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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2020 0:41:22 GMT
So, I just finished "The Dread Wolf Take You". Question (although it may have already been asked): Solas tells Charter that elves like her will remain after he destroys this world. I assume he means those elves to which he grants "Ar lasa mala"? "Ar lasa mala" basically translates to "I give you".
She asks for her life, he tells her she has it. He was just telling her he wasn't going to kill her on the spot, like he did the others. I do wish the devs would answer that question though about modern elves and Solas’s plan. In some dialogue he implies them surviving, while in others he implies they will be wiped out as well.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 31, 2020 1:52:27 GMT
"Ar lasa mala" basically translates to "I give you".
She asks for her life, he tells her she has it. He was just telling her he wasn't going to kill her on the spot, like he did the others. I do wish the devs would answer that question though about modern elves and Solas’s plan. In some dialogue he implies them surviving, while in others he implies they will be wiped out as well. Maybe Solas isn't sure who will survive? Like, it won't hit all modern elves equally? It all depends on what he plans to do I suppose. Also, one could argue that Trespasser saying "The return of my people means the end of yours." to every inquisitor could be another "Who is Mythal?"-type oversight and he shouldn't have said it to elven Inquisitors. Or he was assuming that the Inquisitor's people included more than their racial group, which is how I am interpreting it at the moment. Cassandra and Varric are just as much my Lavellan's "people" as her clan and Solas would know that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2020 1:55:01 GMT
I do wish the devs would answer that question though about modern elves and Solas’s plan. In some dialogue he implies them surviving, while in others he implies they will be wiped out as well. Maybe Solas isn't sure who will survive? Like, it won't hit all modern elves equally? It all depends on what he plans to do I suppose. Also, one could argue that Trespasser saying "The return of my people means the end of yours." to every inquisitor could be another "Who is Mythal?"-type oversight and he shouldn't have said it to elven Inquisitors. Or he was assuming that the Inquisitor's people included more than their racial group, which is how I am interpreting it at the moment. Cassandra and Varric are just as much my Lavellan's "people" as her clan and Solas would know that. Regarding the idea that it is just an oversight, I watched the scene again and he has dialogue unique to elven Inquisitors that still imply all will die so I don’t think that’s another Mythal situation. Though interesting idea about the people he refers to being modern life in general, though that still leads to whether modern elves would be wiped out or not.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 31, 2020 2:27:53 GMT
Regardless of whether what is to come will kill/negatively affect modern elves or not, it really shouldn't matter in terms of Solas' plans being any less nefarious. Unless you are an elven supremacist.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2020 2:32:56 GMT
Regardless of whether what is to come will kill/negatively affect modern elves or not, it really shouldn't matter in terms of Solas' plans being any less nefarious. Unless you are an elven supremacist. I agree, but it’d be nice to have an answer since the information is contradicting itself.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 31, 2020 10:54:00 GMT
Not the only one (I do too), but the transforming process afterward is quite different...and kinda random. I dunno. Jovis' transformation description still strongly reminded me of a broodmother. Except a centipede monster, obviously. That process fuse body parts from different things, it makes chimera, not biological mutations. Jovis was fused into a centipede, he didn't mutate into one. Just like the drake ended up with a darkspawn head or that other warden's eyes replace those on another creature.
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Post by Liadan on Mar 31, 2020 16:56:55 GMT
Are Teia and Viago the same Crows that we see in the comic Deception? The description fits and Viago says in the book that they had run contracts together being the most recent in "Qunari-occupied Ventus" but we never know their names in the comic. I`m just wondering as i think it`s nice that they used some characters from the comics (like Vaea in "Herold had the plan").
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Post by Solas on Mar 31, 2020 17:35:37 GMT
Are Teia and Viago the same Crows that we see in the comic Deception? The description fits and Viago says in the book that they had run contracts together being the most recent in "Qunari-occupied Ventus" but we never know their names in the comic. I`m just wondering as i think it`s nice that they used some characters from the comics (like Vaea in "Herold had the plan"). I think we're meant to assume so yeah
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 17:54:00 GMT
Regarding the pool of goo in HoH, I guess I'm the only one who saw similarities to the well of sorrows? The reason I thought they were similar was the reference to the wall paintings of the different supplicants kneeling in front of the same evil-looking Priestess reminded me of a corrupted version of Abelas and what happened at the Temple of Mythal. Varric even refers to the well of sorrows as a pool of magical goo.
