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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2020 21:14:19 GMT
The only Harrowed mages I recall that she Tranquilized were ones who were part of Grace’s group aka actual criminals. But yes, she wasn’t itching for the Right of Annulment during that time, and if as far as she went was Tranquilizing mages involved in crimes that means that Orsino would be the only one punished because he was an accessory to a serial killer. So geez, I wonder why he didn’t help. Probably because like I said he cares only about himself. Meanwhile who knows how many women would have lived. Did you forget the start of Anders's Act 2 quest? It was a lot more than Grace's group. I remember that was Alric, not Meredith. Same with Karl in Act 1. I also remember that being when Anders actually praised Meredith. As well as Meredith actually opposing Alric's plan. If even he saw her as just Grey at that point, Orsino had no excuse.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 21:16:01 GMT
You mean when Meredith was already flouting the law against Tranquilizing Harrowed mages and even Dumar didn't dare do anything to piss her off. The only Harrowed mages I recall that she Tranquilized were ones who were part of Grace’s group aka actual criminals. But yes, she wasn’t itching for the Right of Annulment during that time, and if as far as she went was Tranquilizing mages involved in crimes that means that Orsino would be the only one punished because he was an accessory to a serial killer. So geez, I wonder why he didn’t help. Probably because like I said he cares only about himself. Meanwhile who knows how many women would have lived. Karl. For example. Probably Maddox, but no matter, he was harrowed or not, Meredith Tranquilized him just to show she can do whatever she wants. This was her reason to randomly kill/tranquilze Starkhaven mages. The random-effect means here: I can do, whatever I want. Also: if Hawke walks in the Gallows, s/he can hear many interesting things. Anders also said, and he had contact to the mages.
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 22, 2020 21:20:30 GMT
Did you forget the start of Anders's Act 2 quest? It was a lot more than Grace's group. I remember that was Alric, not Meredith. I also remember that being when Anders actually praised Meredith. If even he saw her as just Grey at that point, Orsino had no excuse. Tranquilizations cannot be done without the Knight-Commander's permission. They're also supposed to need the First Enchanter's permission, but they were already ignoring that part. Anders praised Meredith for not going with the idea of making all mages Tranquil. She was still using it illegally and disproportionately. We know Maddox had already been made Tranquil at that point because it's the same incident that got Samson expelled from the Order.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2020 21:40:56 GMT
I remember that was Alric, not Meredith. I also remember that being when Anders actually praised Meredith. If even he saw her as just Grey at that point, Orsino had no excuse. Tranquilizations cannot be done without the Knight-Commander's permission. Sure it can. All you need is access to the equipment and know how to do it. It is established that Alric was doing it in secret.
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N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 22, 2020 21:45:35 GMT
1. Don't help 2. Tell a Templar he trusts 3. Tell others he trusts 4. Tell Meredith anyway to save innocent lives because it's the right thing to do And that's with barely any thought into it. Orsino had plenty of good options. He just didn't choose them. 1: Meredith finds out on her own, blames Orsino and the Circle regardless of evidence, calls the Right of Annulment. 2: Assuming he can find one considering Meredith's cast-iron grip on things, that Templar needs to tell others in order to get back-up, it gets back to Meredith, Meredith blames Orsino and the Circle regardless of evidence, calls the Right of Annulment. 3: See #2. 4: Meredith doesn't listen because she's cuckoo-bananas, calls the Right of Annulment. Yeah it's like Orsino said it was getting to the point wher a mage couldn't sneeze without being accused of corruption.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2020 21:51:25 GMT
1: Meredith finds out on her own, blames Orsino and the Circle regardless of evidence, calls the Right of Annulment. 2: Assuming he can find one considering Meredith's cast-iron grip on things, that Templar needs to tell others in order to get back-up, it gets back to Meredith, Meredith blames Orsino and the Circle regardless of evidence, calls the Right of Annulment. 3: See #2. 4: Meredith doesn't listen because she's cuckoo-bananas, calls the Right of Annulment. Yeah it's like Orsino said it was getting to the point wher a mage couldn't sneeze without being accused of corruption. And people like him are the reason for it. It's hard to call Meredith paranoid when people like him are doing everything she thinks they are doing.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 21:52:06 GMT
Tranquilizations cannot be done without the Knight-Commander's permission. Sure it can. All you need is access to the equipment and know how to do it. It is established that Alric was doing it in secret. And Meredith didn't even notice the new Tranquils... Nobody noticed... nobody warned her... No. She supported Alrik, like MANY Templars in the Circle. Hawke killed many of them, in the Chantry, and in the secret tunnel. In the secret tunnel, they saw and heard what he was planning, and did not stop him, but they fought for him, to be able to do so. They supported him, they were able to die for him and for his crimes. How many Templars were with the same "values" in her Circle? It sure, Meredith knew everything. Also... Maddox.
