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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 25, 2020 6:43:22 GMT
They didn't just tease it, they wrote a whole damn novel about the Grey Wardens discovering that griffons still exist.
They keep putting everything decent in the novels, and we get stuck with crap like herding lost cattle.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Oct 25, 2020 11:20:37 GMT
They didn't just tease it, they wrote a whole damn novel about the Grey Wardens discovering that griffons still exist. They keep putting everything decent in the novels, and we get stuck with crap like herding lost cattle. I’d agree with that. Even as a simple side quest, finding/recovering gryffon’s eggs or something like that is far more interesting then saving a lost cattle. I do hope that they’d step up their game in regards of the quality of side quests. About gryffons as possible flying mounts, I think I’d be more interested in flying ships, for the simple fact that I fear that, as for normal mounts, they won’t have companions flying around with the PC but vanish. I do hope that they’d improve on the mount mechanic from DAI to include companions with their own mounts, but I’m doubtful.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 25, 2020 12:17:13 GMT
I think I’d be more interested in flying ships, for the simple fact that I fear that, as for normal mounts, they won’t have companions flying around with the PC but vanish. I do hope that they’d improve on the mount mechanic from DAI to include companions with their own mounts, but I’m doubtful. It was also odd that we could get perks connected with mounts that were really redundant unless we were going to engage in mounted combat. It was rather odd, as though perhaps they originally planned something more but then decided against it. The fact that our companions disappeared when we mounted up so conversation was not possible during our long ride across country, the Hissing Wastes spring to mind, means there was less incentive to mount up even if it did get you there quicker. Even more annoying were the times I did use the horse and on dismounting received the tail end of a conversation, as though it had still triggered during the ride but I couldn't hear it. Which made me even less likely to use the horse as it was difficult enough to get conversations going as it was. If they could fix those drawbacks I would enjoy having mounts again, whether on land or in the air. The trouble is they monitor these things covertly through your save games and the assumption might be that people didn't use mounts because they didn't like them, rather than because they hadn't got the mechanics right. I must admit to being a bit dubious about the flying ships though. I was surprised when they introduced flying ships in Last Flight. I was never aware that aravels actually do fly. I thought by land ships they meant vehicles that moved by sail power as though they were afloat, not airships. Okay so the ones in Last Flight were simply being towed by griffon and kept aloft by magic but they still seemed a bit lore breaking. Dorian mentioned something about flying cows over Minrathous, so it would seem the Magisters do know the requisite spells required to levitate larger objects. However, if that is the case and the Wardens specifically came up with this form of transport during the 4th Blight, why did no one come up with an alternative to griffon power? Even if the creatures towing them had to stay land bound, floating wagons would be so much more comfortable and adaptable to the landscape that wheeled ones. (Also the Dalish in the Exalted Plains could have floated their way out of the area). Then of course we also had the fact that both the Architect and Corypheus could fly, at least over short distances. How was this possible? The levitation spell is only meant to be used on inanimate objects. Still at least the concept art would seem to suggest that those flying aravels are likely due to the lack of a Veil or through actually being in the Fade, seeing as other objects are floating too. That was of course the reason why Corypheus was able to move mountains, although again I think that was too overpowered, plus when they fell back down again it should have rendered the surrounding area like a nuclear fall out site. Yet the only thing that really suffered was Solas' orb.
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Post by theascendent on Oct 25, 2020 13:04:18 GMT
The mount system for Inquisition was, mediocre to put it mildly, so trying to implement flying mounts would be an even greater challenge. Especially considering the rarity of animals that can fly and large enough to comfortably support a PC (height and weight varies from Dwarf, Elf, Human and Qunari) or magic capable of levitating objects large enough to house people and long enough to make the investment worthwhile.
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I am alive.
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Post by eternalambiguity on Oct 25, 2020 13:19:55 GMT
They didn't just tease it, they wrote a whole damn novel about the Grey Wardens discovering that griffons still exist. They keep putting everything decent in the novels, and we get stuck with crap like herding lost cattle. Yeah I've never read any of the books but I heard a little about it a while back.