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Post by Evamitchelle on Apr 1, 2020 3:40:52 GMT
Are Teia and Viago the same Crows that we see in the comic Deception? The description fits and Viago says in the book that they had run contracts together being the most recent in "Qunari-occupied Ventus" but we never know their names in the comic. I`m just wondering as i think it`s nice that they used some characters from the comics (like Vaea in "Herold had the plan"). They are. Viago is named in the "Early character sketches" section at the end of the collected edition of Deception.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2020 3:57:21 GMT
That means I can’t like Teia and Viago on principle since they killed Florian which made Francesca sad.
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Post by ellawyn on Apr 1, 2020 4:40:47 GMT
That means I can’t like Teia and Viago on principle since they killed Florian which made Francesca sad. But he's such an adorable nerd! He names his poisons! After puns!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2020 4:48:37 GMT
That means I can’t like Teia and Viago on principle since they killed Florian which made Francesca sad. But he's such an adorable nerd! He names his poisons! After puns! But. He. Made. Francesca. Cry.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Apr 1, 2020 4:52:07 GMT
That means I can’t like Teia and Viago on principle since they killed Florian which made Francesca sad. But he's such an adorable nerd! He names his poisons! After puns! And he kept the snake . That instantly got him onto my list of favourite minor Dragon Age characters. (Not that I wasn't enjoying him before that.)
Anyway, I'm glad that they were the assassins in comics so we have visual references!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 1, 2020 9:48:30 GMT
I dunno. Jovis' transformation description still strongly reminded me of a broodmother. Except a centipede monster, obviously. That process fuse body parts from different things, it makes chimera, not biological mutations. Jovis was fused into a centipede, he didn't mutate into one. Just like the drake ended up with a darkspawn head or that other warden's eyes replace those on another creature. All of the creatures were mutations, not fusions of two separate creatures. The hurlock walked into the pool a hurlock and walked out a drake with a hurlock head. But no drake ever entered the pool. That centipede body grew out of Jovis. Definitely a chimera, but not something that requires two individuals to work. It just mutates the base creature. And that seems akin to broodmothers to me.
Regarding the pool of goo in HoH, I guess I'm the only one who saw similarities to the well of sorrows? The reason I thought they were similar was the reference to the wall paintings of the different supplicants kneeling in front of the same evil-looking Priestess reminded me of a corrupted version of Abelas and what happened at the Temple of Mythal. Varric even refers to the well of sorrows as a pool of magical goo. They are both wells, both filled with magical liquid, and both could be said to contain knowledge from/of their gods. Wouldn't surprise me if its similar technology, just repurposed by Ghilan'nain (in this case). Instead of transmitting knowledge to those it touches, she attached a lyrium power source and set it to work actually applying the genetic knowledge it has stored instead.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 1, 2020 11:22:15 GMT
That process fuse body parts from different things, it makes chimera, not biological mutations. Jovis was fused into a centipede, he didn't mutate into one. Just like the drake ended up with a darkspawn head or that other warden's eyes replace those on another creature. All of the creatures were mutations, not fusions of two separate creatures. The hurlock walked into the pool a hurlock and walked out a drake with a hurlock head. But no drake ever entered the pool. That centipede body grew out of Jovis. Definitely a chimera, but not something that requires two individuals to work. It just mutates the base creature. And that seems akin to broodmothers to me.
There is nothing that says the drake body wasn't already in the pool before the Hurlock entered it. The Hurlock goes into the pool, a cocoon emerge, there's a flash of light and tada hurlock/drake chimera comes out just a few minutes after. This is not the slow body mutation process that makes Broodmothers. It's magical body-part fusions. The whole thing is also not related to the darkspawns according to the story narrator. Some of the creature described are 100% animals. There is a serpent/halla/Varterral chimera mentioned in the story for example. As the story itself describe it: " Each one a twisted horror of body parts assembled seemingly at random."