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 22, 2020 21:56:44 GMT
Tranquilizations cannot be done without the Knight-Commander's permission. Sure it can. All you need is access to the equipment and know how to do it. It is established that Alric was doing it in secret. Differnceis though they're not allowed to do it without permission from the powers that be though
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2020 22:00:56 GMT
Sure it can. All you need is access to the equipment and know how to do it. It is established that Alric was doing it in secret. Differnceis though they're not allowed to do it without permission from the powers that be though Never said they were. I was just saying that Alric was doing it illegally without said powers that be like Meredith knowing.
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Post by sageoflife on Jan 22, 2020 22:03:22 GMT
Tranquilizations cannot be done without the Knight-Commander's permission. Sure it can. All you need is access to the equipment and know how to do it. It is established that Alric was doing it in secret. And in three years, at least, Meredith never noticed that there were far more Tranquil in the Circle than there should have been? And she somehow never noticed that many of those Tranquil had passed their Harrowings, which the Knight-Commander also needs to sign off on?
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 22:04:19 GMT
Differnceis though they're not allowed to do it without permission from the powers that be though Never said they were. I was just saying that Alric was doing it illegally without said powers that be like Meredith knowing. That's unbelievable. And if this true, that's even worse: the mages' life didn't matter anything for anyone. They weren't even a number, if she didn't know about them. Cullen in the Inquisition confirmed, that Meredith (herself) tanquilized mages for lesser "sins" that Maddox's was (a love letter). Cullen is a liar? Or just made joke?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Mithras on Jan 22, 2020 22:37:19 GMT
That's unbelievable. And if this true, that's even worse: the mages' life didn't matter anything for anyone. They weren't even a number, if she didn't know about them. Yeah, I'm having a really hard time taking this moral outrage seriously considering you've already said that summoning demons is justifiable even if (non-magical) children die because "this is a war."
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 22:40:54 GMT
That's unbelievable. And if this true, that's even worse: the mages' life didn't matter anything for anyone. They weren't even a number, if she didn't know about them. Yeah, I'm having a really hard time taking this moral outrage seriously considering you've already said that summoning demons is justifiable even if (non-magical) children die because "this is a war." For the mages, it's justified. Meredith herself justified them. The Chantry justified them. Cullen himself confirmed in the Inquisition, Meredith was a criminal, when he said, he Tranquilized mages for lesser "sins" than a love letter. Also: YOU mentioned the demons. And you can agree with the Annulment. Innocent children's massacre by a perverted "right".
