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Post by biggydx on Aug 26, 2019 23:02:46 GMT
...both? ( i am honestly shocked I got any answer at all but it's something I want to ask when we get an actual official announcement considering I wouldn't have thought anyone could talk about these things until then. ) A. Specifically I always wanted to know if you could switch between melee and ranged combat... and how would that be achieved. B. Generally: what games are bioware looking at for inspiration that way I might pick them up if i'm in a game hole. Personally I play pretty much every HD big release that comes out (I'll be playing Control and Astral Chain this weekend and Path of Exile and MHW:Iceborne the next couple weeks). I don't finish them all because that would be impossible given my time frames.
If you're just looking for recommendations it would depend on your tastes really. Also, while I'm already posting there seems to be some weird assumption here that A game being high quality means that it's fun to play. There are definitely games that are objectively good that aren't very fun to play for some people and likewise you can really enjoy games that are not technically amazing.
As for combat styles it's easy to design a system that makes sense to have both - animating it in a way that looks reasonable and doesn't feel clunky is a different story. There is always a hard debate about animation looking good/realistic vs. the game feeling smooth. If you get the chance, play any game that feels good to move around and stare at your feet while you're doing combat or doing hard turns and watch how they slide all over the place. Gamefly just shipped out Control for me, so it'll be interesting to see how the whole Psi-Ops gameplay aspect of it goes.
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Post by apollexander on Aug 27, 2019 5:50:48 GMT
Are you asking specifically or generally? ...both? ( i am honestly shocked I got any answer at all but it's something I want to ask when we get an actual official announcement considering I wouldn't have thought anyone could talk about these things until then. ) A. Specifically I always wanted to know if you could switch between melee and ranged combat... and how would that be achieved. B. Generally: what games are bioware looking at for inspiration that way I might pick them up if i'm in a game hole. I have seen some Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma and even Diablo 3 in DAI. And I believe the Mass Effect had learned from Gears of War.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 27, 2019 5:53:11 GMT
...both? ( i am honestly shocked I got any answer at all but it's something I want to ask when we get an actual official announcement considering I wouldn't have thought anyone could talk about these things until then. ) A. Specifically I always wanted to know if you could switch between melee and ranged combat... and how would that be achieved. B. Generally: what games are bioware looking at for inspiration that way I might pick them up if i'm in a game hole. I have seen some Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma and even Diablo 3 in DAI. And I believe the Mass Effect had learned from Gears of War. I've heard God of War in reference to 4 before but honestly I kind of hope not, what I have seen of GoW does not fill me with a lot of confidence, just fighting greater and greater series of bosses.
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Post by apollexander on Aug 27, 2019 6:02:41 GMT
I have seen some Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma and even Diablo 3 in DAI. And I believe the Mass Effect had learned from Gears of War. I've heard God of War in reference to 4 before but honestly I kind of hope not, what I have seen of GoW does not fill me with a lot of confidence, just fighting greater and greater series of bosses. I never played God of War, but I think at least Bioware should get some inspiration on how to make the game more seamless, especially after Anthem.
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Post by 10k on Aug 27, 2019 12:07:15 GMT
While the Legacy of the First Blade DLC indeed made the baffling and awkward choice to make a relationship including parenthood mandatory, a plot that only barely worked even for my family-oriented nice Alexios and not at all for my girlfriend's "Screw that"-Sparta Kick-Kassandra, overall Assassin's Creed Odyssey features quite a lot of player choice. When was the last time in a BioWare game you could talk to the antagonist and then let them go instead of fighting them? I'm no big AC fan by any measure, but BioWare might want to take a good look at the polish and support Odyssey received. SPOT ON! It's crazy how people will laugh at one decision, made in a DLC, that doesn't even affect the game at all in its entirety. "The game forces Alexios or Kassandra to be heterosexual lol this makes it a bad game." Really...? Give me a break. Odyssey has had way more player choice and decisions than Inquisition, Andromeda, and Anthem; and Ubisoft isn't even an RPG creator. The idea that a character's sexuality, that doesn't even matter, can ruin an entire game is ridiculous and shows just how much identity politics are affecting video games. I didn't romance anyone in Odessey and for Alexios to just have a baby, was just a shrugging moment for me. He has a child that is never talked about again. Sure it hurts the player sexuality choice, but in the context of the story, it had to happen. Alexios had to continue the bloodline and only other way he could do that is by having a child. That's just how things work. Edit: Also players don't even have to play that DLC to further the story, so it's irrelevant in the great scheme of things.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Aug 27, 2019 13:04:09 GMT
Edit: Also players don't even have to play that DLC to further the story, so it's irrelevant in the great scheme of things. I'm confused. How can the baby be both something that has to happen for the story to work and totally irrelevant in the greater context of the game? Why bother forcing it on the player if it doesn't actually matter?
