Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 31, 2020 2:43:35 GMT
Going by what I have experienced first hand and a couple of comments made by AskAGameDev over the years I think BioWare's biggest problem is they underestimate how much time they need to make the game so they put too much into the game's plan and then it falls apart. If they can fix that then I think a lot of the problems I see would be fixed because things wouldn't be cut or altered to finish the game on time. Well when you'er making a game tha ton averag ewill take between 100-200 hours t ocomplete a playthrough I guess it's understandable though. It's surprisin ga tleast for me how smooth their games run though at least on m ycomputers as I've baerly ran into any serious issues while playing them. MEA is probably the only one where I have ran into any kind of issues but thanks to the patches mos tof them have been removed now as most of them were occuring around launch time. Its been a long term problem going back to even before Jade Empire.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 3:26:21 GMT
Well when you'er making a game tha ton averag ewill take between 100-200 hours t ocomplete a playthrough I guess it's understandable though. It's surprisin ga tleast for me how smooth their games run though at least on m ycomputers as I've baerly ran into any serious issues while playing them. MEA is probably the only one where I have ran into any kind of issues but thanks to the patches mos tof them have been removed now as most of them were occuring around launch time. Its been a long term problem going back to even before Jade Empire. To b e fair though it doesn't really show to omuch in their games so in theend I don' t think i tmatters that much. Especially as my top 3 favouriet games atm ae rBiowae rgames and Ironically games I'v ebeen playing lately ME2 ME3 and DAI.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jul 31, 2020 9:18:01 GMT
There's too many dangling threads in Andromeda for my tastes.
Besides, part of what makes Mass Effect special for me is the trilogy format. I'd really like to continue the series, even if the first "book" in this set had some issues.
I've dealt with worse from Terry Brooks, damnit!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 10:54:11 GMT
There's too many dangling threads in Andromeda for my tastes. Besides, part of what makes Mass Effect special for me is the trilogy format. I'd really like to continue the series, even if the first "book" in this set had some issues. I've dealt with worse from Terry Brooks, damnit! Yeah therer's too many unanaswered questions fror Bioware to jus tabandon it. That's what makes me think it's moer of a part 1 tbh. Yes we delivered a settback to the Kett but that' s the only big thing Rydre achieved in that firs tgame that and establishing friendly first contact with the Angara. But outside of that there's a lot of questions there that need answers to match.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 11:55:30 GMT
Despite the fact that I had A LOT of issues with Andromeda, I'd also lean toward an Andromeda sequel. If anyone is interested, I explained why in this post a while ago. While I applaud your work, I don't agree with it. Ultimately, a future Andromeda is not a crowdpleaser, in its basic inception. The original failed to garner anything past the very dedicated fans and some that fell for the marketing, who saw little support past release and a very underwhelming final product. Again, promising that the next game will be better, is a hollow promise. Maybe it will be, two years down the line and most people will buy it on sale, some time down the line. It is not a day 1 buy, it is not even a "week one" buy, or "month one" buy. And if it's none of these, why would EA care? Why invest in the game? Why support the game? If the franchise is not viable, why keep making it? And if it is a sequel to Andromeda, at least it can wrap up some threads for the fans, but at what cost does that have to come? And will the game even be made to be concluded in the second title, to afford the fanbase a decent closure, before the franchise gets put "on ice" again? This time permanently.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 12:20:16 GMT