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Post by Sonya on Jan 22, 2020 22:49:47 GMT
1. When Bethany says, "you could have to saved her", Orsino said: it was too late, and I believe he didn't lie (Bethany seems believed as well – she was sad, when Orsino died) – i saw the Templar end with Bethany. have just relaoded save (sided with templars). Almost empty room with some dead mages on the floor, Orsino standing, Beth next to him and one mage. Meredith "Just as I suspected all along". Orsino "Willing sacraficees! Man and women who would have died at your hand anyhow! (lier?) The irony is that until this very moment, I have never used blood magic." (lier) Meredith "Do you take me for a fool? One does not summon such a ritual from thin air!"(true) ...then conversation about "rite belonged to Quentin..."..."put aside his research as too dangerous - but things have changed"..."I knew about him, but kept a secret..." (lier + some truth) Beth "...You could have saved her!" Orsino " Did not know the extent of his derangement until it was too late" (true!) Meredith "Yells about the Maker grabbing her sword" Orsino "You'll die" - cutting his hand. The thing is Orsino is lying, lying all the time. Maybe somewhere he said the truth, but it is already difficult to trust such a person. We saw his notes to Quentin how he was thrilled. He wanted to know more. (many posts about it) According to the dialogue he used already blood magic and killed mages (how else can those lines be understood?) He KNEW Quentin ALREADY was mad (the dialogue itself proves it)BUT he, as people here mentioned, did not to stop him. All he did - continued smuggling books/writing notes/practicing those studies in his room. And then we see The Harvester (more detailed this time). "The irony is that until this very moment, I have never used blood magic." - lier, again, again and again. Good that Meredith did not agree for his help. Indeed cauzes some thought. No matter Meredith was insane, but she speeks the truth "One does not summon such a ritual from thin air". Constant lying. So returning to Beth words and Orsino's answer to her "He KNEW Quentin was insane". KNEW IT! But did nothing. Suggestions were here what Orsino could have done, but he only kept it a secret and studied it himself as even w/o additional info I still suspect to become a Harvester you need practice, practice and who knows what or even who else (considering what we have seen in details, fought with that thing, but killed finally).
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 23:24:33 GMT
1. When Bethany says, "you could have to saved her", Orsino said: it was too late, and I believe he didn't lie (Bethany seems believed as well – she was sad, when Orsino died) – i saw the Templar end with Bethany. have just relaoded save (sided with templars). Almost empty room with some dead mages on the floor, Orsino standing, Beth next to him and one mage. Meredith "Just as I suspected all along". Orsino "Willing sacraficees! Man and women who would have died at your hand anyhow! (lier?) The irony is that until this very moment, I have never used blood magic." (lier) Meredith "Do you take me for a fool? One does not summon such a ritual from thin air!"(true) ...then conversation about "rite belonged to Quentin..."..."put aside his research as too dangerous - but things have changed"..."I knew about him, but kept a secret..." (lier + some truth) Beth "...You could have saved her!" Orsino " Did not know the extent of his derangement until it was too late" (true!) Meredith "Yells about the Maker grabbing her sword" Orsino "You'll die" - cutting his hand. The thing is Orsino is lying, lying all the time. Maybe somewhere he said the truth, but it is already difficult to trust such a person. We saw his notes to Quentin how he was thrilled. He wanted to know more. (many posts about it) According to the dialogue he used already blood magic and killed mages (how else can those lines be understood?) He KNEW Quentin ALREADY was mad (the dialogue itself proves it)BUT he, as people here mentioned, did not to stop him. All he did - continued smuggling books/writing notes/practicing those studies in his room. And then we see The Harvester (more detailed this time). "The irony is that until this very moment, I have never used blood magic." - lier, again, again and again. Good that Meredith did not agree for his help. Indeed cauzes some thought. No matter Meredith was insane, but she speeks the truth "One does not summon such a ritual from thin air". Constant lying. So returning to Beth words and Orsino's answer to her "He KNEW Quentin was insane". KNEW IT! But did nothing. Suggestions were here what Orsino could have done, but he only kept it a secret and studied it himself as even w/o additional info I still suspect to become a Harvester you need practice, practice and who knows what or even who else (considering what we have seen in details, fought with that thing, but killed finally). I spoke about those lines, yes. I saw the scene not once. The best of it: he didn't (necessarily) lied. The game is intentionally vague here, to justify every view here. And I still think, he didn't lie here. Because of his characterization fits my explanation, and doesn't fit anything else. Such a man, like he –according to his backstory + everything we saw about him before–, can be a fool, can make mistakes (big ones), but not such an "I-was-cheating-you-from-the-beginning" villain-type. And tell me, why he would lie here? What would his reason to lie? Bethany's reaction was justifiable here, just like Hawke's. But that doesn't make true, that he knows about his madness when there are possibilities to prevent that. But the most beautiful in this: Whatever Orsino did or not: Meredith can't be right. Never, for a little moment. Meredith was never justified, not even in Act1. (And not even according to the Chantry's perverted law.)
