and it wasn’t because X subplot was weak or X character got neglected. Those amount to mere nitpicks by comparison. Whether you want to believe that or not won’t change that. Every single Mass Effect game is littered with sloppily assembled subplots that are full of nonsensical things and NPC’s that get the short end of the stick, even the one considered by most fans to be the best one. Like, anyone who romanced the VS got thoroughly shafted in ME2. If ME3 had nailed just about everything else, but still pulled the exact same ending prior to the Extended Cut, the hatred from the fandom would be just as strong. I’d even go so far to say that if everything up to that point was that much better, the effect of the abrupt conclusion they sold us might have even been worse, squandering what could have been the nigh perfect Mass Effect game. Look at Game of Thrones. It doesn’t even matter how good (or passable) the previous seasons were. Those two hacks thoroughly destroyed it, assassinating as many characters as they could before closing it out, and it’s not even worth a revisit, knowing where it all leads. A pipe dream, by its very definition, isn’t something you just make real. Whether or not BioWare or any developer can reasonably implement an idea that approximates to that pipe dream is anyone’s guess, but of course, with no clear idea of what that pipe dream even entails and how to implement it kind of makes that impossible. You don’t really know to what extent disposable characters can reasonably be used in an ongoing plot when that plot must also function without them. The Citadel DLC might look like a rebuttal on its face, until you realize that even the campaign in that extra (paid) expansion is still unaffected by whether or not these characters survive, and there are no extra missions that include them. Even when an NPC gets “5 times” their base content, what’s the difference when that content functions identically to what they got in the base game, other than simply being more of it? The impression I got was that you wanted all of the surviving characters to be incorporated into the main roster throughout the game, to have some impact on the plot or have missions that involve them or simply can’t happen if they aren’t around, not just having more side encounters on the hub. To that end, the Citadel DLC doesn’t actually provide a solution to that problem. It doesn’t matter whether or not Jack was influential to the fans. She was still a secondary, disposable character by design, unfortunately caught in what was ultimately a glut of more disposable followers with varying levels of relevance to the main story and Shepard’s overall history with the game so far. However popular or unpopular Cora and Peebee were won’t change that. All things considered though, I’d say that Jack got a far far better resolution than that plank Jacob. My expectations for whatever a trilogy remaster offers are fairly low, particularly when it comes to any story edits to such old content. I simply speak simply in the hypothetical scenario in which they even bothered to make those edits and where their priorities would likely be. Beyond your own reservations about this [possible] remaster release, I don’t see where “everyone” is expecting a trash fire. That’s not even the consensus I see on this forum, let alone the gaming community at large.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Aug 24, 2020 13:06:06 GMT
You have that backwards. The ending was singularly the driving force behind the fan backlash toward the game, True. and it wasn’t because X subplot was weak or X character got neglected. Those amount to mere nitpicks by comparison Technically, yes. Whether you want to believe that or not won’t change that I don't disagree with it. Every single Mass Effect game is littered with sloppily assembled subplots that are full of nonsensical things and NPC’s that get the short end of the stick, even the one considered by most fans to be the best one. Like, anyone who romanced the VS got thoroughly shafted in ME2. If ME3 had nailed just about everything else, but still pulled the exact same ending prior to the Extended Cut, the hatred from the fandom would be just as strong I think you would still get backlash. But not as strong. There would be a lot of satisfied fans, with the amount and quality of content received, even up to that point. The endings are merely the straw that broke the camel's back. If the game had been better, it might have even pulled the ending off. I’d even go so far to say that if everything up to that point was that much better It had some good moments. Grunts mission was the peak, for me. the effect of the abrupt conclusion they sold us might have even been worse, squandering what could have been the nigh perfect Mass Effect game I'd ... I'd not consider the rest of ME3 "perfect" by any means. It's a mostly mediocre execution of rather standard ideas, with more low points than high points. Look at Game of Thrones. It doesn’t even matter how good (or passable) the previous seasons were. Those two hacks thoroughly destroyed it, assassinating as many characters as they could before closing it out, and it’s not even worth a revisit, knowing where it all leads. So it's like Mass Effect that had two very well received games and one very bad one that destroyed the entire franchise? I agree with that idea. A pipe dream, by its very definition, isn’t something you just make real. Whether or not BioWare or any developer can reasonably implement an idea that approximates to that pipe dream is anyone’s guess, but of course, with no clear idea of what that pipe dream even entails and how to implement it kind of makes that impossible That is a problem with Bioware's lack of planning. You don’t really know to what extent disposable characters can reasonably be used in an ongoing plot when that plot must also function without them. The Citadel DLC might look like a rebuttal on its face, until