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 1, 2020 18:57:06 GMT
They are both wells, both filled with magical liquid, and both could be said to contain knowledge from/of their gods. Wouldn't surprise me if its similar technology, just repurposed by Ghilan'nain (in this case). Instead of transmitting knowledge to those it touches, she attached a lyrium power source and set it to work actually applying the genetic knowledge it has stored instead. Well the way the Well of Sorrows works is that the drinker linked with the collective memories of all the priests of Mythal, possibly even connecting with their spirits. Cole actually advises that you wouldn't want all those voices in your head, which suggests spirits are involved in some way. May be the magic prevented them from returning to the Fade and dissipating. So if Ghilan'nain had her own priesthood, it follows that they would probably have assisted her in her experiments and the pool is controlled by their collective memories. Thus the moment anyone enters it the spirits get to work transforming them in honour of their goddess.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 1, 2020 21:01:23 GMT
All of the creatures were mutations, not fusions of two separate creatures. The hurlock walked into the pool a hurlock and walked out a drake with a hurlock head. But no drake ever entered the pool. That centipede body grew out of Jovis. Definitely a chimera, but not something that requires two individuals to work. It just mutates the base creature. And that seems akin to broodmothers to me.
There is nothing that says the drake body wasn't already in the pool before the Hurlock entered it. The Hurlock goes into the pool, a cocoon emerge, there's a flash of light and tada hurlock/drake chimera comes out just a few minutes after. This is not the slow body mutation process that makes Broodmothers. It's magical body-part fusions. The whole thing is also not related to the darkspawns according to the story narrator. Some of the creature described are 100% animals. There is a serpent/halla/Varterral chimera mentioned in the story for example. As the story itself describe it: " Each one a twisted horror of body parts assembled seemingly at random." What you are saying is possible, but I don't think its conclusive. The centipede monster took up enough space to be mistaken for a natural part of the room that you could hide behind. A centipede the size described is not something we've ever heard of and would certainly be a new addition to the bestiary, if it existed. Or it could be the result of Jovis drinking juice with the "mutant centipede" genome in it and then it growing out of him to never-before-seen, gigantic proportions.
Every creature we read about in the fusions dwells underground and theoretically could have wandered in to the conga line waiting for access to the chimera pool, but we see no mention of other un-mutated creatures waiting in line or around the room. Its all chimeras in there, which means we either see the tail end of the line with the hurlock or that new stuff wandering in is sparse. I'm assumign the latter b/c I really doubt a whole, living drake was just chilling at the bottom of the well with no air, invisible from the surface of a pool all the language indicates is shallow enough to walk through, till the hurlock walked in. It might be how it works, but it seems much more likely that the hurlock was enchanted to walk in and the drake's dna was already in the grey goo and was magically fused with it.
" The whole thing is also not related to the darkspawns according to the story narrator. " I'd be interested to see where you got that, but even so, I didn't claim every chimera had a darkspawn in it??? I know some of them are all animal. It doesn't negate my point, which is that the description of having to consume the grey water and the description of how Jovis' fused body looks are both evocative of the broodmothers. Leading me to think there is some connection.
Maybe Ghilly was using the darkspawn as a template for her experiments. Maybe she was the one responsible for the first generation of darkspawn, as a result of experiments with the taint her girlfriend brought back from the void. I dunno.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 2, 2020 8:55:50 GMT
An Old Crowe's Tricks:
The opening to that book was probably the most quintessentially Dragon Age passage that has been written in the entire collection to this point. Just a fantastic way to get the story started and it did continue on from there. The way you essentially had these two characters, who looked to be entirely innocent and just there doing their jobs in their own way wound up being mirrored monsters of one another. Killers. One a Crowe and one a war criminal. Just it does what Dragon Age does best, speak to themes of diversity, how you shouldn't judge a book by its over, and with a healthy dose of trickster characters who aren't what they seem.
It also is interesting to know that this is now the second story where the Antivan Crows are acting more as a moralist institution rather then a purely mercenary one. That much like in the Wigmaker Job the Crow in question seems to be in one part on a personal vendetta. Also much like in the Horror of Hormack one of the ways this was expressed was when she defaced Magister Bickilius's campaign chest, though unlike with Lucanis what's her face (I hate names sometimes) was far more practical and precise when it came to her killing of the entire group.
Speaking of Bickilius though what an interesting character perspective he presented in focusing on his personal physicue rather then his magic. Though he did suffer for it.