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Now stealin' more kidz.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jan 22, 2020 23:41:44 GMT
*sigh*
This thread was nicely dead for quite some time, it seems. Some newer posts went by without much response at first, but congratulations to Mithras for playing the nercomancer and trolling people back in here, by first posting some rather pointless one-liner and then putting up some more as nobody apparently liked to take the bait. Of course that dragged Cailina back in, and since any word from him appears to be a "beserk button" for Hanako to continue what appears to be a personal grudge to me. And on it went... Now there we are again at this circular nonsense, posters dragging out confirmation bias and silent but very present read-only members going on with inane like battles. Welcome to the trenches. Which side do you sign up for? Bah.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 22, 2020 23:48:25 GMT
*sigh* This thread was nicely dead for quite some time, it seems. Some newer posts went by without much response at first, but congratulations to Mithras for playing the nercomancer and trolling people back in here, by first posting some rather pointless one-liner and then putting up some more as nobody apparently liked to take the bait. Of course that dragged Cailina back in, and since any word from him appears to be a "beserk button" for Hanako to continue what appears to be a personal grudge to me. And on it went... Now there we are again at this circular nonsense, posters dragging out confirmation bias and silent but very present read-only members going on with inane like battles. Welcome to the trenches. Which side do you sign up for? Bah. There can be no peace.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 23, 2020 0:53:13 GMT
The game is intentionally vague here what is so vague about those thrilled notes? Notes just on purpose put under your feet so you could read them and did not miss even one of them. Those notes say a lot about O. Listening Orsino after reading those notes is already disgusting. And tell me, why he would lie here? What would his reason to lie? a very simple human (elf in this case) factor: justification of yourself (what would people think after?!) even if you know you'll die. Legacy. Try to change opinion of others if Meredith was already insane, at least Hawke will be able to say "No! You are mistaken! Orsino could have done nothing at all to prevent that killer from dong his research! Don't you dare to think of him like that even if I had to kill that thing!" Such a man, like he –according to his backstory + everything we saw about him before–, can be a fool, can make mistakes (big ones), but not such an "I-was-cheating-you-from-the-beginning" villain-type. No, he was clever. Clever enough not to get caught all those years, clever enough to find a way how to get and smuggle forbidden books, clever enough to continue to communicate with a madman...can add more. Bethany's reaction was justifiable here, just like Hawke's. But that doesn't make true, that he knows about his madness when there are possibilities to prevent that. Of course Beth reaction is justified. The first thing she says "You could have stopped him!" A clever girl. The dialogue proved he knew Quentin was mad. He could have tried to do something to stop him instead singing him praises. even in her last state of insanity she is still capable to think of clever thought "ritual out thin air". That she was insane already in Act 1/2/3 or abused powers - who thinks what - does not mean by default such a person can not be right in something "never, for a moment" @ It concerns each person.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 23, 2020 1:38:16 GMT
The game is intentionally vague here what is so vague about those thrilled notes? Notes just on purpose put under your feet so you could read them and did not miss even one of them. Those notes say a lot about O. Listening Orsino after reading those notes is already disgusting. And tell me, why he would lie here? What would his reason to lie? a very simple human (elf in this case) factor: justification of yourself (what would people think after?!) even if you know you'll die. Legacy. Try to change opinion of others if Meredith was already insane, at least Hawke will be able to say "No! You are mistaken! Orsino could have done nothing at all to prevent that killer from dong his research! Don't you dare to think of him like that even if I had to kill that thing!" Such a man, like he –according to his backstory + everything we saw about him before–, can be a fool, can make mistakes (big ones), but not such an "I-was-cheating-you-from-the-beginning" villain-type. No, he was clever. Clever enough not to get