you realize that even the campaign in that extra (paid) expansion is still unaffected by whether or not these characters survive, and there are no extra missions that include them. Even when an NPC gets “5 times” their base content, what’s the difference when that content functions identically to what they got in the base game, other than simply being more of it? Are we arguing that content requires to be plentiful? I doubt Harry Potter would have been as influential, had it been just 5 pages. You build things up, you explore characters, you go through arcs and you see them develop. Either through plot, or interaction. Content is king. It needs to exist. Lack of content makes the medium look anemic, bad content, or content you don't care for, makes the medium indifferent and its consumers dissatisfied. The impression I got was that you wanted all of the surviving characters to be incorporated into the main roster throughout the game, to have some impact on the plot or have missions that involve them or simply can’t happen if they aren’t around Isn't that what choice and consequence should be about? Otherwise, you remove the choice and just suffer the consequence. Of which, what is the point? Why give the choice, when you can't accommodate for it? It makes it look cheap and transparent. To that end, the Citadel DLC doesn’t actually provide a solution to that problem. Indeed. It is a crutch that fixes nothing. It doesn’t matter whether or not Jack was influential to the fans. She was still a secondary, disposable character by design, unfortunately caught in what was ultimately a glut of more disposable followers with varying levels of relevance to the main story and Shepard’s overall history with the game so far. However popular or unpopular Cora and Peebee were won’t change that. It doesn't. But you can't prop up the franchise on Peebee and Cora, because they weren't well received. Even Jacob was better received than them. All things considered though, I’d say that Jack got a far far better resolution than that plank Jacob. And I'd still pick Jacob over anyone in Andromeda. The problem isn't just in the reception of the characters in Andromeda, but also the prospect of the future. Bioware hastily swept well received characters under the rug, with ME3 and swapped them with the largely panned characters for Andromeda, with prospects for more of the same for whatever title comes next and with the added problem of dropping characters arcs, possibly, twice now. So not only is the trust between the fans and the narrative team broken, but I can expect the same treatment going forward, which it further detrimental to my attachment to these characters. Whether Bioware considers them disposable or not, should not be an issue nagging at my head, going forward with future installments, because it automatically, again, removes the choice of liking who I like, but rather liking only who Bioware plays favourite to. As I said earlier, it makes it look cheap and transparent, taking away from immersion. This is not a game I want to play. My expectations for whatever a trilogy remaster offers are fairly low, particularly when it comes to any story edits to such old content. I simply speak simply in the hypothetical scenario in which they even bothered to make those edits and where their priorities would likely be I don't expect to be any edits. It will be the same games, with a texture pack and reshade. Beyond your own reservations about this [possible] remaster release, I don’t see where “everyone” is expecting a trash fire Re-releasing the mess that is the MET, only to burn people again, when the original managed that just fine? A texture pack with reshade won't fix it. ME3 breaks the franchise. Whether it will have the added technical issues I expect it to, or not, is just a bonus. That’s not even the consensus I see on this forum, let alone the gaming community at large. There still are those who want it and power to them. It won't undo the damage the franchise has suffered, though. It's not a solution to Bioware's problems with it and it doesn't make ME relevant or prevalent in any way. It will be fast forgotten, after reminding everyone why it was broken in the first place and those who know Bioware from Andromeda and Anthem will steer clear of it, entirely.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 24, 2020 13:22:14 GMT
I think it was a problem. Not ME3's only problem, but a large problem. I am going to say it again, had most of ME3 nailed what it needed to, throughout, the ending backlash wouldn't have been as bad. That's Bioware's problem, though. Because unless you make that pipe dream real, I simply don't care for Bioware, nor do I trust Bioware. Especially since none of Bioware's characters since have stuck. If Cora or Peebee were a "hit" with the Andromeda crowd, Jack is more memorable and influential to the fanbase than both of them combined. Effectively, nobody cares about Cora or Peebee. They were utterly forgettable and their only influence was putting more people off, rather than on. But Bioware won't fix any of these issues. Who trusts them to actually fix anything, at this point? Everyone expects a trash fire on release, with a possible, but not probable, fix down the line, in 2-3 years, at the cost of another $60-120. So give me some fun time with the characters, at least, which is all that carried the franchise, at the end of the day. Edit: BTW, they seemed to be able to do it just fine for the Citadel DLC, by bringing everyone back and giving them more content than the base game ever did, while also being a substantial expansion to the game. Jack, for example, got 5 times her base game content, in comparison. So I don't believe the "can't be done" excuse. Not enough budget? Not enough time? Andromeda got 2.5 times the budget and 3 times the dev period. So I don't believe that either. It's doable, they just didn't want to do it, or EA forced them. One or the other.