Anyway, I would love to see what would have happened if the game had automatically made Alexios have sex with a man instead of a woman. I get the feeling that at least a few of the people complaining about people complaining wouldn't feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot ...
From my own perspective, I'd be a lot less annoyed about games inflicting pregnancy on my characters I was ever allowed to roleplay the situation sensibly. (If the setting doesn't have safe abortion yet, there's always drinking mercury, throwing yourself off the nearest cliff or leaving the baby in a box on the local temple steps.)
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2019 13:19:09 GMT
Edit: Also players don't even have to play that DLC to further the story, so it's irrelevant in the great scheme of things. I'm confused. How can the baby be both something that has to happen for the story to work and totally irrelevant in the greater context of the game? Why bother forcing it on the player if it doesn't actually matter?
Anyway, I would love to see what would have happened if the game had automatically made Alexios have sex with a man instead of a woman. I get the feeling that at least a few of the people complaining about people complaining wouldn't feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot ...
From my own perspective, I'd be a lot less annoyed about games inflicting pregnancy on my characters I was ever allowed to roleplay the situation sensibly. (If the setting doesn't have safe abortion yet, there's always drinking mercury, throwing yourself off the nearest cliff or leaving the baby in a box on the local temple steps.)
I'm not exactly an expert on the Assassin's Creed games, but from what I understand... The overall mythology has to do with genetic memory, or something along those lines, yes? So a direct, unbroken bloodline is needed to link all the protagonists up to the present day Animus machine. So at some point a kid would be needed to continue the line. Even if the protagonist's INVOLVEMENT in the child's life is not. And since ancient Greece did not have in vitro fertilization or cloning, the only way to pass on genetic progeny is the old fashioned way. Again, no expert on the series, I've only played the first game and some of the second, but that's my understanding of it.
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 27, 2019 13:26:55 GMT
I will let you know when I play them.
That really is kind of the end point here. We can speculate a lot on how two console exclusive titles and a game that has spent nearly 8 years in development can do when we play them in comparison to whenever Dragon Age 4 comes out.
Until then, the only validity I see in asking this question is when you consider the games mentioned are very "non-traditional" RPGs, in the sense of them being in the mold of open-world, action-oriented games over the more classic Baldur's Gate style games that many a grognard pine for. It is likely BioWare will continue in the open-world action formula in some way, so it will boil down to how mechanics and narrative work.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 27, 2019 13:29:10 GMT
Is it actually forced on the player? That character can just not go through the DLC. Some of my Wardens say KMAG-YOYO after the Blight is defeated rather than going through DA:A.
Though that means you'd have to headcanon something else for the bloodline thing, it shouldn't be too hard.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2019 13:32:46 GMT
I will let you know when I play them. That really is kind of the end point here. We can speculate a lot on how two console exclusive titles and a game that has spent nearly 8 years in development can do when we play them in comparison to whenever Dragon Age 4 comes out. Until then, the only validity I see in asking this question is when you consider the games mentioned are very "non-traditional" RPGs, in the sense of them being in the mold of open-world, action-oriented games over the more classic Baldur's Gate style games that many a grognard pine for. It is likely BioWare will continue in the open-world action formula in some way, so it will boil down to how mechanics and narrative work. Interesting: Given it was Skyrim that popularized the open world RPG, and it's almost a decade old at this point, and the genre has been around even longer (Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Oblivion, Morrowind) Has open-world become the new "traditional" formula?
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 27, 2019 13:40:37 GMT
I will let you know when I play them. That really is kind of the end point here. We can speculate a lot on how two console exclusive titles and a game that has spent nearly 8 years in development can do when we play them in comparison to whenever Dragon Age 4 comes out. Until then, the only validity I see in asking this question is when you consider the games mentioned are very "non-traditional" RPGs, in the sense of them being in the mold of open-world, action-oriented games over the more classic Baldur's Gate style games that many a grognard pine for. It is likely BioWare will continue in the open-world action formula in some way, so it will boil down to how mechanics and narrative work. Interesting: Given it was Skyrim that popularized the open world RPG, and it's almost a decade old at this point, and the genre has been around even longer (Fallout 3 and New Vegas, Oblivion, Morrowind) Has open-world become the new "traditional" formula? Perhaps yes, though I still hear folks who grumble about it because it gets in the way of a good RPG. It's funny too how by necessity that has become the norm for companies like BioWare who are adept at what they did in Inquisition by design - not quest design sure, but world design. Large scale, singular maps I personally prefer over a massive open world continent, but the former is a dying design choice.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 27, 2019 13:46:02 GMT
I remember being told back in 2001 that Morrowind was the future and Bio was being left behind. Maybe it's finally true.