caught all those years, clever enough to find a way how to get and smuggle forbidden books, clever enough to continue to communicate with a madman...can add more. Bethany's reaction was justifiable here, just like Hawke's. But that doesn't make true, that he knows about his madness when there are possibilities to prevent that. Of course Beth reaction is justified. The first thing she says "You could have stopped him!" A clever girl. The dialogue proved he knew Quentin was mad. He could have tried to do something to stop him instead singing him praises. even in her last state of insanity she is still capable to think of clever thought "ritual out thin air". That she was insane already in Act 1/2/3 or abused powers - who thinks what - does not mean by default such a person can not be right in something "never, for a moment" @ It concerns each person. "He was clever" is a very cheap explanation about that personality change, what needs to this. He has reason to not tell anyone, when it was already late – and I believe it was late, and he didn't know about Quentin's mental state until it was late. I already said, why I think that, and the game allows it. I also know the letter. Again: nothing about that discovery what Quentin achieved. Nothing about the zombie bride. And the Harvester as conception also very impressive. But again: seems it's irreversible, then Orsino was not able to practice – not mentioned, how he's able to gain corpses? He just go out of the Circle, and go back with 10-20 corpses? Or kills the mages in the Circle? (True, nobody noticed the new Tranquils, as Hanako pointed on that, because seems nobody cared about some mages... so: perhaps, Orsino killed the mages to play with their corpses, yes? Nobody would notice one-two-ten-twenty... or more mages..., ONLY, if they escape. Fun stuff...) What Bethany think about it at the moment, not a proof. Again, the game allows you believe, he knew about everything, and he's the mastermind at shows him caring, good person while he's a moustache-twirling evil – and also allows me to think, he didn't know about Quentin's mental state until it was late and didn't know about his real experiments, and he's just a real caring man, who's able to make great mistakes. Meredith can figure out some things, she was not stupid... but she never can be right. But whatever: she and her kind, can never be justified. Tragic villain – still a victim of the system, but also aggressor, and abuses her power in the system. The best thing about Orsino again: not really matters what he did: he's not the "mages", while at the moment Meredith's the Templars. Because of their status in this game. Which annoys me and my reason to insist on my theory, that Orsino's personality, behaviour and background. Simply the end can not be explained in another way. Without it, I wouldn't mind. He does not really affect my choice. He's simply no matter – just a senior-prisoner. But a senior prisoner, who tried to convince his people, that the suicide isn't a solution. This is why he took the position when nobody wanted under Meredith's terror.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 23, 2020 11:24:20 GMT
he didn't know about Quentin's mental state until it was late. did you really listen him? Not hear, listen? Orsino himself told he knew Quentin was already mad. Even if it was the first stage of madness he did not stop him. And that he was not at the stage 3 of his madness was very convenient for Orsino as he still could use Quentin reseah and admire his progress (see many-many above posts with notes and explanation what he could have done). Rewritting them won't change the fact that Orsino was lying and could have stopped a madman. Orsino may did good thigs, but there is a serious problem (that concerns not only Orsino): if a person lost trust by lying even once, it is almost ipossible to regain that trust. And Orsino was lying - thus trusting him is already difficult. People know his lied at least once in a very seriious matter, so what stopping him from doing it agiain? Such thougts will always be in your head in such cases. In case of Orsino including. Did good? Alright. But he lost trust, completly. he's not the "mages", while at the moment Meredith's the Templars yes, Orsino is not "mages", as well as Meredith/Alrik is not "templars". What Bethany think about it at the moment, not a proof. it is a proof that even Beth, who trusted Orsino and even was frustrated after his death, pointed out that Orsino could have done a good thing instead of thinking only about those research. I also know the letter. Again: nothing about that discovery what Quentin achieved. Nothing about the zombie bride. And the Harvester read them again, there are many posts above that matter. And yes, the Harvester. Orsino is an experinced mage. You do not need to practice some things to the point to become a Harvester to walk in that form in the Gallows. For an experinced mage it is enough to know how spells work, how BM works, additional info-research from a madman. The only thing is left - use that info to tranform into Harverster. Will that work? In his case yes. Knowledge is power.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 23, 2020 11:42:00 GMT
