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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 11, 2020 14:44:48 GMT
How very true. Back in 2012, they said they wanted ME3's ending to be memorable and wanted people to talk about it. So...yeah, they got that, but I doubt it's what they wanted. They did say they were ok with it....but of course they did. I said be careful what you wish for and all that. We're still talking about it, almost 9 years later. Ready to go to year 10. We'll still be talking about it. Thankfully, we've got the Remaster to look forward to and new blood to add to that pool. Bang up job, Bioware. Personally, I'd rather have a new game than a remaster. MEA was mediocre, but the setting had potential, and a new game wouldn't be affected as much by any MET baggage players carry around. I'd rather get a new game too. I'd rather get an MEA2, as well, at this point. Even if a ME2 sequel, as was half hinted by the WIP picture of the next game, would be made, the last title in the franchise where it was still healthy, there is no guarantee they won't fuck it up worse, as is a tradition with all Bioware titles lately. It's not that the setting has lost its attraction for me, but rather that I'm not seeing Bioware delivering a satisfying experience any more compared to games made by certain other developers I don't really care for Andromeda, which is why I am giving BioWare a free pass to fuck it up to their hearts content. By all means, kill the franchise a second time. Hopefully, it will be permanent this time. If they manage to make a good DA4 I might get a little excited once again, but EA's business model seems to leave less and less room for what I'd like to see. I don't see why or how DA4 would be good. All I've seen so far is reused DA:I assets and the main story revolves around a mentally addled individual, that can't even rid himself of alopecia. I didn't care for him when he was introduced and I care for him even less now. I will not even be pirating DA4.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 11, 2020 14:57:49 GMT
Yes, this. It just struck me as funny that Bioware officially announced that Mass Effect is not, in fact, dead, and instead of getting the explosion of joy they were no doubt hoping for, they got: "Mass Effect isn't dead? Preorder cancelled!"
Seriously, can we all just be happy together for 5 minutes before going back to anticipating a bleak future for the franchise?
Well, I'm happy, and I'll most likely buy whatever they make if it's good, even if it's not exactly what I'm hoping for. I love Shepard AND Ryder and I just want a fun game, wherever it takes place.
Not sure I'll get the legendary edition since I'm on PC, but if it offers stuff that I want I'm open to getting it.
The online reaction is why I was doubtful of the remaster happening in the first place. I guess BioWare just hasn't learned their lesson yet or I consider the online community to have a stronger impact on the game then they really do. I do agree, I am not sure about buying the Legendary Edition for myself yet, but if there is something added that I think improves my experience with the games I will consider purchasing it since I still go back and replay BioWare games when there isn't a new release that interests me. What online community? It's fractured into pieces since they closed their own forum. You need people like Hrungr to collate info from the pieces strewn across the internet. When MEAMP was still a thing for more players here some would collate and share reddit and stream stuff to have a better overview of what was going on. That online community is mostly done for by now.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 11, 2020 15:50:21 GMT
The online reaction is why I was doubtful of the remaster happening in the first place. I guess BioWare just hasn't learned their lesson yet or I consider the online community to have a stronger impact on the game then they really do. I do agree, I am not sure about buying the Legendary Edition for myself yet, but if there is something added that I think improves my experience with the games I will consider purchasing it since I still go back and replay BioWare games when there isn't a new release that interests me. What online community? It's fractured into pieces since they closed their own forum. You need people like Hrungr to collate info from the pieces strewn across the internet. When MEAMP was still a thing for more players here some would collate and share reddit and stream stuff to have a better overview of what was going on. That online community is mostly done for by now. I didn't say the BioWare Online Community, I said the Online Community its not exclusive to BioWare social media. No you don't need a person like Hrungr for BioWare news it all becomes something major and reported on across the board. You do need a person like Hrungr for other developers for there might be one place that runs an article about an upcoming remaster from another developers, but with BioWare multiple places already have been talking about it and telling us what BioWare needs to do to make the games better before it was even officially announced.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Nov 11, 2020 16:02:37 GMT
Yes, this. It just struck me as funny that Bioware officially announced that Mass Effect is not, in fact, dead, and instead of getting the explosion of joy they were no doubt hoping for, they got: "Mass Effect isn't dead? Preorder cancelled!"