You have that backwards. The ending was singularly the driving force behind the fan backlash toward the game, and it wasn’t because X subplot was weak or X character got neglected. Those amount to mere nitpicks by comparison. Whether you want to believe that or not won’t change that. Every single Mass Effect game is littered with sloppily assembled subplots that are full of nonsensical things and NPC’s that get the short end of the stick, even the one considered by most fans to be the best one. Like, anyone who romanced the VS got thoroughly shafted in ME2. If ME3 had nailed just about everything else, but still pulled the exact same ending prior to the Extended Cut, the hatred from the fandom would be just as strong. I’d even go so far to say that if everything up to that point was that much better, the effect of the abrupt conclusion they sold us might have even been worse, squandering what could have been the nigh perfect Mass Effect game. Look at Game of Thrones. It doesn’t even matter how good (or passable) the previous seasons were. Those two hacks thoroughly destroyed it, assassinating as many characters as they could before closing it out, and it’s not even worth a revisit, knowing where it all leads. A pipe dream, by its very definition, isn’t something you just make real. Whether or not BioWare or any developer can reasonably implement an idea that approximates to that pipe dream is anyone’s guess, but of course, with no clear idea of what that pipe dream even entails and how to implement it kind of makes that impossible. You don’t really know to what extent disposable characters can reasonably be used in an ongoing plot when that plot must also function without them. The Citadel DLC might look like a rebuttal on its face, until you realize that even the campaign in that extra (paid) expansion is still unaffected by whether or not these characters survive, and there are no extra missions that include them. Even when an NPC gets “5 times” their base content, what’s the difference when that content functions identically to what they got in the base game, other than simply being more of it? The impression I got was that you wanted all of the surviving characters to be incorporated into the main roster throughout the game, to have some impact on the plot or have missions that involve them or simply can’t happen if they aren’t around, not just having more side encounters on the hub. To that end, the Citadel DLC doesn’t actually provide a solution to that problem. It doesn’t matter whether or not Jack was influential to the fans. She was still a secondary, disposable character by design, unfortunately caught in what was ultimately a glut of more disposable followers with varying levels of relevance to the main story and Shepard’s overall history with the game so far. However popular or unpopular Cora and Peebee were won’t change that. All things considered though, I’d say that Jack got a far far better resolution than that plank Jacob. My expectations for whatever a trilogy remaster offers are fairly low, particularly when it comes to any story edits to such old content. I simply speak simply in the hypothetical scenario in which they even bothered to make those edits and where their priorities would likely be. Beyond your own reservations about this [possible] remaster release, I don’t see where “everyone” is expecting a trash fire. That’s not even the consensus I see on this forum, let alone the gaming community at large. I think what happens with Liara in Mass Effect 3 is s a good example of what can happen when there are too many characters that might or might not be present. Liara was one of the few characters that would return so she got stuck with the majority of dialogue that needed to be said for BioWare didn't or could have multiple character recite the exact same dialogue just in case that character dies. Not to mention they would have to animate two characters for the same content if there was something important happening, unless of course you have faith that people wouldn't get upset that they are losing content in a game based on choices they made in a prior game. Then I could see a second of people that only play the game once being upset that they aren't "getting the same experience because of choices in an older game" or something else along those lines. I have zero faith in the online community that something will be done wrong or not to its standards and its going to be another Mass Effect 3 ending debacle with BioWare going back for any kind of remaster. Now if they do decide to do it I am pretty sure they would have weighed the pros and cons of doing it, but I probably would avoid the dumpster fires that I would expect from people not getting what they want shortly after release.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 24, 2020 16:17:08 GMT
My expectations for whatever a trilogy remaster offers are fairly low, particularly when it comes to any story edits to such old content. I simply speak simply in the hypothetical scenario in which they even bothered to make those edits and where their priorities would likely be I don't expect to be any edits. It will be the same games, with a texture pack and reshade. Beyond your own reservations about this [possible] remaster release, I don’t see where “everyone” is expecting a trash fire Re-releasing the mess that is the MET, only to burn people again, when the original managed that just fine? A texture pack with reshade won't fix it. ME3 breaks the franchise. Whether it will have the added technical issues I expect it to, or not, is just a bonus. I find this idea kind of silly, because no one is getting burned again over this if the remaster turns out to be just that, a remaster. If their expectations for a remaster go well beyond just a technical upgrade of the same story, even if no one has ever suggested that the actual story or characters will be at all altered in the process, it’s their own fault for being stupid. In any case, it seems fairly clear to me that in spite of all the achy-breaky hearts and color-coordinated cupcakes flavored with hatred, a fair amount of actual love for the game and trilogy as a whole in its final form has persevered at least enough for this to warrant some positive anticipation. I’m sure the people who lost puppies and grandmothers to the cataclysm are determined that the original trilogy is dead to them forever, in which case, I guess it would be a wash if the worst that comes out of this is just the same story with a better paint job.
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