he didn't know about Quentin's mental state until it was late. did you really listen him? Not hear, listen? Orsino himself told he knew Quentin was already mad. Even if it was the first stage of madness he did not stop him. And that he was not at the stage 3 of his madness was very convenient for Orsino as he still could use Quentin reseah and admire his progress (see many-many above posts with notes and explanation what he could have done). Rewritting them won't change the fact that Orsino was lying and could have stopped a madman. Orsino may did good thigs, but there is a serious problem (that concerns not only Orsino): if a person lost trust by lying even once, it is almost ipossible to regain that trust. And Orsino was lying - thus trusting him is already difficult. People know his lied at least once in a very seriious matter, so what stopping him from doing it agiain? Such thougts will always be in your head in such cases. In case of Orsino including. Did good? Alright. But he lost trust, completly. he's not the "mages", while at the moment Meredith's the Templars yes, Orsino is not "mages", as well as Meredith/Alrik is not "templars". What Bethany think about it at the moment, not a proof. it is a proof that even Beth, who trusted Orsino and even was frustrated after his death, pointed out that Orsino could have done a good thing instead of thinking only about those research. I also know the letter. Again: nothing about that discovery what Quentin achieved. Nothing about the zombie bride. And the Harvester read them again, there are many posts above that matter. And yes, the Harvester. Orsino is an experinced mage. You do not need to practice some things to the point to become a Harvester to walk in that form in the Gallows. For an experinced mage it is enough to know how spells work, how BM works, additional info-research from a madman. The only thing is left - use that info to tranform into Harverster. Will that work? In his case yes. Knowledge is power. 1. Yes, I listen him, and he didn't say anything what wouldn't fit my explanation. 2. What Bethany said, isn't proof for anything. A possible outcome, as she thought. But she didn't know everything either. 3. About he used the Harvester: yes, he's an experienced mage, Meredith was not right about, he should practice that kind of magic. It was a desperate try. Of course, it doesn't come from nothing: Orsino was very educated. The Circle trained him... And just remember: he sent Quentin CIRCLE books, from the CIRCLE's library. *** 4. Orsino's not the mages, because the mages are individual civilians. If he's "the mages", then any random people in Kirkwall, who committed any sin/mistake, is "Kirkwall people", then Kirkwall people should be punished, collectively? But Meredith and the Templars aren't individual in this situation. The Templars are an army, an Order, and they obeyed to Meredith. So: Meredith is the Templars. That's not some unfair double standard, but come from their POSITION.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 23, 2020 12:04:09 GMT
1. Yes, I listen him, and he didn't say anything what wouldn't fit my explanation. Would have inserted even a video with his words, but can't for some reason (even pictures are insivible). 2. What Bethany said, isn't proof for anything. A possible outcome, as she thought. But she didn't know everything either. a person pointed out a very important thing. Proof (as well as from others), Orsino could have done differnt usrful thing. Instead he chose to hide that terrible thing and use that situation for himself. A proof that even a person who trusted Orino greatly, pointed out to his grave mistake. And just remember: he sent Quentin CIRCLE books, from the CIRCLE's library. yes, and? As Irving removed BM books from their library. The main thing here is that he smuggled those books. A clever man. Orsino's not the mages, because the mages are individual civilians. .....yeah....as I pointed out... But Meredith and the Templars aren't individual in this situation. The Templars are an army, an Order, and they obeyed to Meredith. So: Meredith is the Templars. Remember you wrote several times about good templars as well, even with names. So it still turns out Meredith is not "templars".According you your own statements. Which of them is correct...mystery for the ages.