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Post by 10k on Aug 27, 2019 14:26:33 GMT
Edit: Also players don't even have to play that DLC to further the story, so it's irrelevant in the great scheme of things. I'm confused. How can the baby be both something that has to happen for the story to work and totally irrelevant in the greater context of the game? Why bother forcing it on the player if it doesn't actually matter?
Anyway, I would love to see what would have happened if the game had automatically made Alexios have sex with a man instead of a woman. I get the feeling that at least a few of the people complaining about people complaining wouldn't feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot ...
From my own perspective, I'd be a lot less annoyed about games inflicting pregnancy on my characters I was ever allowed to roleplay the situation sensibly. (If the setting doesn't have safe abortion yet, there's always drinking mercury, throwing yourself off the nearest cliff or leaving the baby in a box on the local temple steps.)
Firstly, I wouldn't care if Alexios would have had sex with a men or a women, I never cared for romances in games or in real life for that matter. So sexuality is never a concern of mine when it comes to a video game or anything else. Romances are corny as hell in games and adds nothing to the overall story. They're nothing but a cheap way to have a player care about characters. Now secondly, it has to happen because of the context of the DLC's story. It's about continuing Alexios and Kassandra's Legacy and only way to do that is to have a blood related child. But it's also irrelevant because it does nothing to affect the overall story and players are not forced to play the DLC. You can literally play the entirety of the game without playing legacy. That's how it has to happen, but at the same time it is irrelevant.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 27, 2019 16:44:32 GMT
I'm confused. How can the baby be both something that has to happen for the story to work and totally irrelevant in the greater context of the game? Why bother forcing it on the player if it doesn't actually matter?
Anyway, I would love to see what would have happened if the game had automatically made Alexios have sex with a man instead of a woman. I get the feeling that at least a few of the people complaining about people complaining wouldn't feel the same if the shoe was on the other foot ...
From my own perspective, I'd be a lot less annoyed about games inflicting pregnancy on my characters I was ever allowed to roleplay the situation sensibly. (If the setting doesn't have safe abortion yet, there's always drinking mercury, throwing yourself off the nearest cliff or leaving the baby in a box on the local temple steps.)
I'm not exactly an expert on the Assassin's Creed games, but from what I understand... The overall mythology has to do with genetic memory, or something along those lines, yes? So a direct, unbroken bloodline is needed to link all the protagonists up to the present day Animus machine. So at some point a kid would be needed to continue the line. Even if the protagonist's INVOLVEMENT in the child's life is not. And since ancient Greece did not have in vitro fertilization or cloning, the only way to pass on genetic progeny is the old fashioned way. Again, no expert on the series, I've only played the first game and some of the second, but that's my understanding of it. The series hasn’t required the person seeing the memories being a descendant for about half the series now. Now they simply use DNA of the person. In this case, blood found in the spear. So there is no reason why it had to happen, and Ubisoft before release promised they would never do exactly what that DLC does. It’s clear they were just queer baiting to raise sales. Also I wasn’t just thinking of the DLC when I said that. The whole game has very little choice and what choice there is doesn’t affect anything. It’s funny how a poster who has complained about how little BioWare choices matter is hailing ACO as raising the bar for RPGs when it is far more guilty of those complaints.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 27, 2019 16:53:14 GMT