Just a really well put together story with a really strong start, I have a feeling this will be the toughest one to rank yet.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 16:19:17 GMT
They are both wells, both filled with magical liquid, and both could be said to contain knowledge from/of their gods. Wouldn't surprise me if its similar technology, just repurposed by Ghilan'nain (in this case). Instead of transmitting knowledge to those it touches, she attached a lyrium power source and set it to work actually applying the genetic knowledge it has stored instead. Well the way the Well of Sorrows works is that the drinker linked with the collective memories of all the priests of Mythal, possibly even connecting with their spirits. Cole actually advises that you wouldn't want all those voices in your head, which suggests spirits are involved in some way. May be the magic prevented them from returning to the Fade and dissipating. So if Ghilan'nain had her own priesthood, it follows that they would probably have assisted her in her experiments and the pool is controlled by their collective memories. Thus the moment anyone enters it the spirits get to work transforming them in honour of their goddess. Or the spirits are bound against their will to do what the priests want.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 2, 2020 18:58:20 GMT
Or the spirits are bound against their will to do what the priests want. True but there is also that warning by the Evanuris which says that Fen'Harel is "a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits." I've long wondered about that turn of phrase. It doesn't say he knows about spirits but the People's spirits. Now I suppose if the spirits were bound to do the will of the People as slaves they could be regarded as their property but it could also refer to how the People connect with the Fade. If they all had some sort of split soul, so part of them was always in the Fade, that would account for their previous immortality and why they lost it as a result of the Veil, because they were cut off from their spirit in the Fade. Whilst the Inquisitor can become bound to the will of Mythal, this is not against their will since they drink the well in full knowledge of what will happen to them. The priesthood of Mythal seem to serve her willing enough and Abelas shed his former name when he entered her service, then changed it again after her death to reflect his sorrow. It is a very spirit-like thing to do, be known by what is your main characteristic. Elgar'nan's name literally means "Spirit of Vengeance". Whilst Solas claims most of the People were enslaved, may be that was from his perspective. There did seem to be an element of people choosing to follow a particular god so they fell under their protection. Then the vallaslin would have been used to indicate who was their patron. So those who had theirs removed would be considered fair game if that was the way their society worked. Also, in the memories there is a spirit of learning teaching the elves at the gathering and it seems to be there of its own free will. It also mentions how those who never left the Fade will find it easier to reach its depths and refers to them as brethren. So I think it is more likely that any spirits associated with the magical pools are probably there because its purpose reflected their own identity, either because they were the spirits of the priesthood or had always worked closely with them by choice.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 6, 2020 4:44:37 GMT
I got the book a week ago, just finished “Murder by Death Mages,” so I’m about halfway through. I have different thoughts about the stories - some I’ve really liked, some were OK, and there was one I did not enjoy - but I’ll probably have more to say when I’m done.
One comment I do want to make now: I think I’d rather send a dragon to go investigate a murder than Sidony. There would probably be less collateral damage.
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Post by Norina on Apr 6, 2020 13:35:02 GMT
Could someone fill me in on more about Hormak? I've just finished the third story and am trying to make my way through the book very slowly, because WFH is somehow even busier than usual Stay safe everyone!
Anyway, I'm not super big on the lore like some of you guys. Never read the comics (read the 5 Books Collection though) but I believe I know everything(?) there is to know regarding the three games. I've done completionist playthroughs several times for all the games and read all the in-game codices, and I'm wondering what exactly is this "prison" for? Am I missing something that I'm not supposed to by skipping the comics? Or is it new lore created regarding the Ancient Elves in preparation for DA4? Any substantial explanations for the grey gooey liquidy stuff or are there only theories? For now everything in the story feels like something out of Area X (not that I'm complaining).
Oh, and I really like Down Among the Dead Men, Audric in particular. Hope we get to meet him in the library and explore the Necropolis.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Apr 6, 2020 13:48:16 GMT
The grey goo is definitely a new thing, so you're not missing any lore there.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Apr 6, 2020 14:32:37 GMT
It is implied that the monster factory is one of Ghilan'nain's laboratories, though we don't really know the true purpose behind them. Also, I heard over on Ghil Dirthalen's youtube channel the theory that since there are 12 total such laboratories and there are 12 dwarves thaigs, with this one being under Hormak maybe the other 11 are under the other thaigs. Maybe Kal Sharok dwarves are said to be strange and unlike the Orzammar dwarves might mean they found the laboratory under their thaig and did stuff with it.
A newly presented thing seems to also be the yellow lyrium. I don't think anything presented in this story was previously discussed in the comics, though anyone feel free to correct me on this, I've read only summaries.
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