Seriously, can we all just be happy together for 5 minutes before going back to anticipating a bleak future for the franchise?
Well, I'm happy, and I'll most likely buy whatever they make if it's good, even if it's not exactly what I'm hoping for. I love Shepard AND Ryder and I just want a fun game, wherever it takes place.
Not sure I'll get the legendary edition since I'm on PC, but if it offers stuff that I want I'm open to getting it.
The online reaction is why I was doubtful of the remaster happening in the first place. I guess BioWare just hasn't learned their lesson yet or I consider the online community to have a stronger impact on the game then they really do. I do agree, I am not sure about buying the Legendary Edition for myself yet, but if there is something added that I think improves my experience with the games I will consider purchasing it since I still go back and replay BioWare games when there isn't a new release that interests me. I've seen quite a bit of positive reaction on the internet, just not here.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 11, 2020 17:08:44 GMT
I've seen quite a bit of positive reaction on the internet, just not here. I've seen positive reaction as well. But I mostly see mixed and a lot of negative. I don't see it being largely positive.
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Post by themikefest on Nov 11, 2020 17:12:22 GMT
No one loathed the ending more than me but I’ve gone back through the trilogy countless times since. I like the destroy ending seeing the reapers falling over. Just didn't like the lead up to the choice. I have played the trilogy numerous times. The reasons for that is it has replay value. The other is I like Shepard. I will as well. I will likely to a repeat of my playthrough in my signature. I will. If it turns out to be bad, than at least I can say I played it. The trailer that was shown gave me good vibes that I would like the game, but wasn't to be. The best thing I can say about MEA is speedruns. I stopped playing after the first patch was released.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 11, 2020 18:18:43 GMT
And the game currently in development isn’t? Let’s not kid ourselves here, however well (or badly) the new game in development fares is all that matters, not creating a full-blown do-over of a product nearly a decade old. Despite what a lot of the people complaining online want us to believe, quite a few people still actually love the trilogy as a whole. Even as I love 2/3 of the trilogy, the fact remains that ME3 torched the franchise. Evident by how ME:A had no chance of survival. The normies didn't care for it and didn't want to be a part of it, the zoomers didn't see anything they wanted and they didn't buy it, EA closed the studio and put the franchise on ice. You can make it a viable franchise again, it's going to take a lot of work and I doubt it would even be worth it, at this point. The investment needed to make ME pay off again is not a sound financial endeavour, with a high chance of failure. If I were EA, I wouldn't invest in it. We've had our discussions a bunch of times, and we will likely never agree. I think that the decline started with ME2, not ME3. ME2 sacrificed the ambition that ME1 had, and changed it into what every game was trying to be back then; a corridor shooter that is totally not imitating Gears of War. At least the characters were good, but the soul of the original Mass Effect was lost. But independently of whether you think ME2 or ME3 killed the franchise, in a way, both views are shallow. The problem is a lot deeper than that. Andromeda is as far removed from the original trilogy as possible, and they still screwed it up. Because even though a game like Dragon Age Inquisition was praised a lot, it has the same issues that MEA has. That means that it is not a single game that is the issue with the franchise. The issue is BioWare itself. Something happened to the studio that was able to create something like Dragon Age Origins, to then years later pump out an Anthem. The remaster is a perfect way for them to prove they can at least get a relatively simple task right. If they screw up even this, there really is zero hope for the studio.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 11, 2020 18:42:07 GMT