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Post by telanadas on Oct 25, 2020 13:22:00 GMT
I am very curious to see how they might incorporate flying airships into the story, assuming its not part of a flashback to Arlathan days or something like that. What makes the rocks and airships float but not people specifically ? The codex from DAI that said the more organic a thing the more it defied laws of nature. If the lack of veil meant less gravity that actually sounds like a really cool gameplay feature though. Imagine boss battles right in the sky Based on the concept art it looks like it could be somewhere around the hinterlands area. If the veil were to come down during DA4 would there also be enough time to coordinate air travel and logistics while the threat of the blight and solas is around? I mean it sounds like it could work, if the veil was destroyed at the very start of the game. They could even make a flying airship the base camp which you could decorate and upgrade. Now I'm getting ahead of myself but it's cool to imagine the possibilities lol.
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Post by kalreegar on Oct 25, 2020 15:07:46 GMT
Flying ships, flying mountains, ancient legendary Gods that actually exist, magic that will alter the very fabric of the world... they are going a little bit too high fantasy imo.
High fantasy is very difficult to handle.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 25, 2020 15:25:10 GMT
Flying ships, flying mountains, ancient legendary Gods that actually exist, magic that will alter the very fabric of the world... they are going a little bit too high fantasy imo. High fantasy is very difficult to handle.
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Post by arvaarad on Oct 25, 2020 18:11:41 GMT
Flying has a tendency to make big maps feel small. I imagine it’s pretty difficult to make a landscape that’s compelling both to walk through and fly through, because you’re dealing with 2 very different travel speeds and 2 very different view angles. I’ve never encountered a game that does both well.
If flight appears in DA4, I hope it’s more focused on situations that require flight (e.g. traveling between Fade islands) vs. just shortening travel.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Oct 25, 2020 20:20:28 GMT
Considering all the concept art of sea monsters and Underwater shenanigans, not to mention the mostly coastal nations up north, I imagine that naval travel (and possibly combat) might be more pertinent than flying. Fighting pirates, Qunari dreadnoughts, diving for sunken treasures, battling the Lovecraftian Sea monsters Ghilan'nain created. More feasible than trying to somehow get our hands on the very few griffons in existence or taming a dragon to fly around on.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 25, 2020 20:29:46 GMT
Considering all the concept art of sea monsters and Underwater shenanigans, not to mention the mostly coastal nations up north, I imagine that naval travel (and possibly combat) might be more pertinent than flying. Fighting pirates, Qunari dreadnoughts, diving for sunken treasures, battling the Lovecraftian Sea monsters Ghilan'nain created. More feasible than trying to somehow get our hands on the very few griffons in existence or taming a dragon to fly around on. Which makes the "pirate crew" moniker a little too on the nose. I don't trust Bioware to do naval combat competently. They know shit all about it and it just looks like another, possible, mechanic that will be way too ambitious for the studio that will either see a poor implementation that won't add anything to the gameplay, may be DLC way down the line, or be a massive budget and time sinkhole that will get abandoned late into development.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Oct 25, 2020 20:35:53 GMT
Dorian mentioned something about flying cows over Minrathous, so it would seem the Magisters do know the requisite spells required to levitate larger objects. The flying cows comment might have just been a reference to Critical Role. There's an episode in the first campaign when the characters polymorph themselves into cows to set a trap for a monster and then cast Fly on themselves after the monster shows up and they chase it. There's also another Critical Role reference in MEA with a Krogan in the Flophouse on Elaaden being named Grog Strongjaw (Travis Willingham's character from campaign 1).
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Post by phoray on Oct 25, 2020 21:00:53 GMT
Flying has a tendency to make big maps feel small. I imagine it’s pretty difficult to make a landscape that’s compelling both to walk through and fly through, because you’re dealing with 2 very different travel speeds and 2 very different view angles. I’ve never encountered a game that does both well. If flight appears in DA4, I hope it’s more focused on situations that require flight (e.g. traveling between Fade islands) vs. just shortening travel. I agree with this, cuz I actually liked the little row boat mechanic to get to an island that had no bridge. Anthem was pretty as I flew past it at 60mph but it would just have been silly to walk through it when you could fly. Geralt's boat and horse mechanics made slowing down occasionally for some scenery enjoyment make sense. I think flying should be for specific scenes or very long distances.