I'm not exactly an expert on the Assassin's Creed games, but from what I understand... The overall mythology has to do with genetic memory, or something along those lines, yes? So a direct, unbroken bloodline is needed to link all the protagonists up to the present day Animus machine. So at some point a kid would be needed to continue the line. Even if the protagonist's INVOLVEMENT in the child's life is not. And since ancient Greece did not have in vitro fertilization or cloning, the only way to pass on genetic progeny is the old fashioned way. Again, no expert on the series, I've only played the first game and some of the second, but that's my understanding of it. The series hasn’t required the person seeing the memories being a descendant for about half the series now. Now they simply use DNA of the person. In this case, blood found in the spear. So there is no reason why it had to happen, and Ubisoft before release promised they would never do exactly what that DLC does. It’s clear they were just queer baiting to raise sales. Also I wasn’t just thinking of the DLC when I said that. The whole game has very little choice and what choice there is doesn’t affect anything. It’s funny how a poster who has complained about how little BioWare choices matter is hailing ACO as raising the bar for RPGs when it is far more guilty of those complaints. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said, I've played less than two of the AC games. If they've abandoned the whole "remember your ancestors' memories thing, then I guess that's what they did. But I long ago decided that the games were just a fancy parkour simulator wrapped around a rather nihilistic story. So I hope you're not referring to me as hailing the ACO as anything, given I've never played it, nor most of its predecessors.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 27, 2019 17:00:03 GMT
The series hasn’t required the person seeing the memories being a descendant for about half the series now. Now they simply use DNA of the person. In this case, blood found in the spear. So there is no reason why it had to happen, and Ubisoft before release promised they would never do exactly what that DLC does. It’s clear they were just queer baiting to raise sales. Also I wasn’t just thinking of the DLC when I said that. The whole game has very little choice and what choice there is doesn’t affect anything. It’s funny how a poster who has complained about how little BioWare choices matter is hailing ACO as raising the bar for RPGs when it is far more guilty of those complaints. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Like I said, I've played less than two of the AC games. If they've abandoned the whole "remember your ancestors' memories thing, then I guess that's what they did. But I long ago decided that the games were just a fancy parkour simulator wrapped around a rather nihilistic story. So I hope you're not referring to me as hailing the ACO as anything, given I've never played it, nor most of its predecessors. I was just filling you in on how the series dropped that a long time ago. And no I wasn’t referring to you. I was referring to Majesticjizz since he was the one who said that which I replied with the gif.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 27, 2019 17:26:11 GMT
The only correct answer is, "We don't know".
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Post by cypherj on Aug 27, 2019 17:39:25 GMT
The game isn't even out yet,so it's hard to say. Having said that. If they don't address their poor management issues, retain some of their better talent, and really acquaint themselves with the intricacies of using frostbite in RPGs the answer is definitely going to be no.
The better question would be is Bioware still capable of making great games. When you ask people their favorite Bioware games, or favorite games of all time. People are still saying KOTOR, DA:O, BG2. The most recent Bioware game I see people say a lot is ME2. We're coming up on ten years since that game was released, even more for the others. Last Bioware game that bridged into that great/excellent category for me, that I still do a run through of every so often was DA:O.
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Post by Gwydden on Aug 28, 2019 1:32:07 GMT
I remember being told back in 2001 that Morrowind was the future and Bio was being left behind. Maybe it's finally true. Bethesda isn't doing so hot either. They and Bioware made their name with RPGs, but over the last decade they've been throwing RPG elements away like ballast. It's not surprising their audience has turned on them, specially since, unlike ten years ago, they're not starved for choice.
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2019 12:29:57 GMT
I remember being told back in 2001 that Morrowind was the future and Bio was being left behind. Maybe it's finally true. Bethesda isn't doing so hot either. They and Bioware made their name with RPGs, but over the last decade they've been throwing RPG elements away like ballast. It's not surprising their audience has turned on them, specially since, unlike ten years ago, they're not starved for choice. Being starved for choice implies something to me; that the design of the games is, for a lack of a better word, outdated even then, but folks lapped it up because it was the only games in town. I am curious, but where do you draw the line for innovation vs familiarity here.