We've had our discussions a bunch of times, and we will likely never agree. I think that the decline started with ME2, not ME3. ME2 sacrificed the ambition that ME1 had, and changed it into what every game was trying to be back then; a corridor shooter that is totally not imitating Gears of War. At least the characters were good, but the soul of the original Mass Effect was lost. I agree with this, in part. I too would have loved to see the things that ME1 introduced carry over. I expected as much. But as ME2 is a good game, in its own right, I don't mind the sacrifices made for this title. I think the payoff was worth it. We can disagree in this. But that doesn't mean that I don't also like what you like, or don't want what you want. Perhaps I've not been as communicative of it. That I liked what ME2 did, doesn't mean I only want ME2 from then on. I do want the things that ME2 did well and I want the things that ME1 and ME3 did well; characters, interactions, exploration, I want it all. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be acceptably good in its execution. But independently of whether you think ME2 or ME3 killed the franchise, in a way, both views are shallow. The problem is a lot deeper than that. Andromeda is as far removed from the original trilogy as possible, and they still screwed it up. Because even though a game like Dragon Age Inquisition was praised a lot, it has the same issues that MEA has. That means that it is not a single game that is the issue with the franchise. The issue is BioWare itself. Something happened to the studio that was able to create something like Dragon Age Origins, to then years later pump out an Anthem. Agreed. The remaster is a perfect way for them to prove they can at least get a relatively simple task right. If they screw up even this, there really is zero hope for the studio. I don't consider repackaging a game to be a feat a developer should brag about. I can get 4k textures and even ray tracing for all 3 games on PC, with a vastly revamped game experience for ME3 specifically. I can even get Miranda recruited with extra unused dialogue. Why would I settle for the inferior remaster? I won't give Bioware praise for this, they aren't worthy of it. This is less than bare minimum. Modders have been doing far more for Mass Effect, over the past 9 years since ME3's release, than Bioware has.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 12, 2020 1:30:30 GMT
I don't consider repackaging a game to be a feat a developer should brag about. I can get 4k textures and even ray tracing for all 3 games on PC, with a vastly revamped game experience for ME3 specifically. I can even get Miranda recruited with extra unused dialogue. Why would I settle for the inferior remaster? I won't give Bioware praise for this, they aren't worthy of it. This is less than bare minimum. Modders have been doing far more for Mass Effect, over the past 9 years since ME3's release, than Bioware has. While I sort of agree, if they can remaster ME1 in a good way, it can bring at least some confidence in their most basic abilities, because at this point, even their most basic abilities are in question. The graphics (particularly facial animations) are already a concern, so there are some things that can be a stumbling block, even for a relatively simple remaster. And bugs would definitely be unacceptable. They will have to outdo the modders, otherwise it is of course a big fail. If the remaster ends up a disappointment, we can definitely conclude that BioWare is gone and no longer a viable studio. It might not be enough for you, but, if the remaster is done right, at least the new Mass Effect game will potentially be worth waiting for. If they drop the ball on this, I'm gone. I'd love a Dragon Age Origins remaster btw. That game looks old.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 10:50:40 GMT
Here's something that was an interesting dig from a poster in one of the other communities I frequent that I wanted to share with you guys. [a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160318001657if_/ "]link[/a] Ah, come on. Stupid twitter gizmo. Well, anyway, there's a tweet by Ryan Warden, back in 2012. Here's what it says. " Re: Pinnacle Station on PS3, the source is corrupt and we can't build it. Unfortunately, it won't be coming to the PS3 along with ME1." Since I didn't get the trilogy for PS3, was Pinnacle Station available, in the end? Will it need to be remade for the remaster or will Bioware just dump it entirely? While I sort of agree, if they can remaster ME1 in a good way It's a texture pack with reshade. I will be hard impressed if they manage to fuck it up. I've done texture work. I have yet to manage to fuck that up. Like, I can make a bad texture, that I understand, but how bad can you do? Now I'm curious, honestly. Bioware, please, show me the way. And bugs would definitely be unacceptable. I bet you that the AMD processor bug remains, at the very least. Conrad's flag from ME1 to ME2 is still read wrong and I'm sure there will be more problems. Getting stuck in game geometry will make a triumphant return as well. They will have to outdo the modders, otherwise it is of course a big fail Have you seen the mods for ME3? They make it like a totally different game. ME3 is going to be, by default, inferior. The base game is shit, in comparison, DLC or no DLC. The finale to your trilogy, being outdone by modders with no knowledge or access to the source code of your game. They can't outdo the modders, unless they remake ME3. And the modders said they're not adapting their mods for the remaster. I'd love a Dragon Age Origins remaster btw. That game looks old. Yeah.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 12, 2020 15:39:16 GMT