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 25, 2020 21:37:05 GMT
Considering all the concept art of sea monsters and Underwater shenanigans, not to mention the mostly coastal nations up north, I imagine that naval travel (and possibly combat) might be more pertinent than flying. Fighting pirates, Qunari dreadnoughts, diving for sunken treasures, battling the Lovecraftian Sea monsters Ghilan'nain created. More feasible than trying to somehow get our hands on the very few griffons in existence or taming a dragon to fly around on. I've often thought that a ship will function as our 'base' in the next game. It would give us easy access to the coasts of a bunch of different countries, and it would be slightly more believable than the travel in Inquisition. Having Isabella in the concept art makes sense too.
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Post by telanadas on Oct 26, 2020 2:17:59 GMT
Which makes the "pirate crew" moniker a little too on the nose. I don't trust Bioware to do naval combat competently. They know shit all about it and it just looks like another, possible, mechanic that will be way too ambitious for the studio that will either see a poor implementation that won't add anything to the gameplay, may be DLC way down the line, or be a massive budget and time sinkhole that will get abandoned late into development. This is what I think too, honestly swimming and water mechanics in DA4 has me a lot more skeptical than flying airships. At least with airships and low gravity combat Bioware has a blueprint for that with MEA and Anthem. DA4 has already spent years in development and to throw in water gameplay, something BW have no experience in??? Just...why. Personally I think water gameplay is really hard to do well and unless it is the main focus of the gameplay or story it can become very annoying and cumbersome especially in RPGs. As a comparison, AC:Odyssey had a ship which you could upgrade and steer to different land masses, and you could also use it to fight other ships and go to certain spots in the ocean to dive/loot ruins. I think it worked for Odyssey because it fit the setting and overall vibe but I can't really imagine it working in a game like DA4. Unless they made DA4 a pirate themed game but tbh that would be so weird in the context of Solas and the blight. One way I think a flying airship could work in DA4 would be the ship acting as a fast travel medium. It could easily explain how the protagonist travels from Tevinter to Ferelden for example. At least this way fast travel would be believable and you could also imagine it being tied to the time constraints of the main story since it seems like it is a race against time to stop Solas/the blight.
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Post by colfoley on Oct 26, 2020 2:44:07 GMT
Who said anything about combat? I mean I guess I know we are just spit balling here but BioWare hasn't really done this kind of base combat before...so its unreasonable to assume they'll do it now. At the best if we get a 'flying base' or a 'pirate ship' (which I kind of doubt) we could have a situation where we get to defend it in a specialized story mission ala the XCOM base defense missions, Amaranthine, and when te Darkspawn hit the camp.
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Post by Noxluxe on Oct 26, 2020 15:35:21 GMT
Slavs are neighbors to Scandinavians, so a lot of our folkore and myths either overlap or have similar themes - and given that both Slavic and Scandinavian culture derives from Proto-Indo-European (the language itself - PIE - underpins languages of 2/3 of world's population) AND different influences have been cross-pollinating for millennia... I'm entirely not sure what exactly could be called "Western" and not? Eh. If there ever was such an overlap then it certainly isn't evident based on what we get from either culture in The Witcher, rendering the point moot. And saying that "western" is a useless generalization because cultures have always shared some level of mutual influence and have a few common roots is like saying that "African" is a silly word because all people originate from Africa. We all have at least a vague idea what it means because it's in common usage, and the fact that it references something so large and full of complexity that you can find all sorts of ways to pull it apart as a single concept if that's what you want to doesn't make it any less useful as a shorthand for something nobody would ever be able to talk about if we had to hash it out to the smallest cultural detail every single time. And great. Fucking airships. Just... why? And why make the damn griffons extinct in the first place if they were just going to be brought back?
