Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 30, 2020 19:53:45 GMT
Personally, I'd take that one step further and say that they should have seriously questioned the idea that they needed an "open world" or any "side quests" to begin with.
Bioware always failed at creating a living environment. They even can't create a city that looks as if it was alive, so why should they try their hand at open worlds? That's simplly not their strength. Their strength always lay in story telling and in creating interesting companions. Well, at least until MEA, but that's just my opinion.
Eh? Inquisition has a world that feels like it actually exists and isn’t just a game world. I can’t say that of any other world in gaming, even Tamriel.
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Post by abaris on Jun 30, 2020 20:18:37 GMT
How so? I mean, it's obviously down to tastes, but the NPCs are unreactive road blocks. Outside of scripted events, they just stand in their designed spot, doing nothing. Your own troops do nothing, if you're fighting right under their noses. I don't mean in missions, but on the world maps, when you happen to encounter enemies in one of your camps or next to it. NPCs can't even catch a stray arrow, it's like they're in a different dimension, removed from anything that could hurt them. That was always the case. From DA:O, over DAII to DA:I or the Mass Effect trilogy or MEA.
Far as I can judge, Bioware is the only company left, creating such unreactive environments, bordering on backdrops. That goes for all game companies I know of. I mean, it's possible that others do it as well, but I certainly haven't played their games.
This thread is about if they can compete with today's quality of games. Well, in that aspect they can't, far as I am concerned. In other aspects they could, if they go back to at least DA:I in terms of storytelling and party design.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 30, 2020 20:49:39 GMT
How so? I mean, it's obviously down to tastes, but the NPCs are unreactive road blocks. Outside of scripted events, they just stand in their designed spot, doing nothing. Your own troops do nothing, if you're fighting right under their noses. I don't mean in missions, but on the world maps, when you happen to encounter enemies in one of your camps or next to it. NPCs can't even catch a stray arrow, it's like they're in a different dimension, removed from anything that could hurt them. That was always the case. From DA:O, over DAII to DA:I or the Mass Effect trilogy or MEA.
Far as I can judge, Bioware is the only company left, creating such unreactive environments, bordering on backdrops. That goes for all game companies I know of. I mean, it's possible that others do it as well, but I certainly haven't played their games.
This thread is about if they can compete with today's quality of games. Well, in that aspect they can't, far as I am concerned. In other aspects they could, if they go back to at least DA:I in terms of storytelling and party design.
It looks like you are looking at through gameplay reactivity and not lore and history being integrated so completely. I find “reactive” worlds to feel shallow and less immersive. BotW had a “reactive” world but was so flat, shallow, boring, and one dimensional that I didn’t care about doing anything in that world. Whereas I’ll wander the Hissing Wastes for hours simply because it feels real and that you could step through the screen and not be surprised it was a window all along. As for random NPC interaction... not sure what ganes you play, but no game has deep interactions with random npcs. So not sure how you’re holding that against Inquisition.
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Post by abaris on Jun 30, 2020 21:10:55 GMT
You explained what you're looking for and that's why I said, it's down to tastes. By reactive I mean, that there's some kind of reaction, not complicated interaction. Something to make them look alive. Taking cover when there's fighting, participating if their faction (templars Kirkwall, inquisition soldiers DA:I) is in some way involved. Being real NPCs that can be hurt, with you, the player, being blamed if you kill an innocent. That's what makes for an immersive environment for me. Certainly not telegraph poles, just standing in your path.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 1, 2020 1:34:10 GMT
Haha, I'd really rather not have the guards brought down on my head because my finger slipped and I accidentally killed the armor merchant. I don't think DA really lends itself to that kind of thing, even if they could do it.
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Post by smilesja on Jul 1, 2020 2:01:07 GMT
Jesus Christ this thread is still going!?!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 1, 2020 2:48:24 GMT
Haha, I'd really rather not have the guards brought down on my head because my finger slipped and I accidentally killed the armor merchant. I don't think DA really lends itself to that kind of thing, even if they could do it. Yeah especially i fyou were ther trying to byu something from him I' d rather be buyin grather than killing him.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 1, 2020 2:49:31 GMT
Jesus Christ this thread is still going!?! Cretainly seems that way.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jul 1, 2020 2:57:16 GMT
Haha, I'd really rather not have the guards brought down on my head because my finger slipped and I accidentally killed the armor merchant. I don't think DA really lends itself to that kind of thing, even if they could do it. I remember accidentally dropping my controller in Oblivion once... the murder that simple mistake involved 0.0. The Butcher of Bravil was born!... because she tripped and her dagger went right through some poor sod’s throat.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 1, 2020 3:00:49 GMT
Haha, I'd really rather not have the guards brought down on my head because my finger slipped and I accidentally killed the armor merchant. I don't think DA really lends itself to that kind of thing, even if they could do it. I remember accidentally dropping my controller in Oblivion once... the murder that simple mistake involved 0.0. The Butcher of Bravil was born!... because she tripped and her dagger went right through some poor sod’s throat. I have accidentally punched people more than a few times in Skyrim, or sometimes got the fuzz on me because I was in a hurry and had forgot to put my weapon away.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jul 1, 2020 3:16:52 GMT
I remember accidentally dropping my controller in Oblivion once... the murder that simple mistake involved 0.0. The Butcher of Bravil was born!... because she tripped and her dagger went right through some poor sod’s throat. I have accidentally punched people more than a few times in Skyrim, or sometimes got the fuzz on me because I was in a hurry and had forgot to put my weapon away. Or trying to fight a vampire and accidentally clipping a guard... Yeah, it can be a hehehe fun for a moment, but such reactivity gets tedious after a while.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 1, 2020 3:17:04 GMT
Yeah I've accidental yshot an all ybefoer in shooter games and had things ;like Game ove rscreens becauase of it.