It's a texture pack with reshade. I will be hard impressed if they manage to fuck it up. I've done texture work. I have yet to manage to fuck that up. Like, I can make a bad texture, that I understand, but how bad can you do? Now I'm curious, honestly. Bioware, please, show me the way. Supposedly they will be changing the gameplay of ME1 to match either ME2 or ME3, or a combination of both. If it's just a retexture, it's mediocre and definitely not good enough. I bet you that the AMD processor bug remains, at the very least. I've only had AMD processors since... What? 2008 or so? In any case, I never encountered that bug. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. It definitely should be fixed though. Conrad's flag from ME1 to ME2 is still read wrong If they don't fix that, it's an epic fail. Hey BioWare, if you're reading this, DO NOT LEAVE THIS STUFF IN THE REMASTER. If you do, I WILL NOT PAY FOR IT. and I'm sure there will be more problems. Getting stuck in game geometry will make a triumphant return as well. Getting stuck in game geometry on the Normandy near Joker and EDI is one of the worst places to have that bug. So those should also be fixed. I am less stringent on it if it is in random off-world places though. Have you seen the mods for ME3? They make it like a totally different game. ME3 is going to be, by default, inferior. The base game is shit, in comparison, DLC or no DLC. The finale to your trilogy, being outdone by modders with no knowledge or access to the source code of your game. They can't outdo the modders, unless they remake ME3. And the modders said they're not adapting their mods for the remaster. Well, I disagree here. For one, I don't define or base my opinion of ME3 solely on its ending. I don't mind Shepard dying either, and MEHEM is not something I am interested in. What I am hoping for (although I'm not counting on it), is that the ME3 ending is adapted to be more like ME2, where you choose teams and who goes where and so on. It looked like they were going for that in ME3, but simply railroaded it due to lack of time.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 15:47:02 GMT
Supposedly they will be changing the gameplay of ME1 to match either ME2 or ME3, or a combination of both. If it's just a retexture, it's mediocre and definitely not good enough. We weren't told that in the announcement post. All it talked about was graphics. Well, I disagree here. For one, I don't define or base my opinion of ME3 solely on its ending. I don't mind Shepard dying either, and MEHEM is not something I am interested in. Neither do I. I think most of the game's campaign is absolutely terrible. Anything outside of Tuchanka and a few ME2 squadmate missions, Jack's and Grunt's especially, are mostly trash. The writing takes a huge nosedive in general, the Geth are for some reason interested in having souls, all of a sudden, the Quarians start a war with the Reapers on their back, the Reapers don't storm the Citadel the moment they reach the Galaxy, instead they divide their forces over various homeworlds, it's an overall mess and somehow, Cerberus has enough military power to challenge everyone's forces. Don't get me started on Kai Leng and everything about him, or the character suicide of Udina. What I am hoping for (although I'm not counting on it), is that the ME3 ending is adapted to be more like ME2, where you choose teams and who goes where and so on. It looked like they were going for that in ME3, but simply railroaded it due to lack of time. I remember, back in the day, several quotes of Bioware devs saying they would never do something like the Suicide Mission ever again. So there's zero chance of that happening ever again.
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Post by regack on Nov 12, 2020 15:57:57 GMT
I remember, back in the day, several quotes of Bioware devs saying they would never do something like the Suicide Mission ever again. So there's zero chance of that happening ever again. Bummer, it's one of the things I love about ME2 in the middle... deciding who, if anyone makes it from ME1-ME3, and how different it makes it feel with various characters missing. This is, for me, where having the trilogy really pays off. Each game has strengths and weaknesses, but as a whole it can transcend some of that, and you can play it/enjoy it for something... more? For me, I think this is what's missing with MEA... I think it *NEEDS* another game (or two) to really make it into something where the whole could be greater than sum of its parts. [/mindless blabbering]
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 16:10:36 GMT
For me, I think this is what's missing with MEA... I think it *NEEDS* another game (or two) to really make it into something where the whole could be greater than sum of its parts. I don't think people care enough to see where it can go. Like, did anyone really care or expect anything from Rise of Skywalker, after The Last Jedi? On the upside, it might retire the ME franchise for good, so no more flogging a dead horse.
