Tevinter Nights - Spoiler Thread

Yes, he is a deeply flawed character, but that is part of what makes him interesting. And although he does have ignorant ideas about the other races, he also shows, at least with a friendly or romanced Inquisitor, that he can change.

Well, I mean, I ascribe to the theory that Solas plans on dying (or something similar) when he completes his plans so...yeah.

Not what I was saying, but whatever.

based on the datamined dev notes...

This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth's story comes to a head -- she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods...yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone -- even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

Seems to me like Solas/Mythal have been planning their 'reckoning' for more than a few decades now, perhaps because they knew the veil was never a permanent solution. Mythal carried on through the ages because she knew Solas would need it, and he will kill anyone even her. If Mythal wanted to I'm sure she could have killed Solas if she wanted to because he was still weak after waking up. But she doesn't, instead she lets him absorb her power. It was her intent all along for him to rise as the dread wolf as far as I can tell. She even seems to be apologising to him for what he must do.


So I believe if pushed he would definitely kill just about anyone if it furthers his plans, even the inquisitor if they were to somehow go against him. Solas already has a poor view on the Qunari and I do believe the events in Kont-arr were fully endorsed by him. The only reason Solas begins to see Iron Bull as a 'person' is because he made a conscious choice to go agains the Qun. For most Qunari like Gatt though, their choice to stay within the Qun already condemns them in his eyes. Never mind the fact Gatt was enslaved and abused at eight years old and the Qunari saved him from that. As much as he hates harming innocents he also realises he needs to get his hands bloody to get the job done.

Actually, the Solas in TN seems to be a different person to the one we knew in DAI/Trespasser and the more I think about it the more I feel like it's got a lot to do with Mythal's influence.

I should have said Solas is different between DAI and Trespasser/TN. The way I see it is ironically, he was free to act as much as his true self during the Inquisition because he had no title/mantle to live up to. You're right we probably don't know who the 'real' Solas truly is because there is so much we don't know about him and there is no possible way we can understand his point of view. But at the same time him being a part of the Inquisition allowed us to see a side of him that would rarely be seen otherwise. To me the unwashed apostate hobo aesthetic is who he actually is/wants to be. That's why during the Inquisition while he's in the party he can be seen as selfless and caring for the common people because (seemingly) underneath the title that is what he truly cares about.

But when we meet him in Trespasser he is as cold and detached as he can let himself be because he now has to do all the grandstanding 'posturing' as he so puts it. It's necessary to perpetuate his image and he even kinda admits this when he says he uses people like pawns. He's self aware enough to know his actions are terrible but he follows through anyway because of his conviction that what he's doing is 'right'.

His evolution as the dread wolf is carried through in TN through the actions of his agents, who are all acting to bring back what was once theirs. Even the fact that he dresses up as bard. It just seems like a very desperate move to me, especially for someone who is supposed to be the terrifying dread wolf who can stalk people's dreams and kill them in their sleep.

As much as I hate to say he endorsed the events with Dumat's Folly, I feel like he is resorting to extreme tactics by any means necessary now. Although maybe it was his strategem all along. He is a calculating tactician after all who will sacrifice as many pawns as it takes to gain the checkmate.

His actions in TN is actually why I wonder how far his deception goes and how much of history is being repeated here, and especially if his Solas act was actually a thing he has done in the past before (and not simply propaganda spread by the evanuris).

Don't count on it. Solas wrecking the Viddasala plot to take over the south by stealth if anything would have strengthened their resolve against him. The Ben'Hassrath's role in society is to eliminate threats to the Qun, whether dissidents within their society or defectors on the outside, which they perceive as a far greater danger than the majority of the Bas. In recent years their role was also extended to operating a spy network to obtain intelligence to ensure their next major assault would be more successful. Had Solas not intervened, that would likely have been the case in the south, and given how successfully the Antaam are pushing into Tevinter this time round, it would seem it worked in the north as well. That was always Sten's strategy, so now he is Arishok, if he felt the time was right to unleash his forces, naturally he would do so. He didn't need the permission of the Arigena or Ariqun because military strategy is not their role and they have never not been at war with Tevinter.

However, the biggest potential threat to the Qun is the Dread Wolf, so naturally the Ben'Hassrath are going to direct the majority of their expertise in finding ways to neutralise that threat, rather than worrying about deserters. Solas would be aware of this and so he would naturally find ways to distract them from their target. He would also want to destroy any magical items that could be used against him, either directly or through researching them, so he would want to ensure the Davaarad was destroyed a second time.

So one or two Ben'Hassrath might lose heart but as a whole, they will be focussed on finding and stopping the Dread Wolf and in return he would have no problem with destroying any of them. This is why the Ben'Hassrath as a whole haven't been involved in the Tevinter war as they aren't really needed and their time is more usefully spent elsewhere. However, individual members were still being used by the Antaam (and by this I assume the Arishok), to check up on reports on those like Bas'taar who were not operating in according with the Qun and thus were a threat to it. Once Sarbraak assured himself that Bas'taar was indeed a threat, he eliminated him, just as the Ben'Hassrath always do.

Since the Ben-Hassrath were the first ones to rumble him, that’s a pretty reasonable ranking. Ignoring broader definitions of danger, an org that’s actively (and somewhat successfully) monitoring him is more likely to cause trouble.

If anything, that ranking makes the Executors seem even spookier, since they don’t appear to have done anything yet.

There is definitely something sinister about the Executors. For once I am wholly in agreement with Solas on this one; they are not to be trusted. The Executors seemed put out that the Ben’Hassrath were absent from the meeting: “Do the Qunari fear to speak with us?”

I think the “us” referred to are not the attendees but the Executors. I think it is also likely that if the Ben’Hassrath knew the Executor was going to be there, this is precisely why they didn’t attend, not because they fear them so much as they don’t trust them.
Look at the few words we get out of the Executor before Solas silences them.

“House Qintara fell with the city of Ventus. The Qunari may possess the Wolf’s idol.”

They are clearly studying events in the north and the previous annoyance could be because they thought the Qunari had the idol. However, it is curious that the Executor calls it “the Wolf’s idol”. At this point we hadn’t heard the Mortalitassi’s tale where Fen’Harel definitely lays claim to it or the Bard’s tale where Solas says the idol had found its master; we only knew that he was interested in it and yet the Executor was already identifying it as belonging to him. That may be significant.

The next bit of information the Executor gives concerns poisons that they know the Crow’s use, which suggests they have been watching them closely. They then go on to say: “This does not help us eliminate the Wolf.”

An interesting choice of words there; they do not say they want to stop him or prevent his plan, but eliminate him. It could well be that they have no interest in preventing the aim of removing the Veil, or alternatively freeing the elven gods, but just eliminating the Wolf from the picture. The idol is clearly necessary for whatever Solas is planning and I think the Executors know in what way it is vital. They were tracking it and thought the Qunari might have it, which was why they were angry at the Ben’Hassrath not being there. I think, though, the Executors want it for themselves. Also, once the meeting had established the Qunari did not have the idol that was the point at which Solas petrified the Executor. We do not know how they communicate with one another but clearly Solas did not wish them to learn any more.
The Executors are dangerous and if we end up working with one of them, I would definitely not trust them.

Yes, but I'm always wary about the use of words. They could have said stop him, they could have said kill him but something about "eliminate" makes me think they might only be interested in removing him from the picture rather than the threat from his intended action, because they wish to control the outcome. I think they attended the meeting because they were hoping for information on the whereabouts of the lyrium idol, which they intend using for their own purposes once he has been eliminated from the picture.