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Post by githcheater on Jul 1, 2020 3:51:49 GMT
Yeah I've accidental yshot an all ybefoer in shooter games and had things ;like Game ove rscreens becauase of it. I-Phone?
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Post by abaris on Jul 1, 2020 9:46:33 GMT
I have accidentally punched people more than a few times in Skyrim, or sometimes got the fuzz on me because I was in a hurry and had forgot to put my weapon away.
And you think, it's more immersive to blast away without consequences? Well, to each their own.
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Post by Felya87 on Jul 1, 2020 10:45:38 GMT
Oh, yes... "immersive town"... Were people step on a torch and die burning alive because they can't do a step to get out of the "fire", and no one bat an eye
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 1, 2020 11:51:25 GMT
Yeah I've accidental yshot an all ybefoer in shooter games and had things ;like Game ove rscreens becauase of it. I-Phone? no
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 1, 2020 12:32:58 GMT
I have accidentally punched people more than a few times in Skyrim, or sometimes got the fuzz on me because I was in a hurry and had forgot to put my weapon away.
And you think, it's more immersive to blast away without consequences? Well, to each their own.
'Immersion' is a matter of perspective. I don't really know what other people think they mean when they talk about being 'immersed' in a video game, I don't play games to be 'immersed', I don't consider 'immersion' to be the Holy Grail of good games. In fact, I think it can be a detriment. If 'immersion' means a slip of the finger causes me to punch a shopkeep, which causes guards to come rushing to attack me, causing me to die, causing me to have to reload, which might mean I need to do a difficult dungeon or a boss fight again (which even with autosaves can still happen)... the game stops being fun. I might have even lost so much progress that I get annoyed/upset enough to put the game down. And if I put the game down, I might not pick it up again, because doing the same three-hour quest I already did last night is generally not how I like to spend my evenings. In instances like that, 'immersion' has stopped me from enjoying the game.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 1, 2020 12:34:29 GMT
I have accidentally punched people more than a few times in Skyrim, or sometimes got the fuzz on me because I was in a hurry and had forgot to put my weapon away.
And you think, it's more immersive to blast away without consequences? Well, to each their own.
Immersive doesn't always mean fun either. I wouldn't want a game that made me watch my character spending one hour sleeping as part of the game mechanics either.
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 1, 2020 16:33:44 GMT
I don’t think BioWare will make a game that would be similar to Bethesda’s game in regards of the topic discussed, but I do think that, if they’re going to continue with open world games, they could improve in their implementation (and regardless, I do hope they’ll build better cities then before. I’d have gladly traded off one major area in Inquisition for a better implementation of Val Rouyeaux).
We should consider that Inquisition was their first open world game, and other then the development problems and culture issues that plagued BioWare in recent years, they also had problems due to developing on 360/PS3 (which might have lead to the cut of the keep system, as it was shown the year before), and Andromeda wasn’t meant to be an open world game like DAI, but a procedural game like No Man’s Sky. They switched towards the world/s we got late in development.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 1, 2020 20:54:20 GMT
I don’t think BioWare will make a game that would be similar to Bethesda’s game in regards of the topic discussed, but I do think that, if they’re going to continue with open world games, they could improve in their implementation (and regardless, I do hope they’ll build better cities then before. I’d have gladly traded off one major area in Inquisition for a better implementation of Val Rouyeaux). Just one? I'd have happily traded both the Western Approach and the Forbidden Oasis, plus the Exalted Plains for a really good city-scape. I know deserts are "easy" - insofar as anything is easy in game development - but one per game is quite enough. And I just don't like the Exalted Plains
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 1, 2020 21:30:48 GMT
I like exalted plains There is also this great sound design bit happening from time to time in this area, and I really like it. It brings somekind of eerie feeling to the whole area and of course the elven nation history.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jul 1, 2020 21:37:53 GMT
I like exalted plains There is also this great sound design bit happening from time to time in this area, and I really like it. It brings somekind of eerie feeling to the whole area and of course the elven nation history. Kidding. You like what you like, right? It's not that I found them unappealing to wander and take screenshots in. It's just that I feel a lot - if not quite all - of it's content could've easily been subsumed into the Emerald Graves and made that area feel more dense.
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Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Jul 1, 2020 21:59:54 GMT
I like exalted plains There is also this great sound design bit happening from time to time in this area, and I really like it. It brings somekind of eerie feeling to the whole area and of course the elven nation history. Kidding. You like what you like, right? It's not that I found them unappealing to wander and take screenshots in. It's just that I feel a lot - if not quite all - of it's content could've easily been subsumed into the Emerald Graves and made that area feel more dense. I think that’s the divide... I don’t want more “dense”. I want it to feel real instead of a gameworld filled with stuff.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 1, 2020 23:53:43 GMT
Kidding. You like what you like, right? It's not that I found them unappealing to wander and take screenshots in. It's just that I feel a lot - if not quite all - of it's content could've easily been subsumed into the Emerald Graves and made that area feel more dense. I think that’s the divide... I don’t want more “dense”. I want it to feel real instead of a gameworld filled with stuff. Yeah. One of the reasons I love the Hissing Wastes (besides the gorgeous skybox) is because of how empty it is. It feels real, compared to some games where even in the middle of a desert you can't go more than 10 feet without tripping on some sort of quest.
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Post by The Elder King on Jul 2, 2020 0:51:42 GMT
Well, I do think that desertic areas should feel and be 'empty', or emptier, compared to an area supposedly more populated. There should be a logic behind the creation of an area. Making them all empty or all dense is not the right choice. We can have desertic areas that are empty, areas not very populated but with villages scattered around, and more populated area/s like a city.
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