Despite the fact that I had A LOT of issues with Andromeda, I'd also lean toward an Andromeda sequel. If anyone is interested, I explained why in this post a while ago. While I applaud your work, I don't agree with it. Ultimately, a future Andromeda is not a crowdpleaser, in its basic inception. The original failed to garner anything past the very dedicated fans and some that fell for the marketing, who saw little support past release and a very underwhelming final product. Again, promising that the next game will be better, is a hollow promise. Maybe it will be, two years down the line and most people will buy it on sale, some time down the line. It is not a day 1 buy, it is not even a "week one" buy, or "month one" buy. And if it's none of these, why would EA care? Why invest in the game? Why support the game? If the franchise is not viable, why keep making it? And if it is a sequel to Andromeda, at least it can wrap up some threads for the fans, but at what cost does that have to come? And will the game even be made to be concluded in the second title, to afford the fanbase a decent closure, before the franchise gets put "on ice" again? This time permanently. Maybe not for you but for others it could be if it's done right.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 12:33:26 GMT
Maybe not for you but for others it could be if it's done right. Like I said, if it sells 4 million copies, 4 months after release, when the game is on retail for $20, that's not a success. It is not what EA wants, it is not a "day 1 buy", or a "week one buy", or even a "month one buy". It's designed to be a bargain bin title, unless Bioware does something unprecedented with it. But why would EA invest something like that, in a title that wouldn't be able to stand on its own? It's not the RoI monster that EA wants it to be.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 12:49:53 GMT
Maybe not for you but for others it could be if it's done right. Like I said, if it sells 4 million copies, 4 months after release, when the game is on retail for $20, that's not a success. It is not what EA wants, it is not a "day 1 buy", or a "week one buy", or even a "month one buy". It's designed to be a bargain bin title, unless Bioware does something unprecedented with it. But why would EA invest something like that, in a title that wouldn't be able to stand on its own? It's not the RoI monster that EA wants it to be. DA2 wa sconsidered a failure to ohoweve rit' ssequel DAI managed to win severa lgam eof th eyear awards so MEA shouldn't be quite so easil ydismissed. Also RPG's on the whole don' tsell as much as say games like FIFA and COD and I'm suer EA knows this s oshouldn' texpec tsuch figures if they do then the ywill always be disappointed with Bioware's sales.Bioware and their RPG's have a niche market. Sales numbers shouldn't matter s omuch appealing to the fans they have should. For me continuing MEA's story is the best way for them to do that imo. Abandoning MEA would just create more division.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 13:07:50 GMT
DA2 wa sconsidered a failure to ohoweve rit' ssequel DAI managed to win severa lgam eof th eyear awards so MEA shouldn't be quite so easil ydismissed Well, I'd comment on DA:I's public reception and exaggerated market success, but that's another story. Also RPG's on the whole don' tsell as much as say games like FIFA and COD Untrue. It's only Bioware's recent games that don't, while RPGs from other studios generally outdo the 2-3 million copies Bioware sells, per game. On a good month. I'm suer EA knows this s oshouldn' texpec tsuch figures Andromeda's figures were projected in the 6-9 million range. So they absolutely expect such figures. Maybe they will expect less than 2 with the next one, but that is not a good thing for Bioware. if they do then the ywill always be disappointed with Bioware's sales Then maybe Bioware is not such a good investment. That is not a positive thing. Bioware and their RPG's have a niche market No, they don't. I'd argue they've missed that niche as well. They outright burnt it. Now Larian sells those copies. Sales numbers shouldn't matter s omuch Sales should matter, in their segment. EA is not a charity. They are not in the business to lose money. appealing to the fans they have should So what about the fans they lost with ME3 or ME:A? Do you think ME:A generated more fans than it lost? What about ME3? If ME:A was more successful, why did it sell less? Why did EA cancel all future Andromeda projects after its release? Is the point to shrink the fanbase further to a less than the already unsustainable population? For me continuing MEA's story is the best way for them to do that imo. To close shop? Absolutely. Abandoning MEA would just create more division. Division between the two people left is not a worrisome loss. I-I mean ... I love Andromeda. Andromeda is the best game ever. I love the crew, I love the planets, the gameplay, the jetpack, I love Spudvi, I love Cora. I love the Nexus, the Tempest and the Nomad. Uh ... Kalo is the best pilot in all the galaxy, Lexi the cutest nurse, the Kett are the best antagonists and I can't wait for Andromeda 2. I am sure Andromeda 2 will sell gangbusters and I can't wait to explore the Angara even more. Yeah. That's what I mean.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 31, 2020 13:40:43 GMT