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Post by Ascend on Nov 12, 2020 19:50:21 GMT
weren't told that in the announcement post. All it talked about was graphics. Hm... Maybe, maybe not; For many months now, our team at BioWare has been hard at work updating the textures, shaders, models, effects, and technical features of three enormous games. blog.bioware.com/2020/11/07/happy-n7-day-4/Neither do I. I think most of the game's campaign is absolutely terrible. Anything outside of Tuchanka and a few ME2 squadmate missions, Jack's and Grunt's especially, are mostly trash. The writing takes a huge nosedive in general, the Geth are for some reason interested in having souls, all of a sudden, the Quarians start a war with the Reapers on their back, the Reapers don't storm the Citadel the moment they reach the Galaxy, instead they divide their forces over various homeworlds, it's an overall mess and somehow, Cerberus has enough military power to challenge everyone's forces. Don't get me started on Kai Leng and everything about him, or the character suicide of Udina. I thought it was better than ME2, honestly. I still think most of your points can be explained. If Cerberus can make an upgraded SR-2 in two years, they must have vast resources. Additionally, they were recruiting innocents and converting them to semi-husks on Horizon. That kind of explains the vast amount of cannon fodder they have. In a way, it's not much different than Saren working with the Geth. That kind of lines up in indicating that TIM was indoctrinated and was getting assistance from the Reapers. Quarians were emotional, desperate and stupid regarding the Geth. They are going to make dumb decisions regarding their own place and their homeworld. The Geth were questioning their existence, and they added this soul thing to give a bit more detail to their rebellion. I don't think the rebellion started because a Quarian wanted a sandwich, a Geth said no and the Quarian tried to kill it. I don't see why the Reapers would immediately target the Citadel. The reaping takes years apparently, and they would have to go to the worlds anyway. Since their 'teleportation' to the Citadel was no longer viable, they came in another way, and started their job wherever they got first. Udina, I never liked him. He likely deserved better though, and we are left with too many questions, so I kind of agree there. Not that I think your points are invalid, but forcing you to work for Cerberus in the 2nd game by killing you and then reviving you is a lot worse in my book. It was clear at that point that they are willing to go to extremely illogical places to achieve what they want. Which by the way... If the reapers wait 50k years to reap organics, would an additional 3 years really be that significant as to need a Conduit to reach the Citadel...? Not really. So the fact that the reapers can simply travel 'normally' to the galaxy without any Mass Relay or teleporter is yet another ridiculous point added in ME2 and the Arrival DLC, that kills the basics. As for Kai Leng, well, in the game itself he's an empty villain that came out of nowhere. If you read the books, you know who he is, and he makes sense. Not that that's an excuse for his poor implementation in ME3 though. He's as shallow as he can be. He does fulfill his role of pissing off the player, although likely not in the intended way. To me, ME3's writing is the result of ME2's ridiculous points. It's why I am more lenient on ME3. It's a miracle what they did, considering what ME2 left behind. I remember, back in the day, several quotes of Bioware devs saying they would never do something like the Suicide Mission ever again. So there's zero chance of that happening ever again. That would be a shame. I don't remember them saying that btw. I do remember them saying that they wouldn't do the choice thing to the degree of the trilogy, because there were too many variables by ME3.
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Post by Guardian on Nov 12, 2020 20:05:23 GMT
I don't think people care enough to see where it can go. Like, did anyone really care or expect anything from Rise of Skywalker, after The Last Jedi? On the upside, it might retire the ME franchise for good, so no more flogging a dead horse. Those that walked away from TLJ with a favorable opinion on it did...seriously. I know I didn't but...mileage may vary and all that. For me, I think this is what's missing with MEA... I think it *NEEDS* another game (or two) to really make it into something where the whole could be greater than sum of its parts. Definitely needs at least ONE. Andromeda felt like ME1 to me - kinda flat and not sure where it was going, but decent enough to at least warrant a second game. ME gave us ME2, which was a major improvement. Could Andromeda 2 do the same? Who can say? It's worth a shot at least, but if a sequel to Andromeda does just as average or worse...then it's time to look elsewhere.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 12, 2020 21:33:33 GMT
I remember, back in the day, several quotes of Bioware devs saying they would never do something like the Suicide Mission ever again. So there's zero chance of that happening ever again. I remember it a little differently, but it might have been a different BioWare developer as well. The comment that I recall was that if they were to have characters returning they weren't going to put them into something like a suicide mission. So if a character could die they would no longer return in the game even if they survive unless its some meaningless cameo [edit: meaningless cameo is my takeaway]. That does make sense as well for it creates a lot of work that not everyone will ever have access to and also can cause the characters to get watered down while they try and incorporate a Schrödinger's Companion into the game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 21:51:15 GMT
