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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 22:53:47 GMT
why the First Warden be so incompetent lol I like the First Warden because to a point he's rightfully doubtful of Rook and not just immediately like "ok I believe you", unfortunately he's not believing Rook about something there is very obvious evidence for and therefore just comes off incompetent and unnecessarily obstructive to be "proven wrong" by Rook and company. And I guess blight magic. The hof is spinning in their grave
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:01:22 GMT
I think the answer was Blight Magic? bro why do these people keep making the Wardens so inept when they aren't lmao . In Inquisition they were pretty bad too The Wardens never beat a Blight on their own. Every Blight were multiple long pitched battles in multiple countries and required the standing armies of multiple countries to fight back Is it not incompetence that Weishaupt was lost. In no history of this world did an elven god, with all their strategic wits about them and all their magically enhanced darkspawn bring the entire army to their front gate, not attacking any other country along the way.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Nov 17, 2024 23:01:27 GMT
Notice how in almost every cutscene your character is involved in you are suddenly unarmed, passive and powerless to what is happening around you.....
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GoldenGail3
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:05:14 GMT
bro why do these people keep making the Wardens so inept when they aren't lmao . In Inquisition they were pretty bad too The Wardens never beat a Blight on their own. Every Blight were multiple long pitched battles in multiple countries and required the standing armies of multiple countries to fight back Is it not incompetence that Weishaupt was lost. In no history of this world did an elven god, with all their strategic wits about them and all their magically enhanced darkspawn bring the entire army to their front gate, not attacking any other country along the way. Okay..
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:07:27 GMT
The Wardens never beat a Blight on their own. Every Blight were multiple long pitched battles in multiple countries and required the standing armies of multiple countries to fight back Is it not incompetence that Weishaupt was lost. In no history of this world did an elven god, with all their strategic wits about them and all their magically enhanced darkspawn bring the entire army to their front gate, not attacking any other country along the way. Okay.. Can you elaborate? because an elven god with enhanced self replicating darkspawn did not show up in Fereldan.
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:11:10 GMT
Looks at Dragon Age Origins Okay.. Can you elaborate? because an elven god with enhanced self replicating darkspawn did not show up in Fereldan.
You were wrong about this because the Filth Blight was defeated in about a year and required no outside intervention to defeat the arch demon - not that Logian would let the Oraslians in anyways.
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:13:48 GMT
You were wrong about this because the Filth Blight was defeated in about a year and required no outside intervention to defeat the arch demon - not that Logian would let the Oraslians in anyways. Sigh. I was mostly thinking of the first four blights, but sure, the one exception to the rule, the 5th Blight, only required ONE entire country's worth of standing army. Weishaupt had 1000 Wardens. No other support from elsewhere. In what is presented as a sudden and unexpected attack. We can agree that the First Warden had his hand in the sand, because "magic" and didn't prepare, but I'm not going to agree that all of the Wardens are incompetent when this is not what their order was built for. |
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:16:25 GMT
But yeah, they obviously didn't defeat the fifth blight alone. The Dark spawn are many, and they fewer, looking at the Deep Roads and how they overran them for the most part. If cities similar to Ozammar can't hold them off then the surface dwellers will probably have a similar enough problem with dealing with them - especially during a Blight.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:18:44 GMT
I have a different question about the wardens... When did they become the night's watch knock off? You might say "always has been" but at least in Origin there was a very big difference - they didn't take anyone for the wardens, only chose the best people. In this game I heard in several places they took everybody they could find
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:20:56 GMT
You were wrong about this because the Filth Blight was defeated in about a year and required no outside intervention to defeat the arch demon - not that Logian would let the Oraslians in anyways. Sigh. I was mostly thinking of the first four blights, but sure, the one exception to the rule, the 5th Blight, only required ONE entire country's worth of standing army. Weishaupt had 1000 Wardens. No other support from elsewhere. In what is presented as a sudden and unexpected attack. We can agree that the First Warden had his hand in the sand, because "magic" and didn't prepare, but I'm not going to agree that all of the Wardens are incompetent when this is not what their order was built for. they obviously didn't recruit their best
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:23:15 GMT
they obviously didn't recruit their best Of all the things to hate about the game. I hate so much. But I completely accept what happened at Weishaupt. The Warden storyline was, for the most part, entirely coherent. |
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:25:16 GMT
they obviously didn't recruit their best Of all the things to hate about the game. I hate so much. But I completely accept what happened at Weishaupt. The Warden storyline was, for the most part, entirely coherent. in every new game I see from the dragon age - besides for Dragon Age 2 and Origins, they treat the Wardens worse and worse. kinda getting tired of it lol..
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:26:13 GMT
only chose the best people What? I think your memory of Origins is incorrect. They recruited anyone that had skil. They recruited a friendly thief. Duncan was a thief himself. Loghain can be recruited. would a bunch of theives actually be good at defending a fortress? or would they have to be trained? My understanding of Wardens, as depicted by multiple chunks of media, is that they were sent out in small groups, at most a regiment, to be doing targeted clear outs of a specific infestation. They haven't run a war themselves since the 4th Blight and all of those Wardens are long dead. |
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:30:19 GMT
only chose the best people What? I think your memory of Origins is incorrect. They recruited anyone that had skil. They recruited a friendly thief. Duncan was a thief himself. Loghain can be recruited. would a bunch of theives actually be good at defending a fortress? or would they have to be trained? My understanding of Wardens, as depicted by multiple chunks of media, is that they were sent out in small groups, at most a regiment, to be doing targeted clear outs of a specific infestation. They haven't run a war themselves since the 4th Blight and all of those Wardens are long dead. That's not the same as recruiting anyone. There are specific instances Duncan even refuse to take people (like your cousin if you are a city elf and get him in trouble) and he also explains later why - he only takes people he assumes will pass the joining. That's not the impression of the wardens I get here, I'm pretty sure at some point you hear they take whoever they can get. The night's watch in GOT take literally whoever they can get, including rapists and traitors and whatever , no matter if they have talent or not. That's my impression of wardens in this game |
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Post by rocketpineapple on Nov 17, 2024 23:33:13 GMT
It's like they decided "oh, someone has to be sceptical/obstructive" then made that person the leader of the faction with the least reason to be sceptical...