DA2 wa sconsidered a failure to ohoweve rit' ssequel DAI managed to win severa lgam eof th eyear awards so MEA shouldn't be quite so easil ydismissed Well, I'd comment on DA:I's public reception and exaggerated market success, but that's another story. Also RPG's on the whole don' tsell as much as say games like FIFA and COD Untrue. It's only Bioware's recent games that don't, while RPGs from other studios generally outdo the 2-3 million copies Bioware sells, per game. On a good month. I'm suer EA knows this s oshouldn' texpec tsuch figures Andromeda's figures were projected in the 6-9 million range. So they absolutely expect such figures. Maybe they will expect less than 2 with the next one, but that is not a good thing for Bioware. if they do then the ywill always be disappointed with Bioware's sales Then maybe Bioware is not such a good investment. That is not a positive thing. Bioware and their RPG's have a niche market No, they don't. I'd argue they've missed that niche as well. They outright burnt it. Now Larian sells those copies. Sales numbers shouldn't matter s omuch Sales should matter, in their segment. EA is not a charity. They are not in the business to lose money. appealing to the fans they have should So what about the fans they lost with ME3 or ME:A? Do you think ME:A generated more fans than it lost? What about ME3? If ME:A was more successful, why did it sell less? Why did EA cancel all future Andromeda projects after its release? Is the point to shrink the fanbase further to a less than the already unsustainable population? For me continuing MEA's story is the best way for them to do that imo. To close shop? Absolutely. Abandoning MEA would just create more division. Division between the two people left is not a worrisome loss. I-I mean ... I love Andromeda. Andromeda is the best game ever. I love the crew, I love the planets, the gameplay, the jetpack, I love Spudvi, I love Cora. I love the Nexus, the Tempest and the Nomad. Uh ... Kalo is the best pilot in all the galaxy, Lexi the cutest nurse, the Kett are the best antagonists and I can't wait for Andromeda 2. I am sure Andromeda 2 will sell gangbusters and I can't wait to explore the Angara even more. Yeah. That's what I mean. The thing is there is no official evidence to really prove anything you are claiming about Andromeda. We do know that BioWare Montreal closed and there wasn't DLC, but overall sales numbers or when they had those sales isn't an official number. Just like my stance that BioWare Montreal and DLC was doomed before the game even released for they never filled leadership positions during development, they just moved people temporarily into the studio and were starting the procedures to close the studio. There is nothing to prove that I am not correct in my theories either, but it also fits within what we as outsiders were seeing. Unless you can backup what you are saying with real sales numbers and not just assumptions based on some facts its not a complete picture, so you can make all the guesses you want about how successful or not successful Andromeda was your not anymore accurate then people wanting to stay in Andromeda.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 13:56:30 GMT
Well, I'd comment on DA:I's public reception and exaggerated market success, but that's another story. Untrue. It's only Bioware's recent games that don't, while RPGs from other studios generally outdo the 2-3 million copies Bioware sells, per game. On a good month. Andromeda's figures were projected in the 6-9 million range. So they absolutely expect such figures. Maybe they will expect less than 2 with the next one, but that is not a good thing for Bioware. Then maybe Bioware is not such a good investment. That is not a positive thing. No, they don't. I'd argue they've missed that niche as well. They outright burnt it. Now Larian sells those copies. Sales should matter, in their segment. EA is not a charity. They are not in the business to lose money. So what about the fans they lost with ME3 or ME:A? Do you think ME:A generated more fans than it lost? What about ME3? If ME:A was more successful, why did it sell less? Why did EA cancel all future Andromeda projects after its release? Is the point to shrink the fanbase further to a less than the already unsustainable population? To close shop? Absolutely. Division between the two people left is not a worrisome loss. I-I mean ... I love Andromeda. Andromeda is the best game ever. I love the crew, I love the planets, the gameplay, the jetpack, I love Spudvi, I love Cora. I love the Nexus, the Tempest and the Nomad. Uh ... Kalo is the best pilot in all the galaxy, Lexi the cutest nurse, the Kett are the best antagonists and I can't wait for Andromeda 2. I am sure Andromeda 2 will sell gangbusters and I can't wait to explore the Angara even more. Yeah. That's what I mean. The thing is there is no official evidence to really prove anything you are claiming about