and technical features of three enormous games. Define technical. That's so vague. Does it mean reworking the gameplay? Since it means reworking the gameplay, does it also mean across all three games? At which point does this stop looking like a remaster and more like a remake? The game engine is technical as well. The UI, inventory, lighting can be technical, too. Well, maybe it will. I am not in favour of it. I still think most of your points can be explained. Everything ca be explained and the answer can be as far fetched as Bioware needs it to be to justify anything. It doesn't mean it is believable. It doesn't mean it doesn't break immersion and, again, if the sacrifice is too big and the payoff too small, then it isn't worth it. For some people, it wasn't worth it. I was on board with the sacrifices required of us in Force Awakens. I was no longer on board with them, in The Last Jedi. I was not on board with the sacrifices ME3 required of me. Simple. At some point, I just didn't want to go through with it anymore. If Cerberus can make an upgraded SR-2 in two years, they must have vast resources. Aren't we told early in ME2 that the SR2 and resurrecting Shepard took out the biggest chunk of Cerberus' funds at the beginning of ME2? I don't doubt they couldn't get more funds in the year since, but to prepare and man entire fleets, in that time is highly improbable and Sanctuary is only a thing in ME3. So we know it only popped up in the 6 months since the events of ME2. Even if it started in the very next day of the end of the events of ME2 to get a full 6 months, they'd need a hundred thousand recruits a day. The math jumps to surreal levels. It's Palpatine raising, what was it in TRoS, 10k Death Star Destroyers, in 30 years? It takes a skilled crew to make 1 ship, 6 months, at minimum. And that crew would be several hundred people, to a few thousand, depending on the ship size. It's nuts. Quarians were emotional, desperate and stupid regarding the Geth. You know, whenever the Empire does something stupid in TLJ, it's because someone is emotional and/or stupid. At least, that's usually the excuse. You have a council of leaders, among them Daro Xen and Shala Raan, who would not, in their right mind, vote to go to war with the Geth, when the Reapers are at their back. This is character breaking. Not to mention Zaal'Koris would never vote in favour of fighting the Geth. And then you've got Tali, who gets a vote and she'd not vote for going to war with the Geth, after ME2. And let's assume, for a moment, that Han Gerrel is indeed dumb enough to start a war with 2 synthetic races, one of which already wiped out all organic life in the galaxy once. How does he get the majority vote? Event he Quarian people wouldn't be dumb enough to follow that order, under those circumstances. No. It's dumb. Not because the Quarians are dumb enough to do it, but because the writers require us to believe they are dumb enough to do it. No. And all this stupidity has the added insult of happening off screen. So we get NO justification for why or how any of this happened, it just happened. And I do understand at some point this conflict would have happened, but the circumstances under which it does, is fucking retarded. The Geth were questioning their existence, Where? Where does Legion tell us how he questions his existence? All we are told is that they have no interest in organics, or to be like them. And then we're at "does this unit have a soul". I don't see why the Reapers would immediately target the Citadel. Because that's what they always do. Control the Relay network, through the Citadel and isolate systems, to wipe them out more easily. It's been literally their MO since the Cycles started. We're even told that in ME1. Not that I think your points are invalid, but forcing you to work for Cerberus in the 2nd game by killing you and then reviving you is a lot worse in my book. Absolutely, but it worked. The payoff was good and the vast majority of the gaming community agreed to it. Bioware got it right enough to pull it off. That's all it needed to do and it achieved that and then some. As for Kai Leng, well, in the game itself he's an empty villain that came out of nowhere. If you read the books, you know who he is, and he makes sense. Not that that's an excuse for his poor implementation in ME3 though. He's as shallow as he can be. He does fulfill his role of pissing off the player, although likely not in the intended way. I don't care about the books, Jack bodies him in the comics and doesn't even remember it, the "related media" are often contradicting the games and even contradict themselves, sometimes in their own book. I don't care. And yes, he does piss off the player in the not intended way. To me, ME3's writing is the result of ME2's ridiculous points. It's why I am more lenient on ME3. It's a miracle what they did, considering what ME2 left behind. I'm going to say it again, Bioware intentionally left for ME3 the threads that they did, because they needed to pad the game with something. There's no fighting the Reapers in a squad based TPS. Bioware needed you to do the busywork, to distract you from that. It was a conscious choice Bioware made for ME3. Nothing ME2 could have done, would have spared us the ME3 we did get. It is impressive, perhaps, for a game made in 18 months, but nobody gets an award for "best game made in 18 months" and there are probably better games than ME3, made in 18 months. It wasn't the game it needed to be, evidently, or we wouldn't still be talking about it, 9 years later. That would be a shame. I don't remember them saying that btw. I do remember them saying that they wouldn't do the choice thing to the degree of the trilogy, because there were too many variables by ME3. They said that because the SM was a nightmare to work with and the fact that it even works, on a technical level, is a wonder to Bioware's devs. It's never happening again. Those that walked away from TLJ with a favorable opinion on it did...seriously. I know I didn't but...mileage may vary and all that. And TLJ left Disney with the greatest movie franchise ever dead and with no future. The Mandalorian isn't going to save Star Wars. It's not even making back its budget.