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 26, 2020 15:56:39 GMT
Considering all the concept art of sea monsters and Underwater shenanigans, not to mention the mostly coastal nations up north, I imagine that naval travel (and possibly combat) might be more pertinent than flying. Fighting pirates, Qunari dreadnoughts, diving for sunken treasures, battling the Lovecraftian Sea monsters Ghilan'nain created. More feasible than trying to somehow get our hands on the very few griffons in existence or taming a dragon to fly around on. Which makes the "pirate crew" moniker a little too on the nose. I don't trust Bioware to do naval combat competently. They know shit all about it and it just looks like another, possible, mechanic that will be way too ambitious for the studio that will either see a poor implementation that won't add anything to the gameplay, may be DLC way down the line, or be a massive budget and time sinkhole that will get abandoned late into development. The Curse of Monkey Island pirate battles were good enough. You don't really need a naval sim down to the bore of the barrel. Sid Meier's Pirates also worked well.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 26, 2020 16:11:17 GMT
The Curse of Monkey Island pirate battles were good enough. You don't really need a naval sim down to the bore of the barrel. Sid Meier's Pirates also worked well. Considering the "realism" angle, modern AAA expectations and how other studios have done it, I doubt it. While I would also welcome it, I don't think insult arm wrestling will make a triumphant return, either. The implementation, or if it is even being worked on to begin with, will have to remain pure speculation for now. Or until Jason Schreier makes another article to prove otherwise.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 26, 2020 16:38:52 GMT
The Curse of Monkey Island pirate battles were good enough. You don't really need a naval sim down to the bore of the barrel. Sid Meier's Pirates also worked well. Considering the "realism" angle, modern AAA expectations and how other studios have done it, I doubt it. While I would also welcome it, I don't think insult arm wrestling will make a triumphant return, either. The implementation, or if it is even being worked on to begin with, will have to remain pure speculation for now. Or until Jason Schreier makes another article to prove otherwise. AC Black Flag might be the milestone setter (never played it) but for the purpose of an RPG a combat instance with ship map would do just fine, imo. DoS2 did it too
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
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Post by theascendent on Oct 26, 2020 17:00:49 GMT
Pillars of Eternity 2 Deadfire was also an excellent example of a nautical RPG.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 26, 2020 18:28:27 GMT
AC Black Flag might be the milestone setter (never played it) but for the purpose of an RPG a combat instance with ship map would do just fine, imo. DoS2 did it too Well, DivOS is an "isometric", which I am sure someone will correct me into saying it's not, turn based RPG. Which Dragon Age could be played as, in Origins, roughly, although it was more RTwP, but as of DA2, it no longer is and has been moving more to the action side ever since. What fits one genre, doesn't fit every genre, nor does it necessarily fit the expectations/demands of the audience it is trying to garner. If a triple A game comes out today, touting "naval combat", I wouldn't expect fighting mooks on a ship's deck. I mean, when I'd be told of "naval combat", I'd think ship to ship action combat and that would naturally be my first thought. At least, that's the kind of expectation I would have from the game. Maybe I'm wrong and it's wrong of me to do so, but that is it.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 26, 2020 20:30:55 GMT
AC Black Flag might be the milestone setter (never played it) but for the purpose of an RPG a combat instance with ship map would do just fine, imo. DoS2 did it too Well, DivOS is an "isometric", which I am sure someone will correct me into saying it's not, turn based RPG. Which Dragon Age could be played as, in Origins, roughly, although it was more RTwP, but as of DA2, it no longer is and has been moving more to the action side ever since. What fits one genre, doesn't fit every genre, nor does it necessarily fit the expectations/demands of the audience it is trying to garner. If a triple A game comes out today, touting "naval combat", I wouldn't expect fighting mooks on a ship's deck. I mean, when I'd be told of "naval combat", I'd think ship to ship action combat and that would naturally be my first thought. At least, that's the kind of expectation I would have from the game. Maybe I'm wrong and it's wrong of me to do so, but that is it. What kind of sim can you expect from an RPG though? And shooting down a HP bar isn't so hot in my eyes.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Oct 26, 2020 20:47:35 GMT
What kind of sim can you expect from an RPG though? A 3rd person, over the shoulder perspective action RPG? Some arcade like naval action, like in the AssCreed games. And shooting down a HP bar isn't so hot in my eyes. I mean ... that's basically every enemy in every video game ever. I don't know what to tell you.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 27, 2020 1:34:56 GMT
What kind of sim can you expect from an RPG though? A 3rd person, over the shoulder perspective action RPG? Some arcade like naval action, like in the AssCreed games. And shooting down a HP bar isn't so hot in my eyes. I mean ... that's basically every enemy in every video game ever. I don't know what to tell you. Naval Action had a pretty good damage model. You could cripple a ship in various ways. That's more simish than HP bars but I don't expect such complexity in RPGs. Sure, there can be hybrid approaches and genre crossover, but how far in depth is that possible? Star Citizen was praised to be all and look how it struggles.
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