Andromeda. We do know that BioWare Montreal closed and there wasn't DLC, but overall sales numbers or when they had those sales isn't an official number. Just like my stance that BioWare Montreal and DLC was doomed before the game even released for they never filled leadership positions during development, they just moved people temporarily into the studio and were starting the procedures to close the studio. There is nothing to prove that I am not correct in my theories either, but it also fits within what we as outsiders were seeing. Unless you can backup what you are saying with real sales numbers and not just assumptions based on some facts its not a complete picture, so you can make all the guesses you want about how successful or not successful Andromeda was your not anymore accurate then people wanting to stay in Andromeda. Agreed there iswn't
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2020 13:58:32 GMT
Maybe not for you but for others it could be if it's done right. So it wasn't done right the first time? Why would the second time be done right? Who would be the one to decide if it's done right? DA2 wa sconsidered a failure to ohoweve rit' ssequel DAI managed to win severa lgam eof th eyear awards so MEA shouldn't be quite so easil ydismissed. I like DA2 and DAI. How different would DA2 have been if given 5 years like MEA was given? MEA may not be dismissed, but I would dismiss the characters since I've read/heard the top complaint being they were boring, dull. A sequel could happen, but I see it happening with new characters. Would it? Time will answer that question.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 14:13:02 GMT
The thing is there is no official evidence to really prove anything you are claiming about Andromeda There is no official evidence to prove otherwise, though. We do know that BioWare Montreal closed and there wasn't DLC, but overall sales numbers or when they had those sales isn't an official number And you're never going to get it. So is it safe to assume that Andromeda sold so well, that it basically concluded the sales of the franchise? That EA simply said "we don't want to make more money"? In what world, in what parallel universe would that be true? Just like my stance that BioWare Montreal and DLC was doomed before the game even released for they never filled leadership positions during development, they just moved people temporarily into the studio and were starting the procedures to close the studio According to the Schreier article, Montreal expected to jump right into the next title, when the cancelation order came, so no, they weren't expecting procedures to close the studio. Why would they? Why would anyone working for Montreal expect that? What reason would they have? There is nothing to prove that I am not correct in my theories either We've had multiple sources saying the contrary. Schreier's article being the most famous one. but it also fits within what we as outsiders were seeing I can't attest to what you are seeing. Unless you can backup what you are saying with real sales numbers and not just assumptions based on some facts its not a complete picture To see the cancelation of a franchise, the closure of a studio, estimates of 2.5 million copies sold in an entire quarter, when it expected to sell 3 million in its first week and for EA to expect that number, meant it needed to hit a milestone within that timeframe, for a reason, it means that no, it wasn't successful. so you can make all the guesses you want about how successful or not successful Andromeda was your not anymore accurate then people wanting to stay in Andromeda. Regardless of what you consider accurate, one side is accurate. One side reflects the truth. Now, I am sure some people here will tell you that Andromeda made all the money it needed, which is why it was canceled, I am sure this is how EA operates on a regular basis, after all, that because Motive, which was an entirely different studio, fully staffed as well, but needed more help with Battlefront, it was completely on the table to just shut down Bioware Montreal and move everyone over. I am sure that is just standard operational procedure, right? You just merge shit, as you like. Maybe we can merge EA Texas with EA Kuala Lumpur tomorrow, just because. It doesn't make sense. There's no reason why any of these things would have happened for any other way. If you can give me a plausible explanation, then maybe, but we have many industry sources claiming otherwise, veteran market analysts claiming otherwise and just 10 guys on a Bioware forum calling it a viable success with a guaranteed future. It makes one of the two demographics sounds absurd.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 31, 2020 14:22:13 GMT
Don't really care for a MET sequel (chances are that the Green would most likely become canon).