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:34:38 GMT
he only takes people he assumes will pass the joining. All Davreth did was successfully pickpocket Duncan. What about that says, "I'll survive drinking Darkspawn" exactly? |
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Post by emissaryoflies on Nov 17, 2024 23:35:14 GMT
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:38:31 GMT
he only takes people he assumes will pass the joining. All Davreth did was successfully pickpocket Duncan. What about that says, "I'll survive drinking Darkspawn" exactly? Dunno, but that was the explanation that was given ingame. Grey wardens in DAO are not some driffters, they are supposed to be an elite force that is comprised of the best of the best. The Origin system also hammers it home. In each one of them Duncan is coming searching for the best candidate and takes the player after the player proves themselves in some way. It's not some secret, that's the entire ethos of gray wardens in Origins |
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Post by rocketpineapple on Nov 17, 2024 23:39:45 GMT
What? I think your memory of Origins is incorrect. They recruited anyone that had skil. They recruited a friendly thief. Duncan was a thief himself. Loghain can be recruited. would a bunch of theives actually be good at defending a fortress? or would they have to be trained? My understanding of Wardens, as depicted by multiple chunks of media, is that they were sent out in small groups, at most a regiment, to be doing targeted clear outs of a specific infestation. They haven't run a war themselves since the 4th Blight and all of those Wardens are long dead. That's not the same as recruiting anyone. There are specific instances Duncan even refuse to take people (like your cousin if you are a city elf and get him in trouble) and he also explains later why - he only takes people he assumes will pass the joining. That's not the impression of the wardens I get here, I'm pretty sure at some point you hear they take whoever they can get. The night's watch in GOT take literally whoever they can get, including rapists and traitors and whatever , no matter if they have talent or not. That's my impression of wardens in this game iirc they can't afford to be picky in blights and will take people willing to go fight darkspawn instead of go to jail (see: "Blackwall") but that was by Inquisition's writing, I'd have to replay Origins. |
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:40:59 GMT
All Davreth did was successfully pickpocket Duncan. What about that says, "I'll survive drinking Darkspawn" exactly? Dunno, but that was the explanation that was given ingame. Grey wardens in DAO are not some driffters, they are supposed to be an elite force that is comprised of the best of the best. The Origin system also hammers it home. In each one of them Duncan is coming searching for the best candidate and takes the player after the player proves themselves in some way. It's not some secret, that's the entire ethos of gray wardens in Origins He didn't even successfully do it.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:41:19 GMT
I just finished the joining yesterday as a human noble... The only inconsistent thing about it I could find is indeed Davoth and it still might not exactly be inconsistent but some hunch Duncan had
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:43:33 GMT
Also, think about it, what is the right of conscription and why it exists?
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Post by phoray on Nov 17, 2024 23:47:12 GMT
I just finished the joining yesterday as a human noble... The only inconsistent thing about it I could find is indeed Davoth and it still might not exactly be inconsistent but some hunch Duncan had I never argued it was inconsistent, I was actually arguing against the concept that "the Wardens only conscript the best". In fact, this idealized version of the Wardens we're presented with in DAV is, to me, actually lore inconsistent. The wardens are, as a whole, morally bankrupt. They are a cult against the Blight. I think the only reason Davrin, Evka, and Antoine are the way they are are due to their "special roles" within the Wardens being monster hunters, griffon body guards, and research investigators. They are not heroes in the traditional sense.
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Post by GoldenGail3 on Nov 17, 2024 23:50:52 GMT
only chose the best people What? I think your memory of Origins is incorrect. They recruited anyone that had skil. They recruited a friendly thief. Duncan was a thief himself. Loghain can be recruited. would a bunch of theives actually be good at defending a fortress? or would they have to be trained? My understanding of Wardens, as depicted by multiple chunks of media, is that they were sent out in small groups, at most a regiment, to be doing targeted clear outs of a specific infestation. They haven't run a war themselves since the 4th Blight and all of those Wardens are long dead. Loghian is a war veteran though.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 17, 2024 23:51:43 GMT
I just finished the joining yesterday as a human noble... The only inconsistent thing about it I could find is indeed Davoth and it still might not exactly be inconsistent but some hunch Duncan had I never argued it was inconsistent, I was actually arguing against the concept that "the Wardens only conscript the best". In fact, this idealized version of the Wardens we're presented with in DAV is, to me, actually lore inconsistent. The wardens are, as a whole, morally bankrupt. They are a cult against the Blight. I think the only reason Davrin, Evka, and Antoine are the way they are are due to their "special roles" within the Wardens being monster hunters, griffon body guards, and research investigators. They are not heroes in the traditional sense. I don't know much about Dragon Age lore beyond the games, and I admit I'm heavily biased towards Origins even in what I do know, so if there are some details in later games that contradict what is in Origins I might have missed them. But as per Origins, regardless of how moral the grey wardens as a faction are (even in origins not much), I'm just saying they won't take anyone, for many reasons but it seems like mainly because they are looking for folks who can survive the joining and don't need to be trained from scratch. That was my impression of them in Origins and until Veilguard I didn't see anything to convince me otherwise |
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