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Post by Gwydden on Aug 29, 2019 3:20:06 GMT
Being starved for choice implies something to me; that the design of the games is, for a lack of a better word, outdated even then, but folks lapped it up because it was the only games in town. I am curious, but where do you draw the line for innovation vs familiarity here. The expression does not imply that to me. By saying "starved for choice" I meant exactly that: ten years ago, there was no meaningful alternative to Bioware and Bethesda. The perceived quality of their games is besides the point. If your local ice cream shop sells only mint chocolate chips flavor, you'll be starved for choice whether that's your favorite or can't stand the stuff. For what it's worth, I think Bioware were making good games at the time. Whether they would still have been successful with more competition around is difficult to say and perhaps the wrong question altogether. The first couple decades of CRPG history was mostly dungeon crawlers. From roughly 1997 to 2003 you get the Interplay era that everyone now remembers as that of "classic" CRPGs. In the 2003-2013 period, you get the Bioware/Bethesda dichotomy wherein the genre got streamlined and went mainstream, like everything else. Games like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity: Original Sin could not have been made in that time, not without the explosion in indie games, crowdfunding, and retro sensibilities. To address your other comment, I think that means that there's merit to the notion of a gaming dark age between the hobby becoming big enough for profiteering to stranglehold innovation sometime in the early 00s and the indie and AA scenes becoming meaningful alternatives to the way the AAA industry does business. Bioware thrived during this period, and to say they did so through innovation is like saying that MOBAs innovated RTS by ditching everything that made the genre distinctive and incorporating elements from more popular, and hence more familiar, games. Baldur's Gate 1 would have been familiar to people experienced with AD&D in 1998. Mass Effect 3 would have been familiar to anyone who had played a shooter in 2012. Bioware's problem has never been that their games were outdated; quite the opposite. Over and over they've been criticized for chasing trends. But it would be cynical and disingenuous to pretend it's all bad. They're responsible for several big contributions to RPG design: the companion and romance system (which technically Planescape: Torment did first, but which BG2 popularized), the save import system first used in BG2, Neverwinter Nights' modding tools, and the playable character backgrounds from DA:O. That's pretty innovative stuff! It's also stuff from games that came out a good while ago.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 29, 2019 4:51:05 GMT
A few things I want to mention. People keep pointing to a game with a system they like and say BioWare should do something like that. The problem I see with that is it ignores the flaws that game has for those flaws were the sacrifices to make the game work. If you try to take the best system from every game and trying to implement it in one package you get Mass Effect: Andromeda were they made the critical mistake of claiming they were trying to take the best ideas from the first three games and in turn it was unable to replicate the experiences of those games.
The other thing is we really don't know how BioWare games really did, people can make assumptions on how well they did or didn't do. EA doesn't really release the numbers aside from "facts that make us look good". If how someone perceives how a game did doesn't mean that is the reality of the situation, even my guesses are just that.
What I expect is BioWare to change up what they have been doing for that is more consistent with almost all their games, the only games that I can think of that were fairly close to being the same was Mass Effect 2 and 3. Part of the reason for that is they went directly from Mass Effect 2 to Mass Effect 3 and kept a lot of the assets. So being worried about what they have done in the past isn't something I am concerned about even the whole thing about lootboxes it was something they minimized with Anthem or that the game must be "fantasy Anthem" because they made Anthem doesn't make sense either.
I am not going to run claiming the sky is falling until I actually see what BioWare is doing with Dragon Age for otherwise that means I am assuming what they are really doing with the game.
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Kabraxal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Aug 29, 2019 18:42:56 GMT
Well, considering the last DA has not been equaled by any other dev, I see no reason why DA4 can’t be better than any of the upcoming releases in the next two years. Not like it’s going up against the greatest of the great.
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simit
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by simit on Aug 30, 2019 10:03:07 GMT
DA4 doesn't need to compete, for me, i'll buy DA4 on release unlike they other titles.
TW3 did have better quests and i did enjoy my time playing it twice HZD again i enjoyed twice but feel it was praised to high while other games were shat on for having the same short coming's, shit facial animations an over abundant fetch quests, for me HZD was farcry with dino bots
DA:I i initially bought on p4 an had over 35 PT an them bought again on XB1 an had about the same amount of PT with only 1 on each being 100%, was it perfect? No, but i've never played a game that is, could they learn from it an what they have did since? Definitely an they probably will, will i like what they do? Who knows but i'll be there to try it.
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midnightwolf
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion
Origin: BlackSassyWolf
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Post by midnightwolf on Aug 30, 2019 14:56:23 GMT
DA4 doesn't need to compete, for me, i'll buy DA4 on release unlike they other titles. TW3 did have better quests and i did enjoy my time playing it twice HZD again i enjoyed twice but feel it was praised to high while other games were shat on for having the same short coming's, shit facial animations an over abundant fetch quests, for me HZD was farcry with dino bots DA:I i initially bought on p4 an had over 35 PT an them bought again on XB1 an had about the same amount of PT with only 1 on each being 100%, was it perfect? No, but i've never played a game that is, could they learn from it an what they have did since? Definitely an they probably will, will i like what they do? Who knows but i'll be there to try it. It also only ever rewarded the player with one to 15XP for said quests. Which made levelling to complete the base game and DLC almost impossible since they're level based. I REALLY HOPE, Bioware NEVER follow the Witcher in this case!
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