Not really interested in a MEA sequel (unless Ryder is replaced by someone who is not a man/woman sized child).
A MEA reboot could be interesting, if Bio does away with the stupidity form MEA.
And a Prequel sounds dull and boring, so a dead no from me.
That's me two cents on the question.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 14:52:43 GMT
Maybe not for you but for others it could be if it's done right. So it wasn't done right the first time? Why would the second time be done right? Who would be the one to decide if it's done right? DA2 wa sconsidered a failure to ohoweve rit' ssequel DAI managed to win severa lgam eof th eyear awards so MEA shouldn't be quite so easil ydismissed. I like DA2 and DAI. How different would DA2 have been if given 5 years like MEA was given? MEA may not be dismissed, but I would dismiss the characters since I've read/heard the top complaint being they were boring, dull. A sequel could happen, but I see it happening with new characters. Would it? Time will answer that question. I know I wouldn't get the nex tgam eunless it continued the story anyway
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 17:01:18 GMT
I know I wouldn't get the nex tgam eunless it continued the story anyway How many people do you think would buy the next game if it did continue the story? If they didn't like the first part, why would they return for the second? Would you go see a sequel to Ghostbusters (2016) after hating the first one? A sequel to Terminator: Dark Fate? A sequel to Birds of Prey? Why? The people that did care weren't enough to sustain them. Do you think a hypothetical TLoU3 would be as successful as TLoU/TLoU2? I don't. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of any of the above. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of Andromeda. It's very easy not buying a game.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 17:48:08 GMT
I know I wouldn't get the nex tgam eunless it continued the story anyway How many people do you think would buy the next game if it did continue the story? If they didn't like the first part, why would they return for the second? Would you go see a sequel to Ghostbusters (2016) after hating the first one? A sequel to Terminator: Dark Fate? A sequel to Birds of Prey? Why? The people that did care weren't enough to sustain them. Do you think a hypothetical TLoU3 would be as successful as TLoU/TLoU2? I don't. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of any of the above. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of Andromeda. It's very easy not buying a game. Differnce is though I would go for a round 2 o fAndromeda though that is my point. Als ohow many people would back them if wor5d got out they abandoned their stories half waythrough? I would almost certainly boycott byuing any future games from them and I doubt I'd be the only one.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2020 18:55:06 GMT
Despite the fact that I had A LOT of issues with Andromeda, I'd also lean toward an Andromeda sequel. If anyone is interested, I explained why in this post a while ago. While I applaud your work, I don't agree with it. Ultimately, a future Andromeda is not a crowdpleaser, in its basic inception. The original failed to garner anything past the very dedicated fans and some that fell for the marketing, who saw little support past release and a very underwhelming final product. Again, promising that the next game will be better, is a hollow promise. Maybe it will be, two years down the line and most people will buy it on sale, some time down the line. It is not a day 1 buy, it is not even a "week one" buy, or "month one" buy. And if it's none of these, why would EA care? Why invest in the game? Why support the game? If the franchise is not viable, why keep making it? And if it is a sequel to Andromeda, at least it can wrap up some threads for the fans, but at what cost does that have to come? And will the game even be made to be concluded in the second title, to afford the fanbase a decent closure, before the franchise gets put "on ice" again? This time permanently. I don't necessarily disagree with you (and we did have this discussion in your "final Shepard game" thread a while ago) but I interpreted the thread title as a question about what I as a gamer and ME fan would rather like to have, not so much as what might or might not be the best strategic move for BW to make as much money as possible with the next game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 19:52:42 GMT
I don't necessarily disagree with you (and we did have this discussion in your "final Shepard game" thread a while ago) but I interpreted the thread title as a question about what I as a gamer and ME fan would rather like to have, not so much as what might or might not be the best strategic move for BW to make as much money as possible with the next game. But I'm arguing that even if you get what you want in the short term, may be bad for what you want in the long term. It might actually be even more harmful than not getting it at all.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 31, 2020 19:55:16 GMT