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August 2016
catilina
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 23, 2020 13:01:11 GMT
1. Yes, I listen him, and he didn't say anything what wouldn't fit my explanation. Would have inserted even a video with his words, but can't for some reason (even pictures are insivible). 2. What Bethany said, isn't proof for anything. A possible outcome, as she thought. But she didn't know everything either. a person pointed out a very important thing. Proof (as well as from others), Orsino could have done differnt usrful thing. Instead he chose to hide that terrible thing and use that situation for himself. A proof that even a person who trusted Orino greatly, pointed out to his grave mistake. And just remember: he sent Quentin CIRCLE books, from the CIRCLE's library. yes, and? As Irving removed BM books from their library. The main thing here is that he smuggled those books. A clever man. Orsino's not the mages, because the mages are individual civilians. .....yeah....as I pointed out... But Meredith and the Templars aren't individual in this situation. The Templars are an army, an Order, and they obeyed to Meredith. So: Meredith is the Templars. Remember you wrote several times about good templars as well, even with names. So it still turns out Meredith is not "templars".According you your own statements. Which of them is correct...mystery for the ages. 1. I saw the video, and I know Orsino's every word, just like his letter. And the fact, the video and the letter allow my explanation, just like allow yours.
2. Yes, orsino chose to hide his knowledge about Quentin, with reason. And because it was late, so to tell it to anyone wouldn't help in anything, just endanger the mages in the Circle. Every mages, not only him. Big mistake, yes, but I still think, he didn't lie, and the game, including that part on the Templars side proves me, just like you. This is vague, intentionally. There are better options? Of course, better options always exist, as better situations. But understandable his decisionin the current situation? Yes.
3. Irving didn't remove the BM-books, but used them as trap, to bait the apprentices. Yes, Orsino sent books to Quentin. Whit this act, he become unwilling part of his crime (you can believe he was willing part, but again: Orsino was not kind of person who would support serial killer willingly.)
4. Yes, the mages are individual civilian, who were put in a cage. Any other question?
5. Yes, there are "good" Templars (still support an inhumane system, but their intention was not bad, and helped people, including mages), also, they re individuals in their privacy, ofc. But no contradiction here. I said: "the Templars aren't individual in this situation ". In this situation, they are an army, and they obeyed to Meredith and her command. When Hawke has choose, Meredith is the Templars, who wants destroy the Circle, with everyone inside. Mages aren't Orsino, but everyone inside... (I can say, if Bethany in the Circle, and Hawke sides with Meredith, Hawke agrees, that Bethany should die with the mages, and if believes, that Orsino is the mages, Hawke believes, Bethany is Orsino as well. And Bethany's Anders as well...)
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Jan 25, 2020 19:06:39 GMT
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1,352
December 2019
jackmorte
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by Sonya on Jan 23, 2020 14:42:07 GMT
1. I saw the video, and I know Orsino's every word, just like his letter. And the fact, the video and the letter allow my explanation, just like allow yours. if even so, in this case - period. 2. Yes, orsino chose to hide his knowledge about Quentin, with reason. And because it was late, so to tell it to anyone wouldn't help in anything, just endanger the mages in the Circle. Every mages, not only him. Big mistake, yes, but I still think, he didn't lie, and the game, including that part on the Templars side proves me, just like you. This is vague, intentionally. There are better options? Of course, better options always exist, as better situations. But understandable his decisionin the current situation? Yes. there were better opntions. Orsino knew Quentin was ill. Instead of stopping him, he gave him bsooks and wanted for his reseach. He HAD to stop Qyentin in the very begninning. And words "it was too late" just justification for himself in front of others. It was too late because he did nohing IN VERY BEGINNING, though knew Quentin was ill. So yes, it only proves the above opinion about him: he used an ill -madman person to get THE data. 3. Irving didn't remove the BM-books, but used them as trap, to bait the apprentices. Yes, Orsino sent books to Quentin. Whit this act, he become unwilling part of his crime (you can believe he was willing part, but again: Orsino was not kind of person who would support serial killer willingly.)