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Post by Guardian on Nov 12, 2020 22:09:13 GMT
Those that walked away from TLJ with a favorable opinion on it did...seriously. I know I didn't but...mileage may vary and all that. And TLJ left Disney with the greatest movie franchise ever dead and with no future. The Mandalorian isn't going to save Star Wars. It's not even making back its budget. No arguments here. I haven't seen the Mandalorian yet, but yeah...TLJ pretty much killed the franchise. Anyway...back on topic!
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 22:12:12 GMT
I remember it a little differently, but it might have been a different BioWare developer as well. The comment that I recall was that if they were to have characters returning they weren't going to put them into something like a suicide mission. So if a character could die they would no longer return in the game even if they survive unless its some meaningless cameo [edit: meaningless cameo is my takeaway]. That does make sense as well for it creates a lot of work that not everyone will ever have access to and also can cause the characters to get watered down while they try and incorporate a Schrödinger's Companion into the game. This is the first time I've heard of this.
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Post by NotN7 on Nov 12, 2020 22:31:09 GMT
weren't told that in the announcement post. All it talked about was graphics. Hm... Maybe, maybe not; For many months now, our team at BioWare has been hard at work updating the textures, shaders, models, effects, and technical features of three enormous games. blog.bioware.com/2020/11/07/happy-n7-day-4/Neither do I. I think most of the game's campaign is absolutely terrible. Anything outside of Tuchanka and a few ME2 squadmate missions, Jack's and Grunt's especially, are mostly trash. The writing takes a huge nosedive in general, the Geth are for some reason interested in having souls, all of a sudden, the Quarians start a war with the Reapers on their back, the Reapers don't storm the Citadel the moment they reach the Galaxy, instead they divide their forces over various homeworlds, it's an overall mess and somehow, Cerberus has enough military power to challenge everyone's forces. Don't get me started on Kai Leng and everything about him, or the character suicide of Udina. I thought it was better than ME2, honestly. I still think most of your points can be explained. If Cerberus can make an upgraded SR-2 in two years, they must have vast resources. Additionally, they were recruiting innocents and converting them to semi-husks on Horizon. That kind of explains the vast amount of cannon fodder they have. In a way, it's not much different than Saren working with the Geth. That kind of lines up in indicating that TIM was indoctrinated and was getting assistance from the Reapers. Quarians were emotional, desperate and stupid regarding the Geth. They are going to make dumb decisions regarding their own place and their homeworld. The Geth were questioning their existence, and they added this soul thing to give a bit more detail to their rebellion. I don't think the rebellion started because a Quarian wanted a sandwich, a Geth said no and the Quarian tried to kill it. I don't see why the Reapers would immediately target the Citadel. The reaping takes years apparently, and they would have to go to the worlds anyway. Since their 'teleportation' to the Citadel was no longer viable, they came in another way, and started their job wherever they got first. Udina, I never liked him. He likely deserved better though, and we are left with too many questions, so I kind of agree there. Not that I think your points are invalid, but forcing you to work for Cerberus in the 2nd game by killing you and then reviving you is a lot worse in my book. It was clear at that point that they are willing to go to extremely illogical places to achieve what they want. Which by the way... If the reapers wait 50k years to reap organics, would an additional 3 years really be that significant as to need a Conduit to reach the Citadel...? Not really. So the fact that the reapers can simply travel 'normally' to the galaxy without any Mass Relay or teleporter is yet another ridiculous point added in ME2 and the Arrival DLC, that kills the basics. As for Kai Leng, well, in the game itself he's an empty villain that came out of nowhere. If you read the books, you know who he is, and he makes sense. Not that that's an excuse for his poor implementation in ME3 though. He's as shallow as he can be. He does fulfill his role