I don't necessarily disagree with you (and we did have this discussion in your "final Shepard game" thread a while ago) but I interpreted the thread title as a question about what I as a gamer and ME fan would rather like to have, not so much as what might or might not be the best strategic move for BW to make as much money as possible with the next game. But I'm arguing that even if you get what you want in the short term, may be bad for what you want in the long term. It might actually be even more harmful than not getting it at all. Again, this is not how I interpreted the thread.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2020 19:57:56 GMT
How many people do you think would buy the next game if it did continue the story? If they didn't like the first part, why would they return for the second? Would you go see a sequel to Ghostbusters (2016) after hating the first one? A sequel to Terminator: Dark Fate? A sequel to Birds of Prey? Why? The people that did care weren't enough to sustain them. Do you think a hypothetical TLoU3 would be as successful as TLoU/TLoU2? I don't. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of any of the above. I wouldn't go for a round 2 of Andromeda. It's very easy not buying a game. Differnce is though I would go for a round 2 o fAndromeda though that is my point. Als ohow many people would back them if wor5d got out they abandoned their stories half waythrough? I would almost certainly boycott byuing any future games from them and I doubt I'd be the only one. Abandon what story? MEA was about finding a home for humanity, was it not? Wasn't a home found after getting Meridian?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 31, 2020 20:00:33 GMT
Differnce is though I would go for a round 2 o fAndromeda though that is my point You could probably go for 10 rounds of Andromeda. Als ohow many people would back them if wor5d got out they abandoned their stories half waythrough? Depends if it is a story worth telling, or if they are going to obsess over a bad idea. Take Riri Williams, a.k.a. Ironheart, Kamala Khan, a.k.a. Ms. Marvel or Suri, from Marvel comics. Nobody liked these characters, their books didn't sell, but Marvel kept making them. Marvel is nearly bankrupt, with Disney backing them up, currently. But they're not going to sell, no matter how hard Marvel is going to try. They failed, nobody wants them, it's over, yet Marvel insists. Even as a sunken cost fallacy, well, it's a sunken cost fallacy. It's time to move on. I would almost certainly boycott byuing any future games from them and I doubt I'd be the only one. That depends on how big you all are, but considering you weren't enough to keep it alive the first time, what chances are there you'd keep it alive the second time? Kamala Khan has been canceled 3-4 times so far. ME doesn't get 4 chances with EA. It's lucky it's getting a second chance at all. Nobody turns up for the second showing of what they perceive as a bad thing and regardless of how you feel about Andromeda, the public roasted it. It's going to fade into obscurity, like Wolfenstein: Youngblood and Rage 2. And I own both of these games.
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Post by wright1978 on Jul 31, 2020 20:36:33 GMT
I voted for a post Milky Way game, because that feels the best hope of reinvigorating the franchise after the failure that was Andromeda. Alternatively stick Andromeda universe in the oven let it bake and set a sequel long after Ryder.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 31, 2020 20:43:01 GMT
Differnce is though I would go for a round 2 o fAndromeda though that is my point. Als ohow many people would back them if wor5d got out they abandoned their stories half waythrough? I would almost certainly boycott byuing any future games from them and I doubt I'd be the only one. Abandon what story? MEA was about finding a home for humanity, was it not? Wasn't a home found after getting Meridian? There was moer to it than that.What about the Benefactor? What happened wit hthe Jardaan why did they disappear. questions like that to me need answers. The yweren't answered in MEA durin gthe story jus ttha tthey existed and were part of it.
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Post by themikefest on Jul 31, 2020 21:11:10 GMT
Abandon what story? MEA was about finding a home for humanity, was it not? Wasn't a home found after getting Meridian? There was moer to it than that.What about the Benefactor? What happened wit hthe Jardaan why did they disappear. questions like that to me need answers. The yweren't answered in MEA durin gthe story jus ttha tthey existed and were part of it. Ok. What I'd be more interested in is what the kett will do.
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