read the above. 4. Yes, the mages are individual civilian, who were put in a cage. Any other question? You just rewritten the same thing I had written. For who the hell knows purpose why. If you have any queestions - you are welcome to ask. I can say, if Bethany in the Circle, and Hawke sides with Meredith, Hawke agrees, that Bethany should die with the mages Hmmm, so it turns out like this: your Hawkes with such thinking about their own sister - an example of "good mages" - just let Meredith kill her. I see, My Hawkes protect my sister, an example of those responsable mages no matter who I side with. he Templars aren't individual in this situationthen all mages are also an army summonning all kinds of demons and turning into abominations. They are not individuals. Only Beth (as I know her, she is mmy sister and I want her to be as far as possiblr from Orsino influence).
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Jan 23, 2020 17:07:12 GMT
1. I saw the video, and I know Orsino's every word, just like his letter. And the fact, the video and the letter allow my explanation, just like allow yours. if even so, in this case - period. 2. Yes, orsino chose to hide his knowledge about Quentin, with reason. And because it was late, so to tell it to anyone wouldn't help in anything, just endanger the mages in the Circle. Every mages, not only him. Big mistake, yes, but I still think, he didn't lie, and the game, including that part on the Templars side proves me, just like you. This is vague, intentionally. There are better options? Of course, better options always exist, as better situations. But understandable his decisionin the current situation? Yes. there were better opntions. Orsino knew Quentin was ill. Instead of stopping him, he gave him bsooks and wanted for his reseach. He HAD to stop Qyentin in the very begninning. And words "it was too late" just justification for himself in front of others. It was too late because he did nohing IN VERY BEGINNING, though knew Quentin was ill. So yes, it only proves the above opinion about him: he used an ill -madman person to get THE data. 3. Irving didn't remove the BM-books, but used them as trap, to bait the apprentices. Yes, Orsino sent books to Quentin. Whit this act, he become unwilling part of his crime (you can believe he was willing part, but again: Orsino was not kind of person who would support serial killer willingly.)
read the above. 4. Yes, the mages are individual civilian, who were put in a cage. Any other question? You just rewritten the same thing I had written. For who the hell knows purpose why. If you have any queestions - you are welcome to ask. I can say, if Bethany in the Circle, and Hawke sides with Meredith, Hawke agrees, that Bethany should die with the mages Hmmm, so it turns out like this: your Hawkes with such thinking about their own sister - an example of "good mages" - just let Meredith kill her. I see, My Hawkes protect my sister, an example of those responsable mages no matter who I side with. he Templars aren't individual in this situationthen all mages are also an army summonning all kinds of demons and turning into abominations. They are not individuals. Only Beth (as I know her, she is mmy sister and I want her to be as far as possiblr from Orsino influence). 1–4. wasted time. You can read my answers I did already. 5. About Bethany as Circle Mage and Meredith's Annulment: At the moment, when made the choice, Hawke accepted the Annulment. Hawke accepted Meredith's declaration, that every mage in the Circle is guilty. Hawke accepted, every mage should pay for the explosion. Included Bethany. At the moment Hawke does NOTHING to protect his/her beloved, good mage sister, but helps Meredith to hunt her down and kill her. Hawke at the moment doesn't know, there are any possibility to convince her, not to do – only has a faded hope, s/he will not late, and Meredith will be merciful, what seems like a nonsense: Meredith seems lost her mind, she wants blood. And Bethany chose Orsino. (Also: Hawke is very disrespectful toward Bethany, if s/he thinks, s/he should protect Bethany from herself at the moment, against her will. Bethany isn't a baby, she's a 26 years old smart adult woman.) If Hawke chose the Templars, Hawke refuses Bethany, leaves her in the battle, where s/he's at the other side. Hawke fights against her. 6. The mages still individuals, who fight for their freedom. Also: how Bethany can be individual, but the others aren't? She fights against the Templars for her freedom.
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