of pissing off the player, although likely not in the intended way. To me, ME3's writing is the result of ME2's ridiculous points. It's why I am more lenient on ME3. It's a miracle what they did, considering what ME2 left behind. I remember, back in the day, several quotes of Bioware devs saying they would never do something like the Suicide Mission ever again. So there's zero chance of that happening ever again. That would be a shame. I don't remember them saying that btw. I do remember them saying that they wouldn't do the choice thing to the degree of the trilogy, because there were too many variables by ME3. To hopefully clear a few things up, The Citadel if you played ME1 was the jump point to start the reaping and as for Cerberus killing Shepard? well It was the collectors, yes as for Kai Lang he was just filler, as for the Quarins it was 1 unit asking if it had a soul that started the purge/war causing Quarins to panic and yes I hated Udina wish I could have been able to to off him in Me1 if I,M wrong please correct me, just my two cents
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 22:45:46 GMT
To hopefully clear a few things up, The Citadel if you played ME1 was the jump point to start the reaping And we were told it was game over, the moment the Reapers gained control of the Citadel. You'd assume, then, that whatever it was that they got at the Citadel, would be game over for the galaxy races, regardless of the starting point. Why else would they need the Citadel as a starting point? Why have Sovereign running around for a century or how long it was, if any Relay could do the job? It is surmised that whatever exists in the Citadel, for the Reapers, allows for total domination. To imply otherwise, undoes ME1. Because the entire quest for Saren was, ultimately, to stop the Reapers from reaching the Citadel. And if that is inconsequential, then the entire game is pointless. as for Cerberus killing Shepard? well It was the collectors, yes as for Kai Lang he was just filler More or less. as for the Quarins it was 1 unit asking if it had a soul that started the purge/war causing Quarins to panic As established by ME3. The equivalent of Kylo Ren having a daydream of his dead dad forgiving him for killing him. It's awfully convenient, not to mention forced, in the penultimate hour. yes I hated Udina wish I could have been able to to off him in Me1 But Udina was not a Cerberus sympathizer and betrayed his own principles, because his son died for them. Udina was a bureaucrat, a politician and a hardass, but not a traitor. if I,M wrong please correct me, just my two cents No. I wouldn't call you wrong. Depends on which "interpretation" suits BioWare today to prove you right or not.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 12, 2020 22:55:07 GMT
I don't think people care enough to see where it can go. Like, did anyone really care or expect anything from Rise of Skywalker, after The Last Jedi? On the upside, it might retire the ME franchise for good, so no more flogging a dead horse. Those that walked away from TLJ with a favorable opinion on it did...seriously. I know I didn't but...mileage may vary and all that. For me, I think this is what's missing with MEA... I think it *NEEDS* another game (or two) to really make it into something where the whole could be greater than sum of its parts. Definitely needs at least ONE. Andromeda felt like ME1 to me - kinda flat and not sure where it was going, but decent enough to at least warrant a second game. ME gave us ME2, which was a major improvement. Could Andromeda 2 do the same? Who can say? It's worth a shot at least, but if a sequel to Andromeda does just as average or worse...then it's time to look elsewhere. Agreed because even i fi tdoesn' tdo tha twell i twill a tleas tgive Biowae ra chanc et owrap up the story and ti eup the threads left open by MEA
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 12, 2020 23:03:32 GMT
Agreed because even i fi tdoesn' tdo tha twell i twill a tleas tgive Biowae ra chanc et owrap up the story and ti eup the threads left open by MEA The problem is that it may be the last ME game Bioware gets to make. On the bright side, it may be the last ME game Bioware gets to make.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 12, 2020 23:07:34 GMT
I don't think people care enough to see where it can go. Like, did anyone really care or expect anything from Rise of Skywalker, after The Last Jedi? Sure. RoS would have gone over just fine, if it